Has World War III Already Started in the Mideast?

[irosie91]

I do not like the term "WORLD WAR" -------it is confusing
for school children-------something like British history.
Learning British history is very difficult------because so many
of the KINGS have the same name. When naming
anything of HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE-----which might
show up on a seventh grade history test-----a thought should
be given to the poor kids who have to remember that crap---
the day of the test.

speaking of which ------what kind of name is "WAR OF 1812"---
It is the ONLY DATE I could remember in reference to wars---
but-----I have no idea what that war was all about

James town was founded in 1607----I think---but
I am not sure------for some reason that one appears
on history tests

 

[Circe]

I see, so by your new definition of WW at least 10million have to die through collective foreign battlefield actions before it's a world war. Anything under 10m is just a minor skirmish. Genocides, incidental deaths, and civil wars don't count. Got it.

I don't think you do have it, quite.

A minor skirmish is a minor skirmish: no one would want to call military action that kills 10 million people a "minor skirmish," surely!

Genocides, incidental deaths, and civil wars do count. They count as genocides, incidental deaths, and civil wars.

If things already have perfectly good labels that everyone is using, I wonder why you want to change those labels to names given completely different things. Not much point to all that, I wouldn't think.

 

[Circe]

speaking of which ------what kind of name is "WAR OF 1812"---
It is the ONLY DATE I could remember in reference to wars---
but-----I have no idea what that war was all about

We call it the War of 1812, because that's when it started, but I suppose the British simply view it as part of the Napoleonic Wars. It was more important where I live than other places, perhaps; the British burned a town I go to quite often, and all our Maryland license plates carry that name in memorial; our national anthem is from nearby during that war. They did burn the White House, which seemed important at the time, no doubt.

It was about taking our merchant sailors to fight their naval war against Napoleon (because our sailors could speak English, and were trained seamen) and about perhaps reconquering the American colonies, as if, and about stopping us from trading with the French and thus supplying them during the Napoleonic Wars.

We sort of won.

As the song says,

In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip --
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we fought the bloody British in the town of New Orleans!

We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin,
But there wasn't nigh as many as there was awhile ago.
We fired once more and they commenced to running,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico!

 

[Bloodrock44]

speaking of which ------what kind of name is "WAR OF 1812"---
It is the ONLY DATE I could remember in reference to wars---
but-----I have no idea what that war was all about

We call it the War of 1812, because that's when it started, but I suppose the British simply view it as part of the Napoleonic Wars. It was more important where I live than other places, perhaps; the British burned a town I go to quite often, and all our Maryland license plates carry that name in memorial; our national anthem is from nearby during that war. They did burn the White House, which seemed important at the time, no doubt.

It was about taking our merchant sailors to fight their naval war against Napoleon (because our sailors could speak English, and were trained seamen) and about perhaps reconquering the American colonies, as if, and about stopping us from trading with the French and thus supplying them during the Napoleonic Wars.

We sort of won.

As the song says,

In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip --
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we fought the bloody British in the town of New Orleans!

We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin,
But there wasn't nigh as many as there was awhile ago.
We fired once more and they commenced to running,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico!

Maryland, huh? Howdy homeboy.

 

[irosie91]

thanks circe------you have told me stuff about that war ----which
I did not know------all I recall----is the burning of the white house ----
some brave chick -----pulling down the painting of George Washington---
I think-----maybe....... ????? Those limey bastards were kidnapping
our boys? --------uhm----is that how BILLY BUDD----got to be a sailor----
I never read the book.

there was a picture of some chick -----cutting george out of the
frame------in my junior high school history book ------almost all of
my memory of school time history -----is THE PICTURES--------

 

[Circe]

thanks circe------you have told me stuff about that war ----which
I did not know------all I recall----is the burning of the white house ----
some brave chick -----pulling down the painting of George Washington---
I think-----maybe....... ????? Those limey bastards were kidnapping
our boys? --------uhm----is that how BILLY BUDD----got to be a sailor----
I never read the book.

there was a picture of some chick -----cutting george out of the
frame------in my junior high school history book ------almost all of
my memory of school time history -----is THE PICTURES--------

Yeah, they managed to save the pictures, on the run.....

Just as well or the dollar bill would look different.

I suppose the function of history in high school is just to teach kids that something happened earlier than they happened.

I have come to feel belatedly that where it's at is the dates.

 

[Osomir]

There are a whole lot of countries dramatically falling apart in Sandland. There is no law that says world wars have to start in Europe: indeed, Japan's invasion of Manchuria had a lot to do with starting World War II.

