Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[Againsheila]

Using your logic, we should all be able to prevent anyone from speaking out loud about anything we find offensive.

Um, was that aimed at me? I sure hope not. If so, I think we got our wires crossed.

What's the matter? Boedicca spoke her mind. You gotta problem with free speech?

Absolutely not, which is why I was confused.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

But Senior Citizens Inc. officials said Friday the meals they are contracted by the city to provide to Ed Young visitors are mostly covered with federal money, which ushers in the burden of separating church and state.

On Thursday, the usual open prayer before meals at the center was traded in for a moment of silence.

The dilemma is being hashed out by the Port Wentworth city attorney, said Mayor Glenn "Pig" Jones.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said.

"We can't scoff at their rules," he said of federal authorities. "It's a part of the operational guidelines."

Rutherford said the moment of silence was introduced to protect that funding. He said although the change may have been misinterpreted, perhaps his company could have done a better job selling it.

"It's interpreted that we're telling people that they can't pray, but we aren't saying that," he said. "We're asking them to pray to themselves. Have that moment of silence."

Mayor Jones said he was outraged by the change and has promised to find a solution.

Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

What a sad state of affairs our country is in.

What do y'all think? Should anyone who receives meals funded by the government, have their right to pray before the meal stripped from them?

The lovers of big government are afraid of losing federal monies. That is why they have taken the route they have.

There is no violation of the First Amendment if the seniors say a prayer aloud. The First Amendment is very clear.

It is all very pathetic. If there is one thing I can't stand worse than a traitor, it is a political coward. And in my opinion, our Republic is filled with them.

 

[Sky Dancer]

All this brouhaha over one moment of silence. It's sad.

 

[Againsheila]

Bingo.

Nice try, but no. I said I seldom say grace, not that I never say grace. Believe as you will, you do not have the right not to hear me say grace.

Say your grace silently and respectfully or say it in your home or church. Don't make me say it with you. If we both pray in silence there is connection and respect.

I have the right to free expression of my religion and you don't have the right to stop me. If there's more than one person saying grace, we say it aloud, that's just the way it is. You can sit by yourself and pray to whomever you want but you have no right to dictate that my friends and I can't pray simply because it offends you.

Thanksgiving at my house, we say grace, and then we each come up with something for which we are grateful. Now, if for some reason we eat Thanksgiving dinner out<and I'd really like to have a Thanksgiving dinner I didn't have to cook>, I'm not going to stop that tradition because it may offend someone like you.

 

[boedicca]

Bingo.

Nice try, but no. I said I seldom say grace, not that I never say grace. Believe as you will, you do not have the right not to hear me say grace.

Say your grace silently and respectfully or say it in your home or church. Don't make me say it with you. If we both pray in silence there is connection and respect.

That's not what the 1st Amendment says.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Nice try, but no. I said I seldom say grace, not that I never say grace. Believe as you will, you do not have the right not to hear me say grace.

Say your grace silently and respectfully or say it in your home or church. Don't make me say it with you. If we both pray in silence there is connection and respect.

I have the right to free expression of my religion and you don't have the right to stop me. If there's more than one person saying grace, we say it aloud, that's just the way it is. You can sit by yourself and pray to whomever you want but you have no right to dictate that my friends and I can't pray simply because it offends you.

Thanksgiving at my house, we say grace, and then we each come up with something for which we are grateful. Now, if for some reason we eat Thanksgiving dinner out<and I'd really like to have a Thanksgiving dinner I didn't have to cook>, I'm not going to stop that tradition because it may offend someone like you.

Would you like to have my Buddhist prayer publically inflicted on you? Probably not.

 

[boedicca]

All this brouhaha over one moment of silence. It's sad.

The brouhaha is over the violation of some senior citizens' 1st Amendment rights.

 

[boedicca]

Say your grace silently and respectfully or say it in your home or church. Don't make me say it with you. If we both pray in silence there is connection and respect.

I have the right to free expression of my religion and you don't have the right to stop me. If there's more than one person saying grace, we say it aloud, that's just the way it is. You can sit by yourself and pray to whomever you want but you have no right to dictate that my friends and I can't pray simply because it offends you.

