Has the republican perception of the income inequality crisis changed at all?

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports today:

The number of foreign-born individuals holding jobs in the United States hit a recorded high of 24,639,000 in August, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The BLS has been tracking the number of foreign-born workers annually since 2005 and monthly since 2007.

The BLS does not distinguish between foreign-born individuals who are in the United States legally and those who are here illegally.
​

And the Left wonders why income inequality is growing. Sheesh, are they economic illiterates? Yeah, OK I know they are, but still, is it really that hard to connect the dots - more workers competing for one job gives the employers more bargaining power to lower wages. Is that really so difficult for liberals to understand?

Let's be truthful though.

There are chicken plants where I live, even back when I was a kid I remember the local people who would not have a job at all declaring "I'd never work at that place for any amount of money"

well chicken has to get cooked, so these companies bring in immigrants.

The idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans is laughable. If Americans had been taking those jobs to begin with, there wouldn't have been any openings for the immigrants to "steal"

What you wrote is not actually "truthful." I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that this wasn't an example of being truthful, it was an example of being opinionated.

Frankly, I don't see much difference between a chicken plant and a beef slaughterhouse. Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.
​

The story I related wasn't opinion, it DID happen. It's anecdotal, yes. But factual. There have ALWAYS been white people around here who simply felt that they were too goo d to work at the chicken plant. Consequently the chicken plant went down and recruited people who wanted to work..

Today the chicken plant is still looking for people , they are always hiring and their starting wage is like $11 an hour and NOW whites are taking some of the jobs , but it's still primarily Latinos that work there.

So perversely, bringing the Latinos in sort of back fired on the chicken plant because they were paying VERY low wages (minimum wage no benefits , terrible working conditions back in the day) then they brought in all the Hispanics, expanded their production then got busted a few times for using illegal help and looked around and said "shit we're geared up for higher production, we need help" and had to start paying more to get that help.

 

[Rozman]

Maybe if the left made the push for tax reform and not immigration reform we could move forward.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports today:

The number of foreign-born individuals holding jobs in the United States hit a recorded high of 24,639,000 in August, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The BLS has been tracking the number of foreign-born workers annually since 2005 and monthly since 2007.

The BLS does not distinguish between foreign-born individuals who are in the United States legally and those who are here illegally.
​

And the Left wonders why income inequality is growing. Sheesh, are they economic illiterates? Yeah, OK I know they are, but still, is it really that hard to connect the dots - more workers competing for one job gives the employers more bargaining power to lower wages. Is that really so difficult for liberals to understand?

Let's be truthful though.

There are chicken plants where I live, even back when I was a kid I remember the local people who would not have a job at all declaring "I'd never work at that place for any amount of money"

well chicken has to get cooked, so these companies bring in immigrants.

The idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans is laughable. If Americans had been taking those jobs to begin with, there wouldn't have been any openings for the immigrants to "steal"

What you wrote is not actually "truthful." I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that this wasn't an example of being truthful, it was an example of being opinionated.

Frankly, I don't see much difference between a chicken plant and a beef slaughterhouse. Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.
​

The story I related wasn't opinion, it DID happen. It's anecdotal, yes. But factual. There have ALWAYS been white people around here who simply felt that they were too goo d to work at the chicken plant. Consequently the chicken plant went down and recruited people who wanted to work..

Today the chicken plant is still looking for people , they are always hiring and their starting wage is like $11 an hour and NOW whites are taking some of the jobs , but it's still primarily Latinos that work there.

So perversely, bringing the Latinos in sort of back fired on the chicken plant because they were paying VERY low wages (minimum wage no benefits , terrible working conditions back in the day) then they brought in all the Hispanics, expanded their production then got busted a few times for using illegal help and looked around and said "shit we're geared up for higher production, we need help" and had to start paying more to get that help.

OK, so we're both in agreement that people respond to wages offered. Pay too low and people aren't interested in working at the plant. Boost pay offers and you start getting more interest. Boost higher still and you get more interest.

