Food for thought, II

[Wry Catcher]

Yet a troubling number of Americans seek to compel conformity and blind patriotism, and vilify those who engage in lawfull protest.

Don't conflate free speech with freedom from criticism.

Criticism is fine, calling someone a Son of a Bitch is not! We've already seen a post which went way beyond a critique; an off topic and flaming ad hominem.

Maybe he/she should be thrown in jail for calling someone a son-of-a-bitch?

Oh wait, that'd be a violation of free speech.

This ^^^ doesn't qualify as clever or even sarcasm, it's quite frankly a stupid comment. The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully.

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

 

[Wry Catcher]

Evidently, OP thinks that remarks that he considers "declasse" are not covered under freedom of speech. Maybe the guy on this thread that he reported is an example of that. His remarks are just gone. hmmmm

There are limits to free speech, and limits to my tolerance. The limits imposed by the powers that be are simple to follo: stay on topic, and don't flame are two easy to follow. Keep that in mind.

 

[edward37]

Another moron speaks..


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[Some Guy]

Don't conflate free speech with freedom from criticism.

Criticism is fine, calling someone a Son of a Bitch is not! We've already seen a post which went way beyond a critique; an off topic and flaming ad hominem.

Maybe he/she should be thrown in jail for calling someone a son-of-a-bitch?

Oh wait, that'd be a violation of free speech.

This ^^^ doesn't qualify as clever or even sarcasm, it's quite frankly a stupid comment. The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully.

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

 

[Compost]

Evidently, OP thinks that remarks that he considers "declasse" are not covered under freedom of speech. Maybe the guy on this thread that he reported is an example of that. His remarks are just gone. hmmmm

There are limits to free speech, and limits to my tolerance. The limits imposed by the powers that be are simple to follo: stay on topic, and don't flame are two easy to follow. Keep that in mind.

Two easy, indeed! Your tolerance is key. Clearly. You aren't looking for an exchange of ideas unless the personalities and opinions are right- according to your limited views. Too bad you don't see that that you aren't practicing tolerance for other people's freedom of speech, then you might wryly catch the irony of your own thread.

Still, thanks for imposing, er, explaining your limits.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear."
― Harry Truman

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
― George Washington

“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
― William O. Douglas

“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible."
― Salman Rushdie

"A sacred cow, unexamined, feeds itself and produces a whole lot of bullshit. And nobody wants that, except the people who profit by selling you bullshit. Those are the people who try to tell you that examining or criticizing the sacred cow is taboo.”
― Oliver Markus Malloy

Reassurance topic lol.

 

[Wry Catcher]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

Yep, this should be posted on every college campus in the country.

And high school, for that matter. Get 'em young.

There's nothing wrong with allowing speech we don't like.
..

I agree. But we are a nation of laws, and the freedom of speech and expression have limits.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Criticism is fine, calling someone a Son of a Bitch is not! We've already seen a post which went way beyond a critique; an off topic and flaming ad hominem.

Maybe he/she should be thrown in jail for calling someone a son-of-a-bitch?

Oh wait, that'd be a violation of free speech.

This ^^^ doesn't qualify as clever or even sarcasm, it's quite frankly a stupid comment. The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully.

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

I was clear in my response, and your effort to spin my comment is dishonest. I wrote, "The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully".

I stand by that remark; Trump's remark is not criticism, and anyone who has taken a college level course would understand; it is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy which you are free to look up.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Evidently, OP thinks that remarks that he considers "declasse" are not covered under freedom of speech. Maybe the guy on this thread that he reported is an example of that. His remarks are just gone. hmmmm

There are limits to free speech, and limits to my tolerance. The limits imposed by the powers that be are simple to follo: stay on topic, and don't flame are two easy to follow. Keep that in mind.

Two easy, indeed! Your tolerance is key. Clearly. You aren't looking for an exchange of ideas unless the personalities and opinions are right- according to your limited views. Too bad you don't see that that you aren't practicing tolerance for other people's freedom of speech, then you might wryly catch the irony of your own thread.

Still, thanks for imposing, er, explaining your limits.

Thanks so much for sharing. See my post above, I wrote it in simple prose just for you.

