Has Fergussun Proved the Futility of Ending Racism?

[LoneLaugher]

For the past 50 years since the fight for the Civil Rights Act in 65, we have tried to end racism in this country.
And what do we have to show for it? Annual riots by minorities demanding more, angry about imagined slights like the totally justified shooting of Michael Brown, and now Eric Holder, supposedly our nations top Law Enforcement official goes to these criminals in Fergusun and tells them he shares their distrust of law enforcement? This is beyond stupidity and absurdity as Holder throws out any pretense of being anything other than a black AG.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the simple question; Has our attempt to end racism been a failure?

All we have to show for it is that whites cannot defend themselves, even if being beaten to death, if the perp is a black man. Even if you have all the law and God on your side, the establishment will ruin your life and the legal fees impoverish you and your family. Whites cannot talk about their interests, celebrate their heroes or talk about white culture or show pride in being white. All the while being surrounded by black radio stations, black news papers, black entertainment, and every other ethnic group has its own version of it all as well.

Now if this were a universal standard for all ethnicities then something might be established that is at least fair and just to all parties, but no, all minorities are encouraged to take racial pride, show racial UNITY (WTF?) and even conservative blacks like Colin Powell knows he has to vote for the black man Obama or be branded a race traitor for ever more. Even a supposed conservative like Bill O'Reilly went on a rant about some kids in Georgia a few years ago who did nothing more than have a private graduation celebration and he branded it a 'whites only prom' and the hatred that was directed at these white students from all over the country was simply disgusting, assinine and cretinous. And yet no one ever dared to point out and criticize the many ethnic centered graduations and proms that go on every year by hispanics, asians and blacks. That is all OK, only whites are forbidden to have such, and in our own god damned country.

All our effort to end racism has done is turn white people into punching bags, eternal victims and fucking epic losers. Show me another civilization aside from Western civilization where an ethnic group has abandoned all rights to defend itself even within its own borders. That is what we have come to, an impotent, group of ethnic losers who nature will erase if something does not change.

Would we be justified to look at what is considered justified ethnic pride/practice among minority populations and take the same tacks for ourselves? It seems that way

Enough is enough, fuck it. The effort to end racism is nothing more than a fools game with whites meant to be the eternal losers.

I once was proud to think I was not a racist, now I feel like I have been played for a sucker. Where do the facts show that feeling wrong?

It will only change when both blacks and whites realize that both are to blame. Many blacks need to do more to improve their own situation, and whites need to understand that blacks are still discriminated against daily.

That's all well and good but what happens if equality of outcome can never be realized? There will always be discontent in any group who is losing a contest. This is why liberals are so keen on giving participation trophies to losing sports teams, to ease some of the sting from losing. Good intentions don't matter if the outcome is not fair, where fair is not defined as equal opportunity but as equal outcomes.

Bullshit. I'm a liberal and I don't let my teams accept 2nd place trophies.....another meme busted by reality.

I'm registered independent. Many liberals are.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Those polls are bullshit, by the way.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Those polls are bullshit, by the way.

No, they're not. The capture the common thread of liberal/marxist thought - the desire for equality of outcomes. We see that in sporting events, we see that in race relations, we see that in gender relations, and we see that in the economic sphere. What is all the moaning and groaning about income inequality all about? It's about unequal outcomes. Liberals aren't complaining about society preventing liberal community organizers from quitting that racket and starting a business and becoming rich. That opportunity is there. There is equality of opportunity but liberals are focused on inequality of outcomes. This is what is at the heart of the liberal world view - they see it as "unfair" that some succeed and others don't. That's why we have participation trophies.

Going even further, look at the debates on minimum wage - liberals are always yammering on about how pay should be set to a person's worth or a person's effort, where a physician and a janitor who both work hard should be rewarded for their efforts, not for the outcomes that they produce.

 

[Rotagilla]

For the past 50 years since the fight for the Civil Rights Act in 65, we have tried to end racism in this country.
And what do we have to show for it? Annual riots by minorities demanding more, angry about imagined slights like the totally justified shooting of Michael Brown, and now Eric Holder, supposedly our nations top Law Enforcement official goes to these criminals in Fergusun and tells them he shares their distrust of law enforcement? This is beyond stupidity and absurdity as Holder throws out any pretense of being anything other than a black AG.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the simple question; Has our attempt to end racism been a failure?

