Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay

[georgephillip]

...Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either...

Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.

"...What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?"

Ummmm...

The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?

The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?

Just a guess.

NO! Not a guess! More like the sober unvarnished truth. One might add that Israel is completely democratic and that there is no example of a democracy starting an aggressive war against its neighbours.

Israel is far from completely democratic, and its prime protector, aka, the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, has been waging aggressive war against its neighbors (and others) since its inception.

"The Mexican–American War, also known as the Mexican War, the U.S.–Mexican War, the Invasion of Mexico, the U.S. Intervention, 'The War of Irrelevants', or the United States War Against Mexico, was an armed conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory despite the 1836 Texas Revolution."

Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Fishlore]

Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's. Having earned the enmity of most of the world, the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend. The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair. Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire. The situation is neither stable nor viable.

 

[Peterf]

Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.


Ummmm...

The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?

The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?

Just a guess.

NO! Not a guess! More like the sober unvarnished truth. One might add that Israel is completely democratic and that there is no example of a democracy starting an aggressive war against its neighbours.

Israel is far from completely democratic, and its prime protector, aka, the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, has been waging aggressive war against its neighbors (and others) since its inception.

"The Mexican–American War, also known as the Mexican War, the U.S.–Mexican War, the Invasion of Mexico, the U.S. Intervention, 'The War of Irrelevants', or the United States War Against Mexico, was an armed conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory despite the 1836 Texas Revolution."

Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By a very wide margin Israel is the most democratic country in the Near East. (For some strange reason the accurate expression 'Near East' got changed into the worse 'Middle East' several decades ago. I blame the Americans, whose knowledge of geography is, shall we say, less than complete.)

Oh - you omitted the war of 1812. You know the one when the Yanks sneakilly tried to grab Canada while the gallant Britons were busy fighting the tyrant Napoleon. Now that I think about it is surprising that the USA didn't have a second try in 1939 or 1940, when the Brits had their hands full fighting Hitler.

 

[Hossfly]

Most aid is in the form of load guarantees. The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
Loans get paid back with interest.
Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value. Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid. US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.

The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!

 

[Hossfly]

Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's. Having earned the enmity of most of the world, the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend. The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair. Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire. The situation is neither stable nor viable.

If you sincerely believe that hosscrap then the world is safe for another generation.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, Peterf, et al,

I have to agree more with our friend "Peterf" in the classical sense.

No, very far from the biggest military power. Just the best.

They're the only nuclear power in the ME, that's pretty big!

(COMMENT)

"IF" the State of Israel had a deployable tactical nuclear weapon (they neither confirm nor deny - not being a signatory to the NNPT), it would be a very expensive weapons system to maintain; and a system they cannot use under normal circumstances. From a practical standpoint, they are in the same box as the Iranians or the Pakistani. Any use, or attempt to use such a weapons system would have to be in the very final death throes of their existence; their last action of a dying cultural society. It would spell the end of any nation that would use such a weapons system; not just Israel, but any nation.

It is very hard to say what the tactical objective would be for such a deployment, but the best defense against such a deployment is a strong and agile conventional defense program with NO nuclear capability. Should any nation with a nuclear capability, use it against a non-nuclear capable opponent, such an action would have to be so justified internationally as to grant tacit approval. Otherwise, it would invite total destruction. It is what mitigates the Iranian threat of such a capability. If they were ever thought to be preparing to use such a weapon system, they would be preemptively burnt to the ground; back to the 17th Century.

No, the best advantage Israel has --- is maintaining the superiority of their conventional force.

The advantage to Israel maintaining a Nuclear capacity is the insurance against its total destruction. Should the Arab League or any similar Persian Alliance, somehow gain the upper hand and the fate of Israel where to be sealed, it is not quite known what the Israeli targeting strategy would be, if any at all (non-deployable - unthinkable). My guess would be all the major cities of the primary aggressor, all key infrastructure, and any shrines of such significants as to defy reconstitution - would be surely considered; then aligned and unaligned cultural and strategic allies. But the scope and nature of the Israeli culture is such, that they might not deploy such a system at all; even in a last ditch effort. Israel does not exhibit the same genocidal tendencies as do the Arab cultural opponents.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[aris2chat]

The theory was last man standing will make sure no one gets Israel. It would have back then triggered a doomsday scenario not just in the middle east but the world.
Iran wanted to put the world back on the clock.
It was safer letting the region think Israel might make the region uninhabitable, and a cloud that would have spread across most of the muslim world. Now the world takes it for granted that Israel has a nuclear arsenal though never tested. The brains and the science we know they have.
Lets hope we never find out for sure.

