Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[2aguy]

You are such a moron....you know that he chose that isn't how it happened.....he shot a gun in the head, and walked up and past that guy...the guy who was shot was merely wounded instead of having his brains blown out, got up behind the guy and tackled him...the old lady laid on the ground as the killer approached hoping he wouldn't shoot her....and he was tackled within arms reach of her, so she reached out and grabbed the dropped magazine...

Dumb luck....but there was a concealed carry permit holder there ready to shoot the guy....

YOu know this story, and you pretend you don't...you are a troll...

The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s StoryAmerican Handgunner | American Handgunner

And from this...he wasn't tackled during a magazine change, he shot a guy, Bill Badger, and thought he killed him...he let badger get behind him and that is when he was tackled, then the old lady got the magazine after she laid on the ground in front of loughner trying to be a small target.....

Brain is wrong....

from the article...

And another point for you brain and for you bfgrn...the only reason they were able to wrestle him....just plain, stupid luck........otherwise, he would have reloaded and kept shooting...he missed this guy....



Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.
Not rushing the guy during a magazine change brain, and Bfgrn...he thought the guy was dead....after he shot him...and let Bill Badger get behind him.......you are wrong again brain....

And what did the old lady do....

Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.





The story as I put it in my post....



no one rushed the guy as he was changing magazines....

The shooter shot one guy in the head...but instead of killing him he grazed him and he fell to the ground. Thinking he had killed the guy, named Bill.....the shooter advanced up to where the guy had fallen.....the guy said he was able to then rise up and grab the shooter.....it was an instance of pure, dumb luck...had the shooter hit the guy in the head and killed him...no one would have stopped him...had he just stayed in place or moved in another direction, no one would have stopped him by charging him....

And the woman, who allegedly grabbed the magazine out of his hand...another myth.....

The woman saw the shooter advancing on her....she didn't think she could run away so she decided to just lay down and hoped he would just pass her by.....as she was laying on the ground, the guy who was shot in the head tackled the shooter...and they fell right in front of the woman.....so close she just had to extend her arm and grab his magazine........

another instance of dumb luck....

And...oh yeah....the magazine apparently malfunctioned...which is why he was changing it....he didn't run out of ammo...had the magazine not failed he would have kept shooting too....

the 3rd instance of dumb luck at the shooting....

And by the way....there were two concealed carry permit holders ready to shoot the guy....but by then he had been tackled and dealt with...no one mentions that, do they.....?

Here is the story from the actual participants....the video from ABC news has an interview with the guy who was shot in the head......

The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s StoryAmerican Handgunner | American Handgunner


from the article...


Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

----Aftermath/Afterthoughts
Joe was prepared to stop the killer with gunfire if he had to. He says today, “I was just truly blessed I didn’t have to pull my firearm. I didn’t have to go to that place




And what did the old lady do....

in this link there is a pop up video of the interview with the guy named Bill, who was shot in the head...but just grazed.....

Bill Badger, the guy who initially tackled him states the shooter was right next to him as he got up....he got up off of the ground and the shooter had walked right up close to him, allowing him to grab him....

Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.



The Gifford's shooting was not stopped by heroic people rushing the shooter as he changed magzines because he ran out of bullets......it was stopped by 3 incidents of dumb luck that came together that allowed heroic people to take the guy down.....otherwise the concealed carrier would have shot him.....

He stopped firing and dropped his reload magazine.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21] He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.

I just posted the entire story....which shows you were lying.......and you still post the lie....you are such a troll...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

------


Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.

yes he stopped firing when he dropped his magazine trying to reload.

Troll....it was dumb luck, had he actually killed Bill "badger" he would have kept shooting...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

And you want as many people killed as possible...

He was stopped at reload. Had he needed to reload sooner there would be fewer shot.

No....he let a victim get too close cause he thought the victim was dead...moron...

And there were two conceald carriers ready to shoot him had they failed...you know that too and you lie about it...you are a troll...

 

[Cellblock2429]

There was no anti-gun culture in America until the Soviet Union started meddling in our internal affairs.

/—-/ It started with the JFZk assignation

 

[Brain357]

He stopped firing and dropped his reload magazine.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21] He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.

I just posted the entire story....which shows you were lying.......and you still post the lie....you are such a troll...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

------


Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.

yes he stopped firing when he dropped his magazine trying to reload.