All we have to show for it is that whites cannot defend themselves, even if being beaten to death, if the perp is a black man. Even if you have all the law and God on your side, the establishment will ruin your life and the legal fees impoverish you and your family. Whites cannot talk about their interests, celebrate their heroes or talk about white culture or show pride in being white. All the while being surrounded by black radio stations, black news papers, black entertainment, and every other ethnic group has its own version of it all as well.

Now if this were a universal standard for all ethnicities then something might be established that is at least fair and just to all parties, but no, all minorities are encouraged to take racial pride, show racial UNITY (WTF?) and even conservative blacks like Colin Powell knows he has to vote for the black man Obama or be branded a race traitor for ever more. Even a supposed conservative like Bill O'Reilly went on a rant about some kids in Georgia a few years ago who did nothing more than have a private graduation celebration and he branded it a 'whites only prom' and the hatred that was directed at these white students from all over the country was simply disgusting, assinine and cretinous. And yet no one ever dared to point out and criticize the many ethnic centered graduations and proms that go on every year by hispanics, asians and blacks. That is all OK, only whites are forbidden to have such, and in our own god damned country.

All our effort to end racism has done is turn white people into punching bags, eternal victims and fucking epic losers. Show me another civilization aside from Western civilization where an ethnic group has abandoned all rights to defend itself even within its own borders. That is what we have come to, an impotent, group of ethnic losers who nature will erase if something does not change.

Would we be justified to look at what is considered justified ethnic pride/practice among minority populations and take the same tacks for ourselves? It seems that way

Enough is enough, fuck it. The effort to end racism is nothing more than a fools game with whites meant to be the eternal losers.

I once was proud to think I was not a racist, now I feel like I have been played for a sucker. Where do the facts show that feeling wrong?

It will only change when both blacks and whites realize that both are to blame. Many blacks need to do more to improve their own situation, and whites need to understand that blacks are still discriminated against daily.

That's all well and good but what happens if equality of outcome can never be realized? There will always be discontent in any group who is losing a contest. This is why liberals are so keen on giving participation trophies to losing sports teams, to ease some of the sting from losing. Good intentions don't matter if the outcome is not fair, where fair is not defined as equal opportunity but as equal outcomes.

"Equality of outcome" is impossible.
Lions and hyenas are natural enemies and they are very careful around each other, especially when one of them has a fresh kill.

Now the hyenas have every OPPORTUNITY to take the kill from the lions. They can try any time they want.
The key is ABILITY. Do they have the ABILITY to do it. Sometimes they do..sometimes they don't.
If they have the ability they can get the kill...but if not, the lions damned sure aren't going to "redistribute" the "wealth".

 

[auditor0007]

For the past 50 years since the fight for the Civil Rights Act in 65, we have tried to end racism in this country.
And what do we have to show for it? Annual riots by minorities demanding more, angry about imagined slights like the totally justified shooting of Michael Brown, and now Eric Holder, supposedly our nations top Law Enforcement official goes to these criminals in Fergusun and tells them he shares their distrust of law enforcement? This is beyond stupidity and absurdity as Holder throws out any pretense of being anything other than a black AG.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the simple question; Has our attempt to end racism been a failure?

All we have to show for it is that whites cannot defend themselves, even if being beaten to death, if the perp is a black man. Even if you have all the law and God on your side, the establishment will ruin your life and the legal fees impoverish you and your family. Whites cannot talk about their interests, celebrate their heroes or talk about white culture or show pride in being white. All the while being surrounded by black radio stations, black news papers, black entertainment, and every other ethnic group has its own version of it all as well.

Now if this were a universal standard for all ethnicities then something might be established that is at least fair and just to all parties, but no, all minorities are encouraged to take racial pride, show racial UNITY (WTF?) and even conservative blacks like Colin Powell knows he has to vote for the black man Obama or be branded a race traitor for ever more. Even a supposed conservative like Bill O'Reilly went on a rant about some kids in Georgia a few years ago who did nothing more than have a private graduation celebration and he branded it a 'whites only prom' and the hatred that was directed at these white students from all over the country was simply disgusting, assinine and cretinous. And yet no one ever dared to point out and criticize the many ethnic centered graduations and proms that go on every year by hispanics, asians and blacks. That is all OK, only whites are forbidden to have such, and in our own god damned country.

All our effort to end racism has done is turn white people into punching bags, eternal victims and fucking epic losers. Show me another civilization aside from Western civilization where an ethnic group has abandoned all rights to defend itself even within its own borders. That is what we have come to, an impotent, group of ethnic losers who nature will erase if something does not change.

