Hamas is preventing Palestinian civilians from fleeing north Gaza

[Seymour Flops]

I haven't a solution.

I don't think they are Egypt's problem, any more than the world's poor are the problem of America. They should not be forced to have an open border anymore than we should be forced to be.

If Egypt said, "Sure, on one condition. . . give us the money to air lift them into JFK. . ." You be fine with that?

I sure as hell wouldn't be.

Perhaps this IS a genuine refugee crisis, and they should be separated among a few nations that can handle the load. . . Canada, the US, Australia, Brazil, etc. ? I can't say.

All of that is very valid. My point is that Israel should be the last country to be asked to take in Palestinians. It would be costly and troublesome for Egypt. It would be suicide for Israel.

And to the second point, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, half the Gaza strip's population are kids. Sure, some of the teens have already been indoctrinated to be Jew haters, just like much of our population and Israel are racist Arab haters. . .

. . . but, a good portion of that population does not hate, I have no doubt. Just as the majority of the members here on USMB are good folks.

A few MAGA folks throw up some racist Klan rhetoric, or Nazi paraphernalia, and how does the left characterize ALL MAGA folks? That is the same thing that goes on here, but there is a lot more truth to it, since 60 some percent of the adult population in Gaza do support these terrorists. But it does not hold for all the children and all the other adults. And it gives Israel an excuse to make all of Gaza into an open air prison.

In my experience, people are the same, the world over. There is no reason for us to engage in fallacies of composition, when discussing solutions to this problem to justify our beliefs based on their beliefs, actions and emotions of despicable terrorist organization.

Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes pick out ten thousand random strangers in my area and likely not more than a handful are home invaders who rob and kill. But I keep my doors locked to ALL random strangers.

 

[Mac-7]

I only go looking for the facts. It really is stunning how even the left leaning media here, emphasizes the Israeli point of view.

I do read and view progressive media though. The facts are, the injury and death toll on the Pali side make this conflict as un-even as the conflict between the Native Americans and the USA, TBH. So, when you know the full, complete history, and the unbiased facts? It really isn't strange at all.

The fact is that arabs refused the UN two state compromise in 1948 and that is the root cause of all their suffering today

 

[WEATHER53]

Hamas
Those who provide succor and cover for them
And liberals if a party has done something to piss off Hammyasses.

 

[MinTrut]

Hamas WANTS Palestinian civilians to die for the political hit to Israel.

Soulless ghouls.

IF this is true...

...HUGE if...

...your position is that HAMAS should aid Israel in committing ethnic cleansing and other massive war crimes?

Are you upset that the Soviets fought against the Nazis?

Do you condemn that?

How DARE they oppose Germany's lawful and orderly extinction of those they considered subhuman, right?

The moral insanity here is staggering...

 

[struth]

IF this is true...

...HUGE if...

...your position is that HAMAS should aid Israel in committing ethnic cleansing and other massive war crimes?

Are you upset that the Soviets fought against the Nazis?

Do you condemn that?

How DARE they oppose Germany's lawful and orderly extinction of those they considered subhuman, right?

The moral insanity here is staggering...

Haha what? Hamas is aiding Israel? Geez…once again you can’t help but ignore reality in your demafasict attempts to deflect and blame israel for what hamas is doing

 

[buttercup]

You DO KNOW, who created Hamas in the first place, right?

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It​

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

web.archive.org

This is something that people need to look at. This might be a topic for a thread of its own, but it has become clear to me that many here don't realize that the "war on terror" has been used by the globalists as a pretext for bringing about their own agendas. James Corbett did a talk on this topic a few years ago...about how we went from the "war on terror" to the new biosecurity paradigm. Just like in the book 1984, there always has to be an elusive enemy that is the perfect pretext for manipulating the public into just about anything.

Before anyone bites my head off, I'm not saying that terrorism isn't real, of course it is. But as you pointed out, Mister Beale, there's more to it than meets the eye when you look at how those terrorist groups got started in the first place. It's not as simplistic and binary as people are making it out to be, and the government and MSM version of events cannot be trusted. They are known liars.

