Holy crap - this has to stop!

[Coyote]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

True, but on the other hand they didn't have to accept him just because he won primaries.

They didn't do it in 1912.

He won so overwelmingly that to not accept would have caused a huge revolt among their voters...people don't take brokered conventions well ....

 

[flacaltenn]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

Well there was force. Of a kind. He leveraged the "big middle" that the Repubs constantly FAIL to excite. He attacked the press (justifiably). He attacked leadership in the GOP in Congress (justifiably). Made fun of Cruz and Paul when they tried their contorted "Senate Speak" to explain votes (justifiably). SO -- he kicked ass... Embarrassed the fuck out of them. And played to the crowds.

Sold them like a salesman. Gave them what they THINK they wanted. That's dishonest. And dangerous for any politician with a BRAND to protect. But Trump doesn't give a whit about the GOP brand. It's HIS now...

 

[Divine Wind]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

What MAKES him "a Republican"? Has he written any policy that truly Conservative? He said several times that the US should leverage with MORE debt.

He cut down every one of the 16 candidates --- one by one -- with one liners and insults. Didn't NEED party support or money. He Hijacked them. At best -- he's an Indie candidate. He just LEASED the GOP and put the mgt into his servitude.

Similar deal over at the DNC. It was dynasty time. No need to encourage 17 Dems on a stage competing on the basis of abiility, leadership, honesty, etc..

Both parties are HUGELY fractured. That's why "the resistance" is now turning into a hot war. Because THEY are losing the duopoly franchise. AND they're desperate....

He ran on their ticket, that's all. Well, and he has a Republican running mate/VP so when he resigns we'll have a real Republican President.

 

[Divine Wind]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

Well there was force. Of a kind. He leveraged the "big middle" that the Repubs constantly FAIL to excite. He attacked the press (justifiably). He attacked leadership in the GOP in Congress (justifiably). Made fun of Cruz and Paul when they tried their contorted "Senate Speak" to explain votes (justifiably). SO -- he kicked ass... Embarrassed the fuck out of them. And played to the crowds.

Sold them like a salesman. Gave them what they THINK they wanted. That's dishonest. And dangerous for any politician with a BRAND to protect. But Trump doesn't give a whit about the GOP brand. It's HIS now...

The bottom line is it still comes down to the voters. Ergo, not "hijacking" involved.

 

[Divine Wind]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

True, but on the other hand they didn't have to accept him just because he won primaries.

They didn't do it in 1912.

He won so overwelmingly that to not except would have caused a huge revolt among their voters...people don't take brokered conventions well ....

Like the near-riot the Democrats had with Bernie voters heard that the DNC nomination process was, to put it nicely, skewed towards Hillary?

 

[flacaltenn]

A comedian having the bad taste to use Trumps severed head as a skit rightfully provoked mass outrage and disgust.

But multiple instances of Obama effigies, of a lynched strung up negro man, something with powerful historic symbolism, did not.

This hate and and anger isn't new, it's been building. But as long as it gets justified nothing will change.

It used to be unthinkable to portray a president in these ways.

On the Trump play....I think it's only crime is bad timing. It was an attempt to portray the current political crisis as analogous to Julius Caesar. I have not seen it but that is the impression I get. A bit like Piss Christ, if you read what the artists INTENT was. I think this play is being used as a device now to stoke further outrage, and like the lefts demonstrations against Milo speaking at universities, the right has crashed, disrupted and protested productions.

I'm a fairly well-informed news junkie. In all honesty, I did not see any representations of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama as having been lynched. Some far left publications did caricatures of the couple but nothing outrageous. Yes, I'm certain a Bing search will find many but they never hit the mainstream like the tramp Kathy Griffin. There was also no feature, award-winning movie about the assassination of George Bush.

I saw effigies of Obama hanging in a noose hit mainstream news because they were pretty awful. What Griffin did (and she's just a comedian) was also beyond the pale. I think the Obama effigies should have been condemned as strongly as what Griffin did. I don't see any difference there. I hate to think what Trump's young son thought when he saw that, or what Obama's young daughters though also. Pretty aweful stuff.

