Herman Cains plan? 9-9-9 For those that hate it

[Lakhota]

OMG, is Cain the anti-Christ? After all, 2012 is just around the corner. I was sort of expecting a white anti-Christ.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

How old are you lahkota? 14?

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Immanuel]

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

The only people in this country who pay no taxes are people who don't work and don't buy anything/live in a state without sales tax. True story.

However, those of the OWS variety ARE looking for a free ride. They are the ones that I want to ask those questions of.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I may have missed your answer:

If you accept the GOP narrative that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax, wouldn't this 9-9-9 plan then represent a tax increase on the 150,000,000+ Americans who currently supposedly are getting a free ride from Uncle Sam?

Don't mean to be redundant...but I didn't see where you answered that question from
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/189503-herman-cains-plan-9-9-9-for-those-that-hate-it-4.html#post4272396

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

Now, before you think I am slamming you, don't! I believe you do love this country. What I can't understand is since you do, why do you think that you are entitled to a free ride but everyone that makes more money than you do should have to pay your way?

Immie

Who says I get the free ride so therefore why do you assume "I think that way"?

Just wanting to be clear what we're getting for 9-9-9; since answers aren't forthcoming over 2 and 3 pages, it would seem as though the answers, when they do eventually come, will not be ones that are popular. What is popular isn't always right and what is right...isn't always popular of course.

Do you love this Country?

Where did I say I assumed you did? Maybe you should try reading my post.

Yes, I do love this country and I am more than happy to pay to keep it alive and well. Nor do I blame those who have more than me for, well, for having more than me.

What is popular today is socialism. It is what the OWS crowd are fighting for. Socialism is not what this country was built upon. You're right, what is popular isn't always right.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

Where the hell did we as parents go wrong? We have taught our children to be exactly what our parents despised... communists.

Immie

 

[candycorn]

The questions I want to ask people that are making similar arguments to yours is, do you love this country? If so, why do you feel that you have the right to live here free of charge? Why do you feel that other people must pay your way?

Now, before you think I am slamming you, don't! I believe you do love this country. What I can't understand is since you do, why do you think that you are entitled to a free ride but everyone that makes more money than you do should have to pay your way?

Immie

Who says I get the free ride so therefore why do you assume "I think that way"?

Just wanting to be clear what we're getting for 9-9-9; since answers aren't forthcoming over 2 and 3 pages, it would seem as though the answers, when they do eventually come, will not be ones that are popular. What is popular isn't always right and what is right...isn't always popular of course.

Do you love this Country?

Where did I say I assumed you did? Maybe you should try reading my post.

why do you think that you are entitled to a free ride

Maybe you meant "you" in the "not me" sense? Maybe you should take remedial English courses.

Yes, I do love this country and I am more than happy to pay to keep it alive and well. Nor do I blame those who have more than me for, well, for having more than me.

What is popular today is socialism. It is what the OWS crowd are fighting for. Socialism is not what this country was built upon. You're right, what is popular isn't always right.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

Where the hell did we as parents go wrong? We have taught our children to be exactly what our parents despised... communists.

Immie

The train tracks are well behind you. Getting back to 9-9-9....does it replace the state and local taxes or is it another tax on top? I'm guessing it is does since most Cain supporters won't come on out and say it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

A plan that puts an 18% tax on food is only politically viable amongst people who either

are too rich to care, too stupid to know that that is in the plan,

or people who don't eat.

 

[rightwinger]

Who says I get the free ride so therefore why do you assume "I think that way"?

Just wanting to be clear what we're getting for 9-9-9; since answers aren't forthcoming over 2 and 3 pages, it would seem as though the answers, when they do eventually come, will not be ones that are popular. What is popular isn't always right and what is right...isn't always popular of course.

Do you love this Country?

Where did I say I assumed you did? Maybe you should try reading my post.

why do you think that you are entitled to a free ride

Maybe you meant "you" in the "not me" sense? Maybe you should take remedial English courses.

Yes, I do love this country and I am more than happy to pay to keep it alive and well. Nor do I blame those who have more than me for, well, for having more than me.

What is popular today is socialism. It is what the OWS crowd are fighting for. Socialism is not what this country was built upon. You're right, what is popular isn't always right.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

Where the hell did we as parents go wrong? We have taught our children to be exactly what our parents despised... communists.

