Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[Sky Dancer]

Don't take federal dollars and you have no curtailment of your freedoms. It's that simple. Why does accepting federal money mean they can dictate your every action? Keep pushing the iron fist that comes with accepting federal money, and hopefully more people will wise up and tell them to shove it. This is the cause of many of our problems including state governments that are manipulated by federal dollars. It gives the fed way too much power and it has to be stopped.

Do you know what separation of Church and State means?

Yes, I do. You do not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." It is the interpretation of that First Amendment principle that we debate in this issue of praying in public.

Obviously, we differ in opinion.

 

[Newby]

Do you know what separation of Church and State means?

Yes, I do. You do not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

That is correct. The US government was not establishing a religion here, not anywhere even remotely close. It's absurd.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yes, I do. You do not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

That is correct. The US government was not establishing a religion here, not anywhere even remotely close. It's absurd.

It's debate. Those in favor of praying everywhere they want to in public say the Constitution supports them. Those who object to public out loud prayer say the Consitution supports their position.

For personal reasons, I find it offensive to make a public display of my religion by praying aloud and asking others to participate.

Believe me the seniors wouild scream if some Buddhist led a Buddhist prayer before meals. Christians think they're special.

 

[Newby]

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

That is correct. The US government was not establishing a religion here, not anywhere even remotely close. It's absurd.

It's debate. Those in favor of praying everywhere they want to in public say the Constitution supports them. Those who object to public out loud prayer say the Consitution supports their position.

For personal reasons, I find it offensive to make a public display of my religion by praying aloud and asking others to participate.

Believe me the seniors wouild scream if some Buddhist led a Buddhist prayer before meals. Christians think they're special.

I would fight for the right for anyone of any religion who wanted to pray out loud. It's called freedom of speech and freedom of religion, or doesn't the 'prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ' part of it mean anything to you? Why do you have the right to tell someone else how to speak or how to worship? You're the one that seems to think that your views should be enforced and be above all others, you're the one who apparently thinks you're 'special', whatever the hell that means.

 

[Againsheila]

Let's put it to a vote. Maybe some of the seniors don't want to eat unless they pray. If those that vomit during prayer outnumber those that are sickened without it, then they win. K Ang? I don't want to be guilty of alienating people from organized religion.

BTW - Which religion was this? Non-denominational?

Beneath your sarcasm, chanel, I detect a glimmer of hope that you will one day embrace separation of church and state. When the Radical Atheists take over the world and folks like Newby and Sheila and boedicca and Sulk Pilot are banished to the Gulag, I will plead clemency for your case. I believe you have potential for rehabilitation.

I know it's a joke, but it shows exactly what's behind your opinion. A big prejudice towards religion and you want to force others to become atheists, and you accused those seniors of proselytizing. Who says atheism isn't a religion? In your case, Anguille, it's become one.

 

[Againsheila]

Quit robbing my wallet and they can do as they want.
The real story here is why am I, and not their families, paying for their meals?
Plenty of wannahbe conservatives here.

So you don't think we should have to support our elderly? Our disabled? When did we stop being a civilized country?

 

[Againsheila]

Once a year on Scout Sunday, we visit a different church. The last time was very, very strange. The people were hootin and hollerin and waving flags and streamers around. I asked my son what he thought. He said "Way cool".

That's the way I was raised. I went to a couple synogogues, Baptist churches, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. and what some may find "uncomfortable" I found "way cool".

Doesn't learning about other cultures involve religion? You'd think people would value that. Guess not.

A 30 sec. prayer should not ruin anyone's appetite. If so, they should seek medical attention.

I think the point is that prayer ought to be optional and not forced upon anyone. Having thirty seconds of silence accomplishes this.

The point is that the prayer is optional, or should be. You don't have the right to tell me not to say grace before I eat just because it offends you. You don't have the right to tell me I can't voice my opinion just because it offends you. Apparently, your side is winning and I think that's just further proof that America is dead.

When they tell you you can't speak your opinion, or voice your beliefs...what are you going to do? Because believe me, it's not going to stop at some seniors saying grace before they eat.

 

[Againsheila]

Attending a religious event by choice is one thing. I've been to a few and have found them generally to be either weird or boring. Sometimes the music is good. Everytime I went to one it was my choice to be there and I was respectful even if I did not participate. I doubt at this senior home the pushy prayer group bothers to ask first if anyone minds if they do put on their little show.

Just because you think a 30 second prayer should not ruin anyone's appetite doesn't mean it never happens. Just because you have a warm and fuzzy relationship with religion or other people's religions and like to see it infiltrating every aspect of public life does not mean other people have or do also.

No wonder more and more people turn to atheism or reject organised religion. It's attitudes like yours, chanel, and of those proselytizing seniors and of several of the Christofascists in this thread that alienate people from religion.

So now they were proselytizing? Good grief, they said grace before they ate. There was no "demonstration" no "forced prayer" no "proselytizing".

What is your objection to the prayer being said silently so that it includes others who aren't Christian?

A silent prayer includes no one but yourself. A prayer said aloud includes all of those participating. What makes you think this is a Christian prayer and not a Muslim one? Oh yeah, you'd be fine if it was Muslim, it's only Christians that are hated in this country.

 

[Againsheila]

When we all retire to the USMB Home For The Aged there promise to be some lively disputes in the dining hall.

And I'll be saying grace out-loud before we eat, anybody care to join me? Strangely enough, I seldom say grace but there is no way I'm gonna let someone take that right away from me.

That figures. A prayer out loud is only meaningful to you as a political act. That is the whole point of protesting a forced prayer in public.

