Feds demand gun store owner turn over customer list. He refuses

[paperview]

When has a long standing democracy ever had a revolution?

When they cease to be Republics/Democracies.

Does Egypt ring a bell?

What's happening in the Ukraine?

The Irish Republican Army?

What a dumb fucking question.

When was Egypt or Ukraine ever a long standing democracy?

I don't think he understood the question.

 

[Brain357]

And according to the same DoJ crime statistics over 2,700,000 crimes each year are prevented by civilians having firearms.

Stats for how many crimes are prevented by guns are highly flawed.
Do guns make us safer? - CNN.com

232,000 guns are stolen each year. That's a pretty good source for crime. So are owners really doing more against or for crime? Supplying them with 232,000 guns a year is certainly helping crime.

Department of Justice Statistics:

You are far more likely to survive
a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun.

Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%

U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979 60
Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey 61
U.S. Department of Justice 62
U.S. Department of Justice 63
British Home Office – no a pro-gun organization by any mean

From these same studies.

Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women
defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Fact:
When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes are
successful, compared to 32% when unarmed.

Fact:
The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no
resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the
benefits are smaller: offering no resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than
resisting with a gun.

Fact:
27% of women keep a gun in the house.

Fact:
37.6 million women either own or have rapid access to guns.

Fact:
In 1966 the city of Orlando responded to a wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms
training classes to women. The number of rapes dropped by nearly 90%.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/55878NCJRS.pdf

[MENTION=43262]Brain357[/MENTION] run along now little boy.

Carrying a gun makes you far more like to be shot.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

You run along.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That great patriot Sam Adams thinks people who rebel against the laws of a republic ought to be put to death -- hung.

What does Sam Adams think about people rebelling against tyranny, and what rebellion against the laws of a republic was Sam Adams involved in?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is interesting that people will point out the circumstances of the past and then say that today, that couldn't happen.

But we are not talking about the circumstances. We are talking about the spirit, or motivation of the people who achieve these great things.

During the American Revolution, a significant portion of the population did not partake in the rebellion, and many thought of themselves as British citizens. Right up to the point where the rebels won and found themselves to be an Independent nation.

I offer this up as a counter to the inevitable argument that will come that says, "Not enough of the population will back a revolution."

In any revolution in history, it was never a majority of the population that won the day...But enough of them to make a difference.

Has America lost that?

When has a long standing democracy ever had a revolution?

We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a non representative republic.

 

[paperview]

That great patriot Sam Adams thinks people who rebel against the laws of a republic ought to be put to death -- hung.

What does Sam Adams think about people rebelling against tyranny, and what rebellion against the laws of a republic was Sam Adams involved in?

Against a king -- he was all fer it.

He wasn't involved in a rebellion in a republic. He did witness one though and as I said - he thought those who did so under our form of government should be hung.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns.

And according to the same DoJ crime statistics over 2,700,000 crimes each year are prevented by civilians having firearms.

Stats for how many crimes are prevented by guns are highly flawed.
Do guns make us safer? - CNN.com

232,000 guns are stolen each year. That's a pretty good source for crime. So are owners really doing more against or for crime? Supplying them with 232,000 guns a year is certainly helping crime.

If you actually believe that stats are skewed, present the fucking stats and make your case using actual math. If all you got is a half assed idiot who works for CNN you ain't got a case.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When has a long standing democracy ever had a revolution?

Don't know since WE aren't one.

I don't think you'll come up with one.

As far as I know, there has only been one Democracy in the entire history of man. That only worked because it was limited to a single city, and it quickly failed because, even on that scale, they had too many people like you around.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't think you'll come up with one.

So just throw in the towel and capitulate to the tyranny we live in...about right? THAT is what you're spouting here.

No. I'm saying countries where people vote don't need revolutions.

That explains Venezuela.

Wait, it doesn't, it just proves you are an idiot.

 

[Brain357]

So just throw in the towel and capitulate to the tyranny we live in...about right? THAT is what you're spouting here.

No. I'm saying countries where people vote don't need revolutions.

[MENTION=28547]brain[/MENTION]257

Are you unaware of the Battle of Athens, Tennessee, where the People took up arms to Restore Fair and Honest Elections?

The Battle of Athens

Press on the Battle of Athens, Tenn. 1946

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ut6yPrObw]The Battle of Athens: Restoring the Rule of Law - YouTube[/ame]

The Chronology of The Battle of Athens

Election Day, August 1, 1946

9:00 am​

Voting poles opened. Voter turn out was heavy.

