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So....rightwinger....people break into your home....and you want to give them the absolute power to determine your fate from that point forward....you trust these people who just broke through your door to administer "just enough" of a beating...and no more than that....to not decide "hey, let's not leave any witnesses".....or "hey, let's rape the old woman in front of her husband"........you want that power to be in the sole hands of the people who just broke into your home....
I would rather that old couple have the choice to choose the other way....shooting them out of their F*****g socks for breaking into their home.......
We just have a different tolerance point for uncivilized behavior.......
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
So....rightwinger....people break into your home....and you want to give them the absolute power to determine your fate from that point forward....you trust these people who just broke through your door to administer "just enough" of a beating...and no more than that....to not decide "hey, let's not leave any witnesses".....or "hey, let's rape the old woman in front of her husband"........you want that power to be in the sole hands of the people who just broke into your home....
I would rather that old couple have the choice to choose the other way....shooting them out of their F*****g socks for breaking into their home.......
We just have a different tolerance point for uncivilized behavior.......
Other than your romantic visions about shooting badguys, you have no way of knowing what the result would have been if more guns were added to the equation
In general, more guns= more shooting and more shooting= more deaths
If the victims had had a gun they would have prompted a shootout with the robbbers and all been massacred
Not true. I could have easily shot all three mexicans before they reached their car.
The threat was over so I let em slide..but dont think I didnt reconsider after I let em go.
They may have went on to hurt someone else,and that still weighs on my mind even after years.
If the homeowners had been armed the robbers would have immediately seen them as more of a threat and lined them up and killed them execution style one by one
This is how Kleck did it.....
Armed Resistance to Crime The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun
Each interview began with a few general "throat-clearing" questions about problems facing the R's community and crime. The interviewers then asked the following question: "Within the past five years, have you yourself or another member of your household used a gun, even if it was not fired, for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere? Please do not include military service, police work, or work as a security guard." Rs who answered "yes" were then asked: "Was this to protect against an animal or a person?" Rs who reported a DGU against a person were asked: "How many incidents involving defensive uses of guns against persons happened to members of your household in the past five years?" and "Did this incident [any of these incidents] happen in the past twelve months?" At this point, Rs were asked "Was it you who used a gun defensively, or did someone else in your household do this?"
All Rs reporting a DGU were asked a long, detailed series of questions establishing exactly what happened in the DGU incident. Rs who reported having experienced more than one DGU in the previous five years were asked about their most recent experience. When the original R was the one who had used a gun defensively, as was usually the case, interviewers obtained his or her firsthand account of the event. When the original R indicated that some other member of the household was the one who had the, experience, interviewers made every effort to speak directly to the involved person, either speaking to that person immediately or obtaining times and dates to call back. Up to three call-backs were made to contact the DGU-involved person. We anticipated that it would sometimes prove impossible to make contact with these persons, so interviewers were instructed to always obtain a proxy account of the DGU from the original R, on the assumption that a proxy account would be better than none at all. It was rarely necessary to rely on these proxy accounts--only six sample cases of DGUs were reported through proxies, out of a total of 222 sample cases.
Yes they are asking in the past 5 years. Well as has been clearly shown here with our examples they have no idea when. So sure they will say yes its in 5 year when it might be 7, 12, or 15. This is one of the ways his survey is loaded with false positives.
You must have read past the question..."Did this incident happen in the last 12 months ?"...
and no, not false positives...they didn't make up defensive gun uses...that would be a false positive....again, there is more of a chance of under reporting not over reporting....
But you keep making things up brain......
Yes but as has been shown here these people have no idea how long it has been. So even if it was 2 years ago they will say it was a year. And the calculation from the survey are dependent on answers which are accurate. You just don't seem to get that. They aren't accurate as was just proven in this thread.
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
That's odd. I have been serving on the Sheriff's Auxiliary Volunteers for 6 years...in fact, I am on duty tonight...and I have NEVER heard of anyone being prosecuted for "brandishing a gun" in a defensive situation. I guess that only happens in communities where the paranoids live.
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
If the victims had had a gun they would have prompted a shootout with the robbbers and all been massacred
Not true. I could have easily shot all three mexicans before they reached their car.
The threat was over so I let em slide..but dont think I didnt reconsider after I let em go.
They may have went on to hurt someone else,and that still weighs on my mind even after years.
If the homeowners had been armed the robbers would have immediately seen them as more of a threat and lined them up and killed them execution style one by one
This is how Kleck did it.....
