Hard Work DOESN'T Pay

[Bonzi]

... or does it? I think you are better off getting along with people to get ahead then to work hard.
Is that acceptable? Or do you disagree?

Have things changed or has it always been this way?

The American dream - that if you work hard, you'll get ahead - does not hold true anymore for a majority of American voters anymore. Fifty-seven percent say the principle that hard work brings reward once held true, but no longer does, while 34 percent say the American dream still holds true. A much smaller number - just 9 percent - say the American dream never held true in the first place. While half of financially secure voters believe in the tenet that working hard yields prosperity, 84 percent of voters facing economic hardship say it no longer works, or never did.
Majority of Voters Say the American Dream Is Dead

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Bonzi]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

 

[eagle1462010]

Everything I have is by the sweat of the brow.............I got it honest.................

I work with some now who got to be the Boss because they......... their way to the top. They are barely trainable but possibly could put a square peg in a round hole.............

One of them once threatened to fire me as I told him to kiss my ass...........I told him he sucked on his tools and as a boss...............which is true.........told him I had skills and he didn't...........not afraid to get fired........he hauled ass to whine to the top.............was told to shut up............

And I'm still there...............

 

[Bonzi]

Everything I have is by the sweat of the brow.............I got it honest.................

I work with some now who got to be the Boss because they......... their way to the top. They are barely trainable but possibly could put a square peg in a round hole.............

One of them once threatened to fire me as I told him to kiss my ass...........I told him he sucked on his tools and as a boss...............which is true.........told him I had skills and he didn't...........not afraid to get fired........he hauled ass to whine to the top.............was told to shut up............

And I'm still there...............

... I think you can get ahead by working hard BUT, you DO have to stand up for yourself and let it be known what your value is... many people take it for granted or are oblivious.

I got laid off once in my life - and after I left, talked to my girlfriend that still worked there and she was saying how they didn't realize how much I did there... lesson learned.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

Growing up I made friends with a Franciscan monk. Brown Jedi'esuqe robes and sandals. Had a big influence on me.

 

[BULLDOG]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

 

[Bonzi]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

If you can keep a roof over your head, have clean water and food, you are in good shape compared to a lot of the world. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices (smaller house, cheaper cell phone, 1 TV instead of 4 etc.) There are people that are genuinely hurting, there are others that have put themselves in their own predicament....

 

[BULLDOG]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

If you can keep a roof over your head, have clean water and food, you are in good shape compared to a lot of the world. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices (smaller house, cheaper cell phone, 1 TV instead of 4 etc.) There are people that are genuinely hurting, there are others that have put themselves in their own predicament....

Of course there are some who put themselves in a bad situation. Always have been. always will be. I just don't see those as the majority of the hurting.

 

[Bonzi]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

If you can keep a roof over your head, have clean water and food, you are in good shape compared to a lot of the world. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices (smaller house, cheaper cell phone, 1 TV instead of 4 etc.) There are people that are genuinely hurting, there are others that have put themselves in their own predicament....

Of course there are some who put themselves in a bad situation. Always have been. always will be. I just don't see those as the majority of the hurting.

I think a lot of it depends on your life experiences. Who you know that you are closest to. Most people I know cry poor, but, really could be quite well off if they weren't buying their kids everything in the world, and putting them in colleges they can't afford etc.

 

[Iceweasel]

Things have changed. Hard work is looked down on by many. It means you aren't smart enough to game the system and collect the big bucks because you are a cut above everyone else. Lots of people have lots of money are they really don't produce jack shit. They found a niche and milked that puppy dry.

There are those that worked hard and do quite well though but it's looking more and more like the exception to the rule. I work hard for myself, I don't want to be one of those riding in the wagon.

 

[Bonzi]

Reminds me of the movie BIG (with Tom Hanks) - when he gets a job as an adult, one of the co-workers tells him to stop working so hard because it makes the others look bad and they expectation level will go up....

I think I have done that on my current job. I like seeing how much I can get done it's like a game/competition to me...... makes it fun.

 

[Mac1958]

There are now many in this country who want the idea that hard work = success to be shunned.

Why? Because if you choose not to take care of yourself, someone else must.

What a horribly cynical way to gain political advantage: Convince people that hard work is hopeless.

