Geoffrey Fieger is Going After Oxford School District

[beautress]

Not every parent will homeschool. Many, many will not. Ethan Crumbley's parents definitely would not have. When you all get your wish and the public schools implode, what happens to him?

"Wish?" Try the word "suggestion." Wishfulness is childish. Here at USMB I see people from the standpoint of reasoning, and not personal jabs to politicize a sincere person's POV.

He doesn't make himself the cause for taxes to go through the ceiling because he shoots himself in the foot. People who survived his maniacal revulsion to the lives of the dead will spend a lot of the rest of their lives on a human brain physician's couch to help them understand their innate value, the importance of obedience to worthy precepts, but most of all forgiving the horror they experienced by losing 4 of their friends, one of whom was a veritable hero for the intervention he tried to make to stop the madness.

 

[SweetSue92]

He doesn't make himself the cause for taxes to go through the ceiling because he shoots himself in the foot. People who survived his maniacal revulsion to the lives of the dead will spend a lot of the rest of their lives on a human brain physician's couch to help them understand their innate value, the importance of obedience to worthy precepts, but most of all forgiving the horror they experienced by losing 4 of their friends, one of whom was a veritable hero for the intervention he tried to make to stop the madness.

Right, you couldn't have saved yourself all this typing and said he didn't shoot up the school. Because there is no school. So what: he doesn't go to school? Private schools won't have him. He sits at home and stews in his own maniacal fantasies so what: he can shoot up a grocery store? A mall? What is the endgame here, in your Homeschool Utopian view?

I get treatises on how wonderful it will be when public schools collapse and the wonders of homeschooling, but there's a lot of pie in the sky here. People forget the era of "street urchins". Are we going there again? Or what?

 

[SweetSue92]

"Wish?" Try the word "suggestion." Wishfulness is childish. Here at USMB I see people from the standpoint of reasoning, and not personal jabs to politicize a sincere person's POV.

He doesn't make himself the cause for taxes to go through the ceiling because he shoots himself in the foot. People who survived his maniacal revulsion to the lives of the dead will spend a lot of the rest of their lives on a human brain physician's couch to help them understand their innate value, the importance of obedience to worthy precepts, but most of all forgiving the horror they experienced by losing 4 of their friends, one of whom was a veritable hero for the intervention he tried to make to stop the madness.

You are simply saying "If there's no school he wouldn't shoot up the school, with all the tragic aftermath." I'm a teacher. I know Oxford students and teachers. I'm local here. So you really, really do not have to tell me about the aftermath. Really. Do not.

I'm asking you in a world where Ethan Crumbley is not accepted into private schools, and his parents are not homeschooling, what happens to him? Homeschoolers are very eager to recommend private/homeschooling to all but I am here to tell you, as a public school teacher, that no small minority of our children will NEVER be accepted into current private schools and their parents will not homeschool.

What of them? Street urchins?

 

[beautress]

Right, you couldn't have saved yourself all this typing and said he didn't shoot up the school. Because there is no school. So what: he doesn't go to school? Private schools won't have him. He sits at home and stews in his own maniacal fantasies so what: he can shoot up a grocery store? A mall? What is the endgame here, in your Homeschool Utopian view?

I get treatises on how wonderful it will be when public schools collapse and the wonders of homeschooling, but there's a lot of pie in the sky here. People forget the era of "street urchins". Are we going there again? Or what?

"Homeschool utopian view?" How about using a light switch several times a day and knowing who put it there with his blood, sweat and tears hundreds of times over? Perhaps you are unacquainted with an America whose evenings were either dim or smelled of wax, coal, unrefined oil, or even burned animal dung. I shall not apologize for having the 44-year joy of fellowship with an electrical engineer whose life was dedicated to keeping power outages to a minimum for hospitals and the public at large, not to mention neither lost time accidents nor highwire repair deaths on his watch as the icing on his cake of a career. He even made sure his lucky wife knew who Thomas Edison was and did all he could for the safety of 500 men, dedication to his religion, his daily fight with a loss of the use of his arm to childhood polio, and dozens of instances of bettering the spirits of other people with his uncommon sense of humor. Being treated like a queen for life has certain advantages which I humbly am grateful for and daily ask God to help me not be arrogant about nor insufferable to assorted human beings who act like pirhanas/stalkers.... <giggle>