 

[MisterBeale]

This is something that people need to look at. This might be a topic for a thread of its own, but it has become clear to me that many here don't realize that the "war on terror" has been used by the globalists as a pretext for bringing about their own agendas. James Corbett did a talk on this topic a few years ago...about how we went from the "war on terror" to the new biosecurity paradigm. Just like in the book 1984, there always has to be an elusive enemy that is the perfect pretext for manipulating the public into just about anything.

Before anyone bites my head off, I'm not saying that terrorism isn't real, of course it is. But as you pointed out, Mister Beale, there's more to it than meets the eye when you look at how those terrorist groups got started in the first place. It's not as simplistic and binary as people are making it out to be, and the government and MSM version of events cannot be trusted. They are known liars.

There is no point. I have posted it three or four times in a few different threads. No one gives it a react, and no one comments on it. Most folks cannot integrate it into their epistemological world view, so the information, for them, DOES NOT EXIST. I know your world view. . . for you and I, since our feet are firmly grounded in reality, it is easy to integrate.

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reduction​

"Cognitive dissonance theory proposes that people seek psychological consistency between their expectations of life and the existential reality of the world. To function by that expectation of existential consistency, people continually reduce their cognitive dissonance in order to align their cognitions (perceptions of the world) with their actions.

The creation and establishment of psychological consistency allows the person affected with cognitive dissonance to lessen mental stress by actions that reduce the magnitude of the dissonance, realized either by changing with or by justifying against or by being indifferent to the existential contradiction that is inducing the mental stress.[3] In practice, people reduce the magnitude of their cognitive dissonance in four ways:

1. Change the behavior or the cognition ("I'll eat no more of this doughnut.")
2. Justify the behavior or the cognition, by changing the conflicting cognition ("I'm allowed to cheat my diet every once in a while.")
3. Justify the behavior or the cognition by adding new behaviors or cognitions ("I'll spend thirty extra minutes at the gymnasium to work off the doughnut.")
4. Ignore or deny information that conflicts with existing beliefs ("This doughnut is not a high-sugar food.")

Three cognitive biases are components of dissonance theory. There is a bias where one feels they do not have any biases. The bias where one is "better, kinder, smarter, more moral and nicer than average" is confirmation bias.[7]

That consistent psychology is required for functioning in the real world also was indicated in the results of The Psychology of Prejudice (2006), wherein people facilitate their functioning in the real world by employing human categories (i.e. sex and gender, age and race, etc.) with which they manage their social interactions with other people. . . . "

 

[struth]

There is no point. I have posted it three or four times in a few different threads. No one gives it a react, and no one comments on it. Most folks cannot integrate it into their epistemological world view, so the information, for them, DOES NOT EXIST. I know your world view. . . for you and I, since our feet are firmly grounded in reality, it is easy to integrate.

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reduction​

"Cognitive dissonance theory proposes that people seek psychological consistency between their expectations of life and the existential reality of the world. To function by that expectation of existential consistency, people continually reduce their cognitive dissonance in order to align their cognitions (perceptions of the world) with their actions.

The creation and establishment of psychological consistency allows the person affected with cognitive dissonance to lessen mental stress by actions that reduce the magnitude of the dissonance, realized either by changing with or by justifying against or by being indifferent to the existential contradiction that is inducing the mental stress.[3] In practice, people reduce the magnitude of their cognitive dissonance in four ways:

1. Change the behavior or the cognition ("I'll eat no more of this doughnut.")
2. Justify the behavior or the cognition, by changing the conflicting cognition ("I'm allowed to cheat my diet every once in a while.")
3. Justify the behavior or the cognition by adding new behaviors or cognitions ("I'll spend thirty extra minutes at the gymnasium to work off the doughnut.")
4. Ignore or deny information that conflicts with existing beliefs ("This doughnut is not a high-sugar food.")