Armed Resistance to Crime The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun
Each interview began with a few general "throat-clearing" questions about problems facing the R's community and crime. The interviewers then asked the following question: "Within the past five years, have you yourself or another member of your household used a gun, even if it was not fired, for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere? Please do not include military service, police work, or work as a security guard." Rs who answered "yes" were then asked: "Was this to protect against an animal or a person?" Rs who reported a DGU against a person were asked: "How many incidents involving defensive uses of guns against persons happened to members of your household in the past five years?" and "Did this incident [any of these incidents] happen in the past twelve months?" At this point, Rs were asked "Was it you who used a gun defensively, or did someone else in your household do this?"
All Rs reporting a DGU were asked a long, detailed series of questions establishing exactly what happened in the DGU incident. Rs who reported having experienced more than one DGU in the previous five years were asked about their most recent experience. When the original R was the one who had used a gun defensively, as was usually the case, interviewers obtained his or her firsthand account of the event. When the original R indicated that some other member of the household was the one who had the, experience, interviewers made every effort to speak directly to the involved person, either speaking to that person immediately or obtaining times and dates to call back. Up to three call-backs were made to contact the DGU-involved person. We anticipated that it would sometimes prove impossible to make contact with these persons, so interviewers were instructed to always obtain a proxy account of the DGU from the original R, on the assumption that a proxy account would be better than none at all. It was rarely necessary to rely on these proxy accounts--only six sample cases of DGUs were reported through proxies, out of a total of 222 sample cases.
Yes they are asking in the past 5 years. Well as has been clearly shown here with our examples they have no idea when. So sure they will say yes its in 5 year when it might be 7, 12, or 15. This is one of the ways his survey is loaded with false positives.
You must have read past the question..."Did this incident happen in the last 12 months ?"...
and no, not false positives...they didn't make up defensive gun uses...that would be a false positive....again, there is more of a chance of under reporting not over reporting....
But you keep making things up brain......
Yes but as has been shown here these people have no idea how long it has been. So even if it was 2 years ago they will say it was a year. And the calculation from the survey are dependent on answers which are accurate. You just don't seem to get that. They aren't accurate as was just proven in this thread.
Soooooo, now that you see how it serves your purpose, you have dropped your accusations of lying?
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....
I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.
I am not buying the assertion that a major portion of defensive actions with guns are not reported to the police...unless you are counting one gangster backing down from another because he drew his gun first. If I ever felt that my gun just saved my life, you can bet your sweet ass that I would be on 911 before the dust settled on their footprints.
Most cases of a gun being used are merely showing the gun to the criminal with the intent on using it and they leave the scene....since they don't want to get shot and they don't want to get arrested....and they can easily find someone who doesn't have a gun to attack......
And If you decide to tell the police you displayed your gun.......will you be arrested for brandishing.....disturbing the peace, wreckless endangerment, will you have your permit to carry suspended, .....there are a lot of reasons not to report a crime if you used your gun to scare off the criminal...ask the woman from Pennsylvania who informed the New Jersey police officer she had a legal permit to carry a gun and that she had a gun........then she was arrested and faced 3 years in jail because her permit wasn't valid in New Jersey...
There is a huge risk that you take when you deal with police and prosecutors if you use a gun to defend yourself, even if you don't fire it....
Like the guy in the SUV driving through Ferguson during the protest...his car was surrounded, they smashed his rear window....and when he drew his pistol and held it ready as he called 911, the attackers also called police to report him drawing his weapon......the police showed up and took him into custody......I imagine he was released later...but he was still left dealing with the police....and what if he had to retain a lawyer....that isn't cheap.......
So yes....people who use a gun to stop or prevent a crime do not always report it to the police....especially if no shots were fired.....
And if nothing happened and you report it....what do the police report...........you were approached and threatened...the guy ran away when you displayed your pistol...........
To the law enforcement types here on U.S.....what do you report that as?
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
Brain...again...they are not my numbers...they are the numbers from actual experts in the field of criminology and other research areas, who have conducted over 16 studies on the actual use of guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save live.......these over 16 studies were conducted over a 40 year period, done by both public and private research experts, who were for the most part anti gun or neutral on the topic, with the most recent by gun grabber obama and his CDC who spent 10 million dollars trying to find numbers that would give them the power to get rid of guns....and they failed.....after spending 10 million dollars to do it.....so your efforts are really in vain....if gun grabber obama can't discredit these over 16 studies there is no way you can.......
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....
I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.