 

[SweetSue92]

"Homeschool utopian view?" How about using a light switch several times a day and knowing who put it there with his blood, sweat and tears hundreds of times over? Perhaps you are unacquainted with an America whose evenings were either dim or smelled of wax, coal, unrefined oil, or even burned animal dung. I shall not apologize for having the 44-year joy of fellowship with an electrical engineer whose life was dedicated to keeping power outages to a minimum for hospitals and the public at large, not to mention neither lost time accidents nor highwire repair deaths on his watch as the icing on his cake of a career. He even made sure his lucky wife knew who Thomas Edison was and did all he could for the safety of 500 men, dedication to his religion, his daily fight with a loss of the use of his arm to childhood polio, and dozens of instances of bettering the spirits of other people with his uncommon sense of humor. Being treated like a queen for life has certain advantages which I humbly am grateful for and daily ask God to help me not be arrogant about. <giggle>

That's nice for you. You still have no answers as to what society will do with Ethan Crumbleys and no public schools. Aside from that, I teach in a school with approx. 400 students. A rough estimate is perhaps 25 of them have some dx of autism spectrum disorder. That is not counting ADHD, obsessive compulsive disorder and various other behavior and learning disorders. Any answers for those? Will parents homeschool these children? Will private schools take them?

Or just more waxing on about how homeschools work in LIMITED circumstances, which I acknowledge?

 

[beautress]

That's nice for you. You still have no answers as to what society will do with Ethan Crumbleys and no public schools. Aside from that, I teach in a school with approx. 400 students. A rough estimate is perhaps 25 of them have some dx of autism spectrum disorder. That is not counting ADHD, obsessive compulsive disorder and various other behavior and learning disorders. Any answers for those? Will parents homeschool these children? Will private schools take them?

Or just more waxing on about how homeschools work in LIMITED circumstances, which I acknowledge?

I am only one voice of well over three hundred million Americans, dear.

 

[SweetSue92]

I am only one voice of well over three hundred million Americans, dear.

I would take one voice of any anti-public school activist or pro-homeschooler, anywhere. They are very vocal about "abolishing" the public schools but when you drill down---nothing. No answers. Radio silence.

Just like on this thread. I guess I'm to glean that yes, these folks would be happy with street urchin gangs? Okay. Don't complain then when they are roving and doing criminal gang things. *shrug*

 

[beagle9]

I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, but you're asking school personnel to do this with underage minors and on no evidence.

"Yeah, we sent him home. We suspended him."

"Why?"

"He's creepy. Just a feeling we had."

That doesn't work either, valid or not valid.

Trust me, if a kid is having problem's then it's not that hard to spot, then the building of a case should start quietly, where as you put the kid on a potential watch list in your head, and you begin looking for signs based upon a talent that you might be gifted with in which tell's you that this one is to be watched, and listened out for. People have these talent's and skills, and it has been this way forever, but the leftist have all but taken the tools away in order not to offend someone or a group of people that seem to always need the leftist to coddle them.

It's a breaking down of the system by robbing the tool shed in the mind, and leaving it feckless and worthless when it comes to keeping people safe, and running things correctly.

 

[Mac-7]

I don't have to "give you" anything. You're wrong, and near as I can tell, you're often wrong. You won't admit it; you get nothing from me.

I have a way to protect students in the classroom and you dont

 

[Mac-7]

I will step up to the plate on that one in a word a lot of lefties hate most passionately because they have not devised a way to squelch money out of anyone else: "homeschooling." Our pilgrims did homeschooling whilst building their first log cabins; Thomas Alva Edison's mother did it, and he grew up to light up the world because she taught him the virtue of knowing how to think, the virtue of faithfulness to fulfill his task, and the mental acuity of patient observation and correct interpretation of what exactly what he was dealing with from notes he took on those insights. Back to the basics when folly and theatre governs the fools who make lies, mockery, theft and murder their "normal."

You don't have to take the "normals" of those who are sneaky about their "new" normal which is, also in a word witchcraft.

edit: added 2 words for clarification.

I strongly support homeschooling as well as school choice

But the teachers unions hate those ideas

 

[beagle9]

Not every parent will homeschool. Many, many will not. Ethan Crumbley's parents definitely would not have. When you all get your wish and the public schools implode, what happens to him?

