God given rights. Do you really have any?

[james bond]

Isn't that kind of fucked up, tho? God is punishing us all because Adam made a bad decision?

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

 

[james bond]

We did not lose heaven. I, like Jesus, see it all around me.

Then, it's not heaven. I wouldn't call what we have heaven because for one, everyone must die.

How can you say we lost heaven though, when Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan?

God said it.

As for the rest of what you claim, you believe in a wrong bible.

 

[JoeB131]

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Okay, that's a lot of wonderful mythology, not really reflected anywhere in the Bible.

Point was, God put the tree right where Adam could get at it, really gave him no basis for understanding, and then let the talking snake into the garden. God has the morality of a Batman Villain.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

The scary thing is you think these bronze age fairy tales really happened.

 

[Taz]

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

Only if the government is god.

 

[james bond]

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Okay, that's a lot of wonderful mythology, not really reflected anywhere in the Bible.

Point was, God put the tree right where Adam could get at it, really gave him no basis for understanding, and then let the talking snake into the garden. God has the morality of a Batman Villain.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

The scary thing is you think these bronze age fairy tales really happened.

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

It's all spelled out in Isaiah 14:12-18:

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!

You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,

who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;"

You claim that it's a metal age myth, but it's you and your fellow atheists who can't ignore God's word. Otherwise, why do these threads go on for so long? It even continues in Science and Technology forum haha.

 

[JoeB131]

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

Actually, the story in Genesis doesn't describe the snake as being Satan or Lucifer. It's just a snake that had legs and could talk for some reason.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

Well, yeah, it kind of does... God gives Adam an impossible choice and then punishes him when he makes the wrong one.

You see, my problem with the bible is that I read it, and God is supposed to be the "Good Guy"? He murders babies on a whim, Satan only kills 10 people at God's instigation. But God is the "Good guy" in that book?

To the point- There used to be a great video on this but the author took it down.

Pre- Temple - God is every force of nature that the Hebrews didn't understand, and does awful things to them.

Post Temple - Satan is God's tool, who does God's dirty work. (See the Book of Job, where Satan is allowed into Heaven and is part of a heavenly counsel.)

Christianity- Satan is God's adversary.

 

[Taz]

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Okay, that's a lot of wonderful mythology, not really reflected anywhere in the Bible.

Point was, God put the tree right where Adam could get at it, really gave him no basis for understanding, and then let the talking snake into the garden. God has the morality of a Batman Villain.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

The scary thing is you think these bronze age fairy tales really happened.

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

It's all spelled out in Isaiah 14:12-18:

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!

You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,

who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;"

You claim that it's a metal age myth, but it's you and your fellow atheists who can't ignore God's word. Otherwise, why do these threads go on for so long? It even continues in Science and Technology forum haha.

So why did god give us covid?

 

[ding]

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Okay, that's a lot of wonderful mythology, not really reflected anywhere in the Bible.

Point was, God put the tree right where Adam could get at it, really gave him no basis for understanding, and then let the talking snake into the garden. God has the morality of a Batman Villain.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

The scary thing is you think these bronze age fairy tales really happened.

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

It's all spelled out in Isaiah 14:12-18:

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!

You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,

who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;"

You claim that it's a metal age myth, but it's you and your fellow atheists who can't ignore God's word. Otherwise, why do these threads go on for so long? It even continues in Science and Technology forum haha.

So why did god give us covid?

Welcome back. How long were you gone? 6 months?

Life is full of ups and downs. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[ding]

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

Actually, the story in Genesis doesn't describe the snake as being Satan or Lucifer. It's just a snake that had legs and could talk for some reason.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

Well, yeah, it kind of does... God gives Adam an impossible choice and then punishes him when he makes the wrong one.

You see, my problem with the bible is that I read it, and God is supposed to be the "Good Guy"? He murders babies on a whim, Satan only kills 10 people at God's instigation. But God is the "Good guy" in that book?

