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well then here's the plan budy, please, take a look and tell me where I'm wrong.Gramps... you have all the details. cain has said it complete and well thought out. All you have to do is go to his website and see the plan. Shouldn't take long, it's just a couple paragraphs.
I am at the site, 999 | for President
But I am not seeing the boogeyman. Are you making ASSumptions?
you seeing COL in there anywhere? Do you sell Makita saws? Sorry, not deductable--not made in the US of A!! Is the lumber you sell shipped down from Canada? So sorry man, give up the 9% you paid for it, it's just regular income not an expense. Do you have employees who cost you money? Dude, just pay the 9% labor is not deductable.9% Business Flat Tax
◦Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone
9% Individual Flat Tax.
◦Gross income less charitable deductions.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
9% National Sales Tax.
◦Unlike a state sales tax, which is an add-on tax that increases the price of goods and services, this is a replacement tax. It replaces taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. By replacing higher marginal rates in the production process with lower marginal rates, marginal production costs actually decline, which will lead to prices being the same or lower, not higher.
I don't have to assume anything, the plan is right there in black and white. On the other hand for you to believe that stuff does matter you have to assume a lot!!!! But hey, it's your money and you can assume any amount of it you want away.
999 | Herman Cain for President
This plan should be called "The small business destruction and illegal alien employment assurity act." Cause after it goes into effect unless you dealing strictly in cash from your customers and paying cash... you ain't gonna have much left.
Really? (I was wondering when this was coming)...the fairtax is the stupidest tax scheme ever devised. Please enlighten me as to why a conservative would support a tax that has to be set 10 point artificially high so the government has the power to send EVERY FUCKING ADULT a check every month. Does that sound remotely like "shrinking the size and scope" of the federal government and getting them "out of our lives"? Getting a freakin EITC for everyone welfare check every month deisguised as a "prebate" is NOT a good idea?I'll take "What is the bridge to the FAIRTAX for $1,000 Alex..."oh... I don't know, with a few tweaks I think the libs will love it.
it will be no harder to change than any other tax system, all it will take is a vote of the congress and the presidents signature. Progressivity and regressivity are meaningless to the congress' ability to manipulate the tax code... it's the power they have. And which tax code you have is irrelevant to thier ability to do it. Do anyone honestly think that just because 9-9-9 passed as 9-9-9 the congress couldn't tomorow say
"well, we're going to keep it 9-9-9 but were going to exempt all income below poverty level from the income tax, and to make up for it we're going to tax B2B purchases 9%... after all, why should they escape the sales tax when people have to pay it"?
Then the next day
"Ok, we need to make another adjustment, capital gains, dividends and interest are income, so they will be subject to the 9% income tax, and since that will bring in additional revenue we're going to use it to give a 9% sales tax exclusion credit (refundable) for those people living at up to 150% of the poverty level when they file their flat tax... still 9-9-9!!!!"
then the next day
"you know, it's just not fair that the only deduction people have is for charitable donations while business' get to deduct costs, it cost money for people to live too! So we're going to get rid of the business deductions and make thier tax as flat as anyone elses... Revenue-charitable donations!" 9-9-9 baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
then again!
"it is absolutely unfair that the poor who must by food and medicine have to pay the same tax on them as the rich do when they purchase furs and yachts, we're going to exempt food and medicine from the tax as it's to onerous on theose who are not wealthy, and were going to pay for it with a 9% wholesale tax on luxury items! after all, if you have to pay the tax at retail, why shouldn't big business have to pay it wholesale!" 9-9-9 all the way!!!!!!!!
all while maintining the 9-9-9ness!!!!
16th A? Buh Bye. Gubmint tyranny? Buh Bye.
Cain is "virtually" correct.
Now real world economists see a problem here. So as long as we stay "virtual" we'll be all right.
5 pages and still no coherent dissent from the left beyond its too simple and can't work. You guys are lookin pretty sad.
Form a real argument and hit me with it.
But I'm telling you, it would be much more productive to show you that it's a pathetic, gimmicky joke that's not really worthy of debate.
But I'm telling you, it would be much more productive to show you that it's a pathetic, gimmicky joke that's not really worthy of debate.
So far you haven't managed to show that.
Well Grampa, I've posted the same post on two boards and asked for someone who is from the far right to dispute my post. And in 24 hours, no takers.
You can't label me as being from the left because I agree with various points from the right, (as well the left). I am a moderate Independent, I represent Main Street America more than anything. And like Main Street America, I'm very, very disappointed with Obama, The Dems and the GOP. I might vote for Romney if he's the GOP nominee but I prefer Huntsman because he comes very close to my beliefs.
The problem you have with this thread is, you got what you asked for and you were set to disagree with the answers anyway. Exactly, what was your point of starting this thread anyway?
And this plan has been scored...it is Revenue neutral.Cain is "virtually" correct.
Now real world economists see a problem here. So as long as we stay "virtual" we'll be all right.
You haven't managed to quote an "real world economists" who see a problem with the plan.
I guess the blinders help. Try reading.well then here's the plan budy, please, take a look and tell me where I'm wrong.I am at the site, 999 | for President
But I am not seeing the boogeyman. Are you making ASSumptions?
you seeing COL in there anywhere? Do you sell Makita saws? Sorry, not deductable--not made in the US of A!! Is the lumber you sell shipped down from Canada? So sorry man, give up the 9% you paid for it, it's just regular income not an expense. Do you have employees who cost you money? Dude, just pay the 9% labor is not deductable.9% Business Flat Tax
◦Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone
9% Individual Flat Tax.