Would we be justified to look at what is considered justified ethnic pride/practice among minority populations and take the same tacks for ourselves? It seems that way

Enough is enough, fuck it. The effort to end racism is nothing more than a fools game with whites meant to be the eternal losers.

I once was proud to think I was not a racist, now I feel like I have been played for a sucker. Where do the facts show that feeling wrong?

It will only change when both blacks and whites realize that both are to blame. Many blacks need to do more to improve their own situation, and whites need to understand that blacks are still discriminated against daily.

That's all well and good but what happens if equality of outcome can never be realized? There will always be discontent in any group who is losing a contest. This is why liberals are so keen on giving participation trophies to losing sports teams, to ease some of the sting from losing. Good intentions don't matter if the outcome is not fair, where fair is not defined as equal opportunity but as equal outcomes.

Those on the right continually get it wrong with the silly notion that moderates and liberals support equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity. This may be the biggest flaw in the thinking of those on the right. While you can certainly point out to certain individuals who are liberal that do support and believe in equality of everything, that is not the belief of most liberals.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Those polls are bullshit, by the way.

No, they're not. The capture the common thread of liberal/marxist thought - the desire for equality of outcomes. We see that in sporting events, we see that in race relations, we see that in gender relations, and we see that in the economic sphere. What is all the moaning and groaning about income inequality all about? It's about unequal outcomes. Liberals aren't complaining about society preventing liberal community organizers from quitting that racket and starting a business and becoming rich. That opportunity is there. There is equality of opportunity but liberals are focused on inequality of outcomes. This is what is at the heart of the liberal world view - they see it as "unfair" that some succeed and others don't. That's why we have participation trophies.

Going even further, look at the debates on minimum wage - liberals are always yammering on about how pay should be set to a person's worth or a person's effort, where a physician and a janitor who both work hard should be rewarded for their efforts, not for the outcomes that they produce.

You are generally polite and pleasant. But....you don't know shit about what liberals think or want. Sorry.

 

[Rotagilla]

Racism is a natural human trait. All races have this trait...Rather, you go to africa and deal with Mugebe saying NO whites can own land or Japan.

All we whites are doing is giving up our future to another majority.

Racism is learned behavior.

you're wrong.

Don't be so quick on the draw. Always remember to understand the definition of racism. A baby is not born with the concepts of superior and inferior in his nature, these are concepts we have to learn.

Racism:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:​

Awareness of race, taking account of race, is not racism. Interactions in one's life which intersect with race MUST BE MOTIVATED by the belief that one's race is superior in order to be classed as racism.

Racism is a learned behavior. Don't fall into the framework set up by liberals where they define preference for one's own race to be racism.

Words must have meaning that we all understand, that's the point of having dictionaries. When we all use words that we all understand then we can communicate with each other.

Humans are tribal and ethnocentric and they all prefer to be around people that share their customs, culture and values.

If that's racism, I'm a "racist"...and so is 99% of the rest of the world.
This "superiority" nonsense is a trap...Don't let them lure you into it. When they add that into the definition, it excludes me as a "racist"..but ya know what? I quit caring long ago about being called names by frustrated beta males.
The stupid word has lost all meaning to me and the more they use it the less power it is having over people...and that frustrates them even more....which is a good thing. I just couldn't care less anymore about being called a racist.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Those polls are bullshit, by the way.

No, they're not. The capture the common thread of liberal/marxist thought - the desire for equality of outcomes. We see that in sporting events, we see that in race relations, we see that in gender relations, and we see that in the economic sphere. What is all the moaning and groaning about income inequality all about? It's about unequal outcomes. Liberals aren't complaining about society preventing liberal community organizers from quitting that racket and starting a business and becoming rich. That opportunity is there. There is equality of opportunity but liberals are focused on inequality of outcomes. This is what is at the heart of the liberal world view - they see it as "unfair" that some succeed and others don't. That's why we have participation trophies.

Going even further, look at the debates on minimum wage - liberals are always yammering on about how pay should be set to a person's worth or a person's effort, where a physician and a janitor who both work hard should be rewarded for their efforts, not for the outcomes that they produce.

You are generally polite and pleasant. But....you don't know shit about what liberals think or want. Sorry.

Look at what happened at UCLA after California passed Proposition 209 banning the use of race in college admissions. Only 100 blacks qualified for admission, 2% of the entering class. There is equality of opportunity. All hell broke loose.

How is fairness judged? By looking at representation levels.