For the record, I say a prayer before eating. In public, or mixed company I say it silently and I don't fold my hands in prayer. I say the prayer outloud only at home or with my Buddhist community. How do you think the seniors would feel about being forced to recite a Buddhist prayer before eating?

You cannot "force" anyone to pray, you also cannot force anyone not to pray. See that's the difference. You may pray a Buddhist prayer, I won't stop you, heck I may even join you. But don't you dare try to force me to be silent about my religion.

The Japanese say grace before they eat too, except it's not really religious. And they say it aloud, in my home. I have no problems, I even join them. See that's the great thing about America, we are FREE to pray to whomever we want. You want to stop that, it's gonna be over my dead body.

 

[Againsheila]

Beneath your sarcasm, chanel, I detect a glimmer of hope that you will one day embrace separation of church and state. When the Radical Atheists take over the world and folks like Newby and Sheila and boedicca and Sulk Pilot are banished to the Gulag, I will plead clemency for your case. I believe you have potential for rehabilitation.

When you can show how some people saying grace outloud before a meal is the 'state' mandating a national religion, you might have a point. Until then, you have no point. Separation of church and state was just as much for the protection of the church from the power of the state as it was to protect the state from religion. You are guilty of trying to use the state to curtail religous freedom, you are in violation of that creed far more than some people saying grace before dinner.

Off to the Gulag with you, Missy.

You support seniors risking loosing federally funded meals all because illicit displays of religious piety are more important to you than seniors being well nourished.

Where are your values?

I give out lunches to the homeless every Monday from a church that isn't mine. All of those lunches are paid for by the people who attend that church. Some of the homeless say grace before eating, some don't. We don't care. I belong to a sorority that collects funds for cancer research. I volunteer at the local community theater. I have brought food to senior apartments and senior communities. I have given money to those same communities, and I would never deny them the right to pray, or not to pray.

Where are YOUR values??????

 

[Skull Pilot]

Quit robbing my wallet and they can do as they want.
The real story here is why am I, and not their families, paying for their meals?
Plenty of wannahbe conservatives here.

So you don't think we should have to support our elderly? Our disabled? When did we stop being a civilized country?

Funny how the intolerant left are the first to call us selfish when we want to keep more of our own money but have no problem pulling food subsidies for old people who merely want to express their thanks.

 

[Againsheila]

That figures. A prayer out loud is only meaningful to you as a political act.

Bingo.

Nice try, but no. I said I seldom say grace, not that I never say grace. Believe as you will, you do not have the right not to hear me say grace.

 

[Againsheila]

Do you know what separation of Church and State means?

Yes, I do. You do not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." It is the interpretation of that First Amendment principle that we debate in this issue of praying in public.

Obviously, we differ in opinion.

Yeah, you think you have the right to "prohibit the free exercise thereof" I don't.

 

[Anguille]

Let's put it to a vote. Maybe some of the seniors don't want to eat unless they pray. If those that vomit during prayer outnumber those that are sickened without it, then they win. K Ang? I don't want to be guilty of alienating people from organized religion.

BTW - Which religion was this? Non-denominational?

Beneath your sarcasm, chanel, I detect a glimmer of hope that you will one day embrace separation of church and state. When the Radical Atheists take over the world and folks like Newby and Sheila and boedicca and Sulk Pilot are banished to the Gulag, I will plead clemency for your case. I believe you have potential for rehabilitation.

I know it's a joke, but it shows exactly what's behind your opinion. A big prejudice towards religion and you want to force others to become atheists, and you accused those seniors of proselytizing. Who says atheism isn't a religion? In your case, Anguille, it's become one.

Believe me, it's no joke, Sheila.

You WILL be assimilated.

 

[boedicca]

A silent prayer includes no one but yourself. A prayer said aloud includes all of those participating. What makes you think this is a Christian prayer and not a Muslim one? Oh yeah, you'd be fine if it was Muslim, it's only Christians that are hated in this country.

Using your logic, we should all be able to prevent anyone from speaking out loud about anything we find offensive.

 

[Againsheila]

A silent prayer includes no one but yourself. A prayer said aloud includes all of those participating. What makes you think this is a Christian prayer and not a Muslim one? Oh yeah, you'd be fine if it was Muslim, it's only Christians that are hated in this country.

Using your logic, we should all be able to prevent anyone from speaking out loud about anything we find offensive.

Um, was that aimed at me? I sure hope not. If so, I think we got our wires crossed.

 

[Anguille]

A silent prayer includes no one but yourself. A prayer said aloud includes all of those participating. What makes you think this is a Christian prayer and not a Muslim one? Oh yeah, you'd be fine if it was Muslim, it's only Christians that are hated in this country.

Using your logic, we should all be able to prevent anyone from speaking out loud about anything we find offensive.

Um, was that aimed at me? I sure hope not. If so, I think we got our wires crossed.

What's the matter? Boedicca spoke her mind. You gotta problem with free speech?

 

[boedicca]

I think I misread Againsheila's intent. After rereading the prior posts, I see her comment in a different context.

Anguille - you are the one advocating for people to be silenced. That is the concept to which I'm objecting.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yes, I do. You do not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." It is the interpretation of that First Amendment principle that we debate in this issue of praying in public.

Obviously, we differ in opinion.

Yeah, you think you have the right to "prohibit the free exercise thereof" I don't.

Keep prayer in the Churches and home and practice a moment or so of silence. It does wonders for a sense of inclusiveness.

 

[Sky Dancer]

That figures. A prayer out loud is only meaningful to you as a political act.

Bingo.

Nice try, but no. I said I seldom say grace, not that I never say grace. Believe as you will, you do not have the right not to hear me say grace.

Say your grace silently and respectfully or say it in your home or church. Don't make me say it with you. If we both pray in silence there is connection and respect.