Troll....it was dumb luck, had he actually killed Bill "badger" he would have kept shooting...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

And you want as many people killed as possible...

He was stopped at reload. Had he needed to reload sooner there would be fewer shot.

No....he let a victim get too close cause he thought the victim was dead...moron...

And there were two conceald carriers ready to shoot him had they failed...you know that too and you lie about it...you are a troll...

Thankfully he had to reload and was stopped.

The carriers have said they would have shot the wrong person...

 

[DrLove]

Troll....it was dumb luck, had he actually killed Bill "badger" he would have kept shooting...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

NRA Troll or bot ^ ^ ^ The same hysterical, recycled, cut & pasted garbage over and over and .....

Y'all will have to excuse me now, gonna go watch my golf tape. Pretty fun seeing Tiger playing so well again!

I'll be sure to keep my Glock handy in case of a home invasion or zombie apocalypse.

 

[Brain357]

Getting worse with the high powers guns legally available:

 

[2aguy]

Agree - The AR is a weapon of war. Am I for banning them? Nope - too many out there. But they are indeed the weapon of choice for those hellbent on carnage and their ability to do so is well documented by ER physicians:

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

Tighten up the rules, databases, BG checks AND the ability of cops to take them away from kooks like Nikolas Cruz who had over 50 reports to law enforcement yet, in the Gunshine State - they were powerless.

Newtown - the same heart wrenching story:

High capacity magazines should be banned. Let them keep the guns.

Magazine capacity has nothing to do with mass shootings dumb ass...the last guy and the guy in Santa Barbara used 10 round magazines....you are such a moron...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

Funny, was Vegas and Orlando in this "study"?

Yes...the actual research shows you are a moron.....

And Vegas....used 2 rifles to murder 58 people.....

Orlando, used a rifle, shotgun and pistol to murder 49 people in a gun free zone...

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental truck and murdered 86 people in 5 minutes....

Cars are deadlier than rifles...

We have mass shootings regularly. Has France had more of those attacks?

They had terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists......with criminal records....get fully automatic military rifles, handgrenades and pistols with "high capacity" magazines in a counry where all of that is completely illegal and banned.......the only reason they haven't had more is their terrorists changed to trucks because they can kill more people with them.....

And regular criminals get fully automatic rifles easily as well...

Five things to know about guns in France

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.
===========

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.

 

[LuckyDuck]

And that is a lie.....Britain, France, Norway, Belgium .....they have mass shootings, they have fewer, but that is due to culture and values not gun control...you know this, you lie about knowing it...you are a troll.

Sure they have them, very rarely. Having one every few years isn't a problem. We have them regularly. Only the US with the most guns and the weakest laws has them regularly. And they are getting worse.

The actual number of mass public shootings since 1982......

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US

And that is a lie.....Britain, France, Norway, Belgium .....they have mass shootings, they have fewer, but that is due to culture and values not gun control...you know this, you lie about knowing it...you are a troll.

Sure they have them, very rarely. Having one every few years isn't a problem. We have them regularly. Only the US with the most guns and the weakest laws has them regularly. And they are getting worse.

The actual number of mass public shootings since 1982......

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US

And Orlando was the worst ever, oh wait then Vegas was quickly the worst ever. More people are dying and semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines are being used to kill them really quickly.

Orlando was a gun free zone.....and if you heard the witnesses from inside the club...had they been allowed to carry guns they could have stopped the shooter.....watch the program Active Shooter......on Showtime......they tell us that the shooter was vulnerable at all times to a civilian with a gun...but it was a gun free zone....so those people died defenseless...

They had armed security. He was outgunned because the shooter had a semi auto rifle with high capacity magazines. These need to be banned.

So, tell me how the millions of private citizens who own semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines, are completely law-abiding, no threat to you or your loved ones, are safety minded and hate what a few "deranged" idiots have done, a threat to you?

 

[2aguy]

Getting worse with the high powers guns legally available:

No...moron....the shooters are learning from the ones who came before, they are picking out their democrat gun free zones and choosing unarmed targets......using long range and tightly packed unarmed crowds...moron.........

 

[2aguy]

Are you involved in criminal activity? If not you won't be attacked by several people, grow up.

Smaller magazines will allow you to practice your reload more often.

Again, the worst mass shootings have been done with high capacity magazines for a reason. They allow the shooter to fire many more rounds without having to reload. The are made for mass killing.

