Faith is Born from Fear

[Quantum Windbag]

No. Its a waste of time.

Here a simple experiment to test for prayer. Find two people with radical appendicitis. Person A, apply the same steps as were applied before the mid 1800's (i.e., pray over them, light incense, tell them to “believe”, rattle bones, whatever). Person B -- perform an appendectomy using modern surgical techniques without any prayer. Who will survive, who will die -- consistently? Then ask yourself why is it that when using prayer (or hoping for miracles) they've always died, and not until man learned the science of medicine did people start to survive (i.e., only until man learned how to remedy appendicitis, did "god suddenly have the power to perform this miracle")? It's pretty self-evident.

Perhaps you could pray for the ability to present a rational argument?

Doing something that produces proven positive benefits is a waste of time?

Perhaps you could pull your head out of your ass and look at the evidence.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How's that flat earth and talking snakes thing working out for ya'?

I don't recall saying the Earth is flat, or that snakes talk, are you arguing with the voices in your head again?

 

[Hollie]

No. Its a waste of time.

Here a simple experiment to test for prayer. Find two people with radical appendicitis. Person A, apply the same steps as were applied before the mid 1800's (i.e., pray over them, light incense, tell them to “believe”, rattle bones, whatever). Person B -- perform an appendectomy using modern surgical techniques without any prayer. Who will survive, who will die -- consistently? Then ask yourself why is it that when using prayer (or hoping for miracles) they've always died, and not until man learned the science of medicine did people start to survive (i.e., only until man learned how to remedy appendicitis, did "god suddenly have the power to perform this miracle")? It's pretty self-evident.

Perhaps you could pray for the ability to present a rational argument?

Doing something that produces proven positive benefits is a waste of time?

Perhaps you could pull your head out of your ass and look at the evidence.

I'll be glad to look at the evidence.

Present the evidence that your gawds (or anyone else's gawds), have ever responded to prayers. Remember, make sure your evidence is rational and verifiable. There's a good fellow.

 

[Hollie]

How's that flat earth and talking snakes thing working out for ya'?

I don't recall saying the Earth is flat, or that snakes talk, are you arguing with the voices in your head again?

The gawds have answered my prayers.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'll be glad to look at the evidence.

Present the evidence that your gawds (or anyone else's gawds), have ever responded to prayers. Remember, make sure your evidence is rational and verifiable. There's a good fellow.

I didn't say anything about gods, you need to stop listening to those voices.

 

[PostmodernProph]

All those things are born in response to fear. Faith is just a more positive reaction but it is still a reaction. The first stage of grief of denial and faith is a denial of the inevitable truth. Nothing lasts forever. There is no such thing as eternal life.

Prove the bolded.

Nothing lives forever.

gosh, what great proof!......

The fact that nothing lives forever isn't proof? I think that is great fucking proof. It's the best proof I got.

well, its true that its the best you've got.....but unfortunately you've forgotten that its the thing you were supposed to prove, not the proof.......

 

[Casjah]

lol Who pulled your tampon string?

Fear is a basic emotion. It's experienced by the most primitive part of the brain. The fear animals experience when running from a predator isn't so different from the fear humans experience.

OMG, you insulted me like a 5 year old bully, I don't know what to do other than laugh.

How do you know that the supposed fear you say animals experience is similar to what humans feel? Do you have a magical ability to read the minds of animals and humans?

You get what you put out.. when your posts resemble a toddler's temper tantrum, you can expect people to respond appropriately. However, I am more than happy to debate like an adult if you can manage.

Science has proven that all vertebrates have very similar, if not identical, neurotransmitters and primitive structures within the brain which respond to stimuli producing fear. There is no magic involved, I promise. I leave that up to the uber religious and small children who still leave cookies out for Santa on Christmas Eve.

 

[PratchettFan]

prayer gives us the strength to put up with the fools we argue with.......

Strength? Oh please. You do this for fun, not penance.

 

[PratchettFan]

In order for that statement to work you would first have to prove that I stated at some point that I have faith.

No problem. I quote you directly, "There is no such thing as eternal life." That is a statement of pure, unadulterated faith. It is based upon nothing but belief. So it would appear my statement works.

I warned him that someone would catch that.

Positive claims are the result of faith. I made a negative claim. I don't believe there is an afterlife. I have every reason not to so I behave as if there isn't one. Just like you and everyone else behaves as if there are no fairies, hobgoblins, or trolls, because you have no reason to think that they exist.

And now you are just kidding yourself. Your unsupported belief isn't faith because it is negative but their unsupported belief is faith because it is positive? If you actually want to be free of faith, free of belief, then you must begin by recognizing it in yourself. Rationalizing it does you no good at all.

 

[PostmodernProph]

prayer gives us the strength to put up with the fools we argue with.......

Strength? Oh please. You do this for fun, not penance.

.....snap!......

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You get what you put out.. when your posts resemble a toddler's temper tantrum, you can expect people to respond appropriately. However, I am more than happy to debate like an adult if you can manage.

Science has proven that all vertebrates have very similar, if not identical, neurotransmitters and primitive structures within the brain which respond to stimuli producing fear. There is no magic involved, I promise. I leave that up to the uber religious and small children who still leave cookies out for Santa on Christmas Eve.

When I talk to idiots I tend to use words idiots understand, when I talk to intelligent people I tend to use words you would have to look up. In other words, I tailor my response to the audience. If you were actually responding to my posts you would be able to show me that I never use language and rhetoric that is catered to people who can think.

But thanks for proving how little thought you put into anything.

Care to show me were science has proven that all animals react identically to everything? The fact that the structure of brain cells is similar, and that the chemicals inside those brains are the same, is not proof that every single life form on the planet is identical.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I can help you. Look at the Religion of Liberalism's dogma on equality. This lead to the Killing Fields in Cambodia, the Cultural Revolution in China and The Gulag Archipelago in the Soviet Union. It takes a milder form here in the US - liberals aren't sending Americans to death camps yet but they are stripping them of their human rights and all in the service of their dogma on the issue of equality.

Still pushing your fictitious "Religion of Liberalism" BS without a single shred of evidence to support it?

 

[PratchettFan]

prayer gives us the strength to put up with the fools we argue with.......

Strength? Oh please. You do this for fun, not penance.

.....snap!......

Yeah. I picked up on it with the follow up posts. I get satire, even if I'm slow.

 

[koshergrl]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Really?

Which Christians said this? Please cite and link.

Seriously? I can think of quite a few Christians that have said the only reason atheists don't believe is because we just want to sin. Ray Comfort has said it, Christians on this forum have said it. It's among the most common arguments.

Then you'll be able to come up with a whole grocery list of quotes and links.

I don't know who Ray Comfort is.

 

[sealybobo]

Why would Quantum Douchbag deny that all animals have a healthy fear of the unknown? Makes me not want to talk to her if she's even going to deny the obvious.

Maybe admitting this is true would be admitting that faith too is born from fear? So she's going to argue anything I say. Even if I said water is wet she'd want me to prove it.

Because I base my life on actual facts, not delusions and platitudes?

How's that flat earth and talking snakes thing working out for ya'?

Thank God (Pun Intended) that today no one takes these people seriously. At least today you can't say you believe snakes talked, people lived to be 500 or 800, the Noah story is real, parting of the red seas, burning bushes, virgin births....

Actually, Chistians are funny about this. They understand all the other stories are just stories and not factual events, but ask them if Jesus rose from the dead and they believe that.

But how much have they thought about it since they were brainwashed as kids? Ask them if Mary was a virgin, he performed miracles, rose from the dead. Ask them enough questions and they'll admit that the Jesus stories are probably all made up too. But they don't even care because they like the message. And it's better to be safe than sorry.

I say a lie is a lie no matter how much I want it to be true and I'd rather know the truth.

 

[sealybobo]

Your hypothesizing is flawed and naive. You don't understand that prayer is an act of want, need and exchanging a behavior in hope of a future reward. In short, it's influence peddling.

You know this because you often pray, right?

No. Its a waste of time.

Here a simple experiment to test for prayer. Find two people with radical appendicitis. Person A, apply the same steps as were applied before the mid 1800's (i.e., pray over them, light incense, tell them to “believe”, rattle bones, whatever). Person B -- perform an appendectomy using modern surgical techniques without any prayer. Who will survive, who will die -- consistently? Then ask yourself why is it that when using prayer (or hoping for miracles) they've always died, and not until man learned the science of medicine did people start to survive (i.e., only until man learned how to remedy appendicitis, did "god suddenly have the power to perform this miracle")? It's pretty self-evident.

