Hous Repblicns Wrong On Intrnet Sales Tax Bill!

[WorldWatcher]

For example I live in CT if i sell on line and a person buys a taxable item from me I add the 6.35% state sales tax to his bill just as if he was standing at my register in person.

The logic is that the tax is paid based on the location of the customer. When the customer is standing at your register, (s)he is in CT, when the customer is at home making an online purchase they aren't in CT they are in their home state.

BTW - based on what you said in another thread, you never did answer. Have you kept track of out of state purchases and then remitted the required tax to CT like is already required?

The easy way to do this is for each state that charges sales tax to charge that tax on all internet purchases made from businesses in their state.

For example I live in CT if i sell on line and a person buys a taxable item from me I add the 6.35% state sales tax to his bill just as if he was standing at my register in person.

This way the business owner is only obliged to collect, record and disburse the sales taxes of one state just as it is now.

It's a no brainer.

That is one way to do it.

However that would dent to concentrate very large online businesses into a couple of states disproportionate to their population. With the version passed by the Congress the collection of taxes will be based on the state of (a) the person paying the bill [i.e. the consumer], and (b) based on sales within that state which support that states services.

Consumer tax dollars being used to fund state services for the state where they reside is the true no brainer.



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[WorldWatcher]

Here is why I am against the internet tax bill.

When I go to Ohio and buy something I pay Ohio Sales tax.

When I go to Tennessee and buy something I pay Tennessee Sales tax.

When I go to Arizona, I pay Arizona Sales tax.

My home state doesn't get anything when I buy from out of State.

If a company is in a State that has a sales tax, I don't mind paying their sales tax if they have one. But that company should not be expected to collect my home State's sales tax also.

Then tell your state legislators to not participate in the program that will be used to fund programs in your state.

Secondly, you should check you states sales/use tax laws. When you go to Ohio and make a purchase and return with an item to your state - you may still owe your state tax. When you go to Tennessee and make a purchase and return with an item to your state - you may still owe your state tax. When you go to Ohio and make a purchase and return with an item to your state - you may still owe your state tax.

Laws vary by state, Skull Pilot provided about a similar example about going from CT to MA on a shopping trip. The CT law is that if you make an out of state purchase, and total purchases for that day exceed $25, then you still own CT it's sales/use tax even though you paid MA tax. With this law, there will no longer be owing TWO states sales tax.


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[thereisnospoon]

This bill in Congress requiring internet companies to collect state sales taxes on merchandise they sell through the internet should have sailed through to enactment. Instead, the bill which passed the Senate is hung-up in the House and you guessed it right the obstacle is the House Republicans. The House Republicans if asked will give you all kinds of baloney why they cannot vote in favor of the bill like this requirement that internet company's collect out of state sales taxes for orders on deliveries out of state is too onerous on small internet businesses. The truth of the matter on why the Republicans won't support this bill is that collectively the Republican caucus has sold their soul to the business lobby and the business lobby doesn't want this sales tax obligation because it will increase internet customers bills on internet purchases and thereby cause these customers to purchase less!



Somebody needs to tell House Republicans that their job is to do the right thing when it comes to voting on bills and it is a no brainer that the right thing is that this bill become law. Presently, out of state internet companies have an advantage over in-state retailers in a state because they don't collect a state sales tax for internet orders where the delivery is in-state and there is no valid reasoning for this advantage. Further, this is unfair to the state in question for if a company sells an item of merchandise to a customer where the customer takes possession of the merchandise in state X it doesn't matter where the order was made whether it was made in-person, over the phone, by mail, by internet inside or outside state X because it is a sale in state X that is where the customer takes possession of the merchandise. States have a right to tax sales within their state this is a simple matter of states rights. The Republican criticism that this is too onerous on small internet companies who will have the task of applying all the states in America different sales tax schemes give me a break the Republicans have got to be kidding with this one were not talking about applying the Federal income tax code here these are state sales tax standards hundreds of millions of people across America understand these standards. With many states really hard up for revenue making education cuts, making cuts in the criminal justice system, etc. House Republicans where is your brains here why incur the anger of a lot of people who will benefit from states sales tax money for an indefensible position from a justice standpoint! Come to think of it one can expect this behavior by many rank and file House Republican who won't support this legislation because their track record indicates clearly their under the control of the business lobby in America, they have sold their soul to this lobby unfortunately. But House Speaker John Boehner coming out saying he is not sure he can support the Senate bill here, where is your courage John? Speaker Boehner you're supposed to be a first rate representative doing the right thing for the American people no matter who is for or against the issue! John if you make the effort to hear past the clanging of chains which shackle your caucus' colleagues you'll hear grass roots America proclaiming loudly and clearly the message "John Grow A Spine And Pass This Legislation"!!!