I see a difference. That preacher had stuff burning and hanging in his church yard virtually ever day. Ain't NOTHING that he didn't hang or burn. He burned Korans. He burned freakin' UNCLE SAM. He was obscure and meaningless. Griffin severed her 1st and LAST head. Possibly illegal. And then BLAMED the Trump family.

There's a long list now. From the burnt GOP campaign HQs to Madonna wanting to "blow up the WhiteHouse". I'm sorry, but making comparisons doesn't ever --- make it right.. ESPECIALLY -- if there is a MOVEMENT that condones this.

News item from Friday about 2 ladies becoming the "Leaders of the Resistance". You give it a NAME and LEADERSHIP -- and it's NOTHING like a psychotic preacher with pyromaniac tendencies...

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

Well there was force. Of a kind. He leveraged the "big middle" that the Repubs constantly FAIL to excite. He attacked the press (justifiably). He attacked leadership in the GOP in Congress (justifiably). Made fun of Cruz and Paul when they tried their contorted "Senate Speak" to explain votes (justifiably). SO -- he kicked ass... Embarrassed the fuck out of them. And played to the crowds.

Sold them like a salesman. Gave them what they THINK they wanted. That's dishonest. And dangerous for any politician with a BRAND to protect. But Trump doesn't give a whit about the GOP brand. It's HIS now...

The bottom line is it still comes down to the voters. Ergo, not "hijacking" involved.

Do you remember what became of Ross Perot's Reform party? He left that as a legacy. And it was FOUGHT over until the voters just fled. When it becomes all about achieving power and not asking HUMBLY to serve -- the party has failed.... Quickly or slowly and painfully.. Either way... It's doomed..

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A comedian having the bad taste to use Trumps severed head as a skit rightfully provoked mass outrage and disgust.

But multiple instances of Obama effigies, of a lynched strung up negro man, something with powerful historic symbolism, did not.

This hate and and anger isn't new, it's been building. But as long as it gets justified nothing will change.

It used to be unthinkable to portray a president in these ways.

On the Trump play....I think it's only crime is bad timing. It was an attempt to portray the current political crisis as analogous to Julius Caesar. I have not seen it but that is the impression I get. A bit like Piss Christ, if you read what the artists INTENT was. I think this play is being used as a device now to stoke further outrage, and like the lefts demonstrations against Milo speaking at universities, the right has crashed, disrupted and protested productions.

I'm a fairly well-informed news junkie. In all honesty, I did not see any representations of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama as having been lynched. Some far left publications did caricatures of the couple but nothing outrageous. Yes, I'm certain a Bing search will find many but they never hit the mainstream like the tramp Kathy Griffin. There was also no feature, award-winning movie about the assassination of George Bush.

I saw effigies of Obama hanging in a noose hit mainstream news because they were pretty awful. What Griffin did (and she's just a comedian) was also beyond the pale. I think the Obama effigies should have been condemned as strongly as what Griffin did. I don't see any difference there. I hate to think what Trump's young son thought when he saw that, or what Obama's young daughters though also. Pretty aweful stuff.

The big difference is everybody seen what Griffin did. I follow politics pretty closely (obviously) and during this topic was the first I heard about the Obama effigy.

Since I don't know anything about it, perhaps you can tell me who sponsored that effigy; who actually performed it; what happened to them? Was it one person or an entire group? I just don't know. Maybe provide a site where I can learn about it would be nice.

 

[Markle]

Yeah the whole problem with reforming the Electoral College system is that it only seems to come up every four years because that's the only time it's in operation. By then it's too late and we scratch our heads and go "why didn't we fix this before?" and we squawk about it and then do nothing. Four years later we do it all over again.

As frustrating as it is to you and your ilk, the Electoral College perfectly serves its purpose. Were it not for the Electoral College, candidates would campaign in a dozen or so cities and the rest of the country would be slaves and cash cows to the citizens of those few wrecked cities.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

For years Republican voters have been ignored by the RNC. When they didn't produce, they made excuses: We don't have the Congress, we don't have the Senate, we don't have the White House, but if we did, look out brother, because we will shove your agendas right up their ass!!!

