Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim

[chanel]

Unfortunately wed end up with Biden. Would Pelosi become VP?

 

[Zoom-boing]

View attachment 7698

Where Obama was born | Obama Conspiracy Theories

Hawaii Homelands declares Short Form GOOD ENOUGH! | Obama Conspiracy Theories

So how come all of you looking for proof of the hospital he was born at aren't responding to this post?

From one of your links:

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The first sentence says there are two forms - certificates and certifications. The certificate has more info (I'm assuming this is what is referred to as the long form). This sentence 'although original birth certificates are preferred for their greater detail' . . . well, that's exactly why people would like Obama to release the certificate (long form). Clearly there is more information on the certificate. What are 'the greater details'? Is there something on there that he doesn't want people to see? If not, then why not release it and put the whole issue to rest?

 

[Yurt]

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

manu.....they're talking about the certifcation, not certificate....they have not seen the original....else how can they claim to have posted high resolution photographs of it? they are lying or mistaken....your pick

That was pretty early on in this mess when Fact Check wrote that. I don't think the entire "certificate / certification" bullshit had been raised. In any case, clinging to those terms as some sort of proof of a conspiracy is pure desperation.

As far as your standing argument, perhaps someone will have standing. It looks like someone MIGHT get somewhere with this in CA, but I doubt it. Don't get your hopes up. The reality is that the President has important business to tend to. Unless someone can state a valid claim, for which relief can be granted, no court is going to force the President to deal with what amounts to pure harassment from conspiracy theorist.

And if this photo copy of the original is ever produced, you be sure to get on board with beating back all these fucking retards who have claimed "why doesn't he just put this to rest?". The same people who are going to continue to cry foul and conspiracy no matter what. The same people who want this original viewed will reject it as a forgery.

This whole issue is an exercise in retarded, partisan futility.

you again prove you are the most partisan, ignorant poster on this board....

my entire point has always been solely about standing and why he doesn't provide a copy of the original like mccain....

mccain went all out to shut the issue down....obama....quite the opposite from one who claims to have a fight the smears site

 

[jvn]

BTW, if anyone is paying attention, a court in California ruled that Orly Taitz has standing in her Keyes v. Obama case and that the case will proceed on it's own merits.

The government has 60 days to respond.

Looks like the case is finally going to be heard on it's own merits, so you birthers won't have to whine about that anymore.

My understanding is that the hearing today was on whether or not she had served the defendants appropriately under the applicable regulations, not whether the plaintiffs had standing.

Do you have a link?

ETA: Nevermind.

 

[jvn]

Just a quick note or two:

First, actually Congress DOES write our citizenship law, LOL

Second, the reason the Senate didn;t have a hearing on President Obama's eligibility?

There was no question that, being born in the United States, he was eligible.

Sometime the simplest answer IS the right one...

 

[Modbert]

From one of your links:

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The first sentence says there are two forms - certificates and certifications. The certificate has more info (I'm assuming this is what is referred to as the long form). This sentence 'although original birth certificates are preferred for their greater detail' . . . well, that's exactly why people would like Obama to release the certificate (long form). Clearly there is more information on the certificate. What are 'the greater details'? Is there something on there that he doesn't want people to see? If not, then why not release it and put the whole issue to rest?

But you failed to read this and what I bolded above:

“There’s only one form of birth certificate,” she said, and it’s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.

“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said. “That’s the birth certificate.”

As for the theory that Obama’s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama’s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.

So if you're going to accept this theory then Obama was born in Honolulu, and that's that.

 

[Sweet Willy]

manu.....they're talking about the certifcation, not certificate....they have not seen the original....else how can they claim to have posted high resolution photographs of it? they are lying or mistaken....your pick

That was pretty early on in this mess when Fact Check wrote that. I don't think the entire "certificate / certification" bullshit had been raised. In any case, clinging to those terms as some sort of proof of a conspiracy is pure desperation.

As far as your standing argument, perhaps someone will have standing. It looks like someone MIGHT get somewhere with this in CA, but I doubt it. Don't get your hopes up. The reality is that the President has important business to tend to. Unless someone can state a valid claim, for which relief can be granted, no court is going to force the President to deal with what amounts to pure harassment from conspiracy theorist.