Since when is creating new taxes for the sake of creating a new tax 'the right thing'..
This bill is an unconstitutional intrusion into States business.
The federal government is attempting to do the bidding of certain revenue strapped states which have run out of things and people to tax. So they ran to Washington crying like little school girls. Fuck 'em.
This thing is so stupid.
It does not address states which have no sales tax. It compels on line retailers to collect sales taxes from several states where Brick and Mortar stores collect ONLY the tax for which the store is located.
This bill adds an undue and expensive burden on internet retailers in that is forces them to hire workers to process sales tax receipts for 45 or so states, many cities and of course Wash DC sales taxes.
This bill is a load of crap. And THAT is why it's going nowhere.
BTW, who wrote your post. You didn't. Forum rules dictate users MUST provide links to copyrighted material.

 

[B. Kidd]

[...]

John if you make the effort to hear past the clanging of chains which shackle your caucus' colleagues you'll hear grass roots America proclaiming loudly and clearly the message "John Grow A Spine And Pass This Legislation"!!!

Rather than advocate for another tax on average citizens you should be agitating for a substantial tax on the super-rich. And if you need a good reason for that, here's just one:

(Excerpt)

A new report finds that around the world the extremely wealthy have accumulated at least $21 trillion in secretive offshore accounts. That’s a sum equal to the gross domestic products of the United States and Japan added together. The number may sound unbelievable, but the study was conducted by James Henry, former chief economist at the consultancy McKinsey, an expert on tax havens and offshoring. It was commissioned by Tax Justice Network, a British activist group.

Super Rich Hide $21 Trillion Offshore, Study Says - Forbes

(Close)

In view of this revelation the idea of burdening the working class with an Internet sales tax is insulting.

All too true. Continue to raise taxes on the average person locally and continue with the loopholes for wealthy Plutocrats globally.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Since when is creating new taxes for the sake of creating a new tax 'the right thing'..

These aren't new taxes, they've been on the books for years. The first time I ran into sales tax on out of state purchases was 1984, well before there was any internet.

This bill is an unconstitutional intrusion into States business.

Actually it's not. Article I Section 8 specifically grants Congress the power to regulate commerce among the several states.

The only reason that States have already not been attempting to charge sales/use tax on out of state purchases is because of the SCOTUS Quill v. North Dakota ruling and in that ruling the SCOTUS pointed out that they ruled the way they did was because Congress had not yet provided such regulation in terms of interstate commerce.

The federal government is attempting to do the bidding of certain revenue strapped states which have run out of things and people to tax. So they ran to Washington crying like little school girls. Fuck 'em.

It's not just a "few states", 45 of 50 states already charge sales tax and in general all support the improving the collection method for taxes already due.

This thing is so stupid.

Possibly, it will remain to be seen. It's probable that it will not make it out of the House.

It does not address states which have no sales tax.

That's because if a state has no sales tax, it's irrelevant to the bill. If a state has no sales/use tax, then they won't be getting any revenue - revenue they wouldn't have gotten anyway.

It compels on line retailers to collect sales taxes from several states where Brick and Mortar stores collect ONLY the tax for which the store is located.

If stores don't want to collect the taxes they are not compelled to make out of state sales.

This bill adds an undue and expensive burden on internet retailers in that is forces them to hire workers to process sales tax receipts for 45 or so states, many cities and of course Wash DC sales taxes.

False, this bill requires only one tax remittance agence for all remittance. Businessess will not have to process them individual cities (i.e. the 9,600 authorities). There will be ONE for each state.

This bill is a load of crap. And THAT is why it's going nowhere.

I agree, I think the bill will have a hard time in the house. I do think though that States (legislators and governors( will be talking to their Congressmen support the bill because of the recovery of revenue lost to internet sales.

 

[Two Thumbs]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

AGAIN

Surprised? The idea of taxing is to perpetuate the need to spend more.

No, of course not.

 

[Two Thumbs]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

AGAIN

It could not have cleared the Senate without GOP support/votes

no doubt

But lets be specific. You and I both know this didn't come from the gop

 

[JWBooth]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

AGAIN

It could not have cleared the Senate without GOP support/votes

no doubt

But lets be specific. You and I both know this didn't come from the gop

Agreed, but I don't recall any of them making a big stink about it either.

 

[Two Thumbs]

It could not have cleared the Senate without GOP support/votes

no doubt

But lets be specific. You and I both know this didn't come from the gop

Agreed, but I don't recall any of them making a big stink about it either.

