God... Is Time.

[Wuwei]

Most of the discussion here is at the level of philosophers thousands of years. Science knows much more about time today. People here are talking about the “instantaniousness” of time. However, time, energy and some other physical concepts always carry an uncertainty.

“This is not a statement about the inaccuracy of measurement instruments, nor a reflection on the quality of experimental methods; it arises from the wave properties inherent in the quantum mechanical description of nature. Even with perfect instruments and technique, the uncertainty is inherent in the nature of things.”
Uncertainty principle

Saying “God is time” is a personal feeling. It should not be construed has having any basis in physical reality and gives no insight into what God or time really is. Understanding time is in the realm of physics. Understanding God is in the realm of religion.

 

[sealybobo]

I first considered writing the one-millionth thread on the philosophical discussion of a Creator, then I paused and thought deeper. Is there some way to break through the typical mundane chore of battling our way through various debates on religion and religious dogma to arrive at some point of mutual understanding or consideration? I am not sure if there is, but it's worth thinking about if you are able to hang your preconceptions at the door and be open minded.

The primary weapon of those who disbelieve concepts of God is science. There is no physical evidence to support the idea of God, therefore God is rejected as a possibility. We are all familiar with the argument, so what is the point in yet another thread to debate this? It's really pointless, right? But the thing is, science doesn't draw conclusions of certainty on the matter of God, or anything else, really. Science merely explores probability and possibility. Man creates conclusions of certainty, and at that moment, he also abandons science for faith. Science continues to explore possibility, and if possibility has been determined to not exist, science can do no more.

I am often asked what is my "proof" that God exists. My proof is Time. Time is God and God is Time. Before you jump to the conclusion this is not possible because Time is a physical dimension we can measure with science, consider the following: Our perception of Time is false. We assume Time exists, we can't perceive the present. We can divide Time into past, present and future. We have no perception of the future or if the future will happen at all. We only have evidence of the past, which includes our perceptions of the present. You see-- Every physical sense we have depends on the passing of time to happen. Something may happen in present time but by the time you perceive it, time has passed and it's in the past. The moment of the present is undetectable to mortal human beings. We assume the present time happened because evidence exists in the past that seems to confirm this. If we cannot observe it, does it really exist?

Thank Time I'm smarter than you. Time damn you're dumb.

As I made my theist friend admit last night, it doesnt matter if we dont believe. Does time punish us if we dont believe? If god is time what is the devil?

Let's assume you are right something created the universe. Now tell us why you believe in an afterlife.

Wow... You quoted the OP but you don't seem to have read it. This is NOT a religious debate thread.

Then it doesnt matter because the thing you believe created us doesnt care, didn't create a heaven for us and there is no requirement we believe. And when you die that's it.

If all you're saying is a god or creator must exist. OK. I dont agree but so what? What does it matter?

 

[sealybobo]

We do not perceive the present. It's physically impossible. Everything perceived is in the past.

.
to comprehend the present for eternity is the ultimate goal.

there is no dimension of time associated with the Everlasting, perception of the Everlasting can only be accomplished at the passing of the Apex of Knowledge, when allowed Admittance by the Almighty.

.

Huh? The next 14 bill years after you die will be just like the first 14 before you were born.

Athiests can't imagine live without them in the future. Can they think about what it was like before they existed?

Thiesm is sad and pathetic and desperate.

 

[sealybobo]

Motion cannot happen without Time.

Ass backwards yet again. Time cannot happen without motion.

And yet time passes for things not in motion.

the entire universe is in motion. another moron post from a retarded thread.

Well parts are in motion, parts are moving faster than the speed of light and parts are motionless. Time, however, is constantly happening. Regardless of whether Time facilitates motion or motion facilitates Time, the perception of present and future time is non-observable and depends on our faith that it exists.

The newly created religion of "Time Pwooves Gawds"

What god is it? I mean what time is it? Time is god? We already have a word for time. Its TIME. Why is every single thing religions claim a lie and yet boss type athiests know it yet they still hold on?

My buddy last night kept trying to tell me all the reasons he believes and they were all emotional.

Why do I " just gotta believe"? Lol

 

[Boss]

If you didn't divide time, everything would happen at once..

