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Faith is Born from Fear

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - Treaty of Tripoli



David Barton

The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, specifically article XI, is commonly misused in editorial columns, articles, as well as in other areas of the media, both Christian and secular. We have received numerous questions from people who have been misled by the claims that are being made, namely, that America was not founded as a Christian nation. Advocates of this idea use the Treaty of Tripoli as the foundation of their entire argument, and we believe you deserve to know the truth regarding this often misused document. The following is an excerpt from David Barton's book Original Intent:
To determine whether the "Founding Fathers" were generally atheists, agnostics, and deists, one must first define those terms. An "atheist" is one who professes to believe that there is no God; 1 an "agnostic" is one who professes that nothing can be known beyond what is visible and tangible; 2 and a "deist" is one who believes in an impersonal God who is no longer involved with mankind. (In other words, a "deist" embraces the "clockmaker theory" 3 that there was a God who made the universe and wound it up like a clock; however, it now runs of its own volition; the clockmaker is gone and therefore does not respond to man.) Today the terms "atheist," "agnostic," and "deist" have been used together so often that their meanings have almost become synonymous. In fact, many dictionaries list these words as synonym. 4

Those who advance the notion that this was the belief system of the Founders often publish information attempting to prove that the Founders were irreligious. 5 One of the quotes they set forth is the following:

The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion. GEORGE WASHINGTON
The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli is the source of Washington's supposed statement. Is this statement accurate? Did this prominent Founder truly repudiate religion? An answer will be found by an examination of its source. That treaty, one of several with Tripoli, was negotiated during the "Barbary Powers Conflict," which began shortly after the Revolutionary War and continued through the Presidencies of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Madison. 6 The Muslim Barbary Powers (Tunis, Morocco, Algiers, and Tripoli) were warring against what they claimed to be the "Christian" nations (England, France, Spain, Denmark, and the United States). In 1801, Tripoli even declared war against the United States, 7 thus constituting America's first official war as an established independent nation.
Throughout this long conflict, the four Barbary Powers regularly attacked undefended American merchant ships. Not only were their cargoes easy prey but the Barbary Powers were also capturing and enslaving "Christian" seamen 8 in retaliation for what had been done to them by the "Christians" of previous centuries (e.g., the Crusades and Ferdinand and Isabella's expulsion of Muslims from Granada 9). In an attempt to secure a release of captured seamen and a guarantee of unmolested shipping in the Mediterranean, President Washington dispatched envoys to negotiate treaties with the Barbary nations. 10 (Concurrently, he encouraged the construction of American naval warships 11 to defend the shipping and confront the Barbary "pirates" – a plan not seriously pursued until President John Adams created a separate Department of the Navy in 1798.)

Rest of article at link.

Edited to comply with copyright rules: Please post only a portion of an article - one to two thirds is enough.
 
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what is the presidency? what is the governor who can and does override the will of the people and legislature? you know nothing about freedom from or of religion, for you know nothing about freedom. you've never had it here or anywhere on this animal planet.
ROFLMAO!!! YOU POOR little guy what a pathetic excuse for a life you must live. Seek GOD and live life as a happy blessed son of ALMIGHTY GOD.
are you saying something of any meaning here? you savior stood against the pompous ponchas pilot and you now stand with the pilot's misguided course? roflmao to you too my heathen friend. God bless. and good night.
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.
 
I seriously doubt that fear had anything to do with early religion.

Fear is a primitive tactic to herd people. A practical religion does not need fear, it just need to give good advice on living.

Anything else is some kind of "attachment" which you could examine further if you want to know what the purpose of a particular religion/religious sect is.

OMG you couldn't be any more dumb. Fear is exactly the reason the human mind came up with god(s). That and ignorance regarding science. Think about early primitive man. Like us they wondered what happened to their love ones when they died. They were sad when they died. And they wondered what would happen to them when they died. Of course they told themselves that one day they would see their love ones again in the great beyond. In "heaven".