Thanksgiving at my house, we say grace, and then we each come up with something for which we are grateful. Now, if for some reason we eat Thanksgiving dinner out<and I'd really like to have a Thanksgiving dinner I didn't have to cook>, I'm not going to stop that tradition because it may offend someone like you.

Would you like to have my Buddhist prayer inflicted on you?

You are assuming that she views the exercise of one's Freedom of Speech to be offensive. You're wrong.

 

[Sky Dancer]

All this brouhaha over one moment of silence. It's sad.

The brouhaha is over the violation of some senior citizens' 1st Amendment rights.

Nonsense. They have the right to pray silently if the place is funded with federal bucks. They don't get to make everyone say a Christian prayers or a Hindu, Muslim or Buddhist prayer.

 

[boedicca]

So what you are saying is that to you, the price of Free Speech is $5.45 (the amount per meal paid for with federal funding).

Does this mean that anyone who accepts any money from the government has voided his 1st Amendment Rights?

You really hold freedom very cheaply.

 

[WillowTree]

No r e s p e c t.

 

[Avatar4321]

They can pray. It's just not an organized prayer.

Or they could always refuse funding.

Is allowing them to have an organized prayer really going to hurt anyone?

 

[Sky Dancer]

So what you are saying is that to you, the price of Free Speech is $5.45 (the amount per meal paid for with federal funding).

Does this mean that anyone who accepts any money from the government has voided his 1st Amendment Rights?

You really hold freedom very cheaply.

Are you ok with the seniors reciting prayers from the Koran instead of the Bible?

 

[Avatar4321]

I guess you didn't read your own article.

Why is it some people can't pray unless they do it out loud with other people? Even when some of those other people are offended by the sometimes obvious attempt to make those who don't participate feel like outcasts?

Isn't prayer supposed to be between God and the individual? Isn't using it as a tool to control people an offense to God?

Completely irrelevent. We live in the United States of America. If people want to have a group prayer outloud, who are you tell them they can't?

 

[boedicca]

So what you are saying is that to you, the price of Free Speech is $5.45 (the amount per meal paid for with federal funding).

Does this mean that anyone who accepts any money from the government has voided his 1st Amendment Rights?

You really hold freedom very cheaply.

Are you ok with the seniors reciting prayers from the Koran instead of the Bible?

If that is what they wish to do, it's no skin off my nose. Perhaps if you weren't so intolerant of others who do not share your beliefs, you would be able to grok that the 1st Amendment applies to all religious beliefs or the complete absence thereof.

 

[Avatar4321]

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

It be nice if you actually read what that said instead of implying that Jesus was telling people not to pray outloud with others.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So what you are saying is that to you, the price of Free Speech is $5.45 (the amount per meal paid for with federal funding).

Does this mean that anyone who accepts any money from the government has voided his 1st Amendment Rights?

You really hold freedom very cheaply.

Are you ok with the seniors reciting prayers from the Koran instead of the Bible?

If that is what they wish to do, it's no skin off my nose. Perhaps if you weren't so intolerant of others who do not share your beliefs, you would be able to grok that the 1st Amendment applies to all religious beliefs or the complete absence thereof.

I am all for a moment (or minutes) of silence which allows all those who pray--even when their prayers differ--to do so together and respects people who don't pray at all. Silence is inclusive and tolerant. Public prayer is exclusive and intolerant.

 

[boedicca]

A Moment of Silence imposed by the Government is not the same thing as the free expression of religion protected by the First Amendment.

And here's the thing: someone else's Freedom of Speech doesn't require Your Sanction.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Are you ok with the seniors reciting prayers from the Koran instead of the Bible?

If that is what they wish to do, it's no skin off my nose. Perhaps if you weren't so intolerant of others who do not share your beliefs, you would be able to grok that the 1st Amendment applies to all religious beliefs or the complete absence thereof.

I am all for a moment of silence which allows all those who pray--even if their prayers differ--to do so and respects people who don't pray at all.

The Constitution does not require that each person of various faiths embrace a moment of silence.

The First Amendment, as written, is a chain upon the federal government. It is a chain in the sense that it forbids the Congress from passing any law(s) that require any and all persons to worship in a specific manner.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yeah, this group of seniors who have been praying together for quite some time now, plan to force religious conformity on the public.

Of course, they are.

Notice, that the real people trying to force religious conformity on the public are the ones telling them they won't feed them if they pray.