The First Flare Up — Precinct 1 (Courthouse)

The Jailing of Walter Ellis

Shortly after 10:00 am​

Conflicting reports as to when Walter Ellis, GI election judge was arrested, one account says 9:30, another says shortly after 10:00 am, but the overall details are consistent. Ellis was summarily arrested and hauled off to the county jail. He was replaced by Fred West. Dispute over who exactly Fred West was immediately erupted. The sheriff's office described West as another GI; Jim Buttram, the GI ticket manager described him as a deputy sheriff and local bartender.

Ellis was held incommunicado at the county jail, and Sheriff Mansfield's men flatly declined to permit either reporters or Buttram to see him. Magistrate Herman Moses, when asked what charges had been placed declared Ellis had "attempted to perpetrate a fraud" by marking ballots in Precinct 1, at the courthouse. Buttram admitted frankly he did not know what had happened in the voting precinct prior to Ellis' arrest but said Sheriff Mansfield's men refused to permit him to make bond for Ellis or to tell him what charges had been placed against the ex-GI.

The Courthouse (Precinct 1)

11:00 am-2:00 pm​

The corridor of the courthouse was crowded with voters, both men and women. Ellis already had been removed, but evidently in fear of some disorder, about 20 deputies, hands on pistols, and blackjacks ready, pushed through the crowd to the voting precinct.

This overgrown combat squad was reinforced by several uniformed and armed city policemen and a state highway patrolman with his hand fingering a heavy revolver.

The deputies ranged themselves around the voting precinct and several, including one dressed like a character from a western movie, placed themselves on the steps where they could watch the entire corridor. Ex-servicemen regard the day's proceedings with varying attitudes but most of them displayed a bitterness seldom seen in the fighting lines. One ex-soldier watching the guarded vote counting before it was moved to the county jail said: "Over there we had something to fight back with." Another remarked, "We just aren't well enough organized and we haven't got guns. We haven't got a chance with this gestapo."

"This is causing a lot of bitterness, and a lot of it will come later today," a man remarked.

The Shooting of Tom Gillespie

[/enter]Precinct 11, Athens Water Company Building[/center]

2:45 pm

Tom Gillespie, a [black] farmer came into the Athens Water Company building, which was serving as the 11th Precinct, to vote. It is not clear which of Cantrell's men positioned himself behind Gillespie to observe his vote but when he was observed to be preparing to vote "the wrong way" the Cantrell man told Gillespie, "You'll have to get out of here. You're voting in the wrong precinct."

3:00 pm

Gillespie protested to Deputy Windy Wise, "I've always voted here before."​

For this monumental impertinence, Wise slugged Gillespie with brass knuckles and shot him with what was said to be a U.S. Army .45 as he stumbled out the door. Gillespie suffered a flesh wound in the small of the back and was taken off by deputy sheriffs for what they said would be treatment.

Just to show that the racial question didn't enter into this travesty-on-an-election, the gold starred deputies directed their attention to the GI election clerks and women who were witnessing the count.

Apparently, their presence was embarrassing to the professional election thieves. Election Judge (and deputy sheriff) Karl Neil, pistol on hip, ordered Mrs H. A. Vestal and five other women to leave the polls. "Get out!" said Neil.

The women stood their ground. "We have a right to watch you count the ballots," one said.

Go on, get out of here!" shouted Neil, and the women filed out, protesting.

This wasn't enough. Four GI's remained to keep the ballot thieves in line. They were James Edward Vestal (Mrs. Vestal's son), Charles Scott, Jr., Charley Hyde, and J. P. Cartwright.

The [Cantrell] machine had six of its bigger bicep boys there, three wearing sidearms. Deputy Neil then ordered Cartwright and Hyde to "go up in the front and sit down." They said they couldn't see the count from there. "Go on up front and sit down, you don't have to see us count 'em." snarled a muscular thug.

Cartwright said he wouldn't stay if he couldn't witness the count, so he and Hyde left. This left Vestal and Scott as the only GI watchers for Precinct 11.

When Cartwright and Hyde emerged, a roar of anger went up from the hundreds of citizens across the street. The eight or nine deputies in front of the waterworks office fingered their weapons. Charles Scott, Sr. sent word in to his son and Vestal to "come on out. We don't want you boys alone in there with those gangsters."

[/enter]GI Judge Bob Hairrell Beaten 3:15 pm[/center]

Bob Hairrell, GI judge, beaten by Minis Wilburn, officer of the election, 12 precinct, North White Street, Athens.

