Fedgov vs Apple : In re Iphone "backdoor"

[bendog]

A tech area lawyer for the ACLU said on NPR, as I was commuting, that it was absurd to think the NSA can't crack a phone. I'm ignorant of the tech, but I had that same thought.

 

[Valerie]

"The Supreme Court doesn't know diddly about the nature and extent of the threat," Scalia said. Later on, he added, "It's truly stupid that my court is going to be the last word on it."



The text of the Fourth Amendment bars unwarranted searches of "persons, houses, papers, and effects." But, as Scalia told the audience, "conversations are quite different" from all four of those things.

Scalia Comes To Brooklyn, Drops Huge Hint About NSA Surveillance And The Supreme Court

this new iphone5c was just recently created with these unhackable encryption capabilities btw...

the FBI always had and still has the ability to gather info when warranted...

the fabricated fear mongering is bogus paranoia of possibilities imo, perpetuated by traitor snowden and his misguided supporters across the globe, and hidden behind by anti-American schemers who respect no authority whatsoever while driven by their violent delusions...

to the misguided supporters who are well intentioned Americans, i get it, but you are wrong on this..

ultimately i say, be careful what you wish for, GLIBertarians!



Malik had expressed support for the Islamic State on a Facebook page created under an alias, investigators say, but there are still many questions about who the two shooters might have communicated with before the attack, and what their motives were.


During the investigation, the FBI obtained an iPhone 5c used by Syed Farook. The device was a company phone, owned by Farook's employer, San Bernardino County.


Investigators have a warrant to search the phone and also have permission from the county — but the phone is protected by a passcode that the FBI does not know.


The agency has asked Apple to help it circumvent the phone's security features — a request Apple has denied. Now a federal judge has ordered Apple to cooperate, and Apple has refused.

Apple, The FBI And iPhone Encryption: A Look At What's At Stake

 

[Valerie]

What is the FBI looking for?

Investigators say they've already obtained the most recent backup of Farook's iCloud account — but that the iCloud account stopped updating a month and a half before the attack. That suggests there may be something valuable on the actual phone, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Central District of California wrote in a court filing:

"This indicates to the FBI that Farook may have disabled the automatic iCloud backup function to hide evidence, and demonstrates that there may be relevant, critical communications and data around the time of the shooting that has thus far not been accessed, may reside solely on the SUBJECT DEVICE, and cannot be accessed by any other means known to either the government or Apple."

... there may be relevant, critical communications and data around the time of the shooting that has thus far not been accessed. ...

U.S. Attorneys, in a court filing

We don't know what, if anything, the phone contains. Law enforcement can typically access some information shared through a phone — such as social media posts, Web searches, some emails and text messages — with a subpoena to telecom and tech companies. But some information, such as iMessages or WhatsApp messages, gets encrypted on the sender's phone and only gets decrypted when delivered, while other data, like photos, might never get shared with another device.

Apple, The FBI And iPhone Encryption: A Look At What's At Stake

 

[Valerie]

thanks a lot, Apple corp, the terrorists and their anti-American sympathizers thank you very much!



"The encryption is so well done and so hard that they know they're not going to be able to break the encryption or they would have already done that," says Joseph Lorenzo Hall, chief technologist at the Center for Democracy and Technology.


In fact, Apple designed iPhone security with exactly this kind of scenario in mind, saying the company made it impossible even for Apple to crack. The data are protected by a code specific to the physical device and a passcode (aka PIN) set by the user. Without both numbers, Apple says, it's impossible for third parties to decrypt the phone's content.

Apple, The FBI And iPhone Encryption: A Look At What's At Stake

 

[Valerie]

"Apple says, it's impossible for third parties to decrypt the phone's content."








Earlier today, a federal judge ordered Apple to comply with the FBI’s request for technical assistance in the recovery of the San Bernadino gunmen’s iPhone 5C. Since then, many have argued whether these requests from the FBI are technically feasible given the support for strong encryption on iOS devices. Based on my initial reading of the request and my knowledge of the iOS platform, I believe all of the FBI’s requests are technically feasible.

Apple can comply with the FBI court order

 

[candycorn]

Candycorn thinks that Apple should unlock the guy's phone or assist the government in any way possible. If it takes a large amount of engineering time to do so, the FBI should reimburse Apple for that time.

The argument seems to be that if they did this once, the genie would be let out of the box and wiz-bang-wow, I could unlock my assistant's phone in a matter of moments....

Somehow, the 2-300 songs I purchased from I-tunes are not winding up on any one else's phone for free and Apple is able to send me that one file that contains the music I listen to when I work out or am driving in the car. But it cannot send one "key" to this guy's I-Phone that will help the feds unlock it?

Sounds fishy to me.

But the technological aspects of these products is beyond my comprehension....perhaps there are other barriers that the engineers cannot surpass.