To the point- There used to be a great video on this but the author took it down.

Pre- Temple - God is every force of nature that the Hebrews didn't understand, and does awful things to them.

Post Temple - Satan is God's tool, who does God's dirty work. (See the Book of Job, where Satan is allowed into Heaven and is part of a heavenly counsel.)

Christianity- Satan is God's adversary.

You have it all wrong. Original sin is not disobeying God. Original sin is not being accountable when we do. And God doesn't punish us for not being accountable, the consequences from not being accountable is our punishment. So in effect, we punish ourselves. In fact, you strike me as a person who has been punishing himself for a very long time.

All problems would be solved in short order if people started being accountable.

 

[james bond]

Actually, the story in Genesis doesn't describe the snake as being Satan or Lucifer. It's just a snake that had legs and could talk for some reason.

You are trying so hard to deny Satan's existence. For one, we had Jesus seeing Lucifer fall like lightening from heaven. In Genesis 3, Satan either appeared as a serpent, possessed the serpent, or deceived Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. It wasn't a snake then, but a creature with four legs and a tail. We know serpents couldn't talk, but Satan made it appear it was talking. If you read Revelation 12:9 and 20:2, Satan is described as a serpent. Next.

Well, yeah, it kind of does... God gives Adam an impossible choice and then punishes him when he makes the wrong one.

Adam and Eve could've moved to another part of the garden or someplace far away. I'm not sure what's so impossible about avoiding a fruit. Anyway, it's hard for you to believe all this, but here you are arguing about it. You already have been eliminated. God knew before you were born that you weren't chosen.

You see, my problem with the bible is that I read it, and God is supposed to be the "Good Guy"? He murders babies on a whim, Satan only kills 10 people at God's instigation. But God is the "Good guy" in that book?

God is the "Good Guy" because he condoned killing the wicked. The Canaanites and the Amalekites practiced some morally corrupt sexually deviant practices that Satan led them to. It seems Satan had reached the point of having great influence over the peoples of that time.

It's hard to believe that people could have become so wicked that God condoned his armies to kill men, women, and children. Could it happen again? We've had President Trump say "looting will lead to shooting."

To the point- There used to be a great video on this but the author took it down.

Pre- Temple - God is every force of nature that the Hebrews didn't understand, and does awful things to them.

Post Temple - Satan is God's tool, who does God's dirty work. (See the Book of Job, where Satan is allowed into Heaven and is part of a heavenly counsel.)

Christianity- Satan is God's adversary.

You sound like you recognize Satan, but he's the "force of nature that the Hebrews didn't understand, and does awful things to them." For example, we had Darwinism which led to social Darwinism, eugenics, Hitler, and the Holocaust. It also led to black genocide.

While God the Father holds influence over our universe, he isn't here in person as he hates sin. Jesus isn't here either as we are awaiting his return. He does hold influence over our universe, too, and resides in the believers hearts like one who has died. That leaves the Holy Spirit who is present among the believers. It also leaves Satan and his demons who are causing the COVID-19 and race havoc now. They seems to be ones in control. Will it lead to the end? I don't think so. I think we'll make some breakthroughs in regards to a vaccine or drug treatment and the racial tensions will subside as police tactics and hiring of officers will change. I'm not as sure about the latter. Hopefully, the races will understand each other better. We may have a different definition of racism. I dunno.

 

[james bond]

So why did god give us covid?

Satan gave you COVID-19. I think he's killing all the liberals that he can right now.

 

[JoeB131]

You are trying so hard to deny Satan's existence. For one, we had Jesus seeing Lucifer fall like lightening from heaven. In Genesis 3, Satan either appeared as a serpent, possessed the serpent, or deceived Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. It wasn't a snake then, but a creature with four legs and a tail. We know serpents couldn't talk, but Satan made it appear it was talking. If you read Revelation 12:9 and 20:2, Satan is described as a serpent. Next.