 

[American_Jihad]

Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.

Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...

Here is the only reason why Israel is still standing:

"Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date,
the United States has provided Israel $118 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in
bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance,
although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance. Strong congressional
support for Israel has resulted in Israel receiving benefits not available to any other countries; for
example, Israel can use some U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the
United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, U.S. assistance
earmarked for Israel is generally delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year, while most other
recipients normally receive aid in installments. In addition to receiving U.S. State Department-
administered foreign assistance, Israel also receives funds from annual defense appropriations
bills for rocket and missile defense programs. Israel pursues some of those programs jointly with
the United States. "

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

"For FY2014, the Administration is requesting $3.1 billion in FMF to Israel and $15 million in
Migration and Refugee Assistance. The Missile Defense Agency’s FY2014 request for Israeli
Cooperative Programs is $95.782 million, including $52.607 million for Arrow III, $32.512
million for David’s Sling, and $10.663 million for Arrow II. The Department of Defense also is
requesting $220 million in FY2014 Procurement, Defense-wide funds for Iron Dome."

If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...

 

[Billo_Really]

I have to agree more with our friend "Peterf" in the classical sense.

Hey, if you want to agree with an extreme right-wing lunatic, go ahead.

"IF" the State of Israel had a deployable tactical nuclear weapon (they neither confirm nor deny - not being a signatory to the NNPT), it would be a very expensive weapons system to maintain; and a system they cannot use under normal circumstances.

That's just conjecture. What they should do, is sign the NNPT and allow UN inspections of their nuclear sites.

From a practical standpoint, they are in the same box as the Iranians or the Pakistani.

Bullshit! First off, take Pakistan out of the equation. If they decide to nuke anyone, it will be India. Secondly, Iran doesn't have nukes. Nor are they trying to build nukes. Both US and Israeli intel have confirmed this.

Israel’s intelligence service Mossad has acknowledged, just like their American counterparts, there is no proof Tehran is carrying out a nuclear weapons program, a source in US intelligence told the New York Times. *An unnamed former senior US intelligence official told the paper “Mossad does not disagree with the US on the [Iranian] weapons program.”

The consensus among US spy agencies remains that Iran stopped its nuclear weapons research several years ago.

US spy agencies have been searching around for years, trying to find proof Iran is developing a nuclear warhead and missiles to deliver it. For all of their troubles, this is what they’ve found: the program was shut down way back in 2003.

All your hypotheticals don't change the fact that you cannot put a nuclear state in the same box as a non-nuclear one.

Any use, or attempt to use such a weapons system would have to be in the very final death throes of their existence; their last action of a dying cultural society. It would spell the end of any nation that would use such a weapons system; not just Israel, but any nation.

Israel has shown they'd use a nuke as a first strike. They started the last 6 wars they've been in and have shown time and time again, their plans to pursue military aggression against their neighbors and all perceived enemies, whether they be real or not.

It is very hard to say what the tactical objective would be for such a deployment, but the best defense against such a deployment is a strong and agile conventional defense program with NO nuclear capability. Should any nation with a nuclear capability, use it against a non-nuclear capable opponent, such an action would have to be so justified internationally as to grant tacit approval. Otherwise, it would invite total destruction. It is what mitigates the Iranian threat of such a capability. If they were ever thought to be preparing to use such a weapon system, they would be preemptively burnt to the ground; back to the 17th Century.

There's no sense in talking about that, because Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years.

No, the best advantage Israel has --- is maintaining the superiority of their conventional force.

The best advantage for Israel, is to stop causing trouble and starting wars.

The advantage to Israel maintaining a Nuclear capacity is the insurance against its total destruction. Should the Arab League or any similar Persian Alliance, somehow gain the upper hand and the fate of Israel where to be sealed, it is not quite known what the Israeli targeting strategy would be, if any at all (non-deployable - unthinkable). My guess would be all the major cities of the primary aggressor, all key infrastructure, and any shrines of such significants as to defy reconstitution - would be surely considered; then aligned and unaligned cultural and strategic allies. But the scope and nature of the Israeli culture is such, that they might not deploy such a system at all; even in a last ditch effort. Israel does not exhibit the same genocidal tendencies as do the Arab cultural opponents.

Oh bullshit! Tell that to the arabs killed at Deir Yassin.

Israel doesn't give a damn about human rights and are practicing slow genocide against the residents of Gaza. If they thought they could kill off all the Pals and have the world not notice, they would.

 

[Billo_Really]

If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...

You can't even prove they're building any!

 

[American_Jihad]

If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...

You can't even prove they're building any!

Likewise mr. bill...