The First Poll Closing (Illegally)

12th Precinct, Dixie Café

3:55 pm​

The first closing come at the 12th Precinct, back of the Dixie Café and next to the county jail. The legal closing time was 4 pm. The door was locked and Sheriff Mansfield's men lifted an automobile to the sidewalk, placed it directly in front of the precinct door. Two other cars were placed across the narrow alley to block access to the area of the voting place, and sheriff's deputies, hands on their pistols, guard against entry into the area.

4:15 pm​

While GIs watched with a scowl Sheriff Mansfield and a dozen of his deputies piled into two cars and drove off to the 11th Precinct at the Water Commission office. There, deputies, with guns ready, kept all observers away from the sidewalk in front of the office, and a throng of several hundred watched silently from across the street.

Vote Counting

11th Precinct, Water Commission Office

4:20 pm​

Inside, according to stories the GIs told later, Charles Scott, Jr., and James Howard Vestal, watchers for the GI ticket, were ordered to take seats in front of the room, while the vote counting, by Cantrell men, went on at the rear. Vestal and Scott demanded that they either be permitted to see the ballots or be allowed to leave the area. The sheriff's men refused and ordered them to, "Sit down, you're staying right here." They sat down. A few minutes later, Scott told the machine politicians again that they were leaving. At this, the machine men barricaded the ex-GIs behind a counter and locked the door.

4:45 pm.​

"We jumped on the counter, climbed over it and tried to get out. The door was locked," Vestal said "and Charlie hit it with his shoulder. They were right at us and trying to slug us with knuckles and their guns. He broke the glass and we stumbled through. Charlie was cut around the shoulders. I got cut a little too, and fell down coming through the door." The door was a plate glass set in a wood frame.

A Sickening Sight

Then over a thousand people witnessed a sickening sight. Vestal who was until January of this year a first lieutenant in the army engineers corps and twice wounded in the Pacific, scrambled to his feet, blood dripping from a gash in his left hand. Scott too, picked himself up. Through the broken glass, immediately on their heels squirmed Deputy Sheriff Wendy Wise, a shiny .38 revolver poked out in front of his nose. He shouted something which was lost in the moan which went through the crowd. Women screamed; one shouted, "Oh, god, here it comes." From a long line of ex-soldiers on the sidewalk across the street came gasp's, then cries "let's go get 'em!"; "No, we got no guns, stay away from them .45s." Vestal and Scott, whether heeding Wise's orders or through quick instinct, threw their hands high above their heads and walked slowly and alone across the empty street to the refuge of the crowd. Wise leveled his revolver at their backs, then whirled with the instinct of the gunman to one side and then the other to insure against a potshot at himself from the crowd — then aimed again at the backs of the veterans. George Spurling, another deputy, popped up at Wise's side and slowly brought his pistol down in the direction of the retreating boys, aiming either at them or some of the jeering GIs on the sidewalk to which they were going. He and Wise for a few seconds gave every appearance of being trigger happy. It seemed to us, standing just across the street, that Spurling was in the act of pressing his trigger when another deputy half grabbed his arm, gave him a half-dozen swift slaps in the ribs as a signal not to fire. As Vestal and Scott completed their long, measured march, their GI comrades, boiling mad by now, cried to Wise and other deputies, "Throw down your guns and come out in the street and we'll fight you man for man.

4:50 pm​

Wise ducked back into the Water Commission Office.

4:55 pm​

But further activity was forestalled when Chief Deputy Boe Dunn drove up in a blue sedan, with two ex-soldiers, Felix Harrod, election clerk, and Tom Dooley, election judge, for the all GI ticket were, being forcibly held and transported by Dunn's group, as six men piled out. The deputies formed a cordon from the precinct to the car and Dunn himself went in and stole the ballot box. At least 15 pistols were trained on the citizens of Athens as the deputies rolled away with the ballot box. They went straight to the county jail. Several citizens broke from the crowd, shouting, "Get your guns, boys, get your guns!"

Vestal and Scott Taken To The Hospital

Vestal's wounds were treated by Dr. C.O. Foree in the physician's clinic. Two stitches were required to close the slash on his ankle. He also suffered a cut hand. Vestal was a first lieutenant in the 3rd Combat Engineers, 24th Division. He was overseas 30 months, was hit by a Jap hand grenade once and wounded by artillery fire once. "How did today compare to fighting overseas?" he was asked. He was quiet for a moment. "Well, today it made you madder than it did over there. And it was closer range."