And if this photo copy of the original is ever produced, you be sure to get on board with beating back all these fucking retards who have claimed "why doesn't he just put this to rest?". The same people who are going to continue to cry foul and conspiracy no matter what. The same people who want this original viewed will reject it as a forgery.

This whole issue is an exercise in retarded, partisan futility.

you again prove you are the most partisan, ignorant poster on this board....

my entire point has always been solely about standing and why he doesn't provide a copy of the original like mccain....

mccain went all out to shut the issue down....obama....quite the opposite from one who claims to have a fight the smears site

Yurt, someone already entered the fact that McCain did not provide any certificate. It was produced by the other party.

The senate hearings on McCain were of the non-binding variety. The Supreme Court would have the final say. And if McCain had won the election, the courts would have never heard any extreme claims about his eligibility either.

The question has officially been satisfied. The proof is self evident, from the official birth record, to the subsequent verifications, to the birth announcements, to the filing of the original, that there is no reasonable way to refute it. There is no reasonable way to even suspect it. It's a wild guess that requires a paranoid amount of mental gymnastics to even follow.

Let me put it this way:

If these many strange and timely events occurred in perfect harmony in 1961, as you nut balls insist they must have, and a teenage girl was somehow compelled to have a baby in Kenya, somehow pinpoint his B day accurately before it happened, coordinate a ploy to either have his grandparents do all this dirty work of filing for the BC four days later and calling in the birth announcement manually to the newspaper, having it appear perfectly in order, on the same day as the other babies born that day, at that hospital, in that city in that county, in that state, in this country, at that time OR this teenage girl managed to travel to Kenya, birth the baby, get on a plane, fly to Hawaii, using the 1961 transportation system, apparently sprint to the Health Department, the news papers, baby in tow and perfectly execute this so that Barak Obama will one day, by the slimest of every probability, be able to obtain a short form BC, that will one day carry him into the WhiteHouse.

If this teenage girl was able to pull that off, SHE SHOULD BE THE FUCKING PRESIDENT.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I will make one concession to the above post:

If one or the other of the "good vs. evil" religions is right, Barak Obama is indeed, either the son of God or the son of Satan. No way that shit happened without other worldly intervention.

 

[DiveCon]

Unfortunately wed end up with Biden. Would Pelosi become VP?

uh, no, Pelosi would remain speaker of the house
Biden would become POTUS and sellect a new V-POTUS(to be confirmed by the US Senate)

this is basic civics

 

[geauxtohell]

LMAO.....

original jurisdiction

I wasn't aware that this was a dispute between states.

Even your birther barrister heros, Berg and Taitz have filed in lower courts.

 

[Zoom-boing]

From one of your links:

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The first sentence says there are two forms - certificates and certifications. The certificate has more info (I'm assuming this is what is referred to as the long form). This sentence 'although original birth certificates are preferred for their greater detail' . . . well, that's exactly why people would like Obama to release the certificate (long form). Clearly there is more information on the certificate. What are 'the greater details'? Is there something on there that he doesn't want people to see? If not, then why not release it and put the whole issue to rest?

But you failed to read this and what I bolded above:

“There’s only one form of birth certificate,” she said, and it’s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.

“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said. “That’s the birth certificate.”

As for the theory that Obama’s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama’s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.

So if you're going to accept this theory then Obama was born in Honolulu, and that's that.

Yes, the certification of live birth would say so . . . unless it was forged. Which is part of the dispute. I'm not saying it was I'm saying since there are lawsuits and dispute about this, and it seems to be growing rather than going away. . . . why wouldn't Obama just obtain the certificate (long form) and put the whole thing to rest? One phone call and one piece of paper would quell this whole thing.

 

[Sweet Willy]

From one of your links:


The first sentence says there are two forms - certificates and certifications. The certificate has more info (I'm assuming this is what is referred to as the long form). This sentence 'although original birth certificates are preferred for their greater detail' . . . well, that's exactly why people would like Obama to release the certificate (long form). Clearly there is more information on the certificate. What are 'the greater details'? Is there something on there that he doesn't want people to see? If not, then why not release it and put the whole issue to rest?