I will take you at your word that you're not focused on equality of outcomes. Will you paint a fuller picture of what inequality you are happy to tolerate in society? Here's a blank canvas, fill it with your own positions. Look to my comment above for guidance (?) or examples. Where did I misunderstand your position? Are you content with wealth inequality? Are you content with low female representation in some career fields? Are you content with black underachievement?

 

[Rotagilla]

Douche.

Look, I'm not interested in your personal hygiene routines and I doubt anyone else really is either.. You can keep that to yourself, Ok?

Are you a person with a prejudiced belief that any one race is superior to any other race?

No.
Not a "prejudiced belief" (whatever THAT is) or even a "regular" belief...so no..I'm not a "racist".

Any more questions?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Douche.

Look, I'm not interested in your personal hygiene routines and I doubt anyone else really is either.. You can keep that to yourself, Ok?

Are you a person with a prejudiced belief that any one race is superior to any other race?

No.
Not a "prejudiced belief" (whatever THAT is) or even a "regular" belief...so no..I'm not a "racist".

Any more questions?

Nope. I don't believe you.....but it doesn't matter. That is what a racist is. It is learned. Period.

 

[Rotagilla]

Douche.

Look, I'm not interested in your personal hygiene routines and I doubt anyone else really is either.. You can keep that to yourself, Ok?

Are you a person with a prejudiced belief that any one race is superior to any other race?

No.
Not a "prejudiced belief" (whatever THAT is) or even a "regular" belief...so no..I'm not a "racist".

Any more questions?

Nope. I don't believe you

Well, I'm just crushed. I only hope I can recover and move on with my life with no permanent damage.

.....but it doesn't matter.

You are correct.

That is what a racist is. It is learned.

No it isn't.

Period.

Ampersand

 

[teddyearp]

@JimBowie1958 : excellent post. I feel the same way. Before my time I know that racism was a one way street; whites suppressing blacks (and others). Then during the 60's that street was supposed to go two way. IMHO, that racism should have stopped in November, 2008. Obviously it has only turned the street around to a one way street going the other way.

Hell, I am not racist, after all I own a color TV. (Bad joke)

 

[EverCurious]

Some interesting points in this thread that gave me pause for thought.

That said, I am still in denial that it can all boil down to something so simple as a genetically processed adaptation to physical surroundings.

So simple? I counter with so complex and and all-encompassing. The power of our genes in forming our social world and even our outlook is pretty significant. I'd never dismiss that influence as being something simple.

Maybe I'm not understanding you.

I believe you did. While ones race is genetically distinguishable, racial groups are not, in fact, biologically different in significant ways. The level of melanin in ones skin cells has about as much relevance upon cultural behavior as their blood type being type A, B, or O.

While I can agree that the genetic/chemical makeup of an individual is significant to that particular individual's behavior, I do not agree that the level of melanin has significant impact upon an individual's genetic/chemical make up. Ergo, the level of melanin in ones skin has no significant impact.

As a reasonable intellectual I can vote with a desire for equality, I believe it is right, and therefore I could argue that giving an advantage to minorities levels the playing field. (If only it had worked that way.)

Which equality are you speaking of, of opportunity or of outcome? Creating a society of equal opportunity doesn't solve any problems for those on the losing end are still just as bitter as if they were denied opportunity and perhaps even more bitter because if opportunity is denied they can find psychological refuge in the believe that they would be on top of the world but for denied opportunity but when that pretty little lie is blown to smithereens, how to explain failure? The bitterness at the unjustness of unequal outcomes is still present and perhaps elevated.

I was speaking specifically on the political advantage of forwarding a 'race card' agenda - because it appeals to a larger majority of people, rather than only the minority.

That said, if, by your argument, offering equal opportunity creates further bitterness because of a perceived failure of equal opportunity, then it would support my overall argument that such racial bitterness is a learned behavior and not based upon any genetic/chemical hallmark that determines ones race.

I would further argue that failure to succeed on any level is NOT reserved only for minorities, there are millions of white American's who have 'failed to succeed' the difference is that these white failures, in the past and in general, are not taught that it is because of the color of their skin, but rather they are taught that they need to try harder. This does not seem to be the case on the other side of the color spectrum, they are in fact, taught the opposite.

That said, the temperance of the condition of natural 'misbehavior' has always been one's social culture.

Social culture is not some independent variable draped over people. It is the product of groups of people and at the foundation of social culture is biology, so to the extent that biology differs so too will social culture.