Three cognitive biases are components of dissonance theory. There is a bias where one feels they do not have any biases. The bias where one is "better, kinder, smarter, more moral and nicer than average" is confirmation bias.[7]

That consistent psychology is required for functioning in the real world also was indicated in the results of The Psychology of Prejudice (2006), wherein people facilitate their functioning in the real world by employing human categories (i.e. sex and gender, age and race, etc.) with which they manage their social interactions with other people. . . . "

The globalists “war on terror” did not behead babies in Israel, nor did they put Roadblocks to prevent civilians from fleeing southern Gaza.

 

[JustAGuy1]

I only go looking for the facts. It really is stunning how even the left leaning media here, emphasizes the Israeli point of view.

I do read and view progressive media though. The facts are, the injury and death toll on the Pali side make this conflict as un-even as the conflict between the Native Americans and the USA, TBH. So, when you know the full, complete history, and the unbiased facts? It really isn't strange at all.

There it is, the "proportionate" response argument. That's not the way it's done old boy.

 

[buttercup]

The globalists “war on terror” did not behead babies in Israel,

Last I heard, the Israeli government said they cannot confirm the beheaded babies story. So where is your confirmation for that? Some MSM reporters even apologized for putting that story out there when it later turned out to be unconfirmed.

 

[buttercup]

Also, struth, I'm curious, what are your thoughts about the "babies pulled out incubators" story that pulled at the heartstrings of our nation and was the catalyst for the Gulf War in the early 90's, which turned out to be a lie?

To be clear, I'm not claiming that the 40 beheaded babies story is a lie, but I'm just asking you what you think about the babies in incubators story. Thanks!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Also, struth, I'm curious, what are your thoughts about the "babies pulled out incubators" story that pulled at the heartstrings of our nation and was the catalyst for the Gulf War in the early 90's, which turned out to be a lie?

To be clear, I'm not claiming that the 40 beheaded babies story is a lie, but I'm just asking you what you think about the babies in incubators story. Thanks!

wow who cares if they were beheaded or not they were murdered, and some were burned afterwards. Or are you denying babies were murdered too?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Last I heard, the Israeli government said they cannot confirm the beheaded babies story. So where is your confirmation for that? Some MSM reporters even apologized for putting that story out there when it later turned out to be unconfirmed.

If the government did, would you believe them anyway?

And the report came from a reporter, not an official government source -- so no "conspiracy" here, just an UNVERIFIED report

What we actually know about the viral report of beheaded babies in Israel

One journalist from the Tel Aviv-based news channel i24 said a soldier told her they had "witnessed… bodies of babies with their heads cut off" at the Kfar Aza kibbutz near the Gaza border - but no Israeli officials have confirmed the claim.

www.google.com

 

[buttercup]

wow who cares if they were beheaded or not they were murdered, and some were burned afterwards. Or are you denying babies were murdered too?

I agree that the method of killing isn't what matters, I asked him what his confirmation was. Because last I heard, the Israeli government stated it was unconfirmed. Maybe that changed in the last couple days? If so, where is the confirmation? That's what I was asking him.

 

[MisterBeale]

I think if you looked hard enough you will find that each of those assaults in Gaza were precipitated by attacks into Israel. The decided to FAFO.

. . . and that? Is the source of this disagreement with you and I not seeing eye to eye on all of this.

Hell, you don't even believe that Gaza is occupied, or that the Palestinian people are occupied. If you are in basic denial of objective reality? I am not sure I can converse with you in any meaningful way.

The whole world, except the US and Israel, recognize that these people are oppressed and live in an apartheid regime. Your denial of such? Has not a lot of currency. And our arguing over it, leads us no where productive. Gaza is an open air concentration camps. Palestinians are not afforded the same rights as settlers in the West Bank, these are basic facts.

When young men see disparate and unequal treatment and discrimination, rapes and assaults go unpunished in the system, land is seized and stolen, houses demolished, and lives ruined? They begin to throw stones at their oppressors after protests are made illegal or do not bring justice.

Your blindness to this, or excuse making? meh w/e.

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert​

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert

Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory said on Thursday.

news.un.org

Paradigm shift ​

".. . The report calls for “a paradigm shift”, which entails moving away from the narrative of “conflict” between Israelis and Palestinians, and recognition of Israel’s “intentionally acquisitive, segregationist and repressive settler-colonial occupation.”