But you failed to read this and what I bolded above:

“There’s only one form of birth certificate,” she said, and it’s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.

“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said. “That’s the birth certificate.”

As for the theory that Obama’s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama’s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.

So if you're going to accept this theory then Obama was born in Honolulu, and that's that.

Yes, the certification of live birth would say so . . . unless it was forged. Which is part of the dispute. I'm not saying it was I'm saying since there are lawsuits and dispute about this, and it seems to be growing rather than going away. . . . why wouldn't Obama just obtain the certificate (long form) and put the whole thing to rest? One phone call and one piece of paper would quell this whole thing.

That last sentence is completely wrong. The nut balls have already made "alternate" claims about exactly how Obama is not a citizen. The Indonesia and Pakistan theories have already been laid out and revealing the original BC will not end the controversy.

You simply don't feed this bullshit.

 

[Zoom-boing]

But you failed to read this and what I bolded above:


So if you're going to accept this theory then Obama was born in Honolulu, and that's that.

Yes, the certification of live birth would say so . . . unless it was forged. Which is part of the dispute. I'm not saying it was I'm saying since there are lawsuits and dispute about this, and it seems to be growing rather than going away. . . . why wouldn't Obama just obtain the certificate (long form) and put the whole thing to rest? One phone call and one piece of paper would quell this whole thing.

That last sentence is completely wrong. The nut balls have already made "alternate" claims about exactly how Obama is not a citizen. The Indonesia and Pakistan theories have already been laid out and revealing the original BC will not end the controversy.

You simply don't feed this bullshit.

"Revealing the original BC will not end the controversy" . . . . hard to say since no one has seen the original. Which is what all the hoopla is about.

If you click on the link below it will show you what information is on a long form vs. a short form for forms from 1963. It also states that is it possible to have been born outside of Hawaii and still obtain the latter form (short form) but not the former (long form). You'll likely dismiss this because the source is WDN; I'm linking it because it shows the two different forms.

What's the difference?

I've no doubt that no matter what was presented, there will always be those who will dispute it. But if one phone call and one piece of paper would shut the lawsuits down and satisfy the majority, then . . . . why not just do it?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yes, the certification of live birth would say so . . . unless it was forged. Which is part of the dispute. I'm not saying it was I'm saying since there are lawsuits and dispute about this, and it seems to be growing rather than going away. . . . why wouldn't Obama just obtain the certificate (long form) and put the whole thing to rest? One phone call and one piece of paper would quell this whole thing.

That last sentence is completely wrong. The nut balls have already made "alternate" claims about exactly how Obama is not a citizen. The Indonesia and Pakistan theories have already been laid out and revealing the original BC will not end the controversy.

You simply don't feed this bullshit.

"Revealing the original BC will not end the controversy" . . . . hard to say since no one has seen the original. Which is what all the hoopla is about.

If you click on the link below it will show you what information is on a long form vs. a short form for forms from 1963. It also states that is it possible to have been born outside of Hawaii and still obtain the latter form (short form) but not the former (long form). You'll likely dismiss this because the source is WDN; I'm linking it because it shows the two different forms.

What's the difference?

I've no doubt that no matter what was presented, there will always be those who will dispute it. But if one phone call and one piece of paper would shut the lawsuits down and satisfy the majority, then . . . . why not just do it?

Revealing the original will not end the controversy. The nut balls have already gone after these alternate theories about Indonesia and Pakistan. The BC does nothing to put them to rest. Nor any other theory.

The WND and other conspiracy claims are completely false. His BC was filed for four days after his birth. If you believe it was a hoax, then you are signing onto the afore mentioned scenario in which a pregnant teenager pulled this whole thing together or there was some other party or parties, who in 1961, conspired to care enough about the bi racial pregnancy of a teenager from Kansas, to concoct the whole conspiracy and carry it out for some unknown reason. Or do you believe they somehow knew this teenager was pregnant with a future president?

And who called in the birth announcements in both news papers and why did they do that and how did they get Obama listed on the proper day, in the propper order with the other babies confirmed to be born that day, at the same hospital?

How did that happen? Who knew all about the process and the timing of birth announcements in both papers? And who went to the lengths to track down all of the births that day? And who was it that knew the person that laid out the birth announcement page well enough to get to the them and have them place Obama's name in the right issue, with all the other babies from the same hospital, in the right order?