I recall a little bit. warnings and such

or maybe, they let it go, knowing it would die in the House

 

[Wyatt earp]

A sales tax is justifiable because people use roads and sewers to access the store. It costs a city to provide the brick and morter store. This is true whether the city where I make purchases is my home city or not. Consequently, a sales tax actually increases econ activity by allowing customers to access stores.

If I can buy an item without the store, at a cheaper price, my doing so actually benefits the overall economy because I will have money to spend on more stuff and increase econ activity.

If a city needs to raise more revenue for something, it can get that via property taxes or even raising fees, such as water and garbabe.

and? so how do the 5 states with no sales tax do it? love to see you answer this one.

 

[Skull Pilot]

For example I live in CT if i sell on line and a person buys a taxable item from me I add the 6.35% state sales tax to his bill just as if he was standing at my register in person.

The logic is that the tax is paid based on the location of the customer. When the customer is standing at your register, (s)he is in CT, when the customer is at home making an online purchase they aren't in CT they are in their home state.

That's not logic it's needless complexity. The transaction takes place at the POS of the store.

BTW - based on what you said in another thread, you never did answer. Have you kept track of out of state purchases and then remitted the required tax to CT like is already required?

I will if you will

The easy way to do this is for each state that charges sales tax to charge that tax on all internet purchases made from businesses in their state.

For example I live in CT if i sell on line and a person buys a taxable item from me I add the 6.35% state sales tax to his bill just as if he was standing at my register in person.

This way the business owner is only obliged to collect, record and disburse the sales taxes of one state just as it is now.

It's a no brainer.

That is one way to do it.

However that would dent to concentrate very large online businesses into a couple of states disproportionate to their population. With the version passed by the Congress the collection of taxes will be based on the state of (a) the person paying the bill [i.e. the consumer], and (b) based on sales within that state which support that states services.

So what? if a state's tax policy is good for that state it's not certainly not the business of the federal government or the governments of other states.

Consumer tax dollars being used to fund state services for the state where they reside is the true no brainer.

They pay sales taxes on things they buy within the borders of their own state.
Internet purchases from businesses in other states are not purchases within those borders.

 

[buckeye45_73]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

AGAIN

yep they're always looking out for the little guy........

 

[WorldWatcher]

The transaction takes place at the POS of the store.

And the other view is that the transaction takes place where the customer does the purchase, which is their computer room located in the state where the taxes will be collected.

I will if you will

I don't, but I'm honest about it (VA also has a Use Tax). Which is why states want to change the process to the SAME paradigm used for B&M stores, from honors system after the fact to at the time of sale.

They pay sales taxes on things they buy within the borders of their own state.
Internet purchases from businesses in other states are not purchases within those borders.

Sure they are, that is where the customer is located. Logically speaking it could be argued either way location of the seller or location of the purchaser - either are equally valid.

Location of the seller would tend to concentrate large high volume sellers into a couple of states and benefit mostly those states generating revenue in sales tax where the business is located - but as your state of CT shows - customers would still be liable for Use Tax. Those states where the customer resides would still be on the "honor system" for out of state purchases where merchandize was moved into the state.

The customer location model reduces the tax liability from two states in some cases (sales tax and use tax) to a single liability and where the revenue actually goes to the location where the customers is supporting services they use.


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[WorldWatcher]

A sales tax is justifiable because people use roads and sewers to access the store. It costs a city to provide the brick and morter store. This is true whether the city where I make purchases is my home city or not. Consequently, a sales tax actually increases econ activity by allowing customers to access stores.

If I can buy an item without the store, at a cheaper price, my doing so actually benefits the overall economy because I will have money to spend on more stuff and increase econ activity.

If a city needs to raise more revenue for something, it can get that via property taxes or even raising fees, such as water and garbabe.

and? so how do the 5 states with no sales tax do it? love to see you answer this one.

You'd have to research each state without a sales tax and how they do it. IIRC that would be Alaska, Delaware, Montanna, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

For example, Alaska makes a lot of revenue from the Alaskan pipeline. So basically they are taxing the oil that flows out to make fuel that the other states purchase. Funds flow from the other states to Alaska.

For Delaware, they encourage businesses to incorporate there because there is no sales tax - but they charge the businesses incorporation fees. They charge tolls on sections of interstate highways that run through the state to fund transportation and they have a "Gross Receipts Tax" which is a tax the business pays on their amount of sales. Basically a backdoor sales tax since the customer is of course the one that pays the business.



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[auditor0007]

This bill in Congress requiring internet companies to collect state sales taxes on merchandise they sell through the internet should have sailed through to enactment. Instead, the bill which passed the Senate is hung-up in the House and you guessed it right the obstacle is the House Republicans. The House Republicans if asked will give you all kