Former NSA/CIA Chief: Why Armed Forces Can't Legally Obey Trump

[Agit8r]

What's with all the antisemitism all of a sudden?

 

[OKTexas]

Like a President would order the entire military to waterboard people. The people who do waterboarding do it for the love of America, and have never needed to be ordered to do such. Asshole There were decent people in those buildings, something that you will never understand as you have never met one.

Excuse me dildo

I love America , but would NEVER extract a false confession using waterboarding.


.

Water boarding lead us to OBL's courier and eventually to OBL himself. Nothing false about that.

Link, please.

Even if true , the evidence shows that waterboarding typically yields false confessions.

.

Panetta: Waterboarding Produced Some Leads Used to Get bin Laden

"It was not torture, or cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama Bin Laden."

Sen. John McCain


.

You believe who ever you want, I'll go with the Director of the CIA at the time. I think he was in the best position to know.

 

[Anathema]

"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act."

Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA and CIA, thinks some of presidential candidate Donald Trump's campaign promises are so unlawful that the U.S. Armed Forces could not follow them as orders.

These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target the families of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action.

"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act," Hayden said Friday during an appearance on "Real Time with Bill Maher." "You are required not to follow an unlawful order that would be in violation of all the international laws of armed conflict."

Hayden added that he would be "incredibly concerned" if Trump followed through with his campaign promises as president.

Former CIA Head Explains Why Armed Forces Can't Legally Obey Trump

Wow, this would create a very scary scenario for American armed forces - and America.

ANY ANERICAN that puts INTERNATIONAL LAW ahead of the good of AMERICA needs to be skinned alive and dipped in lemon juice.

don't be so stupid...

it's not 'international law', the Geneva convention is a USA CONSTITUTIONAL TREATY, that the USA passed thru 2/3's vote of congress, with the President signing.....just as the Constitution requires....

IT IS U.S. Constitutional LAW and it is binding...

I place no value or power in agreements with our enemies. Never have and never will.

 

[Lakhota]

"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act."

Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA and CIA, thinks some of presidential candidate Donald Trump's campaign promises are so unlawful that the U.S. Armed Forces could not follow them as orders.

These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target the families of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action.

"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act," Hayden said Friday during an appearance on "Real Time with Bill Maher." "You are required not to follow an unlawful order that would be in violation of all the international laws of armed conflict."

Hayden added that he would be "incredibly concerned" if Trump followed through with his campaign promises as president.

Former CIA Head Explains Why Armed Forces Can't Legally Obey Trump

Wow, this would create a very scary scenario for American armed forces - and America.

ANY ANERICAN that puts INTERNATIONAL LAW ahead of the good of AMERICA needs to be skinned alive and dipped in lemon juice.

don't be so stupid...

it's not 'international law', the Geneva convention is a USA CONSTITUTIONAL TREATY, that the USA passed thru 2/3's vote of congress, with the President signing.....just as the Constitution requires....

IT IS U.S. Constitutional LAW and it is binding...

I place no value or power in agreements with our enemies. Never have and never will.

Yep, and Native Americans can attest to that.

 

[IsaacNewton]

A couple of years ago Bill Clinton's National Security adviser became a common thief to protect the administration. I expect former political hack Hayden is cut from the same cloth.

Michael Hayden/Elmer Fudd

He looks like the dad on That 70s Show.

I saw this guy on PBS. He was pretty lucent.

 

[Anathema]

Yep, and Native Americans can attest to that.

Always treat your enemy as an enemy - Sun Zhu

One side understood that and the ither side didn't.

 

[blackhawk]

The Attorney General and Justice Departemnt would decide if those acts are legal and Constitutional.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

 

[Care4all]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

uhhhhh, if memory serves, the GC treaties have stipulations on how to handle people who did not sign the treaty as well...

 

[Lakhota]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

We may call them terrorists - they may call themselves an army.

 

[bripat9643]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

uhhhhh, if memory serves, the GC treaties have stipulations on how to handle people who did not sign the treaty as well...

Yes they did: execution on the battlefield.

 

[bripat9643]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

We may call them terrorists - they may call themselves an army.

It doesn't matter what they call themselves. You can call yourself a patriot, but we all know better.

 

[Dragonlady]

Wow, they are getting desperate. It's a lot of fun to watch.

It is true that if Trump gave an unlawful order to torture, the military would be duty bound to disobey that order.

They didn't disobey when the Bush Administration ordered torture.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

I believe Trump can just fire them if they feel his orders are unconstitutional. I'm cool with that.

 

[SmokeALib]

You limp-wristed Dims will do anything to destroy this country. Fuckin idiots.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

We may call them terrorists - they may call themselves an army.

Doesn't matter (unless they are captured by other terrorists) the GC defines terrorist as essentially an ununiformed combatant or spy. Unfortunately the UCMJ and usual ROE are not so draconian. I expect the President as CinC can change the ROE; not so sure about the UCMJ, but maybe he'll have a pen and a telephone.

 

[ZackB]

The op is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. It borders on lunacy. Go back to the woods and dwell in your tee pee.

 

[Bassman007]

I believe Trump can just fire them if they feel his orders are unconstitutional. I'm cool with that.

Hayden can be jailed as a terrorist, for directing or inciting military members not to follow orders of any kind,

He could also be waterboarded as a terrorist for doing such.

 

[Bassman007]

Wow, they are getting desperate. It's a lot of fun to watch.

It is true that if Trump gave an unlawful order to torture, the military would be duty bound to disobey that order.

They didn't disobey when the Bush Administration ordered torture.

Bush did not have to order waterboarding, and all waterboarders were volunteers, and there are still just as many volunteers today as then.

 

[Bassman007]

"These include Trump's claim that people deserve to be waterboarded even if it doesn't work and that he would target thefamilies of terrorists. The internationally recognized Geneva Convention bars such action."

Untrue. Terrorists are specifically NOT protected as POWs under the Geneva convention and may be summarily executed.
Terrorists were not signatories of the convention and therefore cannot claim it's protections..
Terrorists make no pretense of abiding by any rules of war and have no right to expect decent treatment.
Karma's a bitch.

Terrorist target families of Americans, why not show them what they are?