That's part of the "you didn't build that", "you didn't earn that", "someone else made that happen" strategy. Nasty.
.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Majority of Voters Say the American Dream Is Dead"

The 'majority' of voters are wrong.

 

[Iceweasel]

Reminds me of the movie BIG (with Tom Hanks) - when he gets a job as an adult, one of the co-workers tells him to stop working so hard because it makes the others look bad and they expectation level will go up....

Been there, done that. Civil service and a hospital gig. The boss ordered me to slow down and take the mandatory breaks. He actually said the breaks are mandatory.

 

[Boss]

I think we all speak for our own experience which is why the polling data is all over the board. What does "hard work" mean today as related to yesteryear? And which yesteryear? Back in 1840, hard work was the measure of a man. As we progress through a change to a wage labor society, this whole 'ideal' starts to change. It becomes more and more about the 'smartness' of the man. Of course, a smart man can sometimes find a way to not have to work hard.

When I was about 14 or 15, I met a man... I think he was Jewish, he had a Jewish last name... he worked with my father but he was very old and wise. He often had these witty little 'twists' on sayings... once when he and I were discussing a task I was worried about not getting around to doing that day, he says.. "Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?" I really admired him, he reminded me of Ben Franklin or something... Anyway... one of the things he told me back then was: Find something you love doing and you'll never work a day in your life!"

I think that was when I pretty much decided to be my own boss, to call my own shots and make my own future. It was hard work. I missed a great deal of my first two children's lives and ruined a marriage because I loved what I was doing so much. Even back when I was still in high school and college, my friends would be partying and having the time of their life and I would be too busy making money.

I don't know that I regret any of it, but I do wish I had spent more time with my family and relaxed a little more along the way. But I am trying to do my best getting my share of that now.

 

[BULLDOG]

Think 'getting ahead' financially is overvalued. Like massively overvalued. Instead, people should be encouraged to find happiness and contentment in an empty room. If you can be happy and content with nothing, you can be happy and contentment with anything. That happiness and contentment shouldn't be dependent upon 'stuff.'

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

If you can keep a roof over your head, have clean water and food, you are in good shape compared to a lot of the world. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices (smaller house, cheaper cell phone, 1 TV instead of 4 etc.) There are people that are genuinely hurting, there are others that have put themselves in their own predicament....

Of course there are some who put themselves in a bad situation. Always have been. always will be. I just don't see those as the majority of the hurting.

I think a lot of it depends on your life experiences. Who you know that you are closest to. Most people I know cry poor, but, really could be quite well off if they weren't buying their kids everything in the world, and putting them in colleges they can't afford etc.

Again, I know plenty of them too. Those aren't the majority of people who depend on social programs.

 

[Bonzi]

I almost went off on that topic myself, but, thought maybe it was out of the realm a bit and deserved it's own thread.....

I think what once were considered luxuries are now considered necessities.....
People are "broke" because they think they are "owed" things in life that they can live without, but, instead of looking at themselves and their budget/cutting corners, they blame it on society/jobs etc.

I know lots of people who felt exactly the same way until they lost a job, or had some other setback that they had no control over. Just because you are lucky enough to have not had that kind of reversal doesn't mean that you are smarter or work harder. It just means you are luckier.

If you can keep a roof over your head, have clean water and food, you are in good shape compared to a lot of the world. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices (smaller house, cheaper cell phone, 1 TV instead of 4 etc.) There are people that are genuinely hurting, there are others that have put themselves in their own predicament....

Of course there are some who put themselves in a bad situation. Always have been. always will be. I just don't see those as the majority of the hurting.

I think a lot of it depends on your life experiences. Who you know that you are closest to. Most people I know cry poor, but, really could be quite well off if they weren't buying their kids everything in the world, and putting them in colleges they can't afford etc.

Again, I know plenty of them too. Those aren't the majority of people who depend on social programs.

I'll be honest, I don't know the people that are collecting welfare etc. I don't much about the system and what it takes to participate - you always hear about the people working the system, never those that truly need it. I am not doubting there are those that truly need assistance.....

 

[Bonzi]

"Majority of Voters Say the American Dream Is Dead"

The 'majority' of voters are wrong.

Depends on what your "DREAM" is ......