Perhaps you could pray for the ability to present a rational argument?

They'll say they prayed for the scientists to come up with the cure.

They don't mind science curing them. Just don't tell them their god(s) are not real.

 

[sealybobo]

In order for that statement to work you would first have to prove that I stated at some point that I have faith.

No problem. I quote you directly, "There is no such thing as eternal life." That is a statement of pure, unadulterated faith. It is based upon nothing but belief. So it would appear my statement works.

I warned him that someone would catch that.

Positive claims are the result of faith. I made a negative claim. I don't believe there is an afterlife. I have every reason not to so I behave as if there isn't one. Just like you and everyone else behaves as if there are no fairies, hobgoblins, or trolls, because you have no reason to think that they exist.

And now you are just kidding yourself. Your unsupported belief isn't faith because it is negative but their unsupported belief is faith because it is positive? If you actually want to be free of faith, free of belief, then you must begin by recognizing it in yourself. Rationalizing it does you no good at all.

If you people just told us that you believe in god do you think any of us atheists would care?

But we see you trying to put god or creationism back into school and you make us hate you. Your church argues against birth control so of course we hate you. Your churches don't understand the Constitution so they are anti gay marriage so of course we hate you.

The GOP used religion to con dumb middle class and poor voters into voting GOP so we hate religions. Proof god is an ignorant notion especially the people who take the bible or koran literally.

They also use religion to con us into war with Muslims.

Your religion bans stem cell research so we hate you when our love ones die of Alzheimers or Cancer, you fuckers.

We hate being told if we don't believe your bullshit we will go to hell. That is as offensive as the Muslims saying that all non believers should be put to death. WORSE because you say we'll burn in hell for eternity. My mom, my friends, me? I take offense. So I'm going to convince your kids that god is not real. The next generation needs to wake up. God has done a horrible job running the planet.

 

[PratchettFan]

In order for that statement to work you would first have to prove that I stated at some point that I have faith.

No problem. I quote you directly, "There is no such thing as eternal life." That is a statement of pure, unadulterated faith. It is based upon nothing but belief. So it would appear my statement works.

I warned him that someone would catch that.

Positive claims are the result of faith. I made a negative claim. I don't believe there is an afterlife. I have every reason not to so I behave as if there isn't one. Just like you and everyone else behaves as if there are no fairies, hobgoblins, or trolls, because you have no reason to think that they exist.

And now you are just kidding yourself. Your unsupported belief isn't faith because it is negative but their unsupported belief is faith because it is positive? If you actually want to be free of faith, free of belief, then you must begin by recognizing it in yourself. Rationalizing it does you no good at all.

If you people just told us that you believe in god do you think any of us atheists would care?

But we see you trying to put god or creationism back into school and you make us hate you. Your church argues against birth control so of course we hate you. Your churches don't understand the Constitution so they are anti gay marriage so of course we hate you.

The GOP used religion to con dumb middle class and poor voters into voting GOP so we hate religions. Proof god is an ignorant notion especially the people who take the bible or koran literally.

They also use religion to con us into war with Muslims.

Your religion bans stem cell research so we hate you when our love ones die of Alzheimers or Cancer, you fuckers.

We hate being told if we don't believe your bullshit we will go to hell. That is as offensive as the Muslims saying that all non believers should be put to death. WORSE because you say we'll burn in hell for eternity. My mom, my friends, me? I take offense. So I'm going to convince your kids that god is not real. The next generation needs to wake up. God has done a horrible job running the planet.

Yes. I do believe you would care. I don't think any of those things have anything at all to do with why you hate Christians.

 

[sealybobo]

In order for that statement to work you would first have to prove that I stated at some point that I have faith.

No problem. I quote you directly, "There is no such thing as eternal life." That is a statement of pure, unadulterated faith. It is based upon nothing but belief. So it would appear my statement works.

I warned him that someone would catch that.

Positive claims are the result of faith. I made a negative claim. I don't believe there is an afterlife. I have every reason not to so I behave as if there isn't one. Just like you and everyone else behaves as if there are no fairies, hobgoblins, or trolls, because you have no reason to think that they exist.

And now you are just kidding yourself. Your unsupported belief isn't faith because it is negative but their unsupported belief is faith because it is positive? If you actually want to be free of faith, free of belief, then you must begin by recognizing it in yourself. Rationalizing it does you no good at all.