Impossible. To "happen" requires Time.

God dwells in a different dimension—the spirit realm—beyond the perception of our physical senses. It’s not that God isn’t real; it’s a matter of His not being limited by the physical laws and dimensions that govern our world

Read more:What is God s relationship to time

Maybe Time dwells in the "spirit realm" as well? The same physical laws prohibit us from observing time in the present or future. If we can't observe it, does it really exist?

 

[Boss]

Ass backwards yet again. Time cannot happen without motion.

And yet time passes for things not in motion.

the entire universe is in motion. another moron post from a retarded thread.

Well parts are in motion, parts are moving faster than the speed of light and parts are motionless. Time, however, is constantly happening. Regardless of whether Time facilitates motion or motion facilitates Time, the perception of present and future time is non-observable and depends on our faith that it exists.

The newly created religion of "Time Pwooves Gawds"

What god is it? I mean what time is it? Time is god? We already have a word for time. Its TIME. Why is every single thing religions claim a lie and yet boss type athiests know it yet they still hold on?

My buddy last night kept trying to tell me all the reasons he believes and they were all emotional.

Why do I " just gotta believe"? Lol

Words are meaningless in this argument. We can have two completely different understandings regarding the meaning of a word. We're arguing physics here because math trumps words and you can't manipulate the meaning of math. You can believe A. time exists or B. time does not exist. Your faith is up to you.

I don't know about Religions, this thread isn't about Religions. Also don't know about your buddy or atheists. What I do know is that physics demonstrates it's not possible for humans to observe time happening in the present tense. Our perceptions are of time which has passed.

So you can see, Time becomes sort of enigmatic, like God. We must have faith that present time exists because we cannot observe it happening in the present. Or we can argue that since we can't observe it directly, it must not really exist. If you believe Time exists, then God exists.

 

[Boss]

Most of the discussion here is at the level of philosophers thousands of years. Science knows much more about time today. People here are talking about the “instantaniousness” of time. However, time, energy and some other physical concepts always carry an uncertainty.

“This is not a statement about the inaccuracy of measurement instruments, nor a reflection on the quality of experimental methods; it arises from the wave properties inherent in the quantum mechanical description of nature. Even with perfect instruments and technique, the uncertainty is inherent in the nature of things.”
Uncertainty principle

Saying “God is time” is a personal feeling. It should not be construed has having any basis in physical reality and gives no insight into what God or time really is. Understanding time is in the realm of physics. Understanding God is in the realm of religion.

What IS "physical reality"? Set aside your bias toward religious incarnations of God for a moment and think in terms of reality and what we perceive as reality. We cannot prove the present exists. The best we can do is observe the evidence of time which has passed. We have to rely on faith that present time exists or that a future time will exist. So is the past a part of reality?

 

[Boss]

My biggest question has always been, how was God created?

How is Time created? How much more is there? What is the source of Time? I love philosophical questions we can't answer, they challenge the mind and make us think.

Where is your evidence that spiritual things require "creating?"

 

[Boss]

Time, however, is constantly happening.

Time is anything but constant!

I did not say "time is constant." I said "time is constantly happening." This is also known as "the arrow of time" as it is happening in one direction. It appears to the observer time can happen faster or slower but again... we have no proof time exists in the present tense. All our perceptions are of time which has already passed.

 

[Boss]

If God is time, then the Bible lied or was wrong when it said God is eternal. Time is not eternal and was created during the Big Bang. Prior to that event, time didn't exist. So if God is time, then GOd didn't exist until the Big Bang created it.

There is not even proof the Big Bang ever happened. It's a theory and we have evidence which seems to suggest a big bang, but we can't prove it and the laws of physics don't support "singularity" which is the ultimate beginning point in the Big Bang theory.

I have stated that God is Time, but this is not to be construed as Time=God and God=Time. God can also be Time + random variable. Or Time could be God minus a random variable.

 

[Hollie]

If God is time, then the Bible lied or was wrong when it said God is eternal. Time is not eternal and was created during the Big Bang. Prior to that event, time didn't exist. So if God is time, then GOd didn't exist until the Big Bang created it.