I disagree that it is a biological difference - see my first point.

Race has only a minor part in the overreaching modern culture of America, it is only the ostensible use of the race card in American history that lends credence to an argument that race is the basis of minority 'failure.'

Race in not only a minor part of American culture, it is the dominant factor shaping American culture. It's effects reach far and wide even when there is no apparent racial contribution. For instance, the drive to higher education and the resultant credentialism in the employment market has its roots in Civil Rights litigation - employment exams resulted in too many blacks failing and so the Supreme Court made them illegal. Employers need a way to judge the intellect of applicants and college degrees became a proxy measure. Employers are NOT using the skills an employee learned in a Woman's Studies class or in a History of the Civil War class. People are wasting years of their lives and spending house downpayments in order to earn a credential when a simple 90 minute employment exam would actually better predict job performance. All of this is unnecessary but has arisen due to racial politics in American society.

If America had followed a different path with regards to slavery, repatriation of slaves and multiculturalism, it would be vastly different than what we see today.

You've taken my encompassing argument and used to it apply to a specific issue.

Ultimately, though it appears you agree with me, "...it is only the ostensible [aka plausible] use of the race card in American history that lends credence [belief] to an argument that race is the basis of minority 'failure' [in MODERN America]" ~ Ergo, my over all opinion that there is little coherent tribal argument in modern America for racism, except that which has been forwarded on political advantage and has been thusly taught to modern American's.

To address your specific points; yes, I also believe that if America had followed a different path, things would be different. However a discussion in depth of where we went wrong, is nothing more than a long-winded side track to my opinion on the OP's question ~ that I believe racism is a taught culture rather than "human nature" as the OP and others have argued.

Presently, when I review a resume I cannot know the color of the prospective employee, I can only go by what is writ in their resume. To proclaim that I am a racist because I chose an employee "based upon their color" is therefore a lie. Arguing that it was the color of the skin that influenced my hiring decision is utter bullshit and merely a facetious use of the 'race card' steeped in history ~ to even remotely make that connection I would have to have knowledge of the skin color which implies that I in fact accepted the potential hire's resume as a "qualified" candidate and then determined in interview that because they were black I chose someone else. This is a bias falsity forwarded by political agenda, not actual reality.

Actual reality says that a business will, in fact, hire the most qualified person for their particular opening, period. To forward that argument, if your black potential hire comes into an interview with an apparent chip on their shoulder toward whites, then they are not likely to get hired because they are less likely to integrate with their co-workers. That is to say, despite the fact that their resume showed them to be "qualified" for the position, their personality precluded their hire. It is not, however, exclusively a racism issue, a case in point:

I have personally been passed up for a position because they felt my confidence and intelligence would be perceived as arrogance by co-workers and cause conflict. Now, I 'could' claim that the underlying reason I was not hired was due to a bias against intelligence OR I can accept that I was not hired because the employer felt I was not a good fit for the position. My particular upbringing leans toward the latter. In the case of the black potential hire, their upbringing oft ignores other plausible issues, and proclaims it must be racism.

 

[JimBowie1958]

For the past 50 years since the fight for the Civil Rights Act in 65, we have tried to end racism in this country.
And what do we have to show for it? Annual riots by minorities demanding more, angry about imagined slights like the totally justified shooting of Michael Brown, and now Eric Holder, supposedly our nations top Law Enforcement official goes to these criminals in Fergusun and tells them he shares their distrust of law enforcement? This is beyond stupidity and absurdity as Holder throws out any pretense of being anything other than a black AG.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the simple question; Has our attempt to end racism been a failure?

All we have to show for it is that whites cannot defend themselves, even if being beaten to death, if the perp is a black man. Even if you have all the law and God on your side, the establishment will ruin your life and the legal fees impoverish you and your family. Whites cannot talk about their interests, celebrate their heroes or talk about white culture or show pride in being white. All the while being surrounded by black radio stations, black news papers, black entertainment, and every other ethnic group has its own version of it all as well.

Now if this were a universal standard for all ethnicities then something might be established that is at least fair and just to all parties, but no, all minorities are encouraged to take racial pride, show racial UNITY (WTF?) and even conservative blacks like Colin Powell knows he has to vote for the black man Obama or be branded a race traitor for ever more. Even a supposed conservative like Bill O'Reilly went on a rant about some kids in Georgia a few years ago who did nothing more than have a private graduation celebration and he branded it a 'whites only prom' and the hatred that was directed at these white students from all over the country was simply disgusting, assinine and cretinous. And yet no one ever dared to point out and criticize the many ethnic centered graduations and proms that go on every year by hispanics, asians and blacks. That is all OK, only whites are forbidden to have such, and in our own god damned country.