Agree - The AR is a weapon of war. Am I for banning them? Nope - too many out there. But they are indeed the weapon of choice for those hellbent on carnage and their ability to do so is well documented by ER physicians:

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

Tighten up the rules, databases, BG checks AND the ability of cops to take them away from kooks like Nikolas Cruz who had over 50 reports to law enforcement yet, in the Gunshine State - they were powerless.

Newtown - the same heart wrenching story:

High capacity magazines should be banned. Let them keep the guns.

And that would solve what exactly????

Fewer people shot. The police would not be so outgunned. Look at Tucson, shooter stopped at reload.

You just had the truth posted more than once...and you still post the lie...you are atroll.....

 

[2aguy]

I just posted the entire story....which shows you were lying.......and you still post the lie....you are such a troll...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

------


Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.

yes he stopped firing when he dropped his magazine trying to reload.

Troll....it was dumb luck, had he actually killed Bill "badger" he would have kept shooting...

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

And you want as many people killed as possible...

He was stopped at reload. Had he needed to reload sooner there would be fewer shot.

No....he let a victim get too close cause he thought the victim was dead...moron...

And there were two conceald carriers ready to shoot him had they failed...you know that too and you lie about it...you are a troll...

Thankfully he had to reload and was stopped.

The carriers have said they would have shot the wrong person...

Wrong, moron......you just can't help yourself, you have to lie every time you post.

 

[Brain357]

Tough Gun Control Laws in Australia Really Have Stopped Mass Shootings, Study Shows

 

[Brain357]

High capacity magazines should be banned. Let them keep the guns.

Magazine capacity has nothing to do with mass shootings dumb ass...the last guy and the guy in Santa Barbara used 10 round magazines....you are such a moron...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

Funny, was Vegas and Orlando in this "study"?

Yes...the actual research shows you are a moron.....

And Vegas....used 2 rifles to murder 58 people.....

Orlando, used a rifle, shotgun and pistol to murder 49 people in a gun free zone...

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental truck and murdered 86 people in 5 minutes....

Cars are deadlier than rifles...

We have mass shootings regularly. Has France had more of those attacks?

They had terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists......with criminal records....get fully automatic military rifles, handgrenades and pistols with "high capacity" magazines in a counry where all of that is completely illegal and banned.......the only reason they haven't had more is their terrorists changed to trucks because they can kill more people with them.....

And regular criminals get fully automatic rifles easily as well...

Five things to know about guns in France

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.
===========

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.

Again, how many truck attacks since that one? We have mass shootings regularly.

 

[DrLove]

Yes...the actual research shows you are a moron.....

And Vegas....used 2 rifles to murder 58 people.....

Orlando, used a rifle, shotgun and pistol to murder 49 people in a gun free zone...

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental truck and murdered 86 people in 5 minutes....

Cars are deadlier than rifles...

We know exactly where you get most of your "research" - Gig's up

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I see you avoided answering the question. Good call on your part.

The school shooter didn't use any high capacity magazines. Aren't you happy about that?

The one in Vegas, Orlando, and the church in TX sure did. And you think the one in the school shooting didn't why?

Why? Because they don't make that much of a difference, that's why.

If you knew anything about guns, you'd realize that changing a magazine only takes about two seconds--one second or less if you practice at it:

If you truly believe that then you should have no problem with banning high capacity magazines. Your own argument says you don't need them. Given how you guys fight for them you clearly don't believe your own argument.

Sometimes they aren't so easy to reload.

When you are in a defensive situation, most of your shots will miss the target. This is normal. If you are attacked by several people, you will need all the rounds you can get. Most of us don't carry an extra magazine on the street.

Plus high capacity magazines are better for target practice. When you are in a shooting stance and concentrating on your aim, the last thing you need is to keep stopping every four rounds to reload.

In other words, limited magazine size won't stop one mass shooting, but it will inconvenience most everybody else. And if limited magazines were in place the last five years, and Cruz still killed as many as he did, would you be satisfied that we had magazine restrictions, or would you want to advance to your next idea? Because that's exactly what would happen.

Are you involved in criminal activity? If not you won't be attacked by several people, grow up.

Smaller magazines will allow you to practice your reload more often.

Again, the worst mass shootings have been done with high capacity magazines for a reason. They allow the shooter to fire many more rounds without having to reload. The are made for mass killing.