There is not even proof the Big Bang ever happened. It's a theory and we have evidence which seems to suggest a big bang, but we can't prove it and the laws of physics don't support "singularity" which is the ultimate beginning point in the Big Bang theory.

I have stated that God is Time, but this is not to be construed as Time=God and God=Time. God can also be Time + random variable. Or Time could be God minus a random variable.

So, why not just acknowledge that your personal invention of gawds are whatever you want them to be. Gawds for any occasion.

 

[edthecynic]

Time, however, is constantly happening.

Time is anything but constant!

I did not say "time is constant." I said "time is constantly happening." This is also known as "the arrow of time" as it is happening in one direction. It appears to the observer time can happen faster or slower but again... we have no proof time exists in the present tense. All our perceptions are of time which has already passed.

 

[Wuwei]

Most of the discussion here is at the level of philosophers thousands of years. Science knows much more about time today. People here are talking about the “instantaniousness” of time. However, time, energy and some other physical concepts always carry an uncertainty.

“This is not a statement about the inaccuracy of measurement instruments, nor a reflection on the quality of experimental methods; it arises from the wave properties inherent in the quantum mechanical description of nature. Even with perfect instruments and technique, the uncertainty is inherent in the nature of things.”
Uncertainty principle

Saying “God is time” is a personal feeling. It should not be construed has having any basis in physical reality and gives no insight into what God or time really is. Understanding time is in the realm of physics. Understanding God is in the realm of religion.

What IS "physical reality"? Set aside your bias toward religious incarnations of God for a moment and think in terms of reality and what we perceive as reality. We cannot prove the present exists. The best we can do is observe the evidence of time which has passed. We have to rely on faith that present time exists or that a future time will exist. So is the past a part of reality?

What is physical reality? The perception of nature with our eyes and ears only gives us concepts that we sort of feel personally. That is not good enough. We have to more carefully observe nature. Today an exploration of reality requires measuring instruments of increasing complexity and sensitivity to gain knowledge of what is going on in nature.

Then we look for recurring patterns that can be codified. These are in the form of theories. The mathematics in the theories more exactly describe nature to a fine level of detail such as in quantum mechanics and relativity.

As far as time, it's the mathematics that tells us about the behavior of time. Many behaviors of time totally evade intuition. If you want some kind of faith, the faith should be that nature will follow explicit principles. In other words God is in the whole understanding of space, time, and matter, not just time. That is my view - pantheism, the belief that the Universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity,

Right, we can't prove the present exists, we can only describe it. The past only exists in memories and writings, and the future only exists in dreams. The past is not a part of reality, it is only the path that lead to the present, and may allow a vague prediction of the near future.

 

[edthecynic]

Time, however, is constantly happening.

Time is anything but constant!

I did not say "time is constant." I said "time is constantly happening." This is also known as "the arrow of time" as it is happening in one direction. It appears to the observer time can happen faster or slower but again... we have no proof time exists in the present tense. All our perceptions are of time which has already passed.

If time is "constantly happening" then time is constantly in the present. But you are claiming that time is constantly in the past, that it is lagging the present. That is the concept of a block universe.

"People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between the past,
the present and the future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion" -
- Albert Einstein

However if there were a block universe, slower moving masses with slower time would disappear into the past. Of course this does not happen. Black holes with their intense gravity that bring time to a screeching halt do not disappear from our present into the past.

Admit it, physics is completely beyond you!

 

[Boss]

Most of the discussion here is at the level of philosophers thousands of years. Science knows much more about time today. People here are talking about the “instantaniousness” of time. However, time, energy and some other physical concepts always carry an uncertainty.

“This is not a statement about the inaccuracy of measurement instruments, nor a reflection on the quality of experimental methods; it arises from the wave properties inherent in the quantum mechanical description of nature. Even with perfect instruments and technique, the uncertainty is inherent in the nature of things.”
Uncertainty principle

Saying “God is time” is a personal feeling. It should not be construed has having any basis in physical reality and gives no insight into what God or time really is. Understanding time is in the realm of physics. Understanding God is in the realm of religion.

What IS "physical reality"? Set aside your bias toward religious incarnations of God for a moment and think in terms of reality and what we perceive as reality. We cannot prove the present exists. The best we can do is observe the evidence of time which has passed. We have to rely on faith that present time exists or that a future time will exist. So is the past a part of reality?