I doubt that is the case as well.

 

[Desperado]

Have to agree with Apple! Personal privacy is of the highest importance If Apple does for one they will have to do it for any other government that asks.

 

[Contumacious]

“The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe,” Mr. Cook said.

BULLSHIT ^


Apple argues that the software the F.B.I. wants it to create does not exist. But technologists say the company can do it.


Mr. Cook’s angry tone reflected the tense discussions, conducted mostly on the telephone, between his company and the government’s lawyers over the San Bernardino case. Apple executives had hoped to resolve the impasse without having to rewrite their own encryption software. They were frustrated that the Justice Department had aired its demand in public, according to an industry executive with knowledge of the case, who spoke on the condition of anonymity about internal discussions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/technology/apple-timothy-cook-fbi-san-bernardino.html?_r=0

Edward Snowden defends Apple in fight against FBI

"The FBI is creating a world where citizens rely on Apple to defend their rights, rather than the other way around," Snowden said Wednesday morning on Twitter.


.

 

[easyt65]

Apple's refusal is in part 'for show' to make it seem they stand in defense of their customers, that they will not jeopardize their data. It is also, in part, Apple not wanting to give anyone access to their technology. That's my opinion.

The govt forcing a company to create a back-door to by-pass customer encryption? Yeah, what could go wrong there, though?

 

[Contumacious]

Apple's refusal is in part 'for show' to make it seem they stand in defense of their customers, that they will not jeopardize their data. It is also, in part, Apple not wanting to give anyone access to their technology. That's my opinion.

The govt forcing a company to create a back-door to by-pass customer encryption? Yeah, what could go wrong there, though?

No, A Judge Did Not Just Order Apple To Break Encryption On San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone, But To Create A New Backdoor

 

[Rustic]

Candycorn thinks that Apple should unlock the guy's phone or assist the government in any way possible. If it takes a large amount of engineering time to do so, the FBI should reimburse Apple for that time.

The argument seems to be that if they did this once, the genie would be let out of the box and wiz-bang-wow, I could unlock my assistant's phone in a matter of moments....

Somehow, the 2-300 songs I purchased from I-tunes are not winding up on any one else's phone for free and Apple is able to send me that one file that contains the music I listen to when I work out or am driving in the car. But it cannot send one "key" to this guy's I-Phone that will help the feds unlock it?

Sounds fishy to me.

But the technological aspects of these products is beyond my comprehension....perhaps there are other barriers that the engineers cannot surpass.

I doubt that is the case as well.

There should be no corporation with the government whatsoever...

 

[easyt65]

Apple's refusal is in part 'for show' to make it seem they stand in defense of their customers, that they will not jeopardize their data. It is also, in part, Apple not wanting to give anyone access to their technology. That's my opinion.

The govt forcing a company to create a back-door to by-pass customer encryption? Yeah, what could go wrong there, though?

No, A Judge Did Not Just Order Apple To Break Encryption On San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone, But To Create A New Backdoor

As I said, it would require them to 1) Create a backdoor to an encrypted Apple device....their ability to do that might make some customers uneasy; 2) potentially give some outsiders access to Apple Technology, which they are loathe to do. 3) The Backdoor would be used to get around the user's encryption, right? To access the information on an encrypted system, right? where exactly was I wrong?

 

[Contumacious]

Apple's refusal is in part 'for show' to make it seem they stand in defense of their customers, that they will not jeopardize their data. It is also, in part, Apple not wanting to give anyone access to their technology. That's my opinion.

The govt forcing a company to create a back-door to by-pass customer encryption? Yeah, what could go wrong there, though?

No, A Judge Did Not Just Order Apple To Break Encryption On San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone, But To Create A New Backdoor

As I said, it would require them to 1) Create a backdoor to an encrypted Apple device....their ability to do that might make some customers uneasy; 2) potentially give some outsiders access to Apple Technology, which they are loathe to do. 3) The Backdoor would be used to get around the user's encryption, right? To access the information on an encrypted system, right? where exactly was I wrong?

You weren't.


i was emphasizing how correct you were.


ACLU

"The government has invoked the All Writs Act to compel Apple, Inc. to unlock and make available personal data stored on a private Apple-manufactured mobile device seized by the government. This is an extraordinary and unjustified attempt to compel a third party not accused of wrongdoing to assist the government in obtaining information that the third party neither possesses nor controls. Private parties may not be conscripted into governmental service where the party is simply the manufacturer of a device the government has seized, and where the government’s request goes beyond asking the party to turn over information within its possession, or to intercept communications passing through a medium it controls.

 

[Valerie]

Edward Joseph "Ed" Snowden is an American computer professional, former CIA employee, and former government contractor who leaked classified information from the U.S. National Security Agency in 2013. Wikipedia


The legislation authorizing the spying was signed into law the first time in July 2008 and the ACLU immediately brought suit.