◦Gross income less charitable deductions.
◦Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
9% National Sales Tax.
◦Unlike a state sales tax, which is an add-on tax that increases the price of goods and services, this is a replacement tax. It replaces taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. By replacing higher marginal rates in the production process with lower marginal rates, marginal production costs actually decline, which will lead to prices being the same or lower, not higher.
I don't have to assume anything, the plan is right there in black and white. On the other hand for you to believe that stuff does matter you have to assume a lot!!!! But hey, it's your money and you can assume any amount of it you want away.
999 | Herman Cain for President
This plan should be called "The small business destruction and illegal alien employment assurity act." Cause after it goes into effect unless you dealing strictly in cash from your customers and paying cash... you ain't gonna have much left.
First Makita saws suck. Skill Baby, second lumber form Canada is a result of the lefts policy of eliminating logging for milling at home, then lined up to sell the raw logs to china.
You are going to get to a down side arent you.
And this plan has been scored...it is Revenue neutral.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy into the false dichotomy of a choice between what we have now and the EVEN WORSE fairtax. Didn't we do change for change sake in 2008? I support reform, I do not support insanity. I would like to see the federal government shrunk in size and scope down to about 6 cabinet departments. i would like to see the budgets of those departments divided into capital and opperations budgets and would like to see 1/2 of the opperations budgets (those that have an absolute constituional underpinning) apportioned to the states, with the capital budgets voted on on a per project basis by the congress with accompanying graduated bond issues (like the states do now). I would like to see the rest of the departments operational budgets funded with an APT as it is clearly the most free market tax there is and at that level of spending would likely be no more than .1 or .2%. I would like to see administration of these programs turned over to the states over time and the funding block granted (as apportionments) to the states to pay for them. Eventually the funding could be taken over too and the tax coiuld be completely eliminated except what is needed to fund the capital budgets of the federal departments (might get down to about .02% then)Really? (I was wondering when this was coming)...the fairtax is the stupidest tax scheme ever devised. Please enlighten me as to why a conservative would support a tax that has to be set 10 point artificially high so the government has the power to send EVERY FUCKING ADULT a check every month. Does that sound remotely like "shrinking the size and scope" of the federal government and getting them "out of our lives"? Getting a freakin EITC for everyone welfare check every month deisguised as a "prebate" is NOT a good idea?I'll take "What is the bridge to the FAIRTAX for $1,000 Alex..."
16th A? Buh Bye. Gubmint tyranny? Buh Bye.
It is better than what we have where Government chooses winners and losers through punative TAXATION.
Get your head out of the failed 16th A and the thousands of pages that have ensued.
Personally? I prefer to go back to the Founders idea before the Progressive turds took hold.
Could you post a link to these rabid cain supporters please.
Gramps thread on these boards.
Hell Gramps even admits he does not know if it is a good or bad thing (the 999 coupon), but if you don't agree with it he attacks you.
Fact is Gramps is supporting a guy that is using the Political stage of running for President to sell books.
He also attacks everyone else on the stage with an outright lie claiming they don't have plans when reality is they all have far better plans than Cain. Cain literally has no plan then of top of that he has zero backup plan. Cain's super simplistic 9 9 9 plan already has to have deductions added here and there and the loopholes are already being created because Cain never thought it through because he has no intention of being President.
Thank you for your thoughts. But I dont buy into the no intention thing. I personally chuckle at these arguments because if anyone stopped for two seconds and took their favorite pacifiers out of their mouths they would realize there isnt a plan out there that would make it through congress without revisions. I am looking for someone who will kick the table over. Our cozy compromises have us 15 trillion in debt and counting.......................
And I will say this? Rough when something NEW is tried, isn't it? Remember? WE were told 100 years ago? The 16th was just temporary...so much for takiing the words of Statist Progressives to heart?Anyways good luck guys, Cain's plan is simply starting the landslide of rejection comming from both sides, you will find yourselves in a very small minority soon enough.
:Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh:
But I'm telling you, it would be much more productive to show you that it's a pathetic, gimmicky joke that's not really worthy of debate.
So because someone says it won't work and then tops it off with Cain is an idiot that's clueless I'm suddenly supposed to change my mind?
Fail hard friend.
I gave you circumstances under which the tax could be adjusted to protect the indigent. Try again?
I may have missed your answer:
If you accept the GOP narrative that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax, wouldn't this 9-9-9 plan then represent a tax increase on the 150,000,000+ Americans who currently supposedly are getting a free ride from Uncle Sam?
Don't mean to be redundant...but I didn't see where you answered that question from
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/189503-herman-cains-plan-9-9-9-for-those-that-hate-it-4.html#post4272396
What's to elaborate? It's another thoughtless bumper-sticker slogan.
You mean like "no blood for oil" and "people before profits?"
I thought we were beyond the days of acid trips and euphoria.
How does that prove Cain wants to abolish state taxes? Are you capable of a coherent argument?
Help me out here...the Federal Sales Tax will be on top of any state and local sales taxes...right?
The Federal Income Tax of 9% across the board will be on top of any State Income taxes then, right?
