Greece tells banking cartel STICK IT

[SAYIT]

Greece needs to keep funding the fakes and phonies who are drawing the public trough, they are dependable Socialist voters!

Syriza and Independent Greeks (ANEL) aren't the ones that built the debt, in fact if anything the have the greatest chance to bring down the debt and stabilize the economy.

Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) and New Democracy are the two parties which built up the debt, hid figures, and were quite corrupt when they ruled Greece on and off from the 1970s to 2014.

Ultimately though PASOK is the party that forced the bailout and messed up the Greek economy, so with them out of the picture Greece has a chance to recover.

So Greece rather than 'funding fakes and phonies' has done the reverse of that by booting out the establishment, even if on the surface Syriza is far-left.

Greece's current gov't spending outstrips its revenues. There is little reason to believe revenues will be going up any time soon and new foreign loans are about to dry up. Without real cuts in spending - something Syriza adamantly rejects - the future of Greece is one of severe austerity. The new Drachmas will literally be worth less than the paper on which they'll be printed. BTW, default does not wipe out the debt. Nice work, guys.

 

[SAYIT]

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama jumps in with bailout help in order to prevent the appearance of another Russian victory.

Well, there is still the issue of US military bases in Greece: The Strategic Consequences of Grexit

There are also rumors that Athens might allow Russia the use of Greek military bases. Russia is expanding militarily in the Black Sea and the eastern part of the Mediterranean. Greece could also serve as a base for the Russians to strengthen their position in the Balkans. If Greece were to turn its back on NATO, it could become a geographical link between Russia and its Balkan vassal, Serbia -- a process that would link the three Christian-Orthodox nations of Russia, Serbia and Greece.

It would be a public embarrassment to the Obama administration if US military bases in Greece are forced to close, as a result of not supporting Greece financially, and Russian military bases are set up there instead.

In fact, there is a NATO issue but the chance that Russia will buy in is pretty slim.

 

[blackhawk]

Greece through it's own stupidity wrecks it's economy has been bailed out twice not paid back any of the money that I'm aware of and now want another bailout with better terms only a government mind could come up with that. If any of us had taken two huge loans out defaulted on both then ask the bank for a thrid loan with better terms for us I think we know what the response would and should be.

 

[hipeter924]

Greece needs to keep funding the fakes and phonies who are drawing the public trough, they are dependable Socialist voters!

Syriza and Independent Greeks (ANEL) aren't the ones that built the debt, in fact if anything the have the greatest chance to bring down the debt and stabilize the economy.

Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) and New Democracy are the two parties which built up the debt, hid figures, and were quite corrupt when they ruled Greece on and off from the 1970s to 2014.

Ultimately though PASOK is the party that forced the bailout and messed up the Greek economy, so with them out of the picture Greece has a chance to recover.

So Greece rather than 'funding fakes and phonies' has done the reverse of that by booting out the establishment, even if on the surface Syriza is far-left.

Greece's current gov't spending outstrips its revenues. There is little reason to believe revenues will be going up any time soon and new foreign loans are about to dry up. Without real cuts in spending - something Syriza adamantly rejects - the future of Greece is one of severe austerity. The new Drachmas will literally be worth less than the paper on which they'll be printed. BTW, default does not wipe out the debt. Nice work, guys.

Not true, it agreed to nearly all the terms - but couldn't cut pensions without the equivalent of the collapse of the government and massive civil unrest. Governments have to cut what is politically achievable to cut.

Do you think Americans would politically accept a 90% cut in the US military budget, as well as closing down programs like Medicare and Medicaid just to cut back the US national debt?

I doubt such cuts could be passed, even if doing those things would cut down the national debt.

 

[The Rabbi]

No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

Why should they, if Greek's leaders fucked up their own economy?

Because they either get it figured out, or eat the debt.

The most powerful position isn't when you have billions, its when you have nothing. What can anyone do to you.