...a program that Congress eventually legalized in 2008 and again in 2012.

Supreme Court Thwarts Challenge to Warrantless Surveillance

snowden is a self aggrandizing moron who betrayed an oath to his country and breached our national security.

Apple is nothing more than grandstanding on the world stage to appeal to idiots who hold him up as some sort of hero.

 

[deaddogseye]

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Backdoor' to Help FBI Access San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

Cook concludes Apple's open letter by saying the company's opposition to the order is not an action they took lightly and that they challenge the request "with the deepest respect for democracy and a love for our country." Ultimately, Apple fears these demands would "undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect."


Contumacious applauds Mr. Tim Cook.

What the government is asking for will destroy Apple.

Under the old Constitution (1787-1935) Apple had rights protected by the 4 and 5th Amendments. It also had a right to Judicial Review.

That is no longer available. Mr Cook is own his own.

An Article III Judge would have demanded that the government stop meddling in the internal affairs of other nations.

A scumbag spineless impostor pretending to be a judge will simply comply with the FBI's request.


.For shame.

Im surprised that Tim Cook isn't all for this. Ive always heard he is very much a backdoor kind of guy.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Backdoor' to Help FBI Access San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

Cook concludes Apple's open letter by saying the company's opposition to the order is not an action they took lightly and that they challenge the request "with the deepest respect for democracy and a love for our country." Ultimately, Apple fears these demands would "undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect."


Contumacious applauds Mr. Tim Cook.

What the government is asking for will destroy Apple.

Under the old Constitution (1787-1935) Apple had rights protected by the 4 and 5th Amendments. It also had a right to Judicial Review.

That is no longer available. Mr Cook is own his own.

An Article III Judge would have demanded that the government stop meddling in the internal affairs of other nations.

A scumbag spineless impostor pretending to be a judge will simply comply with the FBI's request.


.For shame.

once again, for the pretend constitutionalist: the 4th and 5th amendments are not limitless and, in fact, allow for "REASONABLE SEARCH AND SEIZURE". That term has been defined ad infinitum, by caselaw.

there is no question that the phone is subject to search. the proponents of the right to be free of unreasonable serach and seizure are dead. I don't believe their family members are objecting and it is not apple's rights that are being infringed.

they are doing what they should...which is appeal and wait for the decisions of the court. they can then appeal that one as far up as the supreme court if they choose to.

and that is what they're waiting for.

for shame on whom? if it was the house of the dead terrorists, you certainly wouldn't have a problem with searching their communications.

So says the girl that says slander is a crime.

Whatever.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Candycorn thinks that Apple should unlock the guy's phone or assist the government in any way possible. If it takes a large amount of engineering time to do so, the FBI should reimburse Apple for that time.

The argument seems to be that if they did this once, the genie would be let out of the box and wiz-bang-wow, I could unlock my assistant's phone in a matter of moments....

Somehow, the 2-300 songs I purchased from I-tunes are not winding up on any one else's phone for free and Apple is able to send me that one file that contains the music I listen to when I work out or am driving in the car. But it cannot send one "key" to this guy's I-Phone that will help the feds unlock it?

Sounds fishy to me.

But the technological aspects of these products is beyond my comprehension....perhaps there are other barriers that the engineers cannot surpass.

I doubt that is the case as well.

There should be no corporation with the government whatsoever...

Agreed. But here is what the fed should do:

Offer a two million dollar reward to any citizen that can break the code. Bet somebody would find a way to do it in two weeks.

 

[Desperado]

Candycorn thinks that Apple should unlock the guy's phone or assist the government in any way possible. If it takes a large amount of engineering time to do so, the FBI should reimburse Apple for that time.

The argument seems to be that if they did this once, the genie would be let out of the box and wiz-bang-wow, I could unlock my assistant's phone in a matter of moments....

Somehow, the 2-300 songs I purchased from I-tunes are not winding up on any one else's phone for free and Apple is able to send me that one file that contains the music I listen to when I work out or am driving in the car. But it cannot send one "key" to this guy's I-Phone that will help the feds unlock it?

Sounds fishy to me.

But the technological aspects of these products is beyond my comprehension....perhaps there are other barriers that the engineers cannot surpass.

I doubt that is the case as well.

There should be no corporation with the government whatsoever...

Agreed. But here is what the fed should do:

Offer a two million dollar reward to any citizen that can break the code. Bet somebody would find a way to do it in two weeks.

Great Idea
Motivate and Reward.....

 

[Desperado]

Just curious. Do Apple computer hard drives have the same security?
If not they should. That would make one great lock box for sensitive files.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Just curious. Do Apple computer hard drives have the same security?
If not they should. That would make one great lock box for sensitive files.

No, I don't think they do. If I (for some reason) can't get into my computer, Apple will find a way for me to log in.