I live in a pretty crime filled area. In many cases of people getting assaulted here, there are more than one attackers.

You don't need to practice reloading, you need to practice on your shooting though. If you are trying to zone in on a spot, you make adjustments while you you are shooting. Stopping to reload all the time kind of interrupts that process.

So again, the school shooter did not use high capacity magazines. Are you satisfied with the results?

 

[Brain357]

Getting worse with the high powers guns legally available:

No...moron....the shooters are learning from the ones who came before, they are picking out their democrat gun free zones and choosing unarmed targets......using long range and tightly packed unarmed crowds...moron.........

Vegas wasn't a gun free zone, and that's the worst ever. But he did have semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines.

 

[Brain357]

The one in Vegas, Orlando, and the church in TX sure did. And you think the one in the school shooting didn't why?

Why? Because they don't make that much of a difference, that's why.

If you knew anything about guns, you'd realize that changing a magazine only takes about two seconds--one second or less if you practice at it:

If you truly believe that then you should have no problem with banning high capacity magazines. Your own argument says you don't need them. Given how you guys fight for them you clearly don't believe your own argument.

Sometimes they aren't so easy to reload.

When you are in a defensive situation, most of your shots will miss the target. This is normal. If you are attacked by several people, you will need all the rounds you can get. Most of us don't carry an extra magazine on the street.

Plus high capacity magazines are better for target practice. When you are in a shooting stance and concentrating on your aim, the last thing you need is to keep stopping every four rounds to reload.

In other words, limited magazine size won't stop one mass shooting, but it will inconvenience most everybody else. And if limited magazines were in place the last five years, and Cruz still killed as many as he did, would you be satisfied that we had magazine restrictions, or would you want to advance to your next idea? Because that's exactly what would happen.

Are you involved in criminal activity? If not you won't be attacked by several people, grow up.

Smaller magazines will allow you to practice your reload more often.

Again, the worst mass shootings have been done with high capacity magazines for a reason. They allow the shooter to fire many more rounds without having to reload. The are made for mass killing.

I live in a pretty crime filled area. In many cases of people getting assaulted here, there are more than one attackers.

You don't need to practice reloading, you need to practice on your shooting though. If you are trying to zone in on a spot, you make adjustments while you you are shooting. Stopping to reload all the time kind of interrupts that process.

So again, the school shooter did not use high capacity magazines. Are you satisfied with the results?

Sure you do. The people who have multiple attackers are themselves criminals.

 

[2aguy]

Tough Gun Control Laws in Australia Really Have Stopped Mass Shootings, Study Shows

That study is a lie.....when you have individuals who walk into public spaces with guns and shoot people, and the only thing that keeps that shooting from being a mass public shooting is the shooter decided not to shoot more people...or the people he shot over the number 4 didn't die.......that is not Australian gun control stopping mass shootings...that is a lie....and dumb luck...

Explain how Australian gun control stopped these shootings from being mass public shootings...they are all long past the gun confiscation...

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

25 January 1996 – Hillcrest murders – Peter May shot and killed his three children, his estranged wife and her parents in the Brisbane suburb of Hillcrest before killing himself.[54]

• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
  
  
  
• 
  
• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• • 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[131]
  
  
• • 10 September 2015 – Karin Lock was shot dead in a McDonald's restaurant in the Gold Coast by her ex-husband Stephen Lock, who then turned the gun on himself and shot himself dead.[140][141][142]
  
  
• • 7 March 2016 - Finks bikie gang member Wayne Williams armed himself with an AK 47 rifle and shot and killed Michael Bassal and shot and wounded his brothers Terry Bassal and Mark Bassal outside an industrial building in the suburb of Ingleburn Sydney. Williams then barricaded himself inside the building and took three hostages, resulting in a siege and stand off with police. He later released the three hostages and shot himself dead. The shootings were committed as a result of a business deal gone wrong.[citation needed]

• 29 April 2016 - A gunman opened fire inside the Centro shopping centre in Bankstown, Sydney. He shot and killed convicted criminal Walid Ahmad, shot and wounded a man who was with Ahmad, and also wounded a woman who was an innocent bystander. The shooting was targeted and was committed as a result of an ongoing feud between two rival Middle Eastern organised crime gangs.[144]

• 7 June 2017 - 2017 Brighton siege. Somali immigrant Yacqub Khayre took a female prostitute hostage in a serviced apartment complex in the suburb of Brighton in Melbourne and then shot dead the complex clerk Nick Hao. He enticed police to the complex and made references to Islamic terrorist groups before dying in a shoot-out with police with three police officers wounded.[153]

 

[Brain357]

Sure they have them, very rarely. Having one every few years isn't a problem. We have them regularly. Only the US with the most guns and the weakest laws has them regularly. And they are getting worse.