All our effort to end racism has done is turn white people into punching bags, eternal victims and fucking epic losers. Show me another civilization aside from Western civilization where an ethnic group has abandoned all rights to defend itself even within its own borders. That is what we have come to, an impotent, group of ethnic losers who nature will erase if something does not change.

Would we be justified to look at what is considered justified ethnic pride/practice among minority populations and take the same tacks for ourselves? It seems that way

Enough is enough, fuck it. The effort to end racism is nothing more than a fools game with whites meant to be the eternal losers.

I once was proud to think I was not a racist, now I feel like I have been played for a sucker. Where do the facts show that feeling wrong?

It will only change when both blacks and whites realize that both are to blame. Many blacks need to do more to improve their own situation, and whites need to understand that blacks are still discriminated against daily.

That's all well and good but what happens if equality of outcome can never be realized? There will always be discontent in any group who is losing a contest. This is why liberals are so keen on giving participation trophies to losing sports teams, to ease some of the sting from losing. Good intentions don't matter if the outcome is not fair, where fair is not defined as equal opportunity but as equal outcomes.

But in general society, economics or other competitive endeavors, how does one achieve equality of outcome without tyranny?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Those polls are bullshit, by the way.

Yeah, and you are an authority to say such without bothering to provide reason or links to evidence to support your claim?

Yeah, you're a libtard.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Douche.

Look, I'm not interested in your personal hygiene routines and I doubt anyone else really is either.. You can keep that to yourself, Ok?

Are you a person with a prejudiced belief that any one race is superior to any other race?

No.
Not a "prejudiced belief" (whatever THAT is) or even a "regular" belief...so no..I'm not a "racist".

Any more questions?

Nope. I don't believe you

Well, I'm just crushed. I only hope I can recover and move on with my life with no permanent damage.

.....but it doesn't matter.

You are correct.

That is what a racist is. It is learned.

No it isn't.

Period.

Ampersand

Funny how unwarranted assertions can be rebutted by use of counter unwarranted assertions, lolol.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Kwanzaa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umoja (Unity): To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.

• Kujichagulia (Self-Determination): To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves, and speak for ourselves.

• Ujima (Collective Work and Responsibility): To build and maintain our community together and make our brothers' and sisters' problems our problems, and to solve them together.

• Ujamaa (Cooperative Economics): To build and maintain our own stores, shops, and other businesses and to profit from them together.

• Nia (Purpose): To make our collective vocation the building and developing of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness.

• Kuumba (Creativity): To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it.

• Imani (Faith): To believe with all our hearts in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders, and the righteousness and victory of our struggle.

If whites developed a racial community approach like they have in Kwanzaa, a white kwanzaa, would that be racism?

Don't you get it yet?
ANYTHING white people do or say will ALWAYS be considered "racist" by negroes..Pay attention. The whole country turns on what negroes want or what they like or what offends them or what words we're allowed to use...

Yeah, I suspect that, but I would like to him them say it themselves.

Would a white Kwanzaa be racist? If you think it so, and I know you don't, then why someone assert that based on fact and reason? I see none at all.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Racism-Racialism won't end until politicians and special interest groups stop promoting it and the Federal Government stops subsidizing it. Take away the profit, and the promotions will subside.

"racism", as I've said, is a natural and normal affinity for ones own people. It's part of benig human and it will never end....and why should it? Why is it "wrong" to express preference for your own kind over others? Anti whites co opted the word and made it seem "bad" for white people to prefer your own race and culture..

Some people will have a harder time shaking off 50 years of indoctrination and being taught that negroes are just like us except with darker skin.
The ones who have to live near them and interact with them are mostly awake and aware already.

Agreed with all that, but do you agree that blacks have a right to be treated equally before the law?

Do you believe that blacks should not be targeted by their racial identity by legal code?

This format is confusing when replying sometimes..Are you talkingspecifically to me? I don't know but I'll answer.

1. Of course negroes should be treated fairly and equally before the law.

2. I don't know of any law that specifies blacks should be targeted.

I WILL say THIS;

As negroes commit over HALF of ALL violent crime in the u.s. despite only being 13% of the population, when they get scrutinized more closely no one should be surprised.