You can't make this stuff up any better. You guys should get off the political conspiracy wagon and put together a shitty spy movie script. Because that's all you have. A shitty, science fiction tale that no court is going to entertain.

 

[Yurt]

Revealing the original will not end the controversy

i guess if you repeat something enough times you will believe it....

just look how many people on this board are only interested in the issue becuase he won't release a copy of the original, they're even talking about any other issues...get it through your head....

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...

 

[Sweet Willy]

Revealing the original will not end the controversy

i guess if you repeat something enough times you will believe it....

just look how many people on this board are only interested in the issue becuase he won't release a copy of the original, they're even talking about any other issues...get it through your head....

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...

Yes Yurt, you idiots have repeated this baseless crap long enough that more people are now questioning rational thought. Good for you. Is there anymore mass paranoia, sympathy pains, or other forms of mental wrong headedness you would like to be a part of spreading? Maybe you would be interested in handing out some leaflets on the street corner?

 

[Yurt]

Revealing the original will not end the controversy

i guess if you repeat something enough times you will believe it....

just look how many people on this board are only interested in the issue becuase he won't release a copy of the original, they're even talking about any other issues...get it through your head....

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...

Yes Yurt, you idiots have repeated this baseless crap long enough that more people are now questioning rational thought. Good for you. Is there anymore mass paranoia, sympathy pains, or other forms of mental wrong headedness you would like to be a part of spreading? Maybe you would be interested in handing out some leaflets on the street corner?

you idiots....wtf are you babbling aobut....i repeat it no more than you do, i am responding in threads...are you here just babble ad homs? it appears you're getting upset because it is not going away....i'm telling you, he releases a copy of the original like mccain and its over...for the vast majority...now stop making stuff up and answer this:

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...

 

[Yurt]

LMAO.....

original jurisdiction

I wasn't aware that this was a dispute between states.

Even your birther barrister heros, Berg and Taitz have filed in lower courts.

google the term, you're missing the rest of what original jurisdiction covers...

 

[Zoom-boing]

That last sentence is completely wrong. The nut balls have already made "alternate" claims about exactly how Obama is not a citizen. The Indonesia and Pakistan theories have already been laid out and revealing the original BC will not end the controversy.

You simply don't feed this bullshit.

"Revealing the original BC will not end the controversy" . . . . hard to say since no one has seen the original. Which is what all the hoopla is about.

If you click on the link below it will show you what information is on a long form vs. a short form for forms from 1963. It also states that is it possible to have been born outside of Hawaii and still obtain the latter form (short form) but not the former (long form). You'll likely dismiss this because the source is WDN; I'm linking it because it shows the two different forms.

What's the difference?

I've no doubt that no matter what was presented, there will always be those who will dispute it. But if one phone call and one piece of paper would shut the lawsuits down and satisfy the majority, then . . . . why not just do it?

Revealing the original will not end the controversy. The nut balls have already gone after these alternate theories about Indonesia and Pakistan. The BC does nothing to put them to rest. Nor any other theory.

The WND and other conspiracy claims are completely false. His BC was filed for four days after his birth. If you believe it was a hoax, then you are signing onto the afore mentioned scenario in which a pregnant teenager pulled this whole thing together or there was some other party or parties, who in 1961, conspired to care enough about the bi racial pregnancy of a teenager from Kansas, to concoct the whole conspiracy and carry it out for some unknown reason. Or do you believe they somehow knew this teenager was pregnant with a future president?

And who called in the birth announcements in both news papers and why did they do that and how did they get Obama listed on the proper day, in the propper order with the other babies confirmed to be born that day, at the same hospital?

How did that happen? Who knew all about the process and the timing of birth announcements in both papers? And who went to the lengths to track down all of the births that day? And who was it that knew the person that laid out the birth announcement page well enough to get to the them and have them place Obama's name in the right issue, with all the other babies from the same hospital, in the right order?

You can't make this stuff up any better. You guys should get off the political conspiracy wagon and put together a shitty spy movie script. Because that's all you have. A shitty, science fiction tale that no court is going to entertain.