First Violent Incident in McMinn County

Kennedy's Essankay Tire Company

5:10 pm​

W. O. Kennedy, Republican election commissioner and crowd of veterans walked to Kennedy's garage and tire shop near the center of town. Two deputies, with badges and sidearms walked toward the crowd. This was a mistake as this was most assuredly seen in the abstract a representation of a decade of tyranny and oppression of a despotic government, the Cantrell political machine. The crowd was quickly inflamed at the arrogance of the two deputies and suddenly there were yells of "Kill them, kill them" sounded in the streets. The deputies drew their guns and prepared to shoot down anyone who came near.

It is the trained and instinctive nature of veterans of war to react offensively at such an oppressive act committed by the deputies. Otto Kennedy and his civilian task force accepted the challenge. They rushed across the street and overwhelmed the two deputies before the pair could choose a target for their fire.

W. O. Kennedy, his two brothers and several other furious vets attacked the deputies with a proper assault and battery upon their faces and ripping their clothes.

The crowds packing the main square heard of an impending attack by the sheriff's force and rushed to the scene.

First False Alarm

Cries of "here they come" sent the onlookers scattering wildly for shelter but the garage garrison stood firm and waited for the assault. When no more gunmen appeared alter five minutes the crowd came out from the hedges, homes and parked cars.

By now there were literally thousands of people — mostly men — strung along a three-block area. They were frightened people, and people who were ashamed of their town's politics, but something in the attitude of these embattled veterans held them.

Second Alarm Netted Two More Deputies

The veterans waited. The mob huddled back against the store as soon as the shot came. Another thunderous warning, "Here they come," emptied the streets. It was an anti-climax. There were no onrush carloads of deputies. Only two deputies appeared.

They had guns of course. But the group at the garage had two guns now. Kennedy's rangers made short work of them as they had the first two. The second pair were marched into the garage to join the first pair. Chattanooga Times reporter Richard Rogers attempted to mingle among the crowd when he was spotted as an unrecognizable intruder by a veteran and that veteran challenged him for his business being there. The reporter identified himself and was promptly escorted into the garage were the captured deputies were. In any act of revolt there is the human nature to extract the same king of punishment upon the tyrannical proponents that they had inflicted upon the citizenry. The veteran guards over the four deputies, in using intimidation and humiliation tactics common in any war goaded any one or all the deputies to attempt anything to give justification in the veteran's desire to shoot them, saying "Go ahead, you sons of --------. I'd love to kill every --------- one of you. The reporter's escort pushed him closer to the deputies quite possibly to provide the reporter the opportunity to interview the prisoners, saying to the deputies, "Here's a reporter."

Third Alarm Nets Three More Deputies

This interview arrangement was interrupted with another alarm warning from outside. "Here they come!" The reporter's escort spun around, and ran outside again. One guard ran after him. This left the four deputies with one veteran guard and the reporter. The lone guard threatened the prisoners saying, "If those guys get in here and get me, I'll kill you first." Another yell bellowed from the street. A veteran stuck his head through the door and shouted "Watch out! They're going to rush us." The reporter ducked behind a stack of tires.

Just then there came the loudest most frightening, skin crawling roar of voices those people could emit. The reporter saw the lone guard waving one gun in his direction and upon seeing its muzzle, comparing it to the size of Chattanooga's Braided Tunnel, he jumped through the window which was behind him and the stack of tires.

Now out on the street the reporter had seen that the crowd had grown and saw one carrying a 12-gauge shotgun and another had a repeating rifle. Unexpectedly, three deputies appeared on the street. Two were overcome immediately. The third was overpowered by Otto Kennedy, throwing himself upon the larger man, shoved his own .45 against the fellow's face and the fight went out of the deputy. That was the last capture of the engagement.

Transport Seven Captured Deputies Out of Town

5:30 p.m.

The crowd remained in the streets. The veterans pleaded for volunteers to haul the deputies out of town, and one by one, citizens came forward with automobiles.

One of these was an aged gentleman who operates a hardware store near the Essankay garage. He introduced himself as Emmett Johnson. "Do you live in Athens, sir?"

"I do. And today I'm ashamed of my home. These gangsters have disgraced us. If the boys want my car they can have it. They can have anything. They should have started cleaning up on those crooks a long time ago." As the deputies lives were in grave danger they were put into cars and driven out of town. Then the crowd was told to scatter. The crowd reluctantly dispersed.

W. O. Kennedy Interviewed By Five Chattanooga Times Staff Reporters Kennedy agreed to an interview with the Chattanooga Times. Five of the Times staff drove a mile into the country to Kennedy's home. At the Kennedy home were Otto Kennedy introducing his brothers J.P. and C.O.; J.B. Adams, his son-in-law, and Frank McCracken.