 

[whitehall]

Why do we need to be lectured about the free speech clause in the 1st Amendment by the left when kids in college can be kicked out for uttering a banned word and every conservative speaker has been the victim of assault on a college campus one or numerous times in their careers.? I'd say that an apology rather than quotes from Indian born authors would be a sign that the crazy angry left is ready to enter the 21st century.

 

[Some Guy]

Maybe he/she should be thrown in jail for calling someone a son-of-a-bitch?

Oh wait, that'd be a violation of free speech.

This ^^^ doesn't qualify as clever or even sarcasm, it's quite frankly a stupid comment. The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully.

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

I was clear in my response, and your effort to spin my comment is dishonest. I wrote, "The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully".

I stand by that remark; Trump's remark is not criticism, and anyone who has taken a college level course would understand; it is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy which you are free to look up.

Yet it's still free speech. So, i'm just wondering why you started a thread with some great quotes about free speech and the importance of it, then bring up Trump. Unsolicited, no less, in response to a comment not directly made at you.

One might decipher from this that you're looking for any reason to profess your undying hate for Donald Trump.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This ^^^ doesn't qualify as clever or even sarcasm, it's quite frankly a stupid comment. The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully.

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

I was clear in my response, and your effort to spin my comment is dishonest. I wrote, "The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully".

I stand by that remark; Trump's remark is not criticism, and anyone who has taken a college level course would understand; it is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy which you are free to look up.

Yet it's still free speech. So, i'm just wondering why you started a thread with some great quotes about free speech and the importance of it, then bring up Trump. Unsolicited, no less, in response to a comment not directly made at you.

One might decipher from this that you're looking for any reason to profess your undying hate for Donald Trump.

I don't hate Trump, but I don't like him and find his lack of class an embarrassment. I'm not going to explain myself again, he has every right to express his opinion, as long as he wants. That he is a liar, a bully and worse is something you excuse(?) (admire?), There are limits to free speech and my criticism in no way censors him, my point is to make people like you think, and in that I know I'm not always successful.

 

[Marion Morrison]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear."
― Harry Truman

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
― George Washington

“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
― William O. Douglas

“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible."
― Salman Rushdie

"A sacred cow, unexamined, feeds itself and produces a whole lot of bullshit. And nobody wants that, except the people who profit by selling you bullshit. Those are the people who try to tell you that examining or criticizing the sacred cow is taboo.”
― Oliver Markus Malloy

^That's a good OP, Y U so leftist, though?

 

[Some Guy]

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

I was clear in my response, and your effort to spin my comment is dishonest. I wrote, "The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully".

I stand by that remark; Trump's remark is not criticism, and anyone who has taken a college level course would understand; it is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy which you are free to look up.

Yet it's still free speech. So, i'm just wondering why you started a thread with some great quotes about free speech and the importance of it, then bring up Trump. Unsolicited, no less, in response to a comment not directly made at you.

One might decipher from this that you're looking for any reason to profess your undying hate for Donald Trump.

I don't hate Trump, but I don't like him and find his lack of class an embarrassment. I'm not going to explain myself again, he has every right to express his opinion, as long as he wants. That he is a liar, a bully and worse is something you excuse(?) (admire?), There are limits to free speech and my criticism in no way censors him, my point is to make people like you think, and in that I know I'm not always successful.

I can't do anything about Trump's rhetoric, which is deplorable most of the time. How can i excuse it when i have no authority (rightfully so) to do anything other than vote for someone else in 2020? I certainly don't admire it. What do i have to gain by bitching to no end about it? Other than making myself unhappy and frustrated, nothing.

How are you making people think by calling Donald Trump a bully and a liar? By that definition, about 100 million hate-fueled people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to get all worked up by what Trump says are making people "think" as well

 

[Thinker101]

Yep. So, would you prefer to see some governmental lever be pulled to remove him from office for being a bully? Or do you actually believe those quotes you posted in the OP?

Nice try, next time you try to build a straw man, don't use wet straw and dress it in asbestos. I did not mention the lever of impeachment, you suggested it, not I.

Trump is an embarrassment, a bully, inept, incompetent and a liar. None of that is necessarily a high crime or a misdemeanor. He is, as I posted in this response and in the one to which you responded an embarrassment as well as an empty suit.