I'll come over to your house and shovel out your septic tank by hand if you pay me $50,000 to do it. I have my price. I have a nice income, I don't do manual labor for a living, but I'll do that unpleasant job if you pay me enough. I raise this point too illustrate the principle. As illegal infiltrators flood into a labor market they put downward pressure on wages and employers love this. This drives Americans out of labor categories, though not completely - they are still the majority in almost all jobs in the US, but barely a majority in some jobs, and onto various welfare plans we offer. That's not a win for America - to have work-capable adults on welfare rather than in the workforce.

Once the illegal infiltrators have been deported the employers have to boost wages in order to appeal to American workers.

The question is why don't Lefties understand this basic economic function?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

The question is why don't Lefties understand this basic economic function?

I disagree with you that it a "leftie" problem. I think people in general are stupid. And I've seen plenty of evidence on this board that suggests that people in general like to babble about shit they have no inkling of an understanding about.

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

It's a multi-tiered approach that is needed, not just a hands-off approach which avoids the unpleasantries. I get why people don't like deportation - the imagery of arresting people bothers people, but it's necessary because the self-deportation route isn't effective enough. This simply drives infiltrators into the underground economy or the self-employment piecemeal economy and then they're still here.

 

[francoHFW]

I don't need to guess. If you count all taxes and fees. the mega rich and giant corporations pay less percentagewise than anyone, including the poor, brainwashed dingbat.

Who gives a shit about percentage wise you jealous bitch.My taxable income last year was $247K I paid $106K in federal taxes. Was my gross income MUCH higher than $247K? You bet it was. And I took EVERY deduction and loophole my accountant could find.

Point me to a poor person who paid even 10% of what I paid in federal income tax last year in ALL taxes and fees....

Or how about this, I paid $16K in property taxes last year in a school district where I don't even have kids attending and another $12K in the district my kids DO attend.

You're one of the non mega rich who're getting screwed. State and local taxes and FEES have gone way up under Reaganism....duh. That's why non-rich taxpayers are paying more than the 1-2 %. If you're not interested in per capita and percentages, you're idiot dupes of the new greedy idiot rich bs white GOP. Read something. How 'bout a commie rag like your local or USA Today? lol

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

It's a multi-tiered approach that is needed, not just a hands-off approach which avoids the unpleasantries. I get why people don't like deportation - the imagery of arresting people bothers people, but it's necessary because the self-deportation route isn't effective enough. This simply drives infiltrators into the underground economy or the self-employment piecemeal economy and then they're still here.

cut off welfare and legal jobs and most of them will self deport man.

May as well be hungry at home.

But again, this is where I'm saying the conservatives gotta stop coming off as dicks. Some of these people have been here years, and have put down roots and have children who like it or not are US citizens. You can not just "fuck 'em let's round em all up and toss em out"

People are just looking around and saying "what a bunch of assholes" and voting for the Democrats, who propose to do NOTHING to solve the situation. People prefer NOTHING be done than to see a full on asshole deportation of illegal aliens.

When will conservatives get this through their heads. It is better to compromise and get SOME of what you want, then be a douche and get NOTHING that you want.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I don't need to guess. If you count all taxes and fees. the mega rich and giant corporations pay less percentagewise than anyone, including the poor, brainwashed dingbat.

Who gives a shit about percentage wise you jealous bitch.My taxable income last year was $247K I paid $106K in federal taxes. Was my gross income MUCH higher than $247K? You bet it was. And I took EVERY deduction and loophole my accountant could find.

Point me to a poor person who paid even 10% of what I paid in federal income tax last year in ALL taxes and fees....

Or how about this, I paid $16K in property taxes last year in a school district where I don't even have kids attending and another $12K in the district my kids DO attend.

You're one of the non mega rich who're getting screwed. State and local taxes and FEES have gone way up under Reaganism....duh. That's why non-rich taxpayers are paying more than the 1-2 %. If you're not interested Yoper capita and percentages, you're idiot dupes of the new greedy idiot rich bs white GOP. Read something. How 'bout a commie rag like your local or USA Today? lol

Do I have to press 1 before you post in English?

Listen, I don't care if people more well off than me are not paying as high a percentage as I am. I'm not a jealous little bitch.

