Faith is Born from Fear

[AtheistBuddah]

I have found truth=God and God says we believers are to share the good news about God's love, I take no pleasure seeing you played for a fool used as satan tool puppet on the road to hell.

So talking with us here about hell and satan and how if we don't believe what you believe we'll be sent to a place of eternal torture and pain and sadness is your idea of sharing the news about God's love is it?

You might wanna take a commercial psychology course somewhere. Your 'sales pitch' needs work.

The" GOOD NEWS" is that Jesus gave his blood and life on the cross to pay your sin debt and buy you a pardon to keep you out of hell but you must chose to accept His love mercy forgiveness or pay your own sin debt=death and hell.

And miss the big bbq at the Lake of Fire Café???? I don't think so. All the best people will be there.

If they were truly the best people, they wouldn't be.

Oh, yes they would. Anyone who would choose to spend eternity with a being who created hell would not qualify as the best.

Le'ts say that I'm 100% (minus .000 ... 01%) certain there's no gods as you think of them. So while I"m living life to the fullest doing good works just to be good for the helluvit (while hoping to lead by example) you're going through your life trying to instill fear into people threatening them with eternal torture and pain and misery...So they don't get that after they die? But you'll give them the emotional equivilent of hell while they're still alive never really making that connection huh?

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

Again. Pascal's Wager is shit logic and I'm going to keep saying it until you Christians understand it. It's a cowardly logic and it's just flawed at its very core.

 

[Darkwind]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Poorly thought out.

You say that we don't examine ourselves and ask what if there is no God. The truth is, we have and have reached the logical conclusion that if there is no God, then we're no worse off than you are. However, if God existence is proven out after the death of the physical body, then is sucks to be you.

In addition. What right do you have to even question My beliefs?

Firstly: See my previous statements on Pascal's Wager why there is nothing logical about it.
Second: What makes you think your beliefs are about questioning.? Nothing is above scrutiny not even your God.

I could care less about your take on Pascal's Wager. The logic of it cannot be refuted. The flaw then must be with you.

When it comes to anyone other than yourself, to question motives is nothing more than to fulfill a fear inside yourself.

I don't care about you not believing. I don't even care that you find some offense at others who do believe.

I only care when you try to take away My natural right to have faith, and to have that faith in the way I see fit.

I also don't get offended by your non-belief, nor do I promote or advocate that your non-belief be removed from the public square.

YOUR kind, however; cannot say the same.

Now, have a nice day.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

 

[sealybobo]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

I LOVE others enough to give them the TRUTH if I did not care about others I would use the time for playing tennis!

Hate to use dead children for an analogy, but the Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 kids not too long ago claimed she did it because she "loved" them and, ""It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."[59] She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.[60]"
Andrea Yates - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

In fairness to religion, Yates probably would've created some other delusion even without religion and the result probably would've been the same. I mean there are children out there stabbing their parents in the name of Slenderman so truthfully crazy people will always do crazy things for crazy reasons. Religion isn't entirely to blame for the Yates thing.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

if you morons had a brain, you would have fear in your hearts for the evil in men's hearts has control of this dying world. you better come to some for of common sense and work together to defend all of yourselves from this evil in some men, because it's gonna be the end of mankind if you don't. look around you. do you see things beside video games, violent tv and games , distractionary violent sports, pornographic music making the world better? better really take a hard look at which way you think we are going or how it's gonna end up, and if you think you can sit it out looking out for yourselves you better get a really big and well supplied rock to hide under.

What I'm not going to just sit around and accept is your doom and gloom rhetoric. The world isn't perfect and there are people out there that could potentially harm it a great deal but on the whole, the developed world is much more moral and much better than it was in the day when religion ruled supreme and religion played little to no part in its improvement. The third world is just as bad as it's always been possibly worse even and that is in large part due to religion.

USA = THE ONE TRUE SUPERPOWER ON EARTH and in GOD we trust.

Speak for yourself. This American trusts in no one, least of all your dictatorial deity.

how do you expect his world to run with no trust? lol. that's why it's failing. nobody can trust and therefore nobody can unite and divided we fall. you brave tough americans are fools. go turn on family guy or modern family

IN THE USA =in GOD we trust one nation under GOD with liberty and justice for all. PTL.

That statement is obviously untrue because I and many other atheists are in "IN THE USA" and we don't trust in God. Nor do we believe that this nation is under God and I look forward to the day when both of those things are removed from our money and our pledge. This nation was founded as a secular nation and I'll be happy when it returns to being one.

 

[MaxGrit]

You are the one that's insane.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Poorly thought out.

You say that we don't examine ourselves and ask what if there is no God. The truth is, we have and have reached the logical conclusion that if there is no God, then we're no worse off than you are. However, if God existence is proven out after the death of the physical body, then is sucks to be you.