The actual number of mass public shootings since 1982......

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US

Sure they have them, very rarely. Having one every few years isn't a problem. We have them regularly. Only the US with the most guns and the weakest laws has them regularly. And they are getting worse.

The actual number of mass public shootings since 1982......

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US

And Orlando was the worst ever, oh wait then Vegas was quickly the worst ever. More people are dying and semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines are being used to kill them really quickly.

Orlando was a gun free zone.....and if you heard the witnesses from inside the club...had they been allowed to carry guns they could have stopped the shooter.....watch the program Active Shooter......on Showtime......they tell us that the shooter was vulnerable at all times to a civilian with a gun...but it was a gun free zone....so those people died defenseless...

They had armed security. He was outgunned because the shooter had a semi auto rifle with high capacity magazines. These need to be banned.

So, tell me how the millions of private citizens who own semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines, are completely law-abiding, no threat to you or your loved ones, are safety minded and hate what a few "deranged" idiots, a threat to you?

Those people are helping to arm the maniacs who do kill lots of people.

 

[2aguy]

Getting worse with the high powers guns legally available:

No...moron....the shooters are learning from the ones who came before, they are picking out their democrat gun free zones and choosing unarmed targets......using long range and tightly packed unarmed crowds...moron.........

Vegas wasn't a gun free zone, and that's the worst ever. But he did have semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines.

The Hotel was a gun free zone...the concert was a gun free zone......moron......

The Vegas shooter killed 58 with 2 rifles firing over 1,000 rounds of ammo into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people.....

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France murdered 86 people with a rental truck in 5 minutes of driving....

Rental Trucks are deadlier than rifles......

And knives kill more people than all rifles, every single year.....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

 

[Brain357]

Tough Gun Control Laws in Australia Really Have Stopped Mass Shootings, Study Shows

That study is a lie.....when you have individuals who walk into public spaces with guns and shoot people, and the only thing that keeps that shooting from being a mass public shooting is the shooter decided not to shoot more people...or the people he shot over the number 4 didn't die.......that is not Australian gun control stopping mass shootings...that is a lie....and dumb luck...

Explain how Australian gun control stopped these shootings from being mass public shootings...they are all long past the gun confiscation...

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

25 January 1996 – Hillcrest murders – Peter May shot and killed his three children, his estranged wife and her parents in the Brisbane suburb of Hillcrest before killing himself.[54]

• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
  
  
  
• 
  
• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• • 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[131]
  
  
• • 10 September 2015 – Karin Lock was shot dead in a McDonald's restaurant in the Gold Coast by her ex-husband Stephen Lock, who then turned the gun on himself and shot himself dead.[140][141][142]
  
  
• • 7 March 2016 - Finks bikie gang member Wayne Williams armed himself with an AK 47 rifle and shot and killed Michael Bassal and shot and wounded his brothers Terry Bassal and Mark Bassal outside an industrial building in the suburb of Ingleburn Sydney. Williams then barricaded himself inside the building and took three hostages, resulting in a siege and stand off with police. He later released the three hostages and shot himself dead. The shootings were committed as a result of a business deal gone wrong.[citation needed]

• 29 April 2016 - A gunman opened fire inside the Centro shopping centre in Bankstown, Sydney. He shot and killed convicted criminal Walid Ahmad, shot and wounded a man who was with Ahmad, and also wounded a woman who was an innocent bystander. The shooting was targeted and was committed as a result of an ongoing feud between two rival Middle Eastern organised crime gangs.[144]

• 7 June 2017 - 2017 Brighton siege. Somali immigrant Yacqub Khayre took a female prostitute hostage in a serviced apartment complex in the suburb of Brighton in Melbourne and then shot dead the complex clerk Nick Hao. He enticed police to the complex and made references to Islamic terrorist groups before dying in a shoot-out with police with three police officers wounded.[153]

Gee they didn't just have another school shooting. When was their last mass shooting? How about the UK? We have them regularly here.