Since Obama refuses to have the long form released it makes me wonder . . . . he started running for president when he became Senator (and he likely set the wheels in motion before then) . . . . if this whole 'not born in Hawaii/citizenship thing' is real, he could have had his short form bc doctored rather recently, not that some 'conspiracy' has taken place since the day he was born. That was my thought anyway. Does it sound loony? No doubt. Would I put it past a politician to do this, especially a politician as narcissistic as Obama? Nope.

It is strange that the one thing he could do to put this thing to rest is the one thing he refuses to do -- simply release the original long form birth certificate. While you're correct that there would be those who will always question and doubt, if he would just release the long form, the majority of skeptics would be quieted and the issue would go away.

The longer this goes on and the longer he refuses to release the one piece of paper that would shut people up, the guiltier it makes him look.

 

[Care4all]

"Revealing the original BC will not end the controversy" . . . . hard to say since no one has seen the original. Which is what all the hoopla is about.

If you click on the link below it will show you what information is on a long form vs. a short form for forms from 1963. It also states that is it possible to have been born outside of Hawaii and still obtain the latter form (short form) but not the former (long form). You'll likely dismiss this because the source is WDN; I'm linking it because it shows the two different forms.

What's the difference?

I've no doubt that no matter what was presented, there will always be those who will dispute it. But if one phone call and one piece of paper would shut the lawsuits down and satisfy the majority, then . . . . why not just do it?

Revealing the original will not end the controversy. The nut balls have already gone after these alternate theories about Indonesia and Pakistan. The BC does nothing to put them to rest. Nor any other theory.

The WND and other conspiracy claims are completely false. His BC was filed for four days after his birth. If you believe it was a hoax, then you are signing onto the afore mentioned scenario in which a pregnant teenager pulled this whole thing together or there was some other party or parties, who in 1961, conspired to care enough about the bi racial pregnancy of a teenager from Kansas, to concoct the whole conspiracy and carry it out for some unknown reason. Or do you believe they somehow knew this teenager was pregnant with a future president?

And who called in the birth announcements in both news papers and why did they do that and how did they get Obama listed on the proper day, in the propper order with the other babies confirmed to be born that day, at the same hospital?

How did that happen? Who knew all about the process and the timing of birth announcements in both papers? And who went to the lengths to track down all of the births that day? And who was it that knew the person that laid out the birth announcement page well enough to get to the them and have them place Obama's name in the right issue, with all the other babies from the same hospital, in the right order?

You can't make this stuff up any better. You guys should get off the political conspiracy wagon and put together a shitty spy movie script. Because that's all you have. A shitty, science fiction tale that no court is going to entertain.

Since Obama refuses to have the long form released it makes me wonder . . . . he started running for president when he became Senator (and he likely set the wheels in motion before then) . . . . if this whole 'not born in Hawaii/citizenship thing' is real, he could have had his short form bc doctored rather recently, not that some 'conspiracy' has taken place since the day he was born. That was my thought anyway. Does it sound loony? No doubt. Would I put it past a politician to do this, especially a politician as narcissistic as Obama? Nope.

It is strange that the one thing he could do to put this thing to rest is the one thing he refuses to do -- simply release the original long form birth certificate. While you're correct that there would be those who will always question and doubt, if he would just release the long form, the majority of skeptics would be quieted and the issue would go away.

The longer this goes on and the longer he refuses to release the one piece of paper that would shut people up, the guiltier it makes him look.

are you under the impression that hawaii could list honolulu as obama's birth place on the short form, even if he was not born in honolulu? And that the long form would not list honolulu as the birth place?

i looked at both forms, please point out to me, the information on the long form that would conflict or be entirely different on the short form, regarding his certified place of birth?

honolulu CAN NOT be listed as his BIRTH PLACE on EITHER forms, if he were not born there, and been foreign born? So what is it that you seem to think this long form will do?

I guess i don't understand why the long form would even make your case because WE KNOW the long form WILL SAY honolulu as his birth place, because the short form is GENERATED from the long form? So, what is it that makes the long form so interesting to you guys?

Do you think the short form was a fraud and forged? The state of hawaii confirmed it wasn't, so that can't be it?

I wish I could understand this obsession with getting the long form? How will it help?

care