Otto Kennedy revealed the deputies were out-of-towners. And one claimed he got arrested this morning on a traffic charge and instead of paying the fine they made him a deputy and gave him a gun.

Second Ballot Box Taken To Jail

6:35 pm

The sheriff's men, assisted by state highway patrolmen and city policemen removed the automobile from in front of Precinct 12 (Dixie Café) and carried the ballot box into the McMinn County bastille, where presumably, Ellis and several other GIs still were being held incommunicado. As the sheriff's men carried the box across the jailhouse lawn, they were preceded by two men armed with shotguns and followed by four more equipped with heavy-gauge shotguns and high-powered rifles. Apparently pistols, of which several hundred were on display, were not longer considered to handle the occasion.

GI's Gather At GI Headquarters

7:30 p.m.

GI's Converge On The Jail

8:45 p.m.

A crowd of about 500 armed with pistols and light rifles moved on the jail.

Battle Begins

9:00 pm

Ralph Duggan, a former Navy lieutenant commander and a leader of the ex-GI's said the crowd was "met by gun fire" and because they had "promised that the ballots would be counted as cast," they had "no choice but to meet fire with fire." Violence flared anew with GIs reported firing on the county jail. Shooting began around 9:00 pm for the first time. Sheriff Pat Mansfield Interviewed By Chattanooga Daily Times Via Telephone

10:00 pm

Sheriff Pat Mansfield breaks off telephone conversations to Chattanooga Daily Times, stating "I can't talk anymore — there's mob violence at the County Jail right now. Things are too hot here now. I haven't got time to talk to you — I'm standing in front of the door." he said hurriedly as he hung up the telephone.

Sheriff Pat Mansfield and Deputies Threaten Hostages

11:00 pm

Sheriff Pan Mansfield and deputies threatened to kill three GI hostages held within the jailhouse. The three GI hostages are Felix Harrod, Tom Dooley and Walter Ellis.

Thousands of Rounds Exchanged

11:35 pm-12:40 am

Thousands of rounds of shots were exchanged between ex-GIs and an estimated 75 deputies barricaded in the McMinn County jail. No state guardsman had arrived at 12:40. Former soldiers were pouring lead into every opening in the brick jail. The officers' returning fire was weakening. Some GIs were firing from ground level across White Street. Others were on roofs on the Power Company Building and other near-by structures.

Tennessee State Guard Mobilized?

12:00 am (midnight)

State Adj.-Gen. Hilton Butler announced that he was mobilizing the Sixth Regiment of the State Guard in connection with election violence in McMinn County. This report was later proven untrue.

GIs Cut Telephone Lines To The Jail

1:00 am

GIs cut telephone lines to the jail. The officers, inside the jail, were out of ammunition or running extremely low. Firing of the GIs included rapid bursts of 10 or more shots. Apparently they were using some automatic rifles.

Last Warning! Deputies Threaten Hostages' Lives

2:00 am

Deputies sent out last warning that they would kill three GI hostages within the jail immediately if the firing did not end.

GIs Replied With Ultimatum Of Their Own

2:20 am

GIs issued an ultimatum to the deputies to come out with hands upraised or the crowd would rush the jail.

GIs Escalate The Fight With Use of Dynamite

2:59 am

The ex-GIs went into action with demolition charges — home made, but effective. After a fourth blast had rocked the jail one of the deputies leaned from the building and shouted "Stop that blasting. We'll give up — we're dying in here. Firing continued a few moments then stopped.

The Deputies Surrendered

3:02-3:30 a.m.

The officers began filing out of the battered building. They were searched, and roughly, by the attackers and marched back into the building to be locked in cells under guard of the ex-GIs. When Wyse came out, several in the crowd surged forward and mauled him with fists and elbows before he could be returned to comparative safety of the bullet scarred jail.

Riots & Destruction Begin

3:45 a.m.

Automobiles belonging to deputy sheriffs overturned in streets, smashed and burned.

4:00 a.m. Sunrise.

Battle over. The veterans armed with rifles were patrolling the streets to maintain order by sunrise.

George Woods Concedes

5:00 a.m.

By telephone George Woods concedes GI victory.

Paul Cantrell Concedes Defeat

7:05 am

Frank Cantrell, Mayor of Etowah issued the following statement: "In behalf of my brother Paul Cantrell, I wish to concede the election to the G.I. candidates in order to prevent further shooting. (Signed) Frank Cantrell.

Deputies Released From Jail 9:00 a.m.

GIs Disperse 10:00 a.m.

Three-man Commission Elected

4:00 p.m., Saturday, Aug. 3

Three man commission chosen as governing body by mass meeting at Court House. Volunteers by hundreds offer assistance in setting up government framework.