Yet when the debates came along, Trump was the only one that represented our views. He was the only one that didn't pussy foot around. The others? They were talking "immigration reform." WTF did we ask for reform? We asked that immigration be stopped. We asked that Planned Parenthood be defunded. We asked the same of Commie Care, and all we got was excuses from the RNC.

The Republican voters sent a message to the RNC by nominating Trump. It's only our hope is that they are finally starting to listen. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Pogo]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

True, but on the other hand they didn't have to accept him just because he won primaries.

They didn't do it in 1912.

He won so overwelmingly that to not accept would have caused a huge revolt among their voters...people don't take brokered conventions well ....

That was one of his many threats --- that if he didn't get the nom there would be riots. It's kind of ironic that he actually used (threat of) terrorism to get nominated, though considering his caustic personality, completely predictable.

Would he have delivered? Maybe. But they could have, if they'd had the stones.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So WTF does that have to do with these activist judges?

how come every time a leftie judge makes a ruling you don't like they are an activist judge but when a rightie does they same they're sticking to the constitution?

Tell me the last time a righty judge ruled a law that's been on the books for years to be unconstitutional just because of who happened to be enforcing it. The law has been used in the past repeatedly, yet now it's ruled unconstitutional and discriminatory?

But let's go out on a limb here. Let's say that Trump DID ban Muslims from coming to this country, where in the Constitution does it state that constitutional rights belong to those outside our country as well as within?

To my knowledge, the US Constitution provides rights to people who are in our borders--not those wanting to enter our borders.

 

[Coyote]

A comedian having the bad taste to use Trumps severed head as a skit rightfully provoked mass outrage and disgust.

But multiple instances of Obama effigies, of a lynched strung up negro man, something with powerful historic symbolism, did not.

This hate and and anger isn't new, it's been building. But as long as it gets justified nothing will change.

It used to be unthinkable to portray a president in these ways.

On the Trump play....I think it's only crime is bad timing. It was an attempt to portray the current political crisis as analogous to Julius Caesar. I have not seen it but that is the impression I get. A bit like Piss Christ, if you read what the artists INTENT was. I think this play is being used as a device now to stoke further outrage, and like the lefts demonstrations against Milo speaking at universities, the right has crashed, disrupted and protested productions.

I'm a fairly well-informed news junkie. In all honesty, I did not see any representations of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama as having been lynched. Some far left publications did caricatures of the couple but nothing outrageous. Yes, I'm certain a Bing search will find many but they never hit the mainstream like the tramp Kathy Griffin. There was also no feature, award-winning movie about the assassination of George Bush.

I saw effigies of Obama hanging in a noose hit mainstream news because they were pretty awful. What Griffin did (and she's just a comedian) was also beyond the pale. I think the Obama effigies should have been condemned as strongly as what Griffin did. I don't see any difference there. I hate to think what Trump's young son thought when he saw that, or what Obama's young daughters though also. Pretty aweful stuff.

I see a difference. That preacher had stuff burning and hanging in his church yard virtually ever day. Ain't NOTHING that he didn't hang or burn. He burned Korans. He burned freakin' UNCLE SAM. He was obscure and meaningless. Griffin severed her 1st and LAST head. Possibly illegal. And then BLAMED the Trump family.

There's a long list now. From the burnt GOP campaign HQs to Madonna wanting to "blow up the WhiteHouse". I'm sorry, but making comparisons doesn't ever --- make it right.. ESPECIALLY -- if there is a MOVEMENT that condones this.

News item from Friday about 2 ladies becoming the "Leaders of the Resistance". You give it a NAME and LEADERSHIP -- and it's NOTHING like a psychotic preacher with pyromaniac tendencies...

I wasn't thinking about the nutty preacher - I was thinking about other effigies - there were many. I'm sorry but I don't think it was either obscure or meaningless at all especially in light of the other attacks on Obama and making comparisons makes a valid point - what's happening now happened before and was ignored, until it reached this level. Why was it ok when the right attacked Obama but not when the left attacked Trump? Seems to me it should all have been condemned at the beginning but it wasn't.

