Here's why religious restoration acts are repressive

[Nosmo King]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

What has that got to do with renting?

The question is: if Social Conservatives can get away with discriminating against homosexuals by hiding behind peculiar dogma when it comes to providing services for a wedding, why could those same Social Conservatives get away with discriminating against Gay citizen when it comes to renting an apartment or reviewing a job application, or a loan application? Why should we believe that the Social Conservatives won't seek to hide behind dogma all the time, thus perpetuating discrimination?

You say activities other that wedding ceremonies are not religious activities. Well, perhaps that Gay wedding was not a religious activity either.

Should we be complicit in allowing the development of an American Christian Taliban? Folks who use obscurer and convoluted interpretations of scripture to further their narrow outlook on life?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Oh, God. The ubiquitous "run to the blacks".

 

[peach174]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

 

[Cecilie1200]

]Baking a cake, renting an apartment approving employment applications and granting loans are NOT moral decisions. Participation in a ceremony, if only so far as to provide a cake IS, in the case of gay "weddings".
It is irrelevant what YOU feel. The baker should not be compelled to violate his religious tenets.

I've been to a lot of wedding ceremonies. Not one had a cake at it. The cake was always at the Reception, which is not the same as the ceremony.

The Reception is the celebration of the union of which they are against.

Ah, so now it's not the ceremony opposed to, but the existence of a gay couple.

Being against gay marriage does not mean that they should not be able to do so in order to have the same rights.
Their lifestyle should not be forced on those who oppose it.
There are plenty of Churches, Bakers,Florists and Photographers who will do it for them.
Those who oppose should not be forced to do so.
America is about freedom for all, not being forced to go against your religious principals.

]Baking a cake, renting an apartment approving employment applications and granting loans are NOT moral decisions. Participation in a ceremony, if only so far as to provide a cake IS, in the case of gay "weddings".
It is irrelevant what YOU feel. The baker should not be compelled to violate his religious tenets.

I've been to a lot of wedding ceremonies. Not one had a cake at it. The cake was always at the Reception, which is not the same as the ceremony.

And????? Gay weddings offend the moral values of some people. Find a baker that is willing to serve you.

]Baking a cake, renting an apartment approving employment applications and granting loans are NOT moral decisions. Participation in a ceremony, if only so far as to provide a cake IS, in the case of gay "weddings".
It is irrelevant what YOU feel. The baker should not be compelled to violate his religious tenets.

I've been to a lot of wedding ceremonies. Not one had a cake at it. The cake was always at the Reception, which is not the same as the ceremony.

Ooh, hairsplitting. THAT'LL convince people.

It's actually an important point, since a claim has been the objection is not towards homosexuals, but towards the wedding and being seen to support it. The cake isn't part of the wedding, so the argument fails. Baking a cake for a reception is not being in anyway involved with the wedding.

The reception is part of the wedding, you halfwit. Christ on a fucking catapult, you people are retarded.

No, it's not. Seperate event in a seperate venue, usually. The Wedding is the specific ceremony. The Reception is the party afterwards. It's really not that hard to figure out.

Catering staff don't attend the wedding, while they do serve at the reception.

My wife and I didn't have a reception, but we did have a wedding.

See above re: "bullshit, irrelevant hairsplitting". This does not make you seem clever and extra-perceptive. It makes you seem chickenshit and like you're trying to duck the point.

You're wasting my time. Say something useful and meaningful, because I'm done dignifying this dreck.

 

[Nosmo King]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

 

[Zander]

Lew Rockwell :

Activists are searching out small businesses to destroy, if the owner doesn’t want to make a cake celebrating gay weddings. These predators want owners financially destroyed, and preferably jailed, for such a hate crime. Of course, the actual hate crime is calling down state violence on the peaceful.


In a free society, unlike the current USA, customers are free to choose the commercial enterprises they wish to patronize, and owners may make their own decisions. Virtually no business owner will turn down a paying customer–Jim Crow laws, for example, had to be enforced by state violence. But if you own property, you should be able to make the rules.


Some years ago, a woman colleague from the Ron Paul congressional campaign and I went to lunch in a gay area of Houston. We weren’t in the all-male restaurant for long before some of the patrons began muttering nasty and obscene things. As we prepared to leave, the manager asked us to go.


Both of us–being libertarians–upheld the restaurant’s right to discriminate. That is tolerance. Indeed, what decent person would seek to force himself, at the point of a government gun, on those who do not want him? Freedom of association and disassociation is a bedrock of liberty and social peace.

Perfectly stated!!

 

[peach174]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

What has that got to do with renting?