Soooo many problems with that story... Sooo many.

First, Satan is a very late construct in bible history. He doesn't appear at all in the Pre-Temple writings, and in the New Temple writings, he's a minor character who does God's bidding.

Second, the talking snake is just that. A talking snake. So Satan possessed a snake and for that reason ALL 3000 species of snakes lost their legs? Really? (Also, snakes don't eat dirt like the bible says). Imagine the poor Garter Snake, saying, "Hey, what did I do?" or the poor Pygopodidae saying, "Hey, we aren't even snakes, we're lizards, why did we lose our legs?:

yes, Revelations did "Retcon" the serpent in the Genesis as Satan, but it's exactly that, it's a retcon.

It's a later writing trying to make older writing comport with current thinking.

You sound like you recognize Satan, but he's the "force of nature that the Hebrews didn't understand, and does awful things to them." For example, we had Darwinism which led to social Darwinism, eugenics, Hitler, and the Holocaust. It also led to black genocide.

Um, no, Old Testament People attributed bad things they didn't understand (Plagues, Famines, Locust) to God. We must have offended God, let's go out and stone someone who did something bad. This is what fucking primitive people do. Later more sophisticated people attributed Satan as being a punisher working on God's behalf. (For instance, in 2 Samuel 24, God told David to take the Census that caused a plague, but when the story was recounted in 2 Chronicles 21, Satan provoked the Census.)

The thing is, Good Christian People were killing Jews and enslaving blacks long before Darwin came along and fitted part of his theories to the racism of the day. When the Nazis threw the jews in the gas chamber, they didn't wear belt buckles that said, "Natural Selection", they wore ones that said, "Gott Mit Uns" (God's With Us!). God didn't object. Neither did the Pope. Good thing the Godless Red Army came along and stopped that shit.

While God the Father holds influence over our universe, he isn't here in person as he hates sin. Jesus isn't here either as we are awaiting his return. He does hold influence over our universe, too, and resides in the believers hearts like one who has died. That leaves the Holy Spirit who is present among the believers. It also leaves Satan and his demons who are causing the COVID-19 and race havoc now.

so what your saying is your God is impotent.

They seems to be ones in control. Will it lead to the end? I don't think so. I think we'll make some breakthroughs in regards to a vaccine or drug treatment and the racial tensions will subside as police tactics and hiring of officers will change. I'm not as sure about the latter. Hopefully, the races will understand each other better. We may have a different definition of racism. I dunno.

I don't know either, but the one thing I do know.

Grovelling in front of an imaginary sky pixie isn't going to get us any closer to solving these problems.

 

[Taz]

So why did god give us covid?

Satan gave you COVID-19. I think he's killing all the liberals that he can right now.

God could have stopped Satan.

 

[Taz]

How is that fucked up? Adam got heaven for all time, everything he wants, and then he does the one thing he was forbidden to do, i.e. disobey God. It didn't take very long for him to fuck up. That gave Satan domain over the world. He became "the god of the world and prince of the power of the air." This is why our world is doomed and everyone must die.

Okay, that's a lot of wonderful mythology, not really reflected anywhere in the Bible.

Point was, God put the tree right where Adam could get at it, really gave him no basis for understanding, and then let the talking snake into the garden. God has the morality of a Batman Villain.

Today, Noah's descendants get the same but many don't do the one thing they are supposed to do. All of Adam's descendants didn't make it. Maybe a few made it, but were killed by the majority of the wicked. I'm not sure how things play out this time around because the end isn't spelled out as it was with Noah's Flood.

The scary thing is you think these bronze age fairy tales really happened.

Now, you're denying Satan. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Lucifer became Satan and in the Bible it states that he tempted Adam to want to be like God.

It really didn't matter where the tree was nor that Adam was tempted. He did his dastardly deed out of free will because he wanted to be like God.

