Herman Cains plan? 9-9-9 For those that hate it

[pgm]

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

The only people in this country who pay no taxes are people who don't work and don't buy anything/live in a state without sales tax. True story.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[candycorn]

So because someone says it won't work and then tops it off with Cain is an idiot that's clueless I'm suddenly supposed to change my mind?

Fail hard friend.

I gave you circumstances under which the tax could be adjusted to protect the indigent. Try again?

I may have missed your answer:

If you accept the GOP narrative that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax, wouldn't this 9-9-9 plan then represent a tax increase on the 150,000,000+ Americans who currently supposedly are getting a free ride from Uncle Sam?

Don't mean to be redundant...but I didn't see where you answered that question from
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/189503-herman-cains-plan-9-9-9-for-those-that-hate-it-4.html#post4272396

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

Now, before you think I am slamming you, don't! I believe you do love this country. What I can't understand is since you do, why do you think that you are entitled to a free ride but everyone that makes more money than you do should have to pay your way?

Immie

Who says I get the free ride so therefore why do you assume "I think that way"?

Just wanting to be clear what we're getting for 9-9-9; since answers aren't forthcoming over 2 and 3 pages, it would seem as though the answers, when they do eventually come, will not be ones that are popular. What is popular isn't always right and what is right...isn't always popular of course.

Do you love this Country?

 

[candycorn]

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

The only people in this country who pay no taxes are people who don't work and don't buy anything/live in a state without sales tax. True story.

They are talking strictly about Federal Income Taxes. I would hope that those who harp on this time and again would acknowledge that even illegal aliens contribute to the tax base by their shopping at Wal*Mart or where ever.

Does 9-9-9 abolish state and local sales taxes or State income taxes as well? If not, it looks like this is a turkey for the GOP. If you're going to say, on one hand, that 1/2 of you aren't paying federal income taxes; thats a shit load of votes you're flushing down the proverbial toilet when you explain that another 9 percent of the income is going to be taken away because that same 1/2 of people think they are taxed too high already; regardless of their Federal Income Tax status.

 

[CT9]

I will never vote for the head of the Kansan fed. Ever. I'll vote third party.

This is someone that would vote
Perry
Romney
Ron Paul
Newt
Bachmann
on down

Yet you're saying Cain/Paul 2012 in another thread?

 

[auditor0007]

First lets start off by admiting the obvious.......... Cain actually has a plan. For better or for worse he has a plan. What do the others have?

Obama has a nifty slogan, Hate the.... er I mean tax the rich.
Romney has a plan, or as many could say a maze of confusion.
Perry to my knowledge still thinks he is in first place and doesnt need a plan beyond drilling for oil.
Bachmann hate Obamacare (great plan) but very shallow
Huntsman is a lib pretending to be a Republican.
Paul has crazy followers that think he is Obiwan Kenobi
Newt has lots of ideas that will never be heard.
Santorum just wants everyone to join the angry bus.

Now back to Cains plan....

First of all I believe it is a pretty solid plan and even if you dont believe it is, it could easily be tweaked to work. Of course we would need a Senate that actually does their job and not just table ideas they disagree with rather than debating them and offering counter solutions.

1. A limit or trigger point, if you will, could be instituted on income levels to protect the poorest among us.

2. Food could be exempt from the sales tax portion.

3. Money made in the black market would eventually produce taxes when it was eventually spent on non black market goods. Thus taxing money that otherwise slips below the radar.

4. The actual tax amount could and would be debated to what is deemed a fair amount.

5. Perscription medication could be exempt.

6. Corperations that currently dodge taxes would pay just like the rest of us.

7. The class envy war would be nullified because other than the poor everyone would pay based on their ability not their status.

People once insisted the Earth was flat and their were others that believed the sun orbited the Earth. When someone opposed those ideas they were laughed at. Who gets the last laugh now?

Our tax system is fucked beyond complicated. Why not work with ideas when they are presented? Simply raising taxes solves nothing other than to raise anymosity to new levels.

I dont have any idea if his plan is worked to the point that it is as good as it can be and neither do any of you. He has stated that in the next couple of weeks he will be releasing more information on the breadth of his plan. Point is lets try to make the system better rather than just look for the next partisan talking point.

This plan works in much the same way as most state taxation plans. And in most states, the lowest income earners pay the largest portion of their income in taxes. In Texas, the lowest income earners pay four times more, as a percentage of income, than the highest income earners. States have regressive tax systems, and now Herman Cain wants to bring these regressive taxes to the federal level.

I'm just curious why you believe it would be a good idea to have the lowest income earners paying the most in taxes and the highest income earners paying the least. I suppose if nothing else, it would be a good way to lay the groundwork for another revolution.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I will never vote for the head of the Kansan fed. Ever. I'll vote third party.

This is someone that would vote
Perry
Romney
Ron Paul
Newt
Bachmann
on down

Yet you're saying Cain/Paul 2012 in another thread?

I had a change of heart over the electric fence and ground troop idea of his. I have a right to change my mind.

