Guide To The Liberal Mind

[thereisnospoon]

Speaking of which:

Democrats support unions and unions kick back donations to Democrats. Without unions Democrats couldn't compete with Republicans for campaign funds. Unions chase businesses put of states and even chase em out of the country. So Democrats not only attack businesses with taxes and massive regulations, but they also back the groups primarily responsible for job loss in America.

Why did unions push companies out of the USA?

In 1998 Ford had record profits and employees got record level profit sharing.

You righties like to blame unions for things the GOP and Corporations did to themselves on purpose. They were able to go bankrupt and renig on pensions, move jobs overseas, cut wages and benefits, lower wages, get tax breaks passed that normally we wouldn't give but we were in a "recession" and they said it would help job creation.

And now you guys want to blame Obama because wages are down. If Romney would Prez you'd be bragging about this recovery. Fuck you guys.

Just stop it with the unions. That horse has left the barn. Unions are NOT coming back. Reason? Nobody wants them.
One important fact that you ignore is that like any other business, labor unions operate in their own self interest. That means, they wish to turn a profit. They do this off the backs of the people they claim to represent. In the end, unions will eat the low hanging fruit and move on..
A perfect example is the Stella D'Oro bakery in the Bronx, NY. HBO did a documentary on the strike by United Food and Commercial Workers local 342.
The contract expired and of course the union wanted a new deal. The plant was struggling financially and management went to the table with a set of concessions. One was that instead of the workers contributing nothing to their health benefits, the company wanted 10% of the cost from the workers. The union would not negotiate. The company wanted wage concessions in the form of reduced overtime which many of the workers said they depended upon to as one worker said "send my kids to private school and one to a private university. Another worker wondered how he would be able to keep his vacation home in the Poconos, without overtime.
IN any event the company and the workers were at an impasse. They decided to take the matter to court. The court ruled in favor of the union. The workers celebration was short lived. The company immediately shut the plant and sold it to another bakery company. That new firm never reopened the plant. They took the equipment out, sent it to other bakeries under their ownership and sold the building and property.
The issue here is had those workers taken the jobs with concessions, they'd all be working today. So instead of 95% they decided on ZERO %....Real friggin smart.
40 or 50 years ago, the business was over a barrel. Unions no longer have that kind of clout.
BTW, that union the UFCW is thriving as its management still have jobs and still pay the managers and delegates very well. So who won?.....Not the workers.

I will not stop. Politics is a pendulum. Since 2000 the pendulum has swung your way but the system isn't working for all of us right now and if the GOP keep being so blatantly anti labor people are going to finally wake up and realize they are labor and how for the last 40 years the GOP have fucked the middle class.

Thank god for the internet so people aren't being brainwashed with the corporate media that is only liberal on social issues. BFD.

Then you engage in futility. The facts and time are not on your side. You are arguing into an empty glass. Screeching to an empty room.
The pendulum? Are you kidding? Your side has been holding it back...Should the GOP win control of the US Senate which is quite likely, then the pendulum will begin to swing slowly back to the right. With the emphasis on slowly. The country requires balance. A condition denied us for the last 6 plus years.
Just stop it. Why do you insist on exposing your foolishness?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I was thinking more along the lines of your list.
Less work hours - for Coal Miners
National Parks and Forests, the FDA, most of them on that list were Theodore Roosevelt (R) ideas and were expanded by his Cousin FDR (D)
They took the ideas of Lincoln and Ted Roosevelt and made them into the Democrats ideas, then lied about it and said that it was always their ideas.

Who said anything about republicans?

We are talking about conservatives

The thread is about Liberal minds not conservatives.

Then why are you bringing up republicans?

Because this is how the liberal mind works.
In the face of overwhelming evidence that refutes their narrative, libs will attack those presenting the facts by using unsubstantiated accusations and insults.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Do you drool while you post?

Are you challenging me to produce examples which support my post?
Please don't do that. You'll only wind up embarrassed. So just drop it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I was thinking more along the lines of your list.
Less work hours - for Coal Miners
National Parks and Forests, the FDA, most of them on that list were Theodore Roosevelt (R) ideas and were expanded by his Cousin FDR (D)
They took the ideas of Lincoln and Ted Roosevelt and made them into the Democrats ideas, then lied about it and said that it was always their ideas.

Who said anything about republicans?