As I said, Greece was going to have tough times ahead no matter what. At least now they have a say in how the ladder that they can climb out of this hole is built.

The whole thing to this point, was them trying to figure it out. Greece just refused.

Look, if your brother-in-law opens a business, and you lend him $10,000... and he comes back two months later asking for another $10,000.... do you just give him the cash? "Oh, hopefully he'll figure it out......" No, you ask to see the books, and what his sales were, and what his revenue is, and profit margin.

If you notice he's spending thousands of dollars on A/C for his building, which eats up the profits... what are you going to do?

You say, brother... you need to turn off the AC, until you build the business enough to afford it.

Because if he doesn't.... he'll just need more money and more money until you end up broke.

So if he wants to get more money from you..... he has to make changes to the economy of the business, so it's profitable.

If he doesn't.... then he doesn't get anymore money.

Greece was going broke. They asked for more money. The EU said 'sure if you make these changes to your economy, so you can pay us back.... otherwise you are not getting another loan'.

The people of Greece just said no.... so the EU is going to say... NO.

That's how that works.

Red Herring argument.

You can't compare the economy of a country to the utter simplicity of loaning your brother money. It sounds 'folksy' and like it is the same, but it isn't. Not by a million miles.

If the Greek people just want to lounge around and get paid, why did they just reject this offer of more financial help then? Surely by your estimation they know they are headed into much tougher times.

No one likes to be told what to do with a knife to their throat. And on a national scale such things even lead to wars.

They were told by their leaders they could hold out for better terms. That Europe would not let them leave because it would be disaster for the European Union.
Like fools they beleived them.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama jumps in with bailout help in order to prevent the appearance of another Russian victory.

Well, there is still the issue of US military bases in Greece: The Strategic Consequences of Grexit

There are also rumors that Athens might allow Russia the use of Greek military bases. Russia is expanding militarily in the Black Sea and the eastern part of the Mediterranean. Greece could also serve as a base for the Russians to strengthen their position in the Balkans. If Greece were to turn its back on NATO, it could become a geographical link between Russia and its Balkan vassal, Serbia -- a process that would link the three Christian-Orthodox nations of Russia, Serbia and Greece.

It would be a public embarrassment to the Obama administration if US military bases in Greece are forced to close, as a result of not supporting Greece financially, and Russian military bases are set up there instead.

In fact, there is a NATO issue but the chance that Russia will buy in is pretty slim.

The fact that Europe would even think of leaving a Eurozone, Euro, and Nato member out to dry like this DOES get noticed by Russia, China, Isis, and every other bad player on Earth, AND it gets noticed by other Eurozone and Nato members.

If Greece is ejected, likely the Eurozone and the Euro will have a hard time surviving over the long run. And you can bet Russia will look with eager eyes at bases in Greece.

 

[SAYIT]

i am surprised Donald Trump hasnt offered to buy Greece before it goes on ebay.

You have to wait for it to default and go bankrupt first, doubt anyone would touch it with a stick right now - let alone Trump.

Countries don't do bankruptcy ... they just default. I'd bet most of Greece's debt must be repaid in hard (Euros, Dollars) currency and Drachmas will be of little value within Greece and of no value elsewhere. The current actions did nothing to solve Greece's long-term economic issues and exacerbated their short-term problems.
Not too bright.

 

[hipeter924]

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama jumps in with bailout help in order to prevent the appearance of another Russian victory.

Well, there is still the issue of US military bases in Greece: The Strategic Consequences of Grexit

There are also rumors that Athens might allow Russia the use of Greek military bases. Russia is expanding militarily in the Black Sea and the eastern part of the Mediterranean. Greece could also serve as a base for the Russians to strengthen their position in the Balkans. If Greece were to turn its back on NATO, it could become a geographical link between Russia and its Balkan vassal, Serbia -- a process that would link the three Christian-Orthodox nations of Russia, Serbia and Greece.