You think the first hundred days of Trump was bad? Wasn't any better for Obama: How Years Of The Right-Wing Media’s Obama Hatred Paved The Way For Trump (yes, it's Media Matters)

Here's a list you forget about:
Multiple attacks from media personalities, and even elected officials questioning Obama's birth and legitimacy.
Effigies of a black president hanging from a noose.
On Facebook, Trump’s Longtime Butler Calls for Obama to Be Killed – Mother Jones
Pa. newspaper: Sorry we published letter calling for Obama's execution
Ted Nugent - a celebrity with at least as high a profile and media presence as Griffin repeatedly making references to killing Obama as well as derogatory statements.

You don't think property was destroyed or burned?
Conservatives forget history in discrediting Trump protesters

Obama’s election in 2008 was preceded and followed by violent attacks and property destruction targeted against minorities.

Kaylon Johnson, an African American campaign worker for Obama, was physically assaulted for wearing an Obama T-shirt in Louisiana following the 2008 election. The three white male attackers shouted “Fuck Obama!” and “****** president!” as they broke Johnson’s nose and fractured his eye-socket, requiring surgery.

More frequently, Obama’s presidency was marked by effigies of our first black president hanging from nooses across the country, for example in Kentucky, Washington State, and Maine, or being burned around the world. What Trump supporters fail to remember is that following Obama’s election, property was destroyed across the country, for example in Pennsylvania, Texas, and North Carolina, and a predominately black church was torched in Massachusetts.​

How about video games killing Obama, or a carnival game - shoot Obama.
And lets not forget multiple assassination threats and shooting bullets at the White House.

It all leads up to what is happening now only then - the people pitching a fit over excessive vitriole justified it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

For years Republican voters have been ignored by the RNC. When they didn't produce, they made excuses: We don't have the Congress, we don't have the Senate, we don't have the White House, but if we did, look out brother, because we will shove your agendas right up their ass!!!

Yet when the debates came along, Trump was the only one that represented our views. He was the only one that didn't pussy foot around. The others? They were talking "immigration reform." WTF did we ask for reform? We asked that immigration be stopped. We asked that Planned Parenthood be defunded. We asked the same of Commie Care, and all we got was excuses from the RNC.

The Republican voters sent a message to the RNC by nominating Trump. It's only our hope is that they are finally starting to listen. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Exactly.. The GOP didn't EXPECT to lead. Or -- even win. Because they 7 years to develop plans and legislation for being the dominant majority and they prepared NOTHING. Clear on Healthcare. Clear on Taxes and every other critical item.

There's a reason for this. And it's NOT because the GOP voters were not sending firebrands to DC for the past 6 or 8 years. They DID. And those activists got SQUELCHED.. Be them Tea Party or just naive go-getters, the GOP alienated and WORSE -- conspired to kill their "movement" with the Dems.

This is exactly what folks NEED TO REALIZE.. There are only the PARTY BOSSES controlling Congress. Members don't count worth shit for work flow, policy statements, even DISSENT. It's not allowed.

Trump got the "Tea Party" treatment. But rallied the public with his "art of the scam deal" over-selling.

Much like the Dems hunted all the Southern Blue Dogs to extinction because their support on pork and spending was not reliable. Those Southern Blue Dogs were pretty close to Libertarians. In FACT, they were GREAT Libertarians. And they represented more than 40% of Southern voters. But they embarrassed the Great Urban Blue Team and forced to go extinct. Leaving the loyal Dems in the south completely abandoned.. But who needs them hickey country rubes anyways??

 

[Divine Wind]

....The Republican voters sent a message to the RNC by nominating Trump. It's only our hope is that they are finally starting to listen. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

That they did. We'll see. Our nation has been in transition for several years and, as stated before, I think we are reaching the end of this cycle.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

True, but on the other hand they didn't have to accept him just because he won primaries.

They didn't do it in 1912.

He won so overwelmingly that to not accept would have caused a huge revolt among their voters...people don't take brokered conventions well ....