We are talking about conservatives

The thread is about Liberal minds not conservatives.

Then why are you bringing up republicans?

Because this is how the liberal mind works.
In the face of overwhelming evidence that refutes their narrative, libs will attack those presenting the facts by using unsubstantiated accusations and insults.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Do you drool while you post?

On the drooling part? Yeah, when there is a glass of milk and a package of Chips Ahoy just sitting in front of me. Any other questions?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Increasing wages doesn't do either. As a matter of fact it drives the price up.

Facts not on evidence. The price of cars actually came down when Henry Ford increased wages.

You could avoid appearing so ignorant by actually googling before you post such patently absurd falsehoods.

http://www.thehenryford.org/education/erb/HenryFordAndInnovation.pdf

View attachment 32038

Go back to Model Ts then.

Henry Ford didn't have all of the overhead they have today.

The price came down because instead of building them one by one they invented the assembly-line which increased production.

Read your own posts shithead.

Pay the workers enough so they can afford to buy the products they make. Even Walmart employees can't afford walmart products. That's why they go on foodstamps.

They sure don't worry about overhead when paying Mary GM CEO Mary Barra s compensation will be worth about 14.4 million Detroit Free Press freep.com

What about decreasing cost per unit don't you understand?

A corporation that operates in America has to both make a profit and benefit the citizens. If it doesn't, it can fuck off.

Define "benefit"...
Please tell me you don't believe in the myth of symbiotic relationship between business and community....

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

 

[jasonnfree]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

 

[Boss]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

I'm betting you've never read Marx? You should read the Communist Manifesto, it sounds as if it could be the DNC platform.

You demonstrate a point made in the OP about the liberal mind when you mention NAFTA. Liberals supported it, some Republicans supported it, so a Democrat signed it into law, claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread. As conservatives predicted, it has been a terrible thing for us. Now comes the liberal laying the blame on conservatives, oblivious to the facts.

Like a dog returning to it's vomit, you are back to talking about the "middle class" as if America is only comprised of people belonging to established classes they can't escape. The fact is, in a free capitalist system, people move into and out of this so-called "middle class" all the time.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

I'm betting you've never read Marx? You should read the Communist Manifesto, it sounds as if it could be the DNC platform.

You demonstrate a point made in the OP about the liberal mind when you mention NAFTA. Liberals supported it, some Republicans supported it, so a Democrat signed it into law, claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread. As conservatives predicted, it has been a terrible thing for us. Now comes the liberal laying the blame on conservatives, oblivious to the facts.

Like a dog returning to it's vomit, you are back to talking about the "middle class" as if America is only comprised of people belonging to established classes they can't escape. The fact is, in a free capitalist system, people move into and out of this so-called "middle class" all the time.

Me a liberal? Shows how much time you spend reading other people's posts instead of starting new ones prefaced with "the great read" your blockbuster will be. So quit running your mouth and get down to the hard work of writing, and rewriting, and rewriting, and rewriting. Then ask mommy to give you a ride down to the post office so you can submit your hard copy to Oxford University Press. I'm sure the world awaits breathless for your remarkable insights on...well, whatever in hell it was you were going to write about.

 

[Boss]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

I'm betting you've never read Marx? You should read the Communist Manifesto, it sounds as if it could be the DNC platform.

You demonstrate a point made in the OP about the liberal mind when you mention NAFTA. Liberals supported it, some Republicans supported it, so a Democrat signed it into law, claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread. As conservatives predicted, it has been a terrible thing for us. Now comes the liberal laying the blame on conservatives, oblivious to the facts.

Like a dog returning to it's vomit, you are back to talking about the "middle class" as if America is only comprised of people belonging to established classes they can't escape. The fact is, in a free capitalist system, people move into and out of this so-called "middle class" all the time.

Me a liberal? Shows how much time you spend reading other people's posts instead of starting new ones prefaced with "the great read" your blockbuster will be. So quit running your mouth and get down to the hard work of writing, and rewriting, and rewriting, and rewriting. Then ask mommy to give you a ride down to the post office so you can submit your hard copy to Oxford University Press. I'm sure the world awaits breathless for your remarkable insights on...well, whatever in hell it was you were going to write about.

My reply was to JASONNFREE.

 

[rdean]

I would be far more interested in a comprehensive study of the partisan mind.