It's all spelled out in Isaiah 14:12-18:

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!

You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,

who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;"

You claim that it's a metal age myth, but it's you and your fellow atheists who can't ignore God's word. Otherwise, why do these threads go on for so long? It even continues in Science and Technology forum haha.

So why did god give us covid?

Welcome back. How long were you gone? 6 months?

Life is full of ups and downs. Do you have a problem with that?

6 months and it's just the same fucking imbeciles spouting the same fucking bullshit as before, lol.

But no, I have no problem with god giving us covid. He's always been a bit of a prick.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

You make an interesting presupposition that if God gives us something, he will not let others take it from us. Take us through the Bible and tell us where God says that he will protect you and you will have no responsibility in the maintenance of your own defense when it comes to Rights.

For me, quite the converse is true. In Deuteronomy 20 for example, we have laid out for us the rules for warfare. If we are not to participate in our own defense, there would be no need for the rules of warfare. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation concerns itself with the fight between good and evil. The evil will always seek to take that which you have a Right to.

Luke 11: 21: " When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace..."

I cannot find this presupposition that if a Creator gives you something, it is not YOUR duty to protect it. Wars of aggression to take land, gold, silver, or other tangible commodities are unjust. Wars to force people to accept a given form of government are unjust wars. However, wars fought against dictators who try to force people into a tyrannical form of government and / or those forms of government that seek to take away your Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness would be justifiable reasons for a war against tyranny.

You can talk the talk you like that we don't have Rights, but if someone showed up today to take your personal possessions and the police were busy fighting rioters, if you had a firearm, you'd use it to protect what you think you have a "right" to. You don't just let anybody take what you have. Our forefathers understood that you have Rights and it doesn't take a majority to defend those Rights. According to Samuel Adams (one of our nations founders): "It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

That observation flies in the face of the belief that might makes right. If you are in the right and you are defending something you're rightfully entitled to (i.e. unalienable Rights) it will not take a majority to secure those Rights. When the colonists wanted to secure those Rights, they took on the mightiest nation in history. Only 56 men signed the Declaration of Independence and in the War of Independence the colonists, even with the help of France, the colonists were not what you would regard as some insurmountable force. Yet they prevailed because their cause was just. I think you've started out with a false presupposition that you're going to find hard to make a case for.

 

[GreatestIam]

Only if the government is god.

Insigntful.

That put's the onus on yourself. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

We did not lose heaven. I, like Jesus, see it all around me.

Then, it's not heaven. I wouldn't call what we have heaven because for one, everyone must die.

How can you say we lost heaven though, when Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan?

God said it.

As for the rest of what you claim, you believe in a wrong bible.

So you do not believe in what Jesus taught about heaven. Ok.

If you prefer to think that man can throw god's plan off the rails, keep your loser of a god.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Adam got heaven for all time,

Yet elsewhere you deny that heaven is on earth.

Can't make up your mind eh?

Like your religion, you are confused and do not want logos as it destroys your mythos.

Youi resist growing up.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God given rights. Do you really have any? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government. If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty. To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached. Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none? Regards DL

There are no god givhings made up by men that can take them from you at any second

If you allow them to, yes.

We are the only ones who can accept or protect the right we give each other via our governments.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

A bad decision?

What makes you say that?

Before you reply. Read what I just put above on Christians singing of Adam's sin being a happy fault.

Regards
DL

Okay, let's look at that. If God was so anxious to have Adam not commit the sin, why not make the Tree of Knowledge's fruit taste like Asparagus? Why not put it far away from the Garden? Why let the talking snake into the garden.

If the story was changed, then we might not recognize that sin and evil is in all of us, and that we should embrace those traits, as happy faults and necessary to god's plan, as well as natures plan, and that the evil and sins we do are just a small evils in the greater good of our ongoing evolution.

The bible is a naturalist document that shows us nature as well as god. They are the same, as expressed by humans.

Regards
DL