What happens to him ? Well he is going to prison to never see the light of day again hopefully (make an example of). Now if you are talking about future crumbly's, then they can graduate the 6th grade before they get stupid, and join the work force or a preparation program that helps troubled teens to get busy working their reckless energy off before they go stupid.

To summarize.

Graduates six grade because he or she just can't get along in school, and especially with the other student's when the final expulsion comes into play.

At this point the parent's are responsible for finding him or her an alternate schooling experience, job etc, and a school they'll pay dearly for because they wouldn't do their parenting jobs......

If that doesn't work out by the time he or she is 16 years old, then they would be required to enter an educational work preparedness program, otherwise one that is just like going to school, but only that it will ultimately place them into a field of work that will help to burn off their reckless energy, and hopefully keep them tired out so they won't have time to ponder killing people or causing trouble wherever they might go in life. All kinds of ways to scale a fish, but there is always the one single right way to do it also. But if that way don't work, then it's on to the alternative's.

 

[Mac-7]

The kid is responsible for his own actions

All the kids grow up in this toxic, insane, sex obsessed, upsidedown liberal culture

They all have mental problems to some degree but thankfully only a few turn onto mass murderers

Send him to jail for the test of his life

and then strip city hall and other public buildings of police protection and devote it to the schools instead

 

[White 6]

I disagree. The parents refused to take their kid with them, thus the school has a responsibility to call CPS to take him to a facility for help.

They didn't.

Not their responsibility, as there was no way to know it was an emergency situation. The contacted the parents, quickly scheduled a conference with them at the school to make them aware of what the kid was writing and drawing, but not as alarmist, just doing their responsibility to make them aware, make recommendation (possibly) and work with the parents for the good of the kid. Parents dropped the ball (again) not sharing, the kid had been given a weapon and certainly not that the weapon was left unsecured. Nothing has been said to indicate, the parents or school officials in that meeting were aware of what the kid had shared on public media. Without that knowledge, no crises was known to exist, nor reason to search the kid's backpack, and having the parents stated belief the boy should stay in school, without further knowledge, the school had no reason to take further action of suspension, as the kid had harmed no one.

 

[SweetSue92]

Trust me, if a kid is having problem's then it's not that hard to spot, then the building of a case should start quietly, where as you put the kid on a potential watch list in your head, and you begin looking for signs based upon a talent that you might be gifted with in which tell's you that this one is to be watched, and listened out for. People have these talent's and skills, and it has been this way forever, but the leftist have all but taken the tools away in order not to offend someone or a group of people that seem to always need the leftist to coddle them.

It's a breaking down of the system by robbing the tool shed in the mind, and leaving it feckless and worthless when it comes to keeping people safe, and running things correctly.

Watch list in WHOSE head? You realize in secondary school he would have 6-8 different teachers per day, possibly changing every semester. How should teachers, who teach 150+ students per day, ALSO potentially rotating every semester, get this "watch list" going?

This is all based on your idea that "people have these talents and skills"? Did you really just get this from a movie

 

[SweetSue92]

I have a way to protect students in the classroom and you dont

You cannot admit that your protection SUCKS.

Suddenly run of the mill conservatives looove them some "protection", and nothing is too intrusive or extreme. Is that going to work like it does for Covid? How does that protection work, really?

 

[SweetSue92]

I strongly support homeschooling as well as school choice

But the teachers unions hate those ideas

I am not opposed to either, and in some cases they are just the ticket. But you NEVER support public schools, even if parents will not homeschool and/or private schools will not accept students. Right?

So what? Street urchin gangs here we come? I'm trying to figure out what the answer is here.

 

[ClaireH]

It’s going to come down to evidence about what went on in the meeting between the parents and school counselor (one article implied there were two counselors while another wrote just one who met with the parents).

Relevant comments from the police station that were reported: why didn’t the school use their safety officer to do a risk evaluation to access the student’s status prior to being released back into the classroom? Reportedly, this was something the school had set up with the local police precinct but they didn’t go that route. I lack detailed knowledge so I’m not blaming the school counselor without knowing what really played out, step by step. She could’ve ask someone else for advice in the office (vice principal or another staffer) idk, and was told to forego the risk assessment without more evidence of a potential safety risk.