Ms. Albanese urged the international community to formally acknowledge and condemn the settler-colonial nature of the Israeli occupation. . . "

Israel-Palestine: ‘Meaningful initiatives’ needed soon, to reverse current course

The UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process told the Security Council on Wednesday, that since the adoption in December 2016 of resolution 2334, which demands Israel stop building new settlements on Palestinian land, there’s been “little progress” implementing it.

news.un.org

The real cause, of most of this latest conflict, you will probably find, lay in Israel no respecting or complying with UN Resolution 2334.

Resolution 2334

unscr.com

 

[MisterBeale]

The fact is that arabs refused the UN two state compromise in 1948 and that is the root cause of all their suffering today

That is false. The UN two state solution was rejected by Israel. The Israeli two state solution was rejected by the Palestinians.

Edit: I was partially wrong on this. See above post and below;

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JustAGuy1]

. . . and that? Is the source of this disagreement with you and I not seeing eye to eye on all of this.

Hell, you don't even believe that Gaza is occupied, or that the Palestinian people are occupied. If you are in basic denial of objective reality? I am not sure I can converse with you in any meaningful way.

The whole world, except the US and Israel, recognize that these people are oppressed and live in an apartheid regime. Your denial of such? Has not a lot of currency. And our arguing over it, leads us no where productive. Gaza is an open air concentration camps. Palestinians are not afforded the same rights as settlers in the West Bank, these are basic facts.

When young men see disparate and unequal treatment and discrimination, rapes and assaults go unpunished in the system, land is seized and stolen, houses demolished, and lives ruined? They begin to throw stones at their oppressors after protests are made illegal or do not bring justice.

Your blindness to this, or excuse making? meh w/e.

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert​

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert

Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory said on Thursday.

news.un.org

Paradigm shift ​

".. . The report calls for “a paradigm shift”, which entails moving away from the narrative of “conflict” between Israelis and Palestinians, and recognition of Israel’s “intentionally acquisitive, segregationist and repressive settler-colonial occupation.”

Ms. Albanese urged the international community to formally acknowledge and condemn the settler-colonial nature of the Israeli occupation. . . "
View attachment 843439

Israel-Palestine: ‘Meaningful initiatives’ needed soon, to reverse current course

The UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process told the Security Council on Wednesday, that since the adoption in December 2016 of resolution 2334, which demands Israel stop building new settlements on Palestinian land, there’s been “little progress” implementing it.

news.un.org

The real cause, of most of this latest conflict, you will probably find, lay in Israel no respecting or complying with UN Resolution 2334.

Resolution 2334

unscr.com

No intelligent person listens to the UN.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That is false. The UN two state solution was rejected by Israel. The Israeli two state solution was rejected by the Palestinians.

no it isnt in 1948 the Arabs refused to form a government and supported the invasion of Israel by Arab Countries. Israel begged the Arab inhabitants to stay and form a country with the Jews on their part and some did stay.

 

[AsherN]

Bingo.

I can't say either way. I willing to bet, given the population density of the strip, and how small it is, what AsherN wrote, "they have a lot of places to go outside Gaza City," is more than likely, a specious statement, though? I really have no idea.

I am willing to bet, since it has been blockaded, and even our congressmen and international aid workers can't get in there, that it was a dumb-ass comment pulled straight from his ass.

Size aside, Look at your own map. Look at the size of Gaza City. Look at the size of the rest of the strip. There are places for Gazans to go. Hamas does not want civilians to leave.

 

[AsherN]

All of that is very valid. My point is that Israel should be the last country to be asked to take in Palestinians. It would be costly and troublesome for Egypt. It would be suicide for Israel.

Yes pick out ten thousand random strangers in my area and likely not more than a handful are home invaders who rob and kill. But I keep my doors locked to ALL random strangers.

And let's not discouint all the Palestinians in refugee camps in Jordan, because the Jordanians don't want them either.