The question is: if Social Conservatives can get away with discriminating against homosexuals by hiding behind peculiar dogma when it comes to providing services for a wedding, why could those same Social Conservatives get away with discriminating against Gay citizen when it comes to renting an apartment or reviewing a job application, or a loan application? Why should we believe that the Social Conservatives won't seek to hide behind dogma all the time, thus perpetuating discrimination?

You say activities other that wedding ceremonies are not religious activities. Well, perhaps that Gay wedding was not a religious activity either.

Should we be complicit in allowing the development of an American Christian Taliban? Folks who use obscurer and convoluted interpretations of scripture to further their narrow outlook on life?

Why would any Gay couple want to have anyone do anything for their wedding if they were forced to do so?
It gives gays more freedom to choose a service that has no problem with gay marriages.
As a gay person I would be afraid to go the a business that was forced against their will to do any of those services.
I would not know what they might try do to ruin the cake or the pictures or the flowers.
If all of the businesses was forced, how would any gay couple know if that particular businesses was against gay marriage?

 

[peach174]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

You are still married under Gods eyes.

 

[dblack]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

No. They get to decide if they provide me with shelter.

huh?

They don't get to decide whether or not I have shelter. They only decide whether or not they help me achieve that goal.

If that is the only apartment near where you work in your price range...they are deciding it....

And there's no air, right? We're on the moon and there's no air and the only air salesman is flaming bigot. Hmmn... I'll have to wrestle that one.

 

[Nosmo King]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

What has that got to do with renting?

The question is: if Social Conservatives can get away with discriminating against homosexuals by hiding behind peculiar dogma when it comes to providing services for a wedding, why could those same Social Conservatives get away with discriminating against Gay citizen when it comes to renting an apartment or reviewing a job application, or a loan application? Why should we believe that the Social Conservatives won't seek to hide behind dogma all the time, thus perpetuating discrimination?

You say activities other that wedding ceremonies are not religious activities. Well, perhaps that Gay wedding was not a religious activity either.

Should we be complicit in allowing the development of an American Christian Taliban? Folks who use obscurer and convoluted interpretations of scripture to further their narrow outlook on life?

Why would any Gay couple want to have anyone do anything for their wedding if they were forced to do so?
It gives gays more freedom to choose a service that has no problem with gay marriages.
As a gay person I would be afraid to go the a business that was forced against their will to do any of those services.
I would not know what they might try do to ruin the cake or the pictures or the flowers.
If all of the businesses was forced, how would any gay couple know if that particular businesses was against gay marriage?

What if there was only one vendor in town? What if the Gay couple wanted the quality of service they have seen that vendor deliver to other affairs?

And why is it still okay to discriminate against Gay American citizens?

 

[peach174]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

DNA says you are wrong.
Our DNA says that we all came from one man and from one woman.

 

[peach174]

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

What has that got to do with renting?

The question is: if Social Conservatives can get away with discriminating against homosexuals by hiding behind peculiar dogma when it comes to providing services for a wedding, why could those same Social Conservatives get away with discriminating against Gay citizen when it comes to renting an apartment or reviewing a job application, or a loan application? Why should we believe that the Social Conservatives won't seek to hide behind dogma all the time, thus perpetuating discrimination?

You say activities other that wedding ceremonies are not religious activities. Well, perhaps that Gay wedding was not a religious activity either.

Should we be complicit in allowing the development of an American Christian Taliban? Folks who use obscurer and convoluted interpretations of scripture to further their narrow outlook on life?

Why would any Gay couple want to have anyone do anything for their wedding if they were forced to do so?
It gives gays more freedom to choose a service that has no problem with gay marriages.
As a gay person I would be afraid to go the a business that was forced against their will to do any of those services.
I would not know what they might try do to ruin the cake or the pictures or the flowers.
If all of the businesses was forced, how would any gay couple know if that particular businesses was against gay marriage?

What if there was only one vendor in town? What if the Gay couple wanted the quality of service they have seen that vendor deliver to other affairs?

And why is it still okay to discriminate against Gay American citizens?

That is not very likely.

Why is it okay to discriminate against Christians?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

The question isn't the couples' religious context, halfwit. The question is the BAKER'S religious context, which does not get dictated by the couple or you.

Please try to wrap both of your functioning brain cells around this: My personal beliefs are decided by me and God. You are neither of those people. You do not get a vote. I do not have to justify it to you, or even explain it to you. I do not need your approval.

Any post you make that assumes otherwise is based on a false premise and is therefore invalid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

Not everyone must believe that homosexual weddings are okay, either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

What has that got to do with renting?