 

[Billo_Really]

Likewise mr. bill...

Not likewise, AJ.

Check out the link 2 posts ago.

 

[docmauser1]

Hey, if you want to agree with an extreme right-wing lunatic, go ahead. That's just conjecture. What they should do, is sign the NNPT and allow UN inspections of their nuclear sites. Bullshit! First off, take Pakistan out of the equation. If they decide to nuke anyone, it will be India. Secondly, Iran doesn't have nukes. Nor are they trying to build nukes. Both US and Israeli intel have confirmed this. All your hypotheticals don't change the fact that you cannot put a nuclear state in the same box as a non-nuclear one. Israel has shown they'd use a nuke as a first strike. They started the last 6 wars they've been in and have shown time and time again, their plans to pursue military aggression against their neighbors and all perceived enemies, whether they be real or not. There's no sense in talking about that, because Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years. The best advantage for Israel, is to stop causing trouble and starting wars. Oh bullshit! Tell that to the arabs killed at Deir Yassin. Israel doesn't give a damn about human rights and are practicing slow genocide against the residents of Gaza. If they thought they could kill off all the Pals and have the world not notice, they would.

Drivel.

 

[Billo_Really]

Drivel.

Why respond when it's obvious you have no argument?

 

[Hollie]

I don't see Israel having any need to use a nuke except, as noted, for retaliation in the face of a “doomsday” scenario.

Their conventional forces, tactics and planning have proven superior to any Arab (combined Arab) aggression.

 

[Kondor3]

"Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's..."

And every time that some Muslim country's political leadership holds internal talks about attacking Israel, the General Staff of that country's armed forces start to pee their pants. Impressive.

"...Having earned the enmity of most of the world..."

Insisting upon surviving - when much of the rest of world would have rather you not even declared Statehood and would rather you remain scattered across the world rather than carving out your own country from your presently-occupied spiritual homeland - tends to do that.

"...the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend..."

Israel?United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$3.15 billion per year; of an annual military budget of $50.6 billion...

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$3.15 billion US aid / $50.6 billion defense budget = 0.0622...

US military aid = 6.2% of the total Israeli defense budget...

Hardly 'hanging by the thread' of US financial aid.

And our own arms industries get 74% of that $3.15 billion back, as new arms purchases; an indirect subsidy for our own manufacturers; which means American jobs.

Heck, until recently, Egypt - a Muslim-dominated country, historically hostile to Israel, got $1.6 billion annually in military aid - only cut-off when their military overthrew Morsi...

We give large-scale aid to a lot of countries...

How big is US foreign aid? | Consultants Mind


Israel is merely one of our favorites.

"...The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair..."

What is an 'integrated Middle East state' in this context?

How has that been smashed beyond repair?

If there is any Failed State or Smashed State to be had in that region, it is 'Rump Palestine' - a state-wannabe that never was, and, most likely, never will be.

"...Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire..."

No. Just a good friend, strong ally, and a tripwire for The West against a reawakening and re-militarizing Islam.

"...The situation is neither stable..."

That land controls the eastern side of the only land-bridge between Asia and Africa.

As such, it has been fought-over since the first nations and empires and armies appeared in that part of the world, thousands of years ago.

Rather like having your living room rest in the middle lanes of a busy multi-lane highway.

That land has never been 'stable', when one pulls back and takes the macro-level view of its history and long line of combatants and conquerors.

"...nor viable."

Doesn't matter.

The Jews of the world have no place else to go, as a polity.

They are obliged to try.

And they may confound all the doomsayers who - so far - have been about as wrong as wrong can be, in predicting her decline and demise.

Good friends are helpful, but the Jews of Israel are largely self-reliant in most areas; learning from history that they must ultimately rely upon themselves.

And they are well along the road to attaining military self-sufficiency in most areas of weapons development and manufacture, as well - just in case.

 

[Iceman]

Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.

Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...

By who?

 

[Iceman]

Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.

I thought Israel could take care of itself? So your saying without the aid the "Islamic regimes" would wipe out Israel?

 

[Iceman]

Most aid is in the form of load guarantees. The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
Loans get paid back with interest.
Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value. Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid. US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.

The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!

Yea, there is no fight versus the Palestinians, it is a slaughter.

Oi vey, ve need ze vhite phospherous against ze Palestinians! Ve cant' have a second Holocau$t!

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Most aid is in the form of load guarantees. The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
Loans get paid back with interest.
Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value. Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid. US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.

The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!

Yea, there is no fight versus the Palestinians, it is a slaughter.

Oi vey, ve need ze vhite phospherous against ze Palestinians! Ve cant' have a second Holocau$t!

Pathetic little troll.