Like every other animal humans too had a healthy fear of the unknown. It helped keep them alive. They also had brains large enough to imagine up a super parent/god(s).

Fear played a very big part in inventing god. For you to suggest not says how close minded you are to the possibility that your god(s) are completely made up. Trust us, they are.

The human response to fear is not faith... it is anger.

Really? When I was scared as a kid I ran to my parents arms. I don't remember being angry.

HowStuffWorks Fear Responses

Are you sure about that?

If you enjoy horror movies, you know that fear can be exciting. Many people enjoy being afraid -- the arousal that comes with the fight-or-flight response can be pleasurable and can even mimic sexual arousal. It's no wonder so many people go to see scary movies and ride roller coasters on dates.

There is actual scientific evidence that supports the fear-attraction connection.

Yes. I'm sure about that. We are not talking about adrenaline rush here. We are talking about fear of unseen future events. Like being afraid your spouse may not be faithful. The response to such fear is not faith, it is anger.

People who fear death aren't angry. I don't get angry when I think about death.

In fact I laugh at theists who get mad at god(s) when someone they love dies. As if god is looking out for each and every one of us personally. NOT.

Right. You have exhibited absolutely no anger here. I understand.
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.

You do get that the majority of liberals are Christians, don't you?
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

You are doing to others what you complain others are doing to you.

I am doing no such thing. I do not complain about the criticism of my ideas in fact I welcome and cherish it. I welcome Christians to make the same criticizing statements about my views because that is a vital part of how a free society works. What I complain about is when my rights and the rights of other minorities are infringed upon by the Christian majority in the name of their specific values.

Yes, you are. You are taking an entire class of people and sticking them into a little box and slapping a label on it. You are acting in exactly the same manner as the people you are complaining about.
 
Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief.

On the contrary, many Christians go through intervals of doubt and questioning. Only a minority, in my experience, are truly stubborn and unreceptive to logical reasoning that opposes their belief system

This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

It is probable that archaic polytheism which eventually evolved into widespread monotheism was not, as you propose, a response to fear; but instead it stemmed more so as a consolation for primitive man to satisfy unanswerable questions about death, and more importantly how humans adapted to learn to cope with loss.

It is only of recent times that the "man under the sun" is opting for a different concept of God/No God.

Do you feel annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God? Because they have not, in your words, questioned their beliefs?
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.

You do get that the majority of liberals are Christians, don't you?

But the majority of fundamentalist, Bible thumping thought police are conservatives. You do see that, don't you?
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.
Just know that you will give account for your every word on judgment day will your own words condemn you?

No but yours will if there really is a judgement day. Your God is said to look poorly on liars and the self righteous.
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

You are doing to others what you complain others are doing to you.

I am doing no such thing. I do not complain about the criticism of my ideas in fact I welcome and cherish it. I welcome Christians to make the same criticizing statements about my views because that is a vital part of how a free society works. What I complain about is when my rights and the rights of other minorities are infringed upon by the Christian majority in the name of their specific values.

Yes, you are. You are taking an entire class of people and sticking them into a little box and slapping a label on it. You are acting in exactly the same manner as the people you are complaining about.

The fundamental difference is that I am not trying to get laws passed that limit their freedom of expression.
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.
Just know that you will give account for your every word on judgment day will your own words condemn you?

No but yours will if there really is a judgement day. Your God is said to look poorly on liars and the self righteous.
Jesus is the final judge of sin loving unbelievers on judgment day but JESUS is a believers LORD and Savior and the only judgment believers face is the judgments of their works for what rewards they will receive!!! AWESOME!!! HUH??

Cool story bro!
 
Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief.