The question is: if Social Conservatives can get away with discriminating against homosexuals by hiding behind peculiar dogma when it comes to providing services for a wedding, why could those same Social Conservatives get away with discriminating against Gay citizen when it comes to renting an apartment or reviewing a job application, or a loan application? Why should we believe that the Social Conservatives won't seek to hide behind dogma all the time, thus perpetuating discrimination?

You say activities other that wedding ceremonies are not religious activities. Well, perhaps that Gay wedding was not a religious activity either.

Should we be complicit in allowing the development of an American Christian Taliban? Folks who use obscurer and convoluted interpretations of scripture to further their narrow outlook on life?

Why would any Gay couple want to have anyone do anything for their wedding if they were forced to do so?
It gives gays more freedom to choose a service that has no problem with gay marriages.
As a gay person I would be afraid to go the a business that was forced against their will to do any of those services.
I would not know what they might try do to ruin the cake or the pictures or the flowers.
If all of the businesses was forced, how would any gay couple know if that particular businesses was against gay marriage?

What if there was only one vendor in town? What if the Gay couple wanted the quality of service they have seen that vendor deliver to other affairs?

And why is it still okay to discriminate against Gay American citizens?

"What if something happened that's never going to happen, and we therefore have to base the laws of the ENTIRE COUNTRY on this impossible hypothetical that I came up with!"

Piss off.

 

[pinqy]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

You are still married under Gods eyes.

Unless of course there was a previous marriage that ended in divorce. In which case it's an adulterous, sinful marriage.

 

[Nosmo King]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

The question isn't the couples' religious context, halfwit. The question is the BAKER'S religious context, which does not get dictated by the couple or you.

Please try to wrap both of your functioning brain cells around this: My personal beliefs are decided by me and God. You are neither of those people. You do not get a vote. I do not have to justify it to you, or even explain it to you. I do not need your approval.

Any post you make that assumes otherwise is based on a false premise and is therefore invalid.

You are perfectly within your rights to exclude anyone you find unworthy from your church. You can commit any discriminatory practices you want to keep the 'undesirables' from your congregation.

But if you operate a licensed business offering services to the public, your 'right' to discriminate against a group you deem unworthy of your services ends when you open your shop for business. Otherwise, other ersatz Christians can start discriminating against other groups as they hide behind their peculiar dogma.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

You are still married under Gods eyes.

Unless of course there was a previous marriage that ended in divorce. In which case it's an adulterous, sinful marriage.

If that's what you believe, knock yourself out. But you do understand that it makes no frigging difference to anyone but you if you've personally decided that that's what other people have to believe. You're not God, you're not even my pastor. I'm not obligated to answer to you, and I'm not interested in doing so.

 

[peach174]

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

Even a civil ceremony is a couple getting married under Gods Command.
God himself married Adam and Eve
Genesis 2: 23-24
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There was no Churches back then.

Even folks who have never heard of the Bible get married. Some ceremonies never mention God at all. Some ceremonies are held in for profit wedding 'chapels' that have no religious affiliation.

Not everyone must believe in Adam and Eve, I sure don't!

You are still married under Gods eyes.

Unless of course there was a previous marriage that ended in divorce. In which case it's an adulterous, sinful marriage.

Not necessarily
Jesus Explains Why Divorce is Allowed
Matthew 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

Matthew 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

 

[peach174]

So if a "christian" real estate office/apartment propertty chose not to show a house/apartment to a gay couple...that would be okay....

What if the couple were black....interracial...or just two friends who happened to be of the same sex who wished to live together while they were going to school or happened to be working on a project and were going to share expenses during the temporary situation?

Does the Realtor (who doesn't own the house) or the leasing agent (who doesn't own the apartment) get to decide if you have shelter?

Renting is not a religious ceremony.

Perhaps their wedding ceremony was a civil ceremony without religious context..

The question isn't the couples' religious context, halfwit. The question is the BAKER'S religious context, which does not get dictated by the couple or you.

Please try to wrap both of your functioning brain cells around this: My personal beliefs are decided by me and God. You are neither of those people. You do not get a vote. I do not have to justify it to you, or even explain it to you. I do not need your approval.

Any post you make that assumes otherwise is based on a false premise and is therefore invalid.

You are perfectly within your rights to exclude anyone you find unworthy from your church. You can commit any discriminatory practices you want to keep the 'undesirables' from your congregation.

But if you operate a licensed business offering services to the public, your 'right' to discriminate against a group you deem unworthy of your services ends when you open your shop for business. Otherwise, other ersatz Christians can start discriminating against other groups as they hide behind their peculi9ar dogma.

Would you go to any baker that was forced to bake something?
I wouldn't
How do you know if they did or did not spit into your baked goods.