What is physical reality? The perception of nature with our eyes and ears only gives us concepts that we sort of feel personally. That is not good enough. We have to more carefully observe nature. Today an exploration of reality requires measuring instruments of increasing complexity and sensitivity to gain knowledge of what is going on in nature.

Then we look for recurring patterns that can be codified. These are in the form of theories. The mathematics in the theories more exactly describe nature to a fine level of detail such as in quantum mechanics and relativity.

As far as time, it's the mathematics that tells us about the behavior of time. Many behaviors of time totally evade intuition. If you want some kind of faith, the faith should be that nature will follow explicit principles. In other words God is in the whole understanding of space, time, and matter, not just time. That is my view - pantheism, the belief that the Universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity,

Right, we can't prove the present exists, we can only describe it. The past only exists in memories and writings, and the future only exists in dreams. The past is not a part of reality, it is only the path that lead to the present, and may allow a vague prediction of the near future.

Okay, so the past (or time which has passed) is no longer reality. The past only exists in memory and the future only exists in dreams. Our perception of the present is a false perception because what we perceive has already happened. So we also can't observe present time. Quite the dilemma indeed. Does Time exist? It depends on Faith.

 

[Boss]

If time is "constantly happening" then time is constantly in the present. But you are claiming that time is constantly in the past, that it is lagging the present. That is the concept of a block universe.

No, I did not claim time is constantly in the past. I stated (correctly) that our perception of time can only be a perception of time which has already passed. We can't observe present time any more than we can observe future time, if future time exists at all.

 

[Boss]

What is physical reality? The perception of nature with our eyes and ears only gives us concepts that we sort of feel personally. That is not good enough. We have to more carefully observe nature.

But everything we can observe is in the past. Our perception of the present is actually the very most recent past. This is because of the speed of light. We look into the sky and see a star but we don't know if that star exists in the present, even though we see it in what we perceive as the present. We are seeing the light from thousands of years ago, it has taken that long to reach our eyes for us to observe. The star may not exist any longer, we don't know. Likewise, if you look at your reflection in the mirror, that was you a nano-second ago, not in the present. You cannot prove you exist in the present.

 

[edthecynic]

If time is "constantly happening" then time is constantly in the present. But you are claiming that time is constantly in the past, that it is lagging the present. That is the concept of a block universe.

No, I did not claim time is constantly in the past. I stated (correctly) that our perception of time can only be a perception of time which has already passed. We can't observe present time any more than we can observe future time, if future time exists at all.

We can only observe present time, only the perception of what we observed lags. Time is only and always in the present, perception of the present lags and conception of the future precedes.

 

[Wuwei]

Okay, so the past (or time which has passed) is no longer reality. The past only exists in memory and the future only exists in dreams. Our perception of the present is a false perception because what we perceive has already happened. So we also can't observe present time. Quite the dilemma indeed. Does Time exist? It depends on Faith.

If you worry too much about what you think is the present you can go batty. Look at the sun and see what it was 8 min ago. Look at a star and that is as it was millions of years ago.

If you consider the theory of relativity someone who is moving sees time differently than you. Playing with words? I don't think so. GPS satellites are in a lower gravitational field than us so time ticks slower due to general relativity. Your iPhone actually has to compensate for that time dilation or the reading would be a few feet off.

It makes me wonder if a "present" time can really be defined. It exists to us personally, but a lot of it is illusionary.

 

[Wuwei]

What is physical reality? The perception of nature with our eyes and ears only gives us concepts that we sort of feel personally. That is not good enough. We have to more carefully observe nature.

But everything we can observe is in the past. Our perception of the present is actually the very most recent past. This is because of the speed of light. We look into the sky and see a star but we don't know if that star exists in the present, even though we see it in what we perceive as the present. We are seeing the light from thousands of years ago, it has taken that long to reach our eyes for us to observe. The star may not exist any longer, we don't know. Likewise, if you look at your reflection in the mirror, that was you a nano-second ago, not in the present. You cannot prove you exist in the present.

LOL we both just said the same thing, while our posts crossed paths.