Hell, if midget eskimo men committed HALF of ALL violent crime in america I would expect they would be looked at a little closer, too. It's called common sense.

Yes, the questions were directed at you and you answered them well.

So you point out these statistical issue with the black community; so what are you proposing as a response to them?

Separation.
Nothing else has worked and they hate us as much or more than ever in history.

They should have their own area to live in and run as they see fit...since we're so evil and deadly, you'd think they'd jump at the chance. Complete autonomy free of all white people.

They can tax/spend/award benefits and entitlements to each other however they see fit. There would be no "racism" or "discrimination" or white people "keeping them down".

On the other hand imagine a nation without them;

Imagine how good the schools would be.
Imagine how clean and safe the cities would be.
Imagine how empty the prisons would be.
Imagine how much we could advance without the economic drag they impose on the system with section8 ebt, welfare, and all the other government programs aimed specifically at "advancing" them.

I sincerely and heartily wish we had just picked our own damn cotton instead of importing them to use as farm animals.
Slavery was the WORST mistake this nation ever made. 500 years from now historians will shake their heads and wonder why we imported and then FINANCED (with our own tax dollars) the very people who worked to take the nation down.

So you want segregation that is purely voluntary or decreed by the government?

 

[boedicca]

Racism-Racialism won't end until politicians and special interest groups stop promoting it and the Federal Government stops subsidizing it. Take away the profit, and the promotions will subside.

"racism", as I've said, is a natural and normal affinity for ones own people. It's part of benig human and it will never end....and why should it? Why is it "wrong" to express preference for your own kind over others? Anti whites co opted the word and made it seem "bad" for white people to prefer your own race and culture..

Some people will have a harder time shaking off 50 years of indoctrination and being taught that negroes are just like us except with darker skin.
The ones who have to live near them and interact with them are mostly awake and aware already.

Agreed with all that, but do you agree that blacks have a right to be treated equally before the law?

Do you believe that blacks should not be targeted by their racial identity by legal code?

Racism-Racialism won't end until politicians and special interest groups stop promoting it and the Federal Government stops subsidizing it. Take away the profit, and the promotions will subside.

"racism", as I've said, is a natural and normal affinity for ones own people. It's part of benig human and it will never end....and why should it? Why is it "wrong" to express preference for your own kind over others? Anti whites co opted the word and made it seem "bad" for white people to prefer your own race and culture..

Some people will have a harder time shaking off 50 years of indoctrination and being taught that negroes are just like us except with darker skin.
The ones who have to live near them and interact with them are mostly awake and aware already.

Agreed with all that, but do you agree that blacks have a right to be treated equally before the law?

Do you believe that blacks should not be targeted by their racial identity by legal code?

This format is confusing when replying sometimes..Are you talkingspecifically to me? I don't know but I'll answer.

1. Of course negroes should be treated fairly and equally before the law.

2. I don't know of any law that specifies blacks should be targeted.

I WILL say THIS;

As negroes commit over HALF of ALL violent crime in the u.s. despite only being 13% of the population, when they get scrutinized more closely no one should be surprised.

Hell, if midget eskimo men committed HALF of ALL violent crime in america I would expect they would be looked at a little closer, too. It's called common sense.

Yes, the questions were directed at you and you answered them well.

So you point out these statistical issue with the black community; so what are you proposing as a response to them?

Separation.
Nothing else has worked and they hate us as much or more than ever in history.

They should have their own area to live in and run as they see fit...since we're so evil and deadly, you'd think they'd jump at the chance. Complete autonomy free of all white people.

They can tax/spend/award benefits and entitlements to each other however they see fit. There would be no "racism" or "discrimination" or white people "keeping them down".

On the other hand imagine a nation without them;

Imagine how good the schools would be.
Imagine how clean and safe the cities would be.
Imagine how empty the prisons would be.
Imagine how much we could advance without the economic drag they impose on the system with section8 ebt, welfare, and all the other government programs aimed specifically at "advancing" them.

I sincerely and heartily wish we had just picked our own damn cotton instead of importing them to use as farm animals.
Slavery was the WORST mistake this nation ever made. 500 years from now historians will shake their heads and wonder why we imported and then FINANCED (with our own tax dollars) the very people who worked to take the nation down.

So you want segregation that is purely voluntary or decreed by the government?

Now I'm totally GROKKING why the Hegemony originally set up the new board without Nested Quotes.

Just sayin'.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Some interesting points in this thread that gave me pause for thought.