Cleansing & Restoration

4:00 p.m. Friday to 5:00 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 3

Curious crowds mill streets as the new government cleans up "hot-spots." Beer sales banned. Town is orderly.

Rumored Biggs-Mansfield Invasion Sets GIs On Alert

9:00 p.m. Saturday

Rumor and newspaper story from Knoxville sets off high strung nerves with the report that Biggs and Mansfield will attempt to storm Athens.

1,500 Citizens Converge On Athens

9:00 pm

Fifteen hundred citizens pour into Athens with firearms to back the new government. Telephone calls from neighboring cities pledge aid if needed in defense of the town.

GIs on Patrol

7:00 p.m. Saturday Aug. 3 to Sunrise Sunday, Aug. 4

Athens is patrolled by GIs and citizens.

George Woods Returns to McMinn County Under GI Escort

4:00 p.m. Sunday, August 4

G-I CLAIM ELECTION TO OFFICE — ISSUE STATEMENT

This special announcement was hand to the Daily Post-Athenian and Radio Station WLAR at 3:02 A.M. by the Non-Partisan Candidates for immediate release shortly before the exodus of imprisoned officials in the county jail:

"The G-I election officials went to the polls unarmed to have a fair election, as Pat Mansfield promised. They were met with black-jacks and pistols.

"Several G-I officials were beaten and the ballot boxes were moved to the jail. The G-I supporters went to the jail to get these ballot boxes and were met by gunfire.

"The G-I candidates had promised that the votes would be counted as cast. They had no choice but to meet fire with fire.

"In the precincts where the G-I candidates were allowed watchers they led by three to one majorities.

"THE G-Is ARE ELECTED AND WILL SERVE AS YOUR COUNTY OFFICIALS BEGINNING SEPT. 1st, 1946."

The G-I Candidates, thus claiming election to officer are:
Knox Henry — Sheriff
Frank Carmichael — Trustee
Bill Hamby — Circuit Court Clerk
Charlie Pickle — Register of Deeds
Campaign Mgr for the G-Is was Jim Buttram.

George Woods returns to McMinn County under protection by the GI-Citizens Government.

Sheriff Mansfield Resigned

5:00 p.m. Sunday

Word is received from Nashville that Mansfield had resigned as sheriff.

George Woods Declares GI's Elected

10:00 a.m. Monday, August 5

George Woods signs election certificate declaring GIs officially McMinn County Officers.

That would be a city. We are discussing countries....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No. I'm saying countries where people vote don't need revolutions.

Iraq would disagree with you.

Well I did specify long standing. Sure forced democracies that we create have problems. Can you name some country with long standing voting rights that ever had a revolution?

Egypt.

Libya.

Venezuela.

Argentina.

Wait, you said one.

Any other challenges?

 

[Brain357]

Sounds like to me there is a CRIMINAL problem, NO? WHY make it sound like it is the GUN OWNER'S fault? Hmm?

And thanks to gun owners we have a lot more armed criminals. Sounds like they are part of the problem.

It only seems that way to those who are willfully ignorant of crime statistics over the last two to three decades and their implications relative to gun ownership, let others do their thinking for them, don't grasp the realities of human nature, and are willfully oblivious to the inherent and historic threats to liberty posed by government. In other words, it only seems that way to those who live in bubbles of naiveté and ignorance.

Got pin?

Well 232,000 guns are stolen each year. That's going from a gun owner to a criminal.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

[
OK. You go head and take the law into your own hands and let us know how it works out.

In other words, you're diametrically opposed to Popular Sovereignty, the Foundation of the Enlightenment, the Cornerstone of the United States Constitution, which is enumerated by the Ninth Amendment.


Although I do not usually quote my own books, here is a good excerpt from one of them (Common Sense - by Edward Solomon):

Part 1, Natural Rights​

One of the most ambiguously employed words in the American vernacular is the term liberal. The meaning of this word has evolved over the centuries, an evolution that has produced two separate species, species that are irreconcilable, species that are engaged in a battle for dominance, a battle which will soon force the other into extinction.

The history of the word's transformation is fascinating, for the examination of the subject provides the reader with both invaluable and essential knowledge — knowledge that is requisite to understand the very philosophical foundation of our Constitution.

Although the basic concepts of Classical Liberalism have existed since antiquity, it is best to begin this inquiry at the inception of Classical Liberalism during the Age of Enlightenment, founded by the philosopher John Locke. Although, in order to understand John Locke, we must also understand one of those men most responsible for influencing his development of Classical Liberal ideology, John Milton.