Immie

The train tracks are well behind you. Getting back to 9-9-9....does it replace the state and local taxes or is it another tax on top? I'm guessing it is does since most Cain supporters won't come on out and say it.

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means

 

[candycorn]

Consumption drives 70% of the American economy.

So the former Federal Reserve guy Cain wants to tax consumption and lower taxes for the rich.

Which puts a burden on the working poor.

Shifting the tax burden from the rich to the working poor.

Republicans....it's what they do.

Listen you stupid fucking communist! The price of goods isn't going to increase. First, taxes on business get passed onto the consumer. Therefore, you get hit with the taxes either way. Second, getting rid of the loopholes and bring the corporate tax down to 9% (lowest in industrialized world), will great a boom of onshoring. The poor as you call them, will have a great selection of jobs to pick from.

In regards to income tax, every one wins, esp the middle class. Not only does their income tax go down, but it replaces their payroll tax!

Getting rid of capital gains tax is beyond smart. Capital gains taxes are 401k, mutual fund investment, pension fund investment, IRA, education IRA killer. It puts a barrier between companies requiring capital/investment and the investor seeking to invest!

This plan WILL create an economy and job creation boom for the middle class!

Here is a webpage I found that pretty much sums up the real world scenario:

Effective June 1, 2010 the Arizona sales tax rate for retail purchases is 6.6%. Maricopa County adds on .7% sales tax to support roads and jails. That's a total of 7.3%.

Author's Note: If you buy a dollar's worth of a taxable product, you pay $1.08 at this point. Right out of the box.


It continues on.

Then, each city may add sales tax. If you add the total of the Arizona sales tax and Maricopa County sales tax, 7.3%, to the city sales tax rate, you'll get the total retail sales tax that you'll pay when purchasing merchandise in that city.
City Sales Tax Rates in Maricopa County, Arizona

Apache Junction sales tax: 2.2%
Avondale sales tax: 2.5%
Buckeye sales tax: 3.0%
Carefree sales tax: 3.0%
Cave Creek sales tax: 3.0%
Chandler sales tax: 1.5%
El Mirage sales tax: 3.0%
Fountain Hills sales tax: 2.6%
Gila Bend sales tax: 3.0%
Gilbert sales tax: 1.5%
Glendale sales tax: 2.2%
Goodyear sales tax: 2.5%
Guadalupe sales tax: 3.0%
Litchfield Park sales tax: 2.8%
Maricopa sales tax: 2.0%
Mesa sales tax: 1.75%
Paradise Valley sales tax: 1.65%
Peoria sales tax: 1.8%
Phoenix sales tax: 2.0%
Queen Creek sales tax: 2.25%
Scottsdale sales tax: 1.65%
Surprise sales tax: 2.2%
Tempe sales tax: 2.0%
Tolleson sales tax: 2.5%
Wickenburg sales tax: 2.2%
Youngtown sales tax: 3.0%
​

So take the $0.073 cents sales tax then add in whatever city you live in's tax rate and you get addition. If you live in PHX you are adding $0.093 or ten cents when you take in the local, county, and state sales taxes.

Apparently, 9-9-9 if I understand it correctly will add nine cents to every dollar spent. Making the tax rate in PHX $0.19. If I don't have that right, please tell me what the sales tax rate in Phoenix will be if 9-9-9 were in place.

Thanks.

 

[candycorn]

Where did I say I assumed you did? Maybe you should try reading my post.

Maybe you meant "you" in the "not me" sense? Maybe you should take remedial English courses.

Yes, I do love this country and I am more than happy to pay to keep it alive and well. Nor do I blame those who have more than me for, well, for having more than me.

What is popular today is socialism. It is what the OWS crowd are fighting for. Socialism is not what this country was built upon. You're right, what is popular isn't always right.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

Where the hell did we as parents go wrong? We have taught our children to be exactly what our parents despised... communists.

Immie

The train tracks are well behind you. Getting back to 9-9-9....does it replace the state and local taxes or is it another tax on top? I'm guessing it is does since most Cain supporters won't come on out and say it.