One thing is clear, the parents knew their kid had access to a gun and did not relay that during that meeting! Wrong, major fail, what were they thinking? That could have stopped the tragic outcome right there.

Added thought: Had the school contacted the safety officer to conduct a student risk evaluation that action alone would have cleared the school.

 

[SweetSue92]

What happens to him ? Well he is going to prison to never see the light of day again hopefully (make an example of). Now if you are talking about future crumbly's, then they can graduate the 6th grade before they get stupid, and join the work force or a preparation program that helps troubled teens to get busy working their reckless energy off before they go stupid.

To summarize.

Graduates six grade because he or she just can't get along in school, and especially with the other student's when the final expulsion comes into play.

At this point the parent's are responsible for finding him or her an alternate schooling experience, job etc, and a school they'll pay dearly for because they wouldn't do their parenting jobs......

If that doesn't work out by the time he or she is 16 years old, then they would be required to enter an educational work preparedness program, otherwise one that is just like going to school, but only that it will ultimately place them into a field of work that will help to burn off their reckless energy, and hopefully keep them tired out so they won't have time to ponder killing people or causing trouble wherever they might go in life. All kinds of ways to scale a fish, but there is always the one single right way to do it also. But if that way don't work, then it's on to the alternative's.

This is a mess, both grammatically (your misuse of apostrophes is enough to make anyone cry) and logically. At the end there you say "All kinds of ways to scale a fish, but there is always the one single right way to do it also."

That is logically inconsistent. The last sentence just seals the deal. And I'm sorry, but if you can't be logically consistent on so small a thing, I don't believe you are capable of understanding the complexity of schooling.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not their responsibility, as there was no way to know it was an emergency situation. The contacted the parents, quickly scheduled a conference with them at the school to make them aware of what the kid was writing and drawing, but not as alarmist, just doing their responsibility to make them aware, make recommendation (possibly) and work with the parents for the good of the kid. Parents dropped the ball (again) not sharing, the kid had been given a weapon and certainly not that the weapon was left unsecured. Nothing has been said to indicate, the parents or school officials in that meeting were aware of what the kid had shared on public media. Without that knowledge, no crises was known to exist, nor reason to search the kid's backpack, and having the parents stated belief the boy should stay in school, without further knowledge, the school had no reason to take further action of suspension, as the kid had harmed no one.

These folks will be the very first to moan, whine and complain when kids who draw a pics of video games are turned over to CPS, suspended, and forced out of schools.

 

[SweetSue92]

It’s going to come down to evidence about what went on in the meeting between the parents and school counselor (one article implied there were two counselors while another wrote just one who met with the parents).

Relevant comments from the police station that were reported: why didn’t the school use their safety officer to do a risk evaluation to access the student’s status prior to being released back into the classroom? Reportedly, this was something the school had set up with the local police precinct but they didn’t go that route. I lack detailed knowledge so I’m not blaming the school counselor without knowing what really played out, step by step. She could’ve ask someone else for advice in the office (vice principal or another staffer) idk, and was told to forego the risk assessment without more evidence of a potential safety risk.

One thing is clear, the parents knew their kid had access to a gun and did not relay that during that meeting! Wrong, major fail, what were they thinking? That could have stopped the tragic outcome right there.

Added thought: Had the school contacted the safety officer to conduct a student risk evaluation that action alone would have cleared the school.

Thank you for this reasonable response. Seriously.

The student was found looking up ammo on his phone or the computer the day before. Okay. Did the counseling office KNOW this? Who knew this? The parents knew, but did the teacher report it to the counselor's office, or contact parents directly?

On the day of the shooting, one of his teachers noticed his disturbing drawings, took pics on her phone and sent him to the counseling office. By the time he was there, he had altered the drawing and said he was interested in video game development and it was a pic of a video game. NO WAY the teacher texted or had any comms with the counseling office; he/she is TEACHING and trusts them to handle it.

The.

Kid.

LIED.

The counselor STILL called an "emergency" meeting with the parents. It went so poorly they refused to take their son home, *knowing* they had bought him a gun, *knowing* he had looked up ammo on his phone the day before.

But, somehow, this is still the school's fault and we must forthwith TSA all schools. Say my FELLOW CONSERVATIVES.

Okay.

Right.