Our investigation begins with a man named John Milton and the concept of the Divine Right of Kings. The theory of Divine Right asserts that God divides men by certain distinctions, Kings and Subjects, just as God divides the human species into male and female. The King is Sovereign, exercising supreme authority in all spheres of government, in all places subject to his jurisdiction; therefore, under this doctrine, the King is endowed by the Creator with unlimited rights, for all decisions made by the King are in fact the will of God.

The Subject is inferior to the King, and must accept any edict from the King without question. The Subject only has those rights which the King permits. Those rights may be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Some Subjects will enjoy being in a privileged class (so long as they remain in favor with the King), elevating their status in both government and society, for if God can create the Distinction of King and Subject among Men, then the King, who rules by the will of God, can create the Distinction of Nobility and Commoner among the Subjects.

Central to the doctrine of Divine Right, was that no Subject may question the King, for questioning any edict of the King was equivalent to challenging the will of God. The King being Sovereign over his Subjects, both Noble and Common, can only be judged by God, or another King, as other Kings rule by the will of God. Thus the Subjects have no power, on heaven or earth, to depose of their King.

However, during the middle of the 17th Century, a man named John Milton came to challenge the legitimacy of the Divine Right doctrine itself. Milton argued that the King's authority was derived from the people, and thus the King's power is only granted to him by Popular Sovereignty. Most important is that the people derive this sovereignty from God, and that these Sovereigns have both the right and the obligation to overthrow a tyrannical King, an idea enshrined in the American Declaration of Independence.

Here the roles of King and Subject are reversed, the Subjects are Sovereign over the King; the King only rules as a privilege extended to him by the people, a privilege that can be revoked, denied or disparaged at any time. Overall, the King is a Servant to the Public, hence the term public servant.

The theory presented by John Milton was only rudimentary at best. It was from this idea that great philosophers and other writers would build upon, paving the way towards republican form of government, social contract and natural rights (the most important of the aforementioned). The first of these philosophers to whom we pay homage is John Locke, the most influential of all the Enlightenment thinkers upon the Constitution of the United States.

In the year 1689, John Locke published Two Treatises on Government, in direct response to Sir Robert Filmer's Patriarcha, a book that declared that all government is absolute monarchy, and that no man is born free. In the very beginning of Filmer's book, he states:

'Mankind is naturally endowed and born with freedom from all subjection, and at liberty to choose what form of government it please, and that the power which any one man hath over others was at first bestowed according to the discretion of the multitude' …

But howsoever this vulgar opinion [above paragraph] hath of late obtained a great reputation, yet it is not to be found in the ancient fathers and doctors of the primitive Church. It contradicts the doctrine and history of the Holy Scriptures, the constant practice of all ancient monarchies, and the very principles of the law of nature. It is hard to say whether it be more erroneous in divinity or dangerous in policy …

This desperate assertion whereby kings are made subject to the censures and deprivations of their subjects follows — as the authors of it conceive — as a necessary consequence of that former position of the supposed natural equality and freedom of mankind, and liberty to choose what form of government it please …

Secondly, I am not to question or quarrel at the rights or liberties of this or any other nation; my task is chiefly to inquire from whom these first came, not to dispute what or how many these are, but whether they were derived from the laws of natural liberty or from the grace and bounty of princes. My desire and hope is that the people of England may and do enjoy as ample privileges as any nation under heaven; the greatest liberty in the world — if it be duly considered — is for a people to live under a monarch. It is the Magna Charta of this kingdom; all other shows or pretexts of liberty are but several degrees of slavery, and a liberty only to destroy liberty.

Notice the text in bold, Sir Robert would have his readers believe that we have no rights, only privileges which are extended by the grace and goodwill of the King. Herein exists the doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings, where the King is Sovereign, and the Subjects are no more than serfs. In the words of John Locke, from the first chapter of his Treatise:

...that in a book [Patriarcha], which was to provide chains for all mankind, I should find nothing but a rope of sand, useful perhaps to such, whose skill and business it is to raise a dust, and would blind the people, the better to mislead them; but in truth not of any force to draw those into bondage, who have their eyes open, and so much sense about them, as to consider, that chains are but an ill wearing, how much care soever hath been taken to file and polish them.

The ancient strife between Classical Liberalism and Statism had been ever going, and continues to this very day. Either we are born with certain unalienable rights, bestowed upon us by the Creator, or we are born as Subjects, a distinction chosen for us by the Creator, and we exist at the mercy and grace of Kings.