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means

Thats how I understand it; I'm waiting for a 9-9-9 supporter to tell me I'm wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

However, those of the OWS variety ARE looking for a free ride. They are the ones that I want to ask those questions of.

Employment is not a prerequisite for exercising one’s First Amendment rights.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

You make a number of assumptions without providing any evidence – indeed: what evidence do you have that members of OWS are ‘looking for a free ride’ or are ‘socialists.’

Getting back to 9-9-9...

Why? What’s the point of discussing idiocy?

To wit:

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means.

Correct, that would be 16 percent for me as well.

 

[candycorn]

However, those of the OWS variety ARE looking for a free ride. They are the ones that I want to ask those questions of.

Employment is not a prerequisite for exercising one’s First Amendment rights.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

You make a number of assumptions without providing any evidence – indeed: what evidence do you have that members of OWS are ‘looking for a free ride’ or are ‘socialists.’

Getting back to 9-9-9...

Why? What’s the point of discussing idiocy?

To wit:

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means.

Correct, that would be 16 percent for me as well.

The only way to understand something is to discuss it; so far it sounds like a turkey. I'm willing to listen to the supporters of 9-9-9 before I embrace or dismiss it.

I don't dismiss a consumption tax out of hand. It could be seen as a regulatory tool of sorts. But I doubt the consumption taxes would be tolerable when levied on top of the state and local taxes. The costs of goods will skyrocket; it takes no great financial acumen to see that. Most sales taxes will double at least. I pay about 9 cents on the dollar. It will be 18 if 9-9-9 were in place. If I buy a laptop for $2000, that is 18 cents on the dollar making the cost $2,360, right?

Now lets get real. The real cost to me will remain $2,000 because I will go on-line and buy it. I'll go on-line and buy the new I-Phone if I wish or the next I-Pad, or the new leather sofa I want. What does Cain think that will do to the local economy? I'm not going to go to Best Buy and add $360 to my bill; I'll go to Best Buy - Computers, Video Games, TVs, Cameras, Appliances, Phones and save that $360. True only half of that goes to the City, County or State but the other half will go to the Feds. Meanwhile my assistant's mom who works at Best Buy to make ends meet becomes jeopardized by my decision based on 9-9-9's impact.

Look for your internet purchases to become more expensive. Then guess what happens. Welcome to Wholesale Electronics - China Wholesale - Dropship From China

I hope I'm wrong and that the local taxes would be reduced with the encroachment of the Feds. From the silence of the 9-9-9 supporters, I'm afraid I'm right.

 

[pgm]

Will Best Buy be able to deduct their expenses because their products are not made in the United States?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where did I say I assumed you did? Maybe you should try reading my post.

Maybe you meant "you" in the "not me" sense? Maybe you should take remedial English courses.

Yes, I do love this country and I am more than happy to pay to keep it alive and well. Nor do I blame those who have more than me for, well, for having more than me.

What is popular today is socialism. It is what the OWS crowd are fighting for. Socialism is not what this country was built upon. You're right, what is popular isn't always right.

I do not believe that the socialists who are occupying Wall Street today have any love for this nation. They seem to know nothing about what has made this nation great. They seem to want to turn us into a second Soviet experiment.

Where the hell did we as parents go wrong? We have taught our children to be exactly what our parents despised... communists.

Immie

The train tracks are well behind you. Getting back to 9-9-9....does it replace the state and local taxes or is it another tax on top? I'm guessing it is does since most Cain supporters won't come on out and say it.

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means

I'm guessing that restaurant owners won't support his national sales tax. Ironically.

 

[BenNatuf]

Congress has the ability to lay and collect taxes. It FULLY constitutional! The 9-9-9 tax is revenue neutral and a 3-3-3 isn't!

No he doesn't. He has a slogan. I could just as well have said 3-3-3 and you'd have eaten that one up, too.

A national sales tax isn't even Constitutional.

Dude, have you even read the damn thing? Answer:NO

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Only exception is the 16th amendment, which only allows for tax on INCOME.


You can't have a 9% national sales tax. The only national sales tax you can Constitutionally have is one that is guaranteed to be apportioned amongst the states based on population. In other words - if your state has twice as many people as my state, the Congress must tax your state exactly twice as much - even if the people in your state had less sales per capita than in mine.