We will know if he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors if and only if an unfettered investigation is allowed to continue, and to follow the evidence already uncovered, and interview those under oath and under penalty of perjury for lying.

BTW:

"President Trump must sit for seven hours of questioning in the defamation case filed by a former contestant on his reality TV show, a judge ruled Tuesday — but it’s unclear if he’ll get grilled about other women’s allegations of sexual assault and harassment.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecter ordered that Trump be deposed by Jan. 31 and told lawyers on both sides to submit written arguments on whether Summer Zervos’ lawyer can ask him about the other accusers."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/trump-must-sit-for-deposition-in-zervos-defamation-case-judge/

I said that free speech doesn't equal freedom from criticism, and you said "but Trunp called someone a son of bitch!" I asked if that meant he should be removed from office and you're saying no but Trump is a meanie anyway.

Do I have that straight? If so, why even bring up Trump with regard to free speech? What's the purpose other than needing to profess your hate for Trump?

I was clear in my response, and your effort to spin my comment is dishonest. I wrote, "The President called a citizen a Son of a Bitch is not illegal, but coming from The President of the United States it is proof Trump is déclassé", as well as a bully".

I stand by that remark; Trump's remark is not criticism, and anyone who has taken a college level course would understand; it is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy which you are free to look up.

Yet it's still free speech. So, i'm just wondering why you started a thread with some great quotes about free speech and the importance of it, then bring up Trump. Unsolicited, no less, in response to a comment not directly made at you.

One might decipher from this that you're looking for any reason to profess your undying hate for Donald Trump.

I don't hate Trump, but I don't like him and find his lack of class an embarrassment. I'm not going to explain myself again, he has every right to express his opinion, as long as he wants. That he is a liar, a bully and worse is something you excuse(?) (admire?), There are limits to free speech and my criticism in no way censors him, my point is to make people like you think, and in that I know I'm not always successful.

Imagine that, now you know how some of us felt about Obama.

 

[dblack]

For me, this sums up freedom of speech best.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire

If only this principle was practiced as often as preached.

 

[TemplarKormac]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

So, do I, as a conservative, have the right to tell you things you don't want to hear? Or am I just posting "idiot grams" as you call them? You shouldn't tout that quote if you aren't willing to live by it.

You routinely disagree with me on many issues, but you berate anyone who disagrees with you. You try to sound objective when you clearly aren't, when you're obviously biased towards one ideal or another.

I added a quote to my sig the other day, that has had a profound impact on how I view other people and their opinions.

"Emotions tell you what you believe, they do not tell you what is true."

When you don't want to hear something someone has to say, those are your emotions and beliefs telling you to reject reason outright and refuse to give someone of an opposite belief a fair hearing.

I find this thread to be rather ironic coming from you. You, like most of the leftists on this board base the majority of your arguments on emotion, not reason. You want us to feel that your argument is true, instead of verifying it is true. If there's one thing I cannot stand, it is people who try to manipulate the emotions of others for sake of argument. Or for a personal/political agenda.

I could go on and on, but it's 1 AM in the morning, and I have more late night gaming to do.

Later.

 

[Marion Morrison]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

So, do I, as a conservative, have the right to tell you things you don't want to hear? Or am I just posting "idiot grams" as you call them. You shouldn't tout that quote if you aren't willing to live by it.

Pretty sure he doesn't incorporate many of those ideals into his daily life.

 

[TemplarKormac]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

So, do I, as a conservative, have the right to tell you things you don't want to hear? Or am I just posting "idiot grams" as you call them. You shouldn't tout that quote if you aren't willing to live by it.

Pretty sure he doesn't incorporate many of those ideals into his daily life.

Well, his behavior on this board is a clear indicator of that.

 

[Mac1958]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

Yep, this should be posted on every college campus in the country.

And high school, for that matter. Get 'em young.

There's nothing wrong with allowing speech we don't like.
..

I agree. But we are a nation of laws, and the freedom of speech and expression have limits.

Yeah, "consequences". Say the wrong thing and we'll get you.

We'll leverage our Freedom of Speech to stop you from exercising yours.

That's not freedom of expression. That's a cynical perversion of it, a mockery.
.