That was one of his many threats --- that if he didn't get the nom there would be riots. It's kind of ironic that he actually used (threat of) terrorism to get nominated, though considering his caustic personality, completely predictable.

Would he have delivered? Maybe. But they could have, if they'd had the stones.

Well YEAH.. There were INSANE people talking about INSTALLING a party loyalist like Romney at the Convention. Lists of names floating around. NO ONE had to stoke "riots". It would have been spontaneous. Because CLEARLY -- the GOP wasn't gonna hand it to Mr Second Place Cruz....

BUT -- cooler heads prevailed. They realized they've been had by El Loco Cheeto Grande and they took off for their winter estates in Florida....

 

[Coyote]

Same goes for the Libertarian party. No frickin' way is a Libertarian ever going to be President until a majority of states are Libertarian.

Don't know about that. Depends on the Candidates. Der Trumpenmeister ain't a Repub. He Hijacked a party by force and bullying and I have NO fucking idea what he is. Folks say -- he's "populist"... WE can be "populist" too. Because the public and the media think Populist = being for the people and against the swamp....

I could make that "populist" case. But certainly, another ex governor or ex Senator who's fricking tired of being muzzled by the Party bosses could do it better. I truly think the right person could win it under an LParty banner. Wouldn't ever be a "libertarian ideologue" who wants to starts from 1st principles. But -- the party is mature enough now to actually understand that GOVERNING and fantasizing about IDEALS are two different things.

But yeah.. Having a bunch of Indies in Congress and the state houses is PROBABLY how you get folks to drop the I'm voting for only "winners" mistake. BEFORE this inevitable destruction happens..

True about depending on the candidates, but disagree Trump is an example. He didn't hijack the party; the Re publican party has been imploding for years. I remember several articles about the "Republican Civil War" and the "Republican soul searching" throughout the Bush 43 years. Now that war has reached it's endgame.

I think he did hijack it...they did NOT want him...emphatically...and his win for candidate was a sucker punch.

Agreed his nomination was a punch to the gut of the RNC but still disagreed about hijacking.

Hijacking means taking by force. Trump won by votes. If anything it was the majority of Republican members who hijacked control of the party away from the ruling elite. Too bad the Democrat voters couldn't do that to their party, eh?

For years Republican voters have been ignored by the RNC. When they didn't produce, they made excuses: We don't have the Congress, we don't have the Senate, we don't have the White House, but if we did, look out brother, because we will shove your agendas right up their ass!!!

Yet when the debates came along, Trump was the only one that represented our views. He was the only one that didn't pussy foot around. The others? They were talking "immigration reform." WTF did we ask for reform? We asked that immigration be stopped. We asked that Planned Parenthood be defunded. We asked the same of Commie Care, and all we got was excuses from the RNC.

The Republican voters sent a message to the RNC by nominating Trump. It's only our hope is that they are finally starting to listen. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

It's interesting because Democrats are saying the same thing about their party.

 

[Markle]

In fact, all the libertarians are the SURVIVORS at Fox News. You have Greg Gutfeld, Kat Timpf, Stossel, Kennedy, to some extent Cavuto --- ALL libertarian. We're good at policy.. We SUCK at campaigning. That's gonna get fixed...

The international policies of Libertarians destroy any serious chance they have of becoming a competitive party. Until they revise that view drastically, they are, and always will be, also-rans.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yet when the debates came along, Trump was the only one that represented our views. He was the only one that didn't pussy foot around. The others? They were talking "immigration reform." WTF did we ask for reform? We asked that immigration be stopped. We asked that Planned Parenthood be defunded. We asked the same of Commie Care, and all we got was excuses from the RNC.

The Republican voters sent a message to the RNC by nominating Trump. It's only our hope is that they are finally starting to listen. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Why should immigration be stopped? Why didn't they say the same thing when your forebears immigrated? Why should PP be defunded?

 

[flacaltenn]

Whatever the public reaction is to this complete failure of leadership -- do NOT let the PARTIES lead us into conflict. That's THEIR corporate issues. Don't REWARD them for the chaos and dereliction of duty.

Just shoo them out. Turn off the noise and THEN we can assess if we want to TALK or just scream at each other..