That said, I am still in denial that it can all boil down to something so simple as a genetically processed adaptation to physical surroundings.

So simple? I counter with so complex and and all-encompassing. The power of our genes in forming our social world and even our outlook is pretty significant. I'd never dismiss that influence as being something simple.

Maybe I'm not understanding you.

I believe you did. While ones race is genetically distinguishable, racial groups are not, in fact, biologically different in significant ways. The level of melanin in ones skin cells has about as much relevance upon cultural behavior as their blood type being type A, B, or O.

Surely you're not arguing that race is only expressed in skin color/ hair texture, facial shape, etc, that is merely in physical appearance?

While I can agree that the genetic/chemical makeup of an individual is significant to that particular individual's behavior, I do not agree that the level of melanin has significant impact upon an individual's genetic/chemical make up. Ergo, the level of melanin in ones skin has no significant impact.

Melanin in skin has is not what defines race, it's a quick proxy for everything that race entails. There is racial variation seen in the Big 5 personality metrics. We see it play out in intelligence. We see it play out in future time orientation.

I was speaking specifically on the political advantage of forwarding a 'race card' agenda - because it appeals to a larger majority of people, rather than only the minority.

That said, if, by your argument, offering equal opportunity creates further bitterness because of a perceived failure of equal opportunity, then it would support my overall argument that such racial bitterness is a learned behavior and not based upon any genetic/chemical hallmark that determines ones race.

I would further argue that failure to succeed on any level is NOT reserved only for minorities, there are millions of white American's who have 'failed to succeed' the difference is that these white failures, in the past and in general, are not taught that it is because of the color of their skin, but rather they are taught that they need to try harder. This does not seem to be the case on the other side of the color spectrum, they are in fact, taught the opposite.

I think that there is merit to some of your points but you're not seeing the whole picture.

Take an entirely white society. There will be winners and losers and if everyone believes that the society fosters equal opportunity, there will be high legitimacy to that society. The losers will gripe, they'll agitate for reforms to bring about equal outcomes but that griping will not amount to much.

Now take a black society. The same process will play out. No real harm done.

Now take a mixed society of perfect equal opportunity and when the majority of those who are losing out are black and the majority of those who are winning are white, the white losers in society are mostly of little consequence. The fact that blacks are losing out is very easy to spot because race is so visible. This becomes a very sore point for blacks. A white loser in a white society can't really blame others for his plight. A black loser in a mixed society sees lots of black losers and not so many white losers and now it becomes very easy to charge that there is a conspiracy to harm blacks. This really poisons the well for that society.

Trying harder doesn't change matters.

However a discussion in depth of where we went wrong, is nothing more than a long-winded side track to my opinion on the OP's question ~ that I believe racism is a taught culture rather than "human nature" as the OP and others have argued.

This looks like two different definitions in play for racism.

Arguing that it was the color of the skin that influenced my hiring decision is utter bullshit and merely a facetious use of the 'race card' steeped in history ~ to even remotely make that connection I would have to have knowledge of the skin color which implies that I in fact accepted the potential hire's resume as a "qualified" candidate and then determined in interview that because they were black I chose someone else. This is a bias falsity forwarded by political agenda, not actual reality.

I'm agreeing so far. My point is that blacks will see as racist the unequal outcomes which result from your race-neutral application of a fair doctrine.

Actual reality says that a business will, in fact, hire the most qualified person for their particular opening, period. To forward that argument, if your black potential hire comes into an interview with an apparent chip on their shoulder toward whites, then they are not likely to get hired because they are less likely to integrate with their co-workers. That is to say, despite the fact that their resume showed them to be "qualified" for the position, their personality precluded their hire. It is not, however, exclusively a racism issue, a case in point:

I agree. Again, the unequal outcomes are going to make blacks see this as some kind of racist conspiracy. You're focused on equal opportunity and a level playing field. They're focused on equal outcomes. You can't square this circle. To make for equal outcomes will require you to actively disregard fairness in the hiring process in order to reach some quota level. Now the blacks are happy because they have equal outcomes and everyone else is pissed off because their entire society has been corrupted and fairness and equal opportunity have been jettisoned.

So to get back to the overarching point - you claim that race is a minor factor in society but I see differently. The need to be sensitive to racial issues consumes vast quantities of people's brain power on a daily basis, it corrupts principles, it creates needs for self-censorship, it changes office cultures, workplace cultures, etc. America loses so much economic efficiency and cultural cohesiveness by having to make accommodations for these racial issues.