 

[CT9]

^^I know just wondering...

 

[Chris]

Consumption drives 70% of the American economy.

So the former Federal Reserve guy Cain wants to tax consumption and lower taxes for the rich.

Which puts a burden on the working poor.

Shifting the tax burden from the rich to the working poor.

Republicans....it's what they do.

 

[candycorn]

Consumption drives 70% of the American economy.

So the former Federal Reserve guy Cain wants to tax consumption and lower taxes for the rich.

Which puts a burden on the working poor.

Shifting the tax burden from the rich to the working poor.

Republicans....it's what they do.

It does appear that way. Its a tax increase on the Federal income tax side and a tax decrease I guess since the rich will be doing 9% as well. They pay more than that now in most cases I assume.

But if the poor can't afford to buy things due to the increased tax rate, the consumption will go down to a market determined level. I don't see anything inherently wrong about that.

It would appear to be a turkey of an idea because if they are relying on the poor to continue to consume at the same rate when goods are 9% higher (minimum), it's poor planning because anybody can tell you consumption will go down in this case. Maybe the other 9%'s will make up for decreased tax revenue from the public?

 

[Lakhota]

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

First lets start off by admiting the obvious.......... Cain actually has a plan.

No he doesn't. He has a slogan. I could just as well have said 3-3-3 and you'd have eaten that one up, too.

A national sales tax isn't even Constitutional.

 

[GHook93]

Consumption drives 70% of the American economy.

So the former Federal Reserve guy Cain wants to tax consumption and lower taxes for the rich.

Which puts a burden on the working poor.

Shifting the tax burden from the rich to the working poor.

Republicans....it's what they do.

Listen you stupid fucking communist! The price of goods isn't going to increase. First, taxes on business get passed onto the consumer. Therefore, you get hit with the taxes either way. Second, getting rid of the loopholes and bring the corporate tax down to 9% (lowest in industrialized world), will great a boom of onshoring. The poor as you call them, will have a great selection of jobs to pick from.

In regards to income tax, every one wins, esp the middle class. Not only does their income tax go down, but it replaces their payroll tax!

Getting rid of capital gains tax is beyond smart. Capital gains taxes are 401k, mutual fund investment, pension fund investment, IRA, education IRA killer. It puts a barrier between companies requiring capital/investment and the investor seeking to invest!

This plan WILL create an economy and job creation boom for the middle class!

 

[GHook93]

Congress has the ability to lay and collect taxes. It FULLY constitutional! The 9-9-9 tax is revenue neutral and a 3-3-3 isn't!

First lets start off by admiting the obvious.......... Cain actually has a plan.

No he doesn't. He has a slogan. I could just as well have said 3-3-3 and you'd have eaten that one up, too.

A national sales tax isn't even Constitutional.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Congress has the ability to lay and collect taxes. It FULLY constitutional! The 9-9-9 tax is revenue neutral and a 3-3-3 isn't!

First lets start off by admiting the obvious.......... Cain actually has a plan.

No he doesn't. He has a slogan. I could just as well have said 3-3-3 and you'd have eaten that one up, too.

A national sales tax isn't even Constitutional.

Dude, have you even read the damn thing? Answer:NO

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Only exception is the 16th amendment, which only allows for tax on INCOME.


You can't have a 9% national sales tax. The only national sales tax you can Constitutionally have is one that is guaranteed to be apportioned amongst the states based on population. In other words - if your state has twice as many people as my state, the Congress must tax your state exactly twice as much - even if the people in your state had less sales per capita than in mine.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Listen you stupid fucking communist! The price of goods isn't going to increase. First, taxes on business get passed onto the consumer.

Really? Because property taxes went up twice in the 4 years I lived in my last apartment - and my landlady didn't raise my rent the whole time. She must have forgotten to pass me the difference. Then again, maybe she isn't the easily predictable robot you seem to think businesses are and was willing to take the hit herself to retain me as a renter. Maybe the question of who pays if taxes are raised is actually not a simple one that sophomoric brains can easily can answer to feel good about themselves - maybe its a little more complex.

 

[Lakhota]

Well, I commend Cain for following the Simple City Plan. Good for him...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The force is strong among the sheep tonight.

And still no legit arguments all these pages in. Just the talking points of sheep.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Listen you stupid fucking communist! The price of goods isn't going to increase. First, taxes on business get passed onto the consumer.

Really? Because property taxes went up twice in the 4 years I lived in my last apartment - and my landlady didn't raise my rent the whole time. She must have forgotten to pass me the difference. Then again, maybe she isn't the easily predictable robot you seem to think businesses are and was willing to take the hit herself to retain me as a renter. Maybe the question of who pays if taxes are raised is actually not a simple one that sophomoric brains can easily can answer to feel good about themselves - maybe its a little more complex.

Running a business and renting a shack are not the same thing. I do run a business and taxes are figured into my overhead as well as my pricing. But don't let me stop you from counting sheep before bedtime.

Ps. You should change your name to iamshit. Same meaning.

 

[Lakhota]