It would be a public embarrassment to the Obama administration if US military bases in Greece are forced to close, as a result of not supporting Greece financially, and Russian military bases are set up there instead.

In fact, there is a NATO issue but the chance that Russia will buy in is pretty slim.

The fact that Europe would even think of leaving a Eurozone, Euro, and Nato member out to dry like this DOES get noticed by Russia, China, Isis, and every other bad player on Earth, AND it gets noticed by other Eurozone and Nato members.

If Greece is ejected, likely the Eurozone and the Euro will have a hard time surviving over the long run. And you can bet Russia will look with eager eyes at bases in Greece.

I think the Eurozone would have to work harder to appease Italy, Spain, and Portugal - rather than risk them leaving; and regardless of what happens the EU will have contend with stronger demands from the UK to reform the Eurozone.

 

[SAYIT]

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama jumps in with bailout help in order to prevent the appearance of another Russian victory.

Well, there is still the issue of US military bases in Greece: The Strategic Consequences of Grexit

There are also rumors that Athens might allow Russia the use of Greek military bases. Russia is expanding militarily in the Black Sea and the eastern part of the Mediterranean. Greece could also serve as a base for the Russians to strengthen their position in the Balkans. If Greece were to turn its back on NATO, it could become a geographical link between Russia and its Balkan vassal, Serbia -- a process that would link the three Christian-Orthodox nations of Russia, Serbia and Greece.

It would be a public embarrassment to the Obama administration if US military bases in Greece are forced to close, as a result of not supporting Greece financially, and Russian military bases are set up there instead.

In fact, there is a NATO issue but the chance that Russia will buy in is pretty slim.

The fact that Europe would even think of leaving a Eurozone, Euro, and Nato member out to dry like this DOES get noticed by Russia, China, Isis, and every other bad player on Earth, AND it gets noticed by other Eurozone and Nato members.

If Greece is ejected, likely the Eurozone and the Euro will have a hard time surviving over the long run. And you can bet Russia will look with eager eyes at bases in Greece.

Greece doesn't want to give up her place in NATO and there's no mechanism for ejection from the EZ. They will call the separation voluntary and temporary in order to keep Greeks feeling a part of Europe but in this case, temporary may mean 100 yrs. Defaulting on the IMF loan was a major FUBAR and Russia is in no condition to offer substantial financial help.

 

[Steinlight]

The "knife that Greece had to it's throat" was of it's own making. The alleged "fascist" banking cartel would offer liberal debit conditions to a bankrupt country. What other offers does the country consider? Russia would probably give them a good deal.

All debt everywhere is 'of its own making'.

And part of the point is, if Europe can turn their back on the cradle of democracy and have them even THINK of going to Russia for help, there is something very wrong with this picture.

Greece in fact should be demanding the derivatives criminals on Wall Street who, with Bush and the Republicans, created the 2008 crash that caused this worldwide misery to pay the bill. But of course the IMF wouldn't think of asking 'some of their own' to be held accountable for their actions.

It was in fact a knife being held to the throat of the Greek people. And they said 'fuck off'. Good for them.

European democracies have lost their way, and it is the financial institutes that are responsible.

Wall Street and George Bush forced Greece to spend beyond their means? How so?

I agree, at this point there is no way they can pay back this debt they accrued, but they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[hipeter924]

i am surprised Donald Trump hasnt offered to buy Greece before it goes on ebay.

You have to wait for it to default and go bankrupt first, doubt anyone would touch it with a stick right now - let alone Trump.

Countries don't do bankruptcy ... they just default. I'd bet most of Greece's debt must be repaid in hard (Euros, Dollars) currency and Drachmas will be of little value within Greece and of no value elsewhere. The current actions did nothing to solve Greece's long-term economic issues and exacerbated their short-term problems.
Not too bright.

Bankruptcy of nations is not the same as with individuals or businesses, as obviously the debt isn't wiped, and either of those situations (like defaults or bankruptcy) cuts nations off from financial markets.