You have posted nonsense several times.....my defense is over 16 different, actual studies on the defensive use of guns to stop violent criminal attack, done over 40 years by both private and public experts in the field of research.......yours....you don't like the numbers so they aren't real.....
Yeah....who is really more delusional.........
So....rightwinger....people break into your home....and you want to give them the absolute power to determine your fate from that point forward....you trust these people who just broke through your door to administer "just enough" of a beating...and no more than that....to not decide "hey, let's not leave any witnesses".....or "hey, let's rape the old woman in front of her husband"........you want that power to be in the sole hands of the people who just broke into your home....
I would rather that old couple have the choice to choose the other way....shooting them out of their F*****g socks for breaking into their home.......
We just have a different tolerance point for uncivilized behavior.......
Other than your romantic visions about shooting badguys, you have no way of knowing what the result would have been if more guns were added to the equation
In general, more guns= more shooting and more shooting= more deaths
Actually that isn't true....I would love to see an impartial link to that belief.....because as has been shown and as you have reported and brain has reported......with more Americans owning and actually carrying guns for protection....the crime rate has gone down...that means the gun violence rate is going down...therefore you are wrong again...more guns do not mean more shooting and more deaths....since the gun murder rate has been going down as has the accidental gun death rate...
Again, you are just wrong......
And many defenses are just gun owners intimidating other people and not really valid defenses.
But not reporting doesn't explain why they would defend more violent crimes than are committed. They are a minority and only 11 million carry. The numbers you claim are impossible.
How many rapes go unreported.....how many other crimes go unreported because they don't think the police can do anything.....playing with numbers is fun but since you aren't an actual researcher you don't know the real numbers.......and the FBI stats, and the NCVS stats all depend on people and law enforcement agencies actually sending in reports and then updating reports that change the stats....so you will never get the real number....
and yes...stopping a violent crime or preventing one.....means it many times it was not completed...thus not reported....
None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?
No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....
I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.
You have posted nonsense several times.....my defense is over 16 different, actual studies on the defensive use of guns to stop violent criminal attack, done over 40 years by both private and public experts in the field of research.......yours....you don't like the numbers so they aren't real.....
Yeah....who is really more delusional.........
This is how Kleck did it.....
Armed Resistance to Crime The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun
Each interview began with a few general "throat-clearing" questions about problems facing the R's community and crime. The interviewers then asked the following question: "Within the past five years, have you yourself or another member of your household used a gun, even if it was not fired, for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere? Please do not include military service, police work, or work as a security guard." Rs who answered "yes" were then asked: "Was this to protect against an animal or a person?" Rs who reported a DGU against a person were asked: "How many incidents involving defensive uses of guns against persons happened to members of your household in the past five years?" and "Did this incident [any of these incidents] happen in the past twelve months?" At this point, Rs were asked "Was it you who used a gun defensively, or did someone else in your household do this?"
All Rs reporting a DGU were asked a long, detailed series of questions establishing exactly what happened in the DGU incident. Rs who reported having experienced more than one DGU in the previous five years were asked about their most recent experience. When the original R was the one who had used a gun defensively, as was usually the case, interviewers obtained his or her firsthand account of the event. When the original R indicated that some other member of the household was the one who had the, experience, interviewers made every effort to speak directly to the involved person, either speaking to that person immediately or obtaining times and dates to call back. Up to three call-backs were made to contact the DGU-involved person. We anticipated that it would sometimes prove impossible to make contact with these persons, so interviewers were instructed to always obtain a proxy account of the DGU from the original R, on the assumption that a proxy account would be better than none at all. It was rarely necessary to rely on these proxy accounts--only six sample cases of DGUs were reported through proxies, out of a total of 222 sample cases.
Yes they are asking in the past 5 years. Well as has been clearly shown here with our examples they have no idea when. So sure they will say yes its in 5 year when it might be 7, 12, or 15. This is one of the ways his survey is loaded with false positives.
You must have read past the question..."Did this incident happen in the last 12 months ?"...
and no, not false positives...they didn't make up defensive gun uses...that would be a false positive....again, there is more of a chance of under reporting not over reporting....
But you keep making things up brain......
Yes but as has been shown here these people have no idea how long it has been. So even if it was 2 years ago they will say it was a year. And the calculation from the survey are dependent on answers which are accurate. You just don't seem to get that. They aren't accurate as was just proven in this thread.
Soooooo, now that you see how it serves your purpose, you have dropped your accusations of lying?
Where is your research on eyewitness accounts?