.

Republicans believe if you don't believe their idiocy, you must be a partisan. OK, I'm a partisan. I don't like failure and stupid.

Not even Republicans can name successful GOP policies. Yet, they still support the ignorant.

 

[hipeter924]

Considering finishing my novel mockery of Ayn Rands dystopia, the remade dystopia consists of a corporate controlled tyranny of the majority where democracy is a total sham*, with the inventor type hero trying to start a revolution - as only corporations have political rights. But it gets too depressing.

*Which is what would happen if the false free market forces ever won in America, and corrupted the govt totally to the core.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

Might have something to do with Obama actually running for office under the banner of a Marxist party. I know, it's a stretch right, why would anyone believe that a politician running under a Marxist banner would actually be a Marxist. It's not like people actually believe that people who join Al Queda are actual Al Queda followers.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Be sure to include Carl Jung in your footnotes. Karl Marx too. Of course you have to read them first.

American middle class made it's most gains from the election of FDR until around 1995 when Clinton decided to cave in and enact republican policies like nafta and ending welfare as we know it. These years, the republicans almost never controlled congress. Careful what you wish for if you think republicans will ever do anything for anybody but the very wealthy. Why are people always bringing up Marx anyway. We've never had a marxist politician although some have been led to believe Obama is one when he's not being a muslim.

Might have something to do with Obama actually running for office under the banner of a Marxist party. I know, it's a stretch right, why would anyone believe that a politician running under a Marxist banner would actually be a Marxist. It's not like people actually believe that people who join Al Queda are actual Al Queda followers.

How many black people in this country aren't Marxists? 10%? And as to our president being a commie, well hey, stop the presses.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Considering finishing my novel mockery of Ayn Rands dystopia, the remade dystopia consists of a corporate controlled tyranny of the majority where democracy is a total sham*, with the inventor type hero trying to start a revolution - as only corporations have political rights. But it gets too depressing.

*Which is what would happen if the false free market forces ever won in America, and corrupted the govt totally to the core.

Oooo...one of those evil...errr...corporationie thingies, huh?

 

[elektra]

Republicans and Democrats are both bad, as are the Libertarians and the Independents. Liberals are every bad person who ever existed in history, NAZI's same as today's liberal, Che and the Communists same as today's Liberals.

Maybe its as simple that spending money for people is bad, borrowing against the future and spending it creates bad people.

People working in the Government Bureaucracy, bad.

Time to privatize, limit the size of all State and Federal and City and County governments to one simple small tax on a dollar spent.

Power is money, taxing is power, take away all those government workers, the endless departments, the constantly changing laws, end the ability to borrow and tax.

Bickering about people's mind while the government runs amok, its a beast, a simple change of who steps into the driver's seat will not change its direction.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The argument from the left is that big business has no moral compass and no sense of patriotism or duty to any country or market and the republicans gladly and without embarrassment let corporate people like that run our country for their own selfish ends.

Big business (capitalists) do not exist to exemplify patriotism, promote social values, or devote themselves to moral causes dreamed up by liberals. They exist to do one thing, make a profit. Now sometimes it helps in the effort to make profits to be patriotic or devote themselves to causes, and when this is the case, they often do so. But primarily, their mission is to make as much profit as possible.

You view this as "greed" but it isn't. It's just what capitalists do. What is "greed" is sitting on your liberal ass and expecting your government to confiscate wealth you didn't earn and give it to you.

I know this, it's why I shudder when republicans say that they will bring big business values to government. Capitalism is amoral by your definition, do you want an amoral government concerned only with cash flow? I don't, I want a government that is concerned with the well being of it's citizens. Remember them? Those things that republicans and democrats alike are fond of calling "consumers".

Correct.


And this goes to the idiocy common to most on the right that government should be 'run like a business,' when in fact the notion is ignorant and ridiculous.

It's working very well where it has been done. Like that town in Canada.
Hazel McCallion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Hazel McCallion
Her principles are grounded in the belief that a city should be run like a business.

When you live in a well regulated Democracy with a single payer health care system and good EPA regulations it is possible to run a city government like a business. Notice that her priorities are healthcare and education which are the exact opposite of conservatives who are trying to eliminate funding for these programs here in the USA.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Well here we see the one area of capitalism where a person can make too much money.

If you're in business you have to be able to produce something people not only want to buy but can afford.