In addition. What right do you have to even question My beliefs?

Firstly: See my previous statements on Pascal's Wager why there is nothing logical about it.
Second: What makes you think your beliefs are about questioning.? Nothing is above scrutiny not even your God.

I could care less about your take on Pascal's Wager. The logic of it cannot be refuted. The flaw then must be with you.

When it comes to anyone other than yourself, to question motives is nothing more than to fulfill a fear inside yourself.

I don't care about you not believing. I don't even care that you find some offense at others who do believe.

I only care when you try to take away My natural right to have faith, and to have that faith in the way I see fit.

I also don't get offended by your non-belief, nor do I promote or advocate that your non-belief be removed from the public square.

YOUR kind, however; cannot say the same.

Now, have a nice day.

I challenge you to find one post on this forum in which I advocated that you and others like you not be allowed to have faith. And when you come back empty handed YOU can have a nice day.

 

[haissem123]

why? is this nation, being secular, getting better? you say because of a few wordsput there to appease fools that think we are a non secular nation because of themj, is making us worse off some how? oh for believing in something more powerful and good then our silly selves?

 

[MaxGrit]

The USA started as a Christian nation.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

I LOVE others enough to give them the TRUTH if I did not care about others I would use the time for playing tennis!

LOL! I live a happy blessed life in the blessings of GOD I took early retirement living in a gated community on the golf course and playing tennis most every day,ZERO debts new brick home new BMW!!! ptl

I don't really even have to say anything here. Your stupidity and hypocrisy do you in all by themselves. According to your own words you don't care about people and you are a liar.

 

[MaxGrit]

WAS THE UNITED STATES FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION?
Recently, many authors have debated whether or not the United States of America was founded as a Christian nation. I wish to provide a few historical quotes from our Founding Era that lend credence to the supposition that we indeed were founded as a Christian nation.

Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…"

Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.

Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

Later, John Quincy Adams answered the question as to why, next to Christmas, was the Fourth of July this most joyous and venerated day in the United States. He answered: "...Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?" Sounds like the founding of a Christian nation to me. John Quincy Adams went on to say that the biggest victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and civil government would be tied together In what he called an "indissoluble" bond. The Founding Fathers understood that religion was inextricably part of our nation and government. The practice of the Christian religion in our government was not only welcomed but encouraged.

The intent of the First Amendment was well understood during the founding of our country. The First Amendment was not to keep religion out of government. It was to keep Government from establishing a 'National Denomination" (like the Church of England). As early as 1799 a court declared: "By our form of government the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing." Even in the letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut (from which we derive the term "separation of Church and State") he made it quite clear that the wall of separation was to insure that Government would never interfere with religious activities because religious freedom came from God, not from Government.

Even George Washington who certainly knew the intent of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, since he presided over their formation, said in his "Farewell Address": "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars." Sure doesn't sound like Washington was trying to separate religion and politics.

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Still sounds like the Founding Fathers knew this was a Christian nation.

This view, that we were a Christian nation, was hold for almost 150 years until the Everson v. Board of Education ruling in 1947. Before that momentous ruling, even the Supreme Court knew that we were a Christian nation. In 1892 the Court stated:

"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation." There it is again! From the Supreme Court of the United States. This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a "Christian nation".

In 1854, the House Judiciary Committee said: "in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'

It should be noted here that even as late as 1958 a dissenting judge warned in Baer v. Kolmorgen that if the court did not stop talking about the "separation of Church and State", people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution.

It has been demonstrated in their own words: Ben Franklin, George Washington and John Adams, to the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court, how our founding fathers felt about the mix of politics and religion.

When we read articles such as "What's God got to do with it?" (Primack, 5/4) and "The wall between state and church must not be breached" (Tager, 5/7) it just reaffirms how little, even intelligent people, understand about the founding of our great Republic. To say that this nation was not founded as a Christian nation or that the Constitution was not founded on Christian principles is totally at odds with the facts of history.

Was the USA Founded as a Christian Nation

 

[AtheistBuddah]

why? is this nation, being secular, getting better? you say because of a few wordsput there to appease fools that think we are a non secular nation because of themj, is making us worse off some how? oh for believing in something more powerful and good then our silly selves?

No I claim that a secular nation is a better nation because I actually paid attention in history class and I know what theocracy really looks like. Theocracy is the Spanish Inquisition. Theocracy is the Crusades. Theocracy is the Salem Witch Trials. Theocracy is what is going on in the Middle East right now. Theocracy is evil and any society or nation that is the antithesis of theocracy is a vast improvement by any standard.