You are a Statist Pig, and John Locke spits on you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Progressive" Hero:


Why I'm for the Brady Bill

By Ronald Reagan

Why I'm for the Brady Bill - NYTimes.com

"Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns.


This level of violence must be stopped. Sarah and Jim Brady are working hard to do that, and I say more power to them. If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land."

Ronald Reagan. Gun Grabber.

Remember this the next time some asswipe argues that conservatives oppose background checks.

By the way, here is the actual letter. If you read it you will discover that the Brady Bill was about background checks, not gun control.

Why I'm for the Brady Bill - NYTimes.com

Conservatives have left a huge loophole in background checks. Anybody can buy a gun without one. Not at a dealer of course, but from any private person. That's a big loophole.

That is not a loophole, asshole. It is an admission that our government is not a tyranny.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

That great patriot Sam Adams thinks people who rebel against the laws of a republic ought to be put to death -- hung.

And the Second Amendment is the Supreme Law of the Republic.

Therefore, those who are rebelling against the Second Amendment should be put to death --- via the Second Amendment.

Thanks for proving our point. Now run along.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Stats for how many crimes are prevented by guns are highly flawed.
Do guns make us safer? - CNN.com

232,000 guns are stolen each year. That's a pretty good source for crime. So are owners really doing more against or for crime? Supplying them with 232,000 guns a year is certainly helping crime.

Department of Justice Statistics:

You are far more likely to survive
a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun.

Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%



From these same studies.

Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women
defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Fact:
When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes are
successful, compared to 32% when unarmed.

Fact:
The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no
resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the
benefits are smaller: offering no resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than
resisting with a gun.

Fact:
27% of women keep a gun in the house.

Fact:
37.6 million women either own or have rapid access to guns.

Fact:
In 1966 the city of Orlando responded to a wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms
training classes to women. The number of rapes dropped by nearly 90%.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/55878NCJRS.pdf

[MENTION=43262]Brain357[/MENTION] run along now little boy.

Carrying a gun makes you far more like to be shot.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

You run along.

A study by a bunch of college kids in Pennsylvania has the same authority as the Department of Justice Statistics?

 

[Brain357]

Iraq would disagree with you.

Well I did specify long standing. Sure forced democracies that we create have problems. Can you name some country with long standing voting rights that ever had a revolution?

Egypt.

Libya.

Venezuela.

Argentina.

Wait, you said one.

Any other challenges?

I love how you guys keep ignoring the long standing part. Try again.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Don't know since WE aren't one.

I don't think you'll come up with one.

As far as I know, there has only been one Democracy in the entire history of man. That only worked because it was limited to a single city, and it quickly failed because, even on that scale, they had too many people like you around.

This retort should come with a warning label: read with caution when drinking beverages.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who says registration infringes on your right to own a gun?

The Supreme Court, and every other court in this country.

That wouldn't keep anyone from owning a gun...except criminals. Imagine if we could track how criminals get guns.

The ATF actually does a pretty good job of that. They actually say that most criminals get their guns from federally licensed dealers who don't follow the law.

Funny thing, the ATF is actually empowered to force all FFL holders to maintain records of all sales, and tracks all sales to those dealers. That means they could effectively shut most illegal firearms deals simply by enforcing the current laws.

I wonder why they even bother doing things like Fast and Furious.

 

[paperview]

[
OK. You go head and take the law into your own hands and let us know how it works out.

In other words, you're diametrically opposed to Popular Sovereignty, the Foundation of the Enlightenment, the Cornerstone of the United States Constitution, which is enumerated by the Ninth Amendment.


Although I do not usually quote my own books, here is a good excerpt from one of them (Common Sense - by Edward Solomon):

<ridiculous self-serving dribble snipped>

You are a Statist Pig, and Jon Locke spits on you.

Like I said -- OK. You go head and take the law into your own hands and let us know how it works out.

 

[westwall]

When has a long standing democracy ever had a revolution?

Don't know since WE aren't one.

I don't think you'll come up with one.

How about Rome? We are following Rome's history quite well. It too was a Republic till it's Senators and bureaucrats became so corrupt they lost the support of the people...which led to the collapse and Caesar taking over.....which led to a long run of emperors, some good, some not so good, and some just downright horrible.

There are others and they all follow the same path, an energetic republic, followed by a load of idiots who feel they are entitled to the dole while producing nothing, then a revolution followed by an imperial run that then leads to ultimate collapse....and a start over with a period of anarchy etc.

You should read some history some time. You'll be amazed at what has happened before...many, many times before. Something you progressives seem to never be aware of... For someone who claims to be so smart..... you're really ignorant.