The usual pattern is that the USA does NOT get involved right away: we wait a good year or two or three years and then are dragged into it all, kicking and screaming, which is exactly why we adopted the role of world policeman after WWII ended.

However, we can't stop all this going on: nobody could. Clearly the disorder is spreading, now to Turkey and Jordan and Lebanon. It's an out-of-control wildfire like the fires in California and Idaho. While the wars are all civil wars inside nationstates it's not so much of a problem, but when they spread to other states -- attacks on Israel, Turkey destabilized by refugees, Syrians blowing up Lebanon, the contagion spreading to oil-rich countries we depend on for fuel ---- that could become a big and sudden problem.

It's very hard to correctly identify the beginnings of huge conflicts: NO one knew WWI was starting till the last week in July 1914, a week before the Germans goosestepped over the Belgian border. Nobody took the "phoney war" seriously 1939-1940: until the quick conquest of France, and the Blitz started. Before that, war had been declared but nothing happened for months, so people thought, we can fix it, they'll have talks.

What's going on in the Mideast is HUGE. Anybody seen a lot of stuff happen in the world that's this bad? Because I haven't, and I've been watching for awhile. Is this WWIII?

I've seen plenty happen in the world that is worse. The conflict in the DR Congo (which was also the largest international war since WWII) was one of them.

Other time periods of instability like this was around the collapse of teh Soviet Union too.

I don't really see WWIII in this at all.

 

[Osomir]

PS I PROPHESIZE (is that a word?) that the flashpoint this time
will be an invasion of saudi arabia-----by Al quieda jerks, hezbollah
jerks and MB jerks (I am never COMPLETELY wrong------I can
apply excrutiating sophistry to justify any idiotic statement)

That would work....that would bring us in. And/or Europe.

I myself prophecy (I'm not sure of the spelling either!) that an attack on Israel will start things up bigtime. Could be Iran, but right now people are thinking of an attack coming from Egypt.

Then there is always Hezbollah attacking from the norht .....there have already been attacks inside Lebanon from the Syrian war, so it's spreading now.

There are already weekly attacks on Israel from Egypt. If you are talking about a major invasion attempt though I don't see why the Egyptian military would ever do that.

 

[Osomir]

I prophesize again------Saudi arabia will be attacked first

When do you see this happening? I'm not saying that I disagree, I'm just curious as to your train of thought on it.

 

[Osomir]

remember the good old days of the FERTILE CRESCENT---and THE NILE VALLEY---
when no one really starved ??? -------there was the INDUS VALLEY ---too........
-----grain for all-------all the time ------seems to me that the big fight will be over
bread and ----who gets to eat the blubber of the last whale

The pre-colonial average life expectancy in the Indus valley was less than 30 years old. They easily have it better today.

 

[irosie91]

remember the good old days of the FERTILE CRESCENT---and THE NILE VALLEY---
when no one really starved ??? -------there was the INDUS VALLEY ---too........
-----grain for all-------all the time ------seems to me that the big fight will be over
bread and ----who gets to eat the blubber of the last whale

The pre-colonial average life expectancy in the Indus valley was less than 30 years old. They easily have it better today.

Mr Osomir----your responses indicate a really poor educational background.
How is "life expectancy" calculated? The issue of "nile valley, "fertile
crescent" and "indus valley" so highly productive that civilizations
developed around those areas------relates to ANCIENT HISTORY_-----way
before the brits took India Life expectancy in the pre anti biotic era----
and before MRI SCANS-----was not lengthy as it is now----
Refridgerators also help ------and blood transfusions for those who bleed
heavily

Had I lived in the time before the brits entered India------I would have died
at around age 30 too-------and my son would have died in the womb ----making
our average life expectancy ----15

 

[irosie91]

I prophesize again------Saudi arabia will be attacked first

When do you see this happening? I'm not saying that I disagree, I'm just curious as to your train of thought on it.

any minute------however---events in Syria-----I surmize,,, are delaying plans
----LOSS OF YOUR PAL MORSI------friend of the "non-terrorist" Muslim brotherhood
--------is also delaying things -----Iran's failure to bring ITS plans to fruition ----is
also delaying things ------not doubt that when that NON TERRORIST beloved
by muslim brotherhood-----MORSI man------SHAYKH MUHUMMAD ABDEL RAHMAN---
gets released by MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD DEMAND (because the
good shaykh is not a terrorist)-----things will work out for you

 

[Osomir]

Mr Osomir----your responses indicate a really poor educational background.
How is "life expectancy" calculated? The issue of "nile valley, "fertile
crescent" and "indus valley" so highly productive that civilizations
developed around those areas------relates to ANCIENT HISTORY_-----way
before the brits took India Life expectancy in the pre anti biotic era----
and before MRI SCANS-----was not lengthy as it is now----
Refridgerators also help ------and blood transfusions for those who bleed
heavily

Had I lived in the time before the brits entered India------I would have died
at around age 30 too-------and my son would have died in the womb ----making
our average life expectancy ----15

How does it show a poor educational background to say that they have it better off today?