 

[haissem123]

what is the presidency? what is the governor who can and does override the will of the people and legislature? you know nothing about freedom from or of religion, for you know nothing about freedom. you've never had it here or anywhere on this animal planet.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

 

[sealybobo]

if you morons had a brain, you would have fear in your hearts for the evil in men's hearts has control of this dying world. you better come to some for of common sense and work together to defend all of yourselves from this evil in some men, because it's gonna be the end of mankind if you don't. look around you. do you see things beside video games, violent tv and games , distractionary violent sports, pornographic music making the world better? better really take a hard look at which way you think we are going or how it's gonna end up, and if you think you can sit it out looking out for yourselves you better get a really big and well supplied rock to hide under.

What I'm not going to just sit around and accept is your doom and gloom rhetoric. The world isn't perfect and there are people out there that could potentially harm it a great deal but on the whole, the developed world is much more moral and much better than it was in the day when religion ruled supreme and religion played little to no part in its improvement. The third world is just as bad as it's always been possibly worse even and that is in large part due to religion.

USA = THE ONE TRUE SUPERPOWER ON EARTH and in GOD we trust.

Speak for yourself. This American trusts in no one, least of all your dictatorial deity.

how do you expect his world to run with no trust? lol. that's why it's failing. nobody can trust and therefore nobody can unite and divided we fall. you brave tough americans are fools. go turn on family guy or modern family

IN THE USA =in GOD we trust one nation under GOD with liberty and justice for all. PTL.

That statement is obviously true because I and many other atheists are in "IN THE USA" and we don't trust in God. Nor do we believe that this nation is under God and I look forward to the day when both of those things are removed from our money and our pledge. This nation was founded as a secular nation and I'll be happy when it returns to being one.

So you flunked history in school! huh? MOST FOUNDING FATHERS OF THE USA LOVED GOD AND PRAYED FOR GOD'S BLESSINGS AND PROTECTION.

You're either a liar or you've been lied to.

One of the many attacks on our country from the Religious Right is the claim that our country is a Christian Nation...not just that the majority of people are Christians, but that the country itself was founded by Christians, for Christians. However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. Those people who spread this lie are known as Christian Revisionists. They are attempting to rewrite history, in much the same way as holocaust deniers are. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith.
If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had.

 

[dblack]

All religions have their genesis in fear.

I don't really buy that.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

if you morons had a brain, you would have fear in your hearts for the evil in men's hearts has control of this dying world. you better come to some for of common sense and work together to defend all of yourselves from this evil in some men, because it's gonna be the end of mankind if you don't. look around you. do you see things beside video games, violent tv and games , distractionary violent sports, pornographic music making the world better? better really take a hard look at which way you think we are going or how it's gonna end up, and if you think you can sit it out looking out for yourselves you better get a really big and well supplied rock to hide under.

What I'm not going to just sit around and accept is your doom and gloom rhetoric. The world isn't perfect and there are people out there that could potentially harm it a great deal but on the whole, the developed world is much more moral and much better than it was in the day when religion ruled supreme and religion played little to no part in its improvement. The third world is just as bad as it's always been possibly worse even and that is in large part due to religion.

USA = THE ONE TRUE SUPERPOWER ON EARTH and in GOD we trust.

Speak for yourself. This American trusts in no one, least of all your dictatorial deity.

how do you expect his world to run with no trust? lol. that's why it's failing. nobody can trust and therefore nobody can unite and divided we fall. you brave tough americans are fools. go turn on family guy or modern family

IN THE USA =in GOD we trust one nation under GOD with liberty and justice for all. PTL.

That statement is obviously true because I and many other atheists are in "IN THE USA" and we don't trust in God. Nor do we believe that this nation is under God and I look forward to the day when both of those things are removed from our money and our pledge. This nation was founded as a secular nation and I'll be happy when it returns to being one.

So you flunked history in school! huh? MOST FOUNDING FATHERS OF THE USA LOVED GOD AND PRAYED FOR GOD'S BLESSINGS AND PROTECTION.

Most of then were Deists and hated organized religion and believed wholeheartedly in the separation of church and state. Not to mention the Treaty of Tripoli, which was written by many of the founding fathers says in writing that this nation was not founded on the Christian religion. I crushed history class in high school so don't try to bring that nonsense at me and expect results.

 

[haissem123]

this thread is a waste of time. I will not deny any of you your hero worship of "so called genius men" These geniuses have led us to a house of ruin, in my opinion, because you give them too much power. My God and his messiah, give all the power to me to decide what to believe. you think I must bow to your b.s. artist and i should be crazy in love with the same ol same ol worship of men hell bent on proving they are God's gift to us all. lol. You can go your own way too, for those that are not against us are for us.. But you don't see it that way. too bad. you always wanna fight to see whose right, night

 

[sealybobo]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?