On the contrary, many Christians go through intervals of doubt and questioning. Only a minority, in my experience, are truly stubborn and unreceptive to logical reasoning that opposes their belief system

This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

It is probable that archaic polytheism which eventually evolved into widespread monotheism was not, as you propose, a response to fear; but instead it stemmed more so as a consolation for primitive man to satisfy unanswerable questions about death, and more importantly how humans adapted to learn to cope with loss.

It is only of recent times that the "man under the sun" is opting for a different concept of God/No God.

Do you feel annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God? Because they have not, in your words, questioned their beliefs?


Sadly though many Christians who go through those intervals of doubt turn to their religious authority (pastor, priest, etc) who is trained to discredit that doubt and reaffirm the delusion. So their doubt and reflection accomplishes nothing.

Why do you think primitive man would need a consolation to satisfy unanswerable questions about death? Because we fear the unknown and we as social animals fear an outcome that results in nonexistence. We fear having the experience and social interaction that is life taken away.

And yes I do feel slightly annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God because they have chosen not to question it. But that is their right and I would never dream of taking it from them.
 
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I love Carl Sagan man. One of the most inspirational minds of our time.

No doubt. I remember listening to George Carlin on how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever written and I remember being in full agreement with what he was saying but I didn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that the entire notion of god is insane.

Today I can go on the internet and listen to great minds like Sagan. And watch the theists will bash him just like the Republicans bash Michael Moore. If they don't like what they are hearing they try to discredit the speaker. They'll say Sagan is a kook or nut. He's not. He's brilliant.

I agree. Christians resort to attacking the person and trying to discredit them when they can't attack the actual argument on its merits.

I do have to disagree with you about Michael Moor, however. I agree with his opinions on Bush but I find his support of Obama to be a little hypocritical.

You get the point though. The GOP hated Michael Moore because he was saying things they didn't like, but rather than discuss the topics he was talking about, they attack him personally and so nothing Michael Moore ever produces or says in the future matters. It's a tactic they use. They do it to every liberal. Pelosi, Reed, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, etc.

Yet we have to listen to what Romney, Chaney, Rush, Bill O'Reilly & Glen Beck have to say. Why are they taken seriously?

Yes I definitely agree. Christians do this far too often. They have this idea that free speech is a bad thing because it allows people to say things they don't like and if this nation ever became a true theocracy we would see that free speech we all enjoy become greatly diminished.
Just know that you will give account for your every word on judgment day will your own words condemn you?

No but yours will if there really is a judgement day. Your God is said to look poorly on liars and the self righteous.
Jesus is the final judge of sin loving unbelievers on judgment day but JESUS is a believers LORD and Savior and the only judgment believers face is the judgments of their works for what rewards they will receive!!! AWESOME!!! HUH??

I just want to say for the record, people like you sicken me. Whatever potential for good Christianity has is lost when people like you get involved.
 
Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief.

On the contrary, many Christians go through intervals of doubt and questioning. Only a minority, in my experience, are truly stubborn and unreceptive to logical reasoning that opposes their belief system

This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

It is probable that archaic polytheism which eventually evolved into widespread monotheism was not, as you propose, a response to fear; but instead it stemmed more so as a consolation for primitive man to satisfy unanswerable questions about death, and more importantly how humans adapted to learn to cope with loss.

It is only of recent times that the "man under the sun" is opting for a different concept of God/No God.

Do you feel annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God? Because they have not, in your words, questioned their beliefs?


Sadly though many Christians who go through those intervals of doubt turn to their religious authority (pastor, priest, etc) who is trained to discredit that doubt and reaffirm the delusion. So their doubt and reflection accomplishes nothing.

Why do you think primitive man would need a consolation to satisfy unanswerable questions about death? Because we fear the unknown and we as social animals fear an outcome that results in nonexistence. We fear having the experience and social interaction that is life taken away.

And yes I do feel slightly annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God because they have chosen not to question it. But that is their right and I would never dream of taking it from them.
I sought truth=GOD and I knew when I found it Him! Why would I want to question truth?

Everything should be questioned. Even things we take for granted as being true.
 
Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief.

On the contrary, many Christians go through intervals of doubt and questioning. Only a minority, in my experience, are truly stubborn and unreceptive to logical reasoning that opposes their belief system

This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

It is probable that archaic polytheism which eventually evolved into widespread monotheism was not, as you propose, a response to fear; but instead it stemmed more so as a consolation for primitive man to satisfy unanswerable questions about death, and more importantly how humans adapted to learn to cope with loss.

It is only of recent times that the "man under the sun" is opting for a different concept of God/No God.

Do you feel annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God? Because they have not, in your words, questioned their beliefs?


Sadly though many Christians who go through those intervals of doubt turn to their religious authority (pastor, priest, etc) who is trained to discredit that doubt and reaffirm the delusion. So their doubt and reflection accomplishes nothing.

Why do you think primitive man would need a consolation to satisfy unanswerable questions about death? Because we fear the unknown and we as social animals fear an outcome that results in nonexistence. We fear having the experience and social interaction that is life taken away.

And yes I do feel slightly annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God because they have chosen not to question it. But that is their right and I would never dream of taking it from them.
I sought truth=GOD and I knew when I found it Him! Why would I want to question truth?

Everything should be questioned. Even things we take for granted as being true.

What about the notion that everything should be questioned? That seems highly questionable to me.
 
oh? satan had the same idea he questioned GOD'S Word he said to eve,"did GOD really say you would surely die if you do not obey His law"? Satan lives on lies doubt and fear that is all he has to defeat man. Why help satan?

Satan who?
 
Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief.

On the contrary, many Christians go through intervals of doubt and questioning. Only a minority, in my experience, are truly stubborn and unreceptive to logical reasoning that opposes their belief system

This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

It is probable that archaic polytheism which eventually evolved into widespread monotheism was not, as you propose, a response to fear; but instead it stemmed more so as a consolation for primitive man to satisfy unanswerable questions about death, and more importantly how humans adapted to learn to cope with loss.

It is only of recent times that the "man under the sun" is opting for a different concept of God/No God.

Do you feel annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God? Because they have not, in your words, questioned their beliefs?


Sadly though many Christians who go through those intervals of doubt turn to their religious authority (pastor, priest, etc) who is trained to discredit that doubt and reaffirm the delusion. So their doubt and reflection accomplishes nothing.

Why do you think primitive man would need a consolation to satisfy unanswerable questions about death? Because we fear the unknown and we as social animals fear an outcome that results in nonexistence. We fear having the experience and social interaction that is life taken away.

And yes I do feel slightly annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God because they have chosen not to question it. But that is their right and I would never dream of taking it from them.
I sought truth=GOD and I knew when I found it Him! Why would I want to question truth?

Everything should be questioned. Even things we take for granted as being true.

What about the notion that everything should be questioned? That seems highly questionable to me.

Yes everything should be questioned, so question away. I could even question your finding my questioning everything questionable but then we'd just be going in circles.
 
Sadly though many Christians who go through those intervals of doubt turn to their religious authority (pastor, priest, etc) who is trained to discredit that doubt and reaffirm the delusion. So their doubt and reflection accomplishes nothing.

Why do you think primitive man would need a consolation to satisfy unanswerable questions about death? Because we fear the unknown and we as social animals fear an outcome that results in nonexistence. We fear having the experience and social interaction that is life taken away.

And yes I do feel slightly annoyed by Christians who are satisfied with their version of God because they have chosen not to question it. But that is their right and I would never dream of taking it from them.

Again, consciousness of inevitable death does not mean even primitive man was afraid to die. But since they were human they felt loss, they grieved, they cried, they found a satisfactory solution to act as a coping mechanism.

Further, why be annoyed by Christians who are content with their version of reality? Basically, you're proselytizing to the non-atheist in an identical manner as the Christian to you, and that's about as smart as spitting into the wind.
 

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