Which is one of the reasons why Henry Ford increased the wages of his workers.

Increasing wages doesn't do either. As a matter of fact it drives the price up.

Facts not on evidence. The price of cars actually came down when Henry Ford increased wages.

You could avoid appearing so ignorant by actually googling before you post such patently absurd falsehoods.

http://www.thehenryford.org/education/erb/HenryFordAndInnovation.pdf

View attachment 32038

Go back to Model Ts then.

Henry Ford didn't have all of the overhead they have today.

The price came down because instead of building them one by one they invented the assembly-line which increased production and cut the number of man-hours needed to produce each car.

Read your own posts shithead.

Resorting to puerile vulgarities is a tacit concession that you have surrendered your position. Have a nice day.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Utter nonsense since the FF did not espouse libertarian principles or set up the constitution to support them.

LMAO... Sure they did. What part of "secure the blessings of liberty" are you having trouble with?

That expression does not have a libertarian trademark. But thanks for admitting that the FF were not libertarians.

That expression is very much a libertarian trademark, how is it not? I didn't admit the FF were not libertarian. Many of their views are very much in line with libertarian philosophy. As I said, the closest thing today to what the majority of FF were is the libertarian wing of the Tea Party movement.

What the FF weren't is Communist Socialists and Marxists.

The FF were not libertarians because the term itself didn't even come into use until after the constitution was written. Your own perverted brand of "right-libertarianism" wasn't spawned up until the middle of the 20th century so it is utter hogwash at allege that the FF's were libertarians.

Originally liberatarians were socialists who became communists.

As usual you just throw you own ignorant feces around hoping that some of it will stick.

keep telling yourself that lie.

Onus is on you to refute my position. Not holding my breath waiting.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Oooo scary, you got all serious and shit. No one wants to bring it down Mr. Big Bossman they just want to take the Psychopaths out of the equation. Do you think capitalism can work without undue exploitation or fraud? If it's that awesome then a return of some lost faith is nothing but a good thing. A lot of people have lost faith in capitalism because they did everything right and still failed. Shouting at people and calling them commies and infidels for noticing the warts and blemishes of your awesome economic religion is never going to restore anyone's faith.

America never put a guarantee to succeed in the bill of rights. Communism sure doesn't.

Your side rigged the rules. Its our government's job to undo what the mega rich have done through Bush and the GOP and the Supreme Court.

No wonder the GOP needed to steal 2000. They already planned on invading Iraq that's we know for sure and they wanted to appoint Alito and Roberts so they could pass Citizens United.

You are so wrong. Gore tried to steal the election in 2000 and failed, thank goodness. Libtarded logic at its best fails.

And I bet global warming isn't man made, right?

it isn't. And there is NO global warming. The eastern 2/3rds of the US just went through two of the coldest winters on record. The NWS long range forecast is for another unusually cold winter.

Your feeble grasp of global climate change shows a profound lack of comprehension.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I know this, it's why I shudder when republicans say that they will bring big business values to government. Capitalism is amoral by your definition, do you want an amoral government concerned only with cash flow? I don't, I want a government that is concerned with the well being of it's citizens. Remember them? Those things that republicans and democrats alike are fond of calling "consumers".

I want an amoral government only concerned with cash flow and the limited power it is granted under the constitution. Let the people define their own morals and address their own social concerns, it's not the government's place. Whenever government becomes involved in "do-good-ism" it fails. We have countless examples of that.

You say you're concerned with the "well being" of citizens, but repeatedly we've seen one liberal initiative after another fail to produce results. We've spent upwards of $20 trillion on social entitlement programs and we have as many people living in poverty as before we started. We're now spending $13,000 per child for education that lags behind the rest of the industrialized world. We've totally priced ourselves out of the manufacturing sector with unionized labor. On and on, one liberal initiative to "help people" after another has failed to help anyone but the politicians who continue to dangle a carrot for idiots like yourself, and push us closer and closer to totalitarian socialism and away from constitutional freedom.

We have spent many more trillions on the military and yet, we still have wars

I'd rather spend money on our people

Tell me, when was the last conflagration on US soil?
Ok, now that you've gotten that one, now you know why a strong military is essential to keep it that way...By keeping our armed forces equipped, we are in effect spending money on the people.

Name a single nation capable of a military invasion of the USA.