 

[francoHFW]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

Christ, the new BS GOP only cares during one of their recessions- Allowing the worthy working illegals a green card is only intelligent and just. And a good SS/ID, which PUBS REUSE. Theyll never pass mass deportation- only hater dupes are THAT stupid.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

It's a multi-tiered approach that is needed, not just a hands-off approach which avoids the unpleasantries. I get why people don't like deportation - the imagery of arresting people bothers people, but it's necessary because the self-deportation route isn't effective enough. This simply drives infiltrators into the underground economy or the self-employment piecemeal economy and then they're still here.

cut off welfare and legal jobs and most of them will self deport man.

May as well be hungry at home.

But again, this is where I'm saying the conservatives gotta stop coming off as dicks. Some of these people have been here years, and have put down roots and have children who like it or not are US citizens. You can not just "fuck 'em let's round em all up and toss em out"

People are just looking around and saying "what a bunch of assholes" and voting for the Democrats, who propose to do NOTHING to solve the situation. People prefer NOTHING be done than to see a full on asshole deportation of illegal aliens.

When will conservatives get this through their heads. It is better to compromise and get SOME of what you want, then be a douche and get NOTHING that you want.

We've already tried the approach of putting up employment barriers with the E-Verify system. Sure, we could do more and I'm not opposed to a tiered approach but I know it won't work. It's a chess game, man. You move and then your opponent moves. I know what the infiltrator countermove is already.

 

[bripat9643]

I realize that some Rightwingers are so childish that they can't even admit that the massive inequality gap even exists, but it is equally troubling when they don't think it is a problem that 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

Has this changed? I want to know. I know republicans have trouble with inconvenient facts but at some point they have to see the light. This economic issue is far worse than any government regulation ever conceived in this country.

News flash: economists warn that this problem alone will inevitably lead to more economic crises. Why? Because this is a consumption based economy. If more and more money is being concentrated at the top and the middle class is shrinking, the economy becomes destabilized because of the drop in consumer spending.

Of course republicans refuse to do anything about this problem. They are of course against any gov intervention on the economy despite the fact that is the ONLY way to fix the problem. They can't even agree to raise the federal minimum wage. Do you really think any wage under $10 is a liveable wage? It's waaayyy behind on inflation too. Not only would raising the min wage to 10 do very little to kill jobs or increase prices, but it would lift 16 million people out of poverty. The increase in demand from the higher wages would also create jobs. Government dependence would also lessen. Productivity in the lower classes has gone up 100% yet wages have only gone up 8%. Obviously that's a problem.

Republicans need to get out the way. Maybe they have the simple minded Fox News audience fooled, but the rest of us want these problems fixed.

What crisis?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I realize that some Rightwingers are so childish that they can't even admit that the massive inequality gap even exists, but it is equally troubling when they don't think it is a problem that 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

Has this changed? I want to know. I know republicans have trouble with inconvenient facts but at some point they have to see the light. This economic issue is far worse than any government regulation ever conceived in this country.

News flash: economists warn that this problem alone will inevitably lead to more economic crises. Why? Because this is a consumption based economy. If more and more money is being concentrated at the top and the middle class is shrinking, the economy becomes destabilized because of the drop in consumer spending.

Of course republicans refuse to do anything about this problem. They are of course against any gov intervention on the economy despite the fact that is the ONLY way to fix the problem. They can't even agree to raise the federal minimum wage. Do you really think any wage under $10 is a liveable wage? It's waaayyy behind on inflation too. Not only would raising the min wage to 10 do very little to kill jobs or increase prices, but it would lift 16 million people out of poverty. The increase in demand from the higher wages would also create jobs. Government dependence would also lessen. Productivity in the lower classes has gone up 100% yet wages have only gone up 8%. Obviously that's a problem.

Republicans need to get out the way. Maybe they have the simple minded Fox News audience fooled, but the rest of us want these problems fixed.

Has yours?

Why California is a Hell Hole and Why the Rest of the Country Will Become One Too - Hit Run Reason.com

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

We've already tried the approach of putting up employment barriers with the E-Verify system. Sure, we could do more and I'm not opposed to a tiered approach but I know it won't work. It's a chess game, man. You move and then your opponent moves. I know what the infiltrator countermove is already.

Real ID Act, look it up.

There is a reason Obama and company have delayed the implementation for 7 years now.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

Christ, the new BS GOP only cares during one of their recessions- Allowing the worthy working illegals a green card is only intelligent and just. And a good SS/ID, which PUBS REUSE. Theyll never pass mass deportation- only hater dupes are THAT stupid.