A sales tax is not a direct tax, it is an excize, and the congress is empowered to set excize taxes. The plan sucks, but your argument sucks more.

 

[kiwiman127]

The point of this thread was to show that partisan talking points don't equate to facts and that his plan could be made to work.

I thought I made that pretty obvious in the very first post.

What isn't factual about my initial post? It's very simple scenario displayed math in conjunction with Cain's plan as described by him and statistics from the Department of Labor. I have only seen financial experts concur with my statements and yet to see an opposing position by an economist from the right.

Father of Supply Side Economics Supports Cain's '9-9-9' Plan - HUMAN EVENTS

Here's Arthur Laffer's statement to Human Events:
================================

The famed economist told HUMAN EVENTS that the proposal was pro-growth and would create the proper conditions for America’s economy to expand and thrive again.

“Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would be a vast improvement over the current tax system and a boon to the U.S. economy,” Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS in a statement. “The goal of supply-side tax reform is always a broadening of the tax base and lowering of marginal tax rates.”

Added Laffer: “Mr. Cain’s plan is simple, transparent, neutral with respect to capital and labor, and savings and consumption, and also greatly decreases the hidden costs of tax compliance. There is no doubt that economic growth would surge upon implementation of 9-9-9.”

Laffer also said that “such a system provides the least avenues to avoid paying taxes, yet also maintains the strongest incentives for work effort, production, and investment.”

http://hermancainpac.com/2011/10/art-laffer-and-paul-ryan-like-herman-cain’s-9-9-9-plan

=================================
Please note that Laffer doesn't address the fact that the Middle Class and the poor will end up paying out a larger percentage of their income that the more wealthy class with the National Sales Tax portion of 9-9-9.
Why would he do that? Probably because he's a strong Supply Side economist, in other words he strongly pro-business. And for business, 9-9-9 is a wet dream! Laffer clearly ignores the fact that 9-9-9 would be a nightmare for the Middle Class and poor. Laffer also ignores that the other half of "supply and demand" is demand! Businesses are saying that they aren't hiring because the consumer class isn't buying so there is low demand. The National Sales Tax will probably lower demand more because it pinches the consumer class's expendable income.

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe you meant "you" in the "not me" sense? Maybe you should take remedial English courses.



The train tracks are well behind you. Getting back to 9-9-9....does it replace the state and local taxes or is it another tax on top? I'm guessing it is does since most Cain supporters won't come on out and say it.

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means

Thats how I understand it; I'm waiting for a 9-9-9 supporter to tell me I'm wrong.

Cain has no right to tell states what they can charge in taxes. They would have to replace the revenue somewhere

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Cains 9% sales tax would be on top of whatever sales tax you currently pay. For me it would mean a 16% sales tax.

Don't think it will be too popular once people figure out what 9-9-9 really means

Thats how I understand it; I'm waiting for a 9-9-9 supporter to tell me I'm wrong.

Cain has no right to tell states what they can charge in taxes. They would have to replace the revenue somewhere

Cain has never said anything about changing state taxes.

Do try to keep your hate based in reality will you. Less you enjoy being looked upon with the same admiration as TM.

 

[rightwinger]

Thats how I understand it; I'm waiting for a 9-9-9 supporter to tell me I'm wrong.

Cain has no right to tell states what they can charge in taxes. They would have to replace the revenue somewhere

Cain has never said anything about changing state taxes.

Do try to keep your hate based in reality will you. Less you enjoy being looked upon with the same admiration as TM.

Exactly...that is why his plan will lead to 16% sales tax

No freak'n way Cain

Go back to making pizza

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Cain has no right to tell states what they can charge in taxes. They would have to replace the revenue somewhere

Cain has never said anything about changing state taxes.

Do try to keep your hate based in reality will you. Less you enjoy being looked upon with the same admiration as TM.

Exactly...that is why his plan will lead to 16% sales tax

No freak'n way Cain

Go back to making pizza

Why so dense? You know that money that's always missing when you get your paycheck? Yea the taxes. Well under Cain, that missing money will return to your check. Essentially offsetting the 9% sales tax. In fact you will most likely come out ahead by far with the exception of new car or new home purchases. And how many poor people buy NEW houses or cars?

Your outrage is completely comical.