If you people just told us that you believe in god do you think any of us atheists would care?

But we see you trying to put god or creationism back into school and you make us hate you. Your church argues against birth control so of course we hate you. Your churches don't understand the Constitution so they are anti gay marriage so of course we hate you.

The GOP used religion to con dumb middle class and poor voters into voting GOP so we hate religions. Proof god is an ignorant notion especially the people who take the bible or koran literally.

They also use religion to con us into war with Muslims.

Your religion bans stem cell research so we hate you when our love ones die of Alzheimers or Cancer, you fuckers.

We hate being told if we don't believe your bullshit we will go to hell. That is as offensive as the Muslims saying that all non believers should be put to death. WORSE because you say we'll burn in hell for eternity. My mom, my friends, me? I take offense. So I'm going to convince your kids that god is not real. The next generation needs to wake up. God has done a horrible job running the planet.

Yes. I do believe you would care. I don't think any of those things have anything at all to do with why you hate Christians.

Do Jews and Muslims hate you? I don't hate you any more than they do. I just don't believe your stories any more than they do.

Generic god doesn't scare me. Those people at least don't try to tell me I'm going to hell and they don't pretend that he came and talked to their ancestors 2014 years ago. So they aren't liars like you. Liars or the fools that believe the liars.

I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. And I have to live with you assholes. If you are a representative of this god, your god sucks. I reject you, not your god. I just don't believe your god exists. He should ask you to do a better job spreading the word. You are a pathetic christian. One of the reasons I woke up from the brainwashing. I noticed like you I was a brainwashed Stepford Wife.

 

[PratchettFan]

In order for that statement to work you would first have to prove that I stated at some point that I have faith.

No problem. I quote you directly, "There is no such thing as eternal life." That is a statement of pure, unadulterated faith. It is based upon nothing but belief. So it would appear my statement works.

I warned him that someone would catch that.

Positive claims are the result of faith. I made a negative claim. I don't believe there is an afterlife. I have every reason not to so I behave as if there isn't one. Just like you and everyone else behaves as if there are no fairies, hobgoblins, or trolls, because you have no reason to think that they exist.

And now you are just kidding yourself. Your unsupported belief isn't faith because it is negative but their unsupported belief is faith because it is positive? If you actually want to be free of faith, free of belief, then you must begin by recognizing it in yourself. Rationalizing it does you no good at all.

If you people just told us that you believe in god do you think any of us atheists would care?

But we see you trying to put god or creationism back into school and you make us hate you. Your church argues against birth control so of course we hate you. Your churches don't understand the Constitution so they are anti gay marriage so of course we hate you.

The GOP used religion to con dumb middle class and poor voters into voting GOP so we hate religions. Proof god is an ignorant notion especially the people who take the bible or koran literally.

They also use religion to con us into war with Muslims.

Your religion bans stem cell research so we hate you when our love ones die of Alzheimers or Cancer, you fuckers.

We hate being told if we don't believe your bullshit we will go to hell. That is as offensive as the Muslims saying that all non believers should be put to death. WORSE because you say we'll burn in hell for eternity. My mom, my friends, me? I take offense. So I'm going to convince your kids that god is not real. The next generation needs to wake up. God has done a horrible job running the planet.

Yes. I do believe you would care. I don't think any of those things have anything at all to do with why you hate Christians.

Do Jews and Muslims hate you? I don't hate you any more than they do. I just don't believe your stories any more than they do.

Generic god doesn't scare me. Those people at least don't try to tell me I'm going to hell and they don't pretend that he came and talked to their ancestors 2014 years ago. So they aren't liars like you. Liars or the fools that believe the liars.

I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. And I have to live with you assholes. If you are a representative of this god, your god sucks. I reject you, not your god. I just don't believe your god exists. He should ask you to do a better job spreading the word. You are a pathetic christian. One of the reasons I woke up from the brainwashing. I noticed like you I was a brainwashed Stepford Wife.

I'm not a Christian and I said you hate Christians. In fact, you said you hate Christians. You also assume everyone is a Christian and that all Christians think exactly the same way. Based upon your posts, I have concluded that you are still a Christian but God didn't meet your expectations, so you're pissed off. It takes a heck of a lot of faith to be as angry with God as you are.