It doesn't matter whether the infiltrator is working or not. Most American citizens don't actually pay enough in taxes to cover the costs of providing services to them. We have to accept this. The rich pay more in taxes than they consume in services. The difference between taxes paid and services received is a subsidy that the rich give to the rest of us.

It's utterly asinine to keep the numerator (number of rich) constant and keep expanding the denominator (those who don't pay enough in taxes to cover the cost of services).

When you give that illegal infiltrator a work permit then you dilute the subsidy that rich Americans give to all Americans. You're making American's poorer in terms of services that they get from the government.

We don't need to be adding more people who need subsidies to those that already exist.

 

[francoHFW]

It is of course logical that the more people you have vying for jobs, the less those jobs have to pay to secure help.

Logical to you and to me but I've no yet come across one Leftie who concedes this point. Notice I didn't say anything about their level of understanding. I suspect that they understand it but they won't concede because they don't like the policy implications with respect to immigration which follow accepting the point.

This now keeps them in the realm of magic and I really have no clue what they hope to accomplish by pushing their policy favorites which are based on magical thinking. I can only follow Leftie "logic" so far before the hall of mirrors gets to be too much.

However it is ALSO logical that if the existing labor force is willing and able to perform said jobs then there is no need to "import" help.

Surely you agree with that assessment.

The existing labor force has to be willing and able to perform the jobs for the OFFERED WAGE. If employers are not offering enough then this doesn't justify importing labor. That's what seems to be operational now and it's nonsensical. The displaced American labor is not replaced in society, it's displaced. These Americans who want higher wages don't just disappear to be replaced by Hispanics who are happy to work for lower wages, no, these Americans go onto welfare or they take themselves out of the workforce and are supported by family and in either case they represent a net cost to society.

We as a society don't gain when a Hispanic infiltrator displaces an American citizen out of the workforce. Better to pay higher wages to the American and not pay any welfare than to pay lower wages to an infiltrator and welfare to the American. The wage savings don't pay for the welfare.

Of course we're in agreement there, but people do all manners of things that aren't justified in life. Just saying "they shouldn't have done that" is no solutions. THey have done it, so now what?

The answer isn't spend more money trying to deport 12M people. The answer is implement The Real ID Act, and start hammering the fuck out of businesses who hire illegals.

If the jobs disappear, the illegals will go home on their own.

It's a multi-tiered approach that is needed, not just a hands-off approach which avoids the unpleasantries. I get why people don't like deportation - the imagery of arresting people bothers people, but it's necessary because the self-deportation route isn't effective enough. This simply drives infiltrators into the underground economy or the self-employment piecemeal economy and then they're still here.

cut off welfare and legal jobs and most of them will self deport man.

May as well be hungry at home.

But again, this is where I'm saying the conservatives gotta stop coming off as dicks. Some of these people have been here years, and have put down roots and have children who like it or not are US citizens. You can not just "fuck 'em let's round em all up and toss em out"

People are just looking around and saying "what a bunch of assholes" and voting for the Democrats, who propose to do NOTHING to solve the situation. People prefer NOTHING be done than to see a full on asshole deportation of illegal aliens.

When will conservatives get this through their heads. It is better to compromise and get SOME of what you want, then be a douche and get NOTHING that you want.

The Dems have the Schumer/Lindsay Graham Immigration Bill, filibustered by Pubs of course...ahem.

 

[whitehall]

When are low information lefties going to come to grips with the fact that that sorry ass pseudo muslem left wing socialist Barry Hussein Sotoro Obama is still president?

 

[ricechickie]

Do you really think raising the minimum wage will reduce income disparity? We've been raising it for decades now and it hasn't done anything of the sort.

Really? The gap between the rich and the poor is at an all-time wide point.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Do you really think raising the minimum wage will reduce income disparity? We've been raising it for decades now and it hasn't done anything of the sort.

Really? The gap between the rich and the poor is at an all-time wide point.

The minimum wage doesn't fix that problem - that's an allocation of wealth problem which arises in the labor market place. Too much labor allows capital more bargaining power. Passing laws raising wages doesn't solve that problem anymore than passing laws prohibiting over-eating solves that problem.