It continues until the country is able to settle with its creditors and pay up at least some of the amount.

Take Argentina's case for example. It has defaulted on its debt many times, and declared bankruptcy, but it failed to settle with all its creditors - so it remains in a financial mess.

Greece by far is in a worse situation though, as it is uncertain how they could even settle with some of their creditors right now.

 

[Jackson]

The big question is,,,,Are Americans taking notice? If our government keeps growing and we keep paying more and more Americans not to work....look at what happens to us. We cannot sustain the payouts we've honored. We will be in trouble...Greece style. It's just a matter of time.

 

[hipeter924]

The big question is,,,,Are Americans taking notice? If our government keeps growing and we keep paying more and more Americans not to work....look at what happens to us. We cannot sustain the payouts we've honored. We will be in trouble...Greece style. It's just a matter of time.

Not really, as unlike Greece, most of the US national debt is internal public debt (as in debt that is based in the US) or is owned by US based banks and financial institutions. But it is worrying that most budget projections have the US building up debt, so that by 2050 the US debt held by the public could be equivalent (in terms of GDP ratio) to what Italy, Spain or Portugal are now facing.

 

[HenryBHough]

If Americans' don't learn from this it'll be their own fault when Obama shows them how much He learned.

 

[Shrimpbox]

The ant and the grasshopper. Now the way it works is that the real suffering of real,people will be plastered all over the TV. Clowns like the new pm of Greece will demagogue the issue. Guilt,will be assigned to those with money and a conspiracy will be claimed that will e taken up by the liberal news media. Let's see, does heartless, greedy, uncaring, inhuman, lack of compassion, ruthless, capitalist, right wing scum ring any bells. The story is always the same as are the tactics.

Can we please applaud the genius of Margaret Thatcher. Socialism works fine til you run out of other people's money.

 

[SAYIT]

Greece needs to keep funding the fakes and phonies who are drawing the public trough, they are dependable Socialist voters!

Syriza and Independent Greeks (ANEL) aren't the ones that built the debt, in fact if anything the have the greatest chance to bring down the debt and stabilize the economy.

Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) and New Democracy are the two parties which built up the debt, hid figures, and were quite corrupt when they ruled Greece on and off from the 1970s to 2014.

Ultimately though PASOK is the party that forced the bailout and messed up the Greek economy, so with them out of the picture Greece has a chance to recover.

So Greece rather than 'funding fakes and phonies' has done the reverse of that by booting out the establishment, even if on the surface Syriza is far-left.

Greece's current gov't spending outstrips its revenues. There is little reason to believe revenues will be going up any time soon and new foreign loans are about to dry up. Without real cuts in spending - something Syriza adamantly rejects - the future of Greece is one of severe austerity. The new Drachmas will literally be worth less than the paper on which they'll be printed. BTW, default does not wipe out the debt. Nice work, guys.

Not true, it agreed to nearly all the terms - but couldn't cut pensions without the equivalent of the collapse of the government and massive civil unrest. Governments have to cut what is politically achievable to cut...

When Greece took the bailout they signed on to the terms. They reneged. Let's not twist ourselves into pretzels just to excuse the actions of fellow socialists, eh?

 

[Synthaholic]

we owe 18 Trillion dollars!!

Thanks Dubya!

Obama the most powerless greatest President Evah!!!

Well, you're right, Frank, that the president doesn't have the power to raise revenue - that's strictly the Republican House's responsibility.

 

[Synthaholic]

I've noticed that you never have anything of value to add to the conversation

Then fuck off, retard.

 

[Synthaholic]

You are the biggest stinking fool on this board.
Debt was 10T when Bush left office.
Debt is 18T today.
Debt will be 20T when Barry leaves.

Yeah, that's called interest, dope.

Strike 1.

 

[Synthaholic]

What has Barry done to undo all this "damage" you say Bush caused? Nothing.

Only the House of Representatives control the money.

Strike 2, dope.