I used pre-colonial data, because that is as far back as we have data for.

 

[irosie91]

Mr Osomir----your responses indicate a really poor educational background.
How is "life expectancy" calculated? The issue of "nile valley, "fertile
crescent" and "indus valley" so highly productive that civilizations
developed around those areas------relates to ANCIENT HISTORY_-----way
before the brits took India Life expectancy in the pre anti biotic era----
and before MRI SCANS-----was not lengthy as it is now----
Refridgerators also help ------and blood transfusions for those who bleed
heavily

Had I lived in the time before the brits entered India------I would have died
at around age 30 too-------and my son would have died in the womb ----making
our average life expectancy ----15

How does it show a poor educational background to say that they have it better off today?

I used per-colonial data, because that is as far back as we have data for.

I refer to your misuse of "average life-expectancy" as indicator of "better off"
My issue was----Indus valley, nile valley, Fertile crescent----
FOOD PRODUCTION ---------sufficient food production is not the only factor
in LIFE EXPECTANCY. In fact I doubt that there was as much starvation
in India -----2000 years ago as there has been in the past 100 years -----

how are you defining "better off" ?? my impression is that your definition of
"better off" is average life expectancy. gee---I remember when
"better off" meant one had a telephone. I have tried to convince my
husband that he is WELL OFF-----because I provide him with a pair
of clean socks ----EVERY DAY!!!!!
Remember the Romans of ancient times-? they were better off
when they got bread and a chance to watch people get eaten by
Lions

getting back to Indians-----yes----now they have BOLLYWOOD so they are
better off

 

[Osomir]

I prophesize again------Saudi arabia will be attacked first

When do you see this happening? I'm not saying that I disagree, I'm just curious as to your train of thought on it.

any minute------however---events in Syria-----I surmize,,, are delaying plans
----LOSS OF YOUR PAL MORSI------friend of the "non-terrorist" Muslim brotherhood
--------is also delaying things -----Iran's failure to bring ITS plans to fruition ----is
also delaying things ------not doubt that when that NON TERRORIST beloved
by muslim brotherhood-----MORSI man------SHAYKH MUHUMMAD ABDEL RAHMAN---
gets released by MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD DEMAND (because the
good shaykh is not a terrorist)-----things will work out for you

You didn't really answer my question. i'm also not sure why you're being so hostile, I was honestly just curious.

 

[Osomir]

I refer to your misuse of "average life-expectancy" as indicator of "better off"
My issue was----Indus valley, nile valley, Fertile crescent----
FOOD PRODUCTION ---------sufficient food production is not the only factor
in LIFE EXPECTANCY. In fact I doubt that there was as much starvation
in India -----2000 years ago as there has been in the past 100 years -----

how are you defining "better off" ?? my impression is that your definition of
"better off" is average life expectancy. gee---I remember when
"better off" meant one had a telephone. I have tried to convince my
husband that he is WELL OFF-----because I provide him with a pair
of clean socks ----EVERY DAY!!!!!
Remember the Romans of ancient times-? they were better off
when they got bread and a chance to watch people get eaten by
Lions

getting back to Indians-----yes----now they have BOLLYWOOD so they are
better off

We can calculate it in quite a few ways I suppose, though accurate comparisons would be difficult due to information gaps. Simply put though we do life longer and yes that should contribute to being "better off". If anything I think we have more food security now in the world than we likely ever have. I think we have a tendency to romanticize an often fairly brutal past in terms of world history (particularly if you were poor).

Human Development Index readings have been fairly promising in how we have progressed. We (humans) have gotten healthier, wealthier, and have generally developed more equitable societies.

 

[irosie91]

I refer to your misuse of "average life-expectancy" as indicator of "better off"
My issue was----Indus valley, nile valley, Fertile crescent----
FOOD PRODUCTION ---------sufficient food production is not the only factor
in LIFE EXPECTANCY. In fact I doubt that there was as much starvation
in India -----2000 years ago as there has been in the past 100 years -----

how are you defining "better off" ?? my impression is that your definition of
"better off" is average life expectancy. gee---I remember when
"better off" meant one had a telephone. I have tried to convince my
husband that he is WELL OFF-----because I provide him with a pair
of clean socks ----EVERY DAY!!!!!
Remember the Romans of ancient times-? they were better off
when they got bread and a chance to watch people get eaten by
Lions

getting back to Indians-----yes----now they have BOLLYWOOD so they are
better off

We can calculate it in quite a few ways I suppose, though accurate comparisons would be difficult due to information gaps. Simply put though we do life longer and yes that should contribute to being "better off". If anything I think we have more food security now in the world than we likely ever have. I think we have a tendency to romanticize an often fairly brutal past in terms of world history (particularly if you were poor).

Human Development Index readings have been fairly promising in how we have progressed. We (humans) have gotten healthier, wealthier, and have generally developed more equitable societies.

OK but------your "brutal past"------was not necessarily "brutal" because
of starvation or even war. ------what was brutal about it was mostly lack of that
which we have because of technology-----------like hot baths, lights,
and penicillan should we contract syphilis---------central heating and rain resistent
roofs -----also help ---------and IBUPROFEN and---PLASTIC !!!!!!!

getting back to the fertile crescent-------remember when a million children starved
to death because of some embargo placed on Saddam?---

 

[Politico]

No......

 

[Osomir]

OK but------your "brutal past"------was not necessarily "brutal" because
of starvation or even war. ------what was brutal about it was mostly lack of that
which we have because of technology-----------like hot baths, lights,
and penicillan should we contract syphilis---------central heating and rain resistent
roofs -----also help ---------and IBUPROFEN and---PLASTIC !!!!!!!

getting back to the fertile crescent-------remember when a million children starved
to death because of some embargo placed on Saddam?---

I would probably argue that we have less warfare now than we did back then. We have more formal global structures now. We also have international food relief programs and aid infrastructure which means we have much fewer people (as a percentage of the population) starving to death now (unquestionably).

We have high astonishing numbers now, but our world is also MUCH more populated than it currently is. So while we have large disasters like hundreds of thousands or millions dead due to war (also in part, due to our technology) as a percentage of our total population it is much less severe than what many ancient societies had to deal with at one time or another.

 

[irosie91]

When do you see this happening? I'm not saying that I disagree, I'm just curious as to your train of thought on it.

any minute------however---events in Syria-----I surmize,,, are delaying plans
----LOSS OF YOUR PAL MORSI------friend of the "non-terrorist" Muslim brotherhood
--------is also delaying things -----Iran's failure to bring ITS plans to fruition ----is
also delaying things ------not doubt that when that NON TERRORIST beloved
by muslim brotherhood-----MORSI man------SHAYKH MUHUMMAD ABDEL RAHMAN---
gets released by MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD DEMAND (because the
good shaykh is not a terrorist)-----things will work out for you

You didn't really answer my question. i'm also not sure why you're being so hostile, I was honestly just curious.

In a very minor way----I had a hand in caring for the victims of the 1993 bombing
of the World Trade Center--------at that time I was convinced---that the plan was
to make the towers TOPPLE onto Manhattan-----murdering tens of thousands ----
I am hostile to anyone who suggests that the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD----does
not support terrorism against civilians. Indeed it does. That organization
was developed out of the department of koranic studies ---AL AZHAR U.
AL AZHAR U-----issued fartwahs-----as far back as 45 years ago---making it
legal for a good muslim to kill any Israeli ---regardless of age or gender----using
elegant islamic logic ------"they are all potential, or past or future l soldiers because
of the universal draft in Israel"-------
More recently---the noble founding organization of the
Muslim brotherhood-----AL AZHAR----issued fartwahs rendering the murder of any
jew in the world ---legal and-----just now-----today---there is news of new
fartwahs encouraging the killing of ANTI MORSI demonstrators -----

of course the release of the noble SHAYKH MUHUMMAD ABDEL RAHMAN---
remains ------AN ARDENT CAUSE FOR AL AZHAR AND THE MUSLIM
BROTHERHOOD--------somehow -----I do not believe anyone who denies
the fond connections or defines an Israeli infant as a non civilian----
because he may some day be a soldier or a 12 year old holding an
anti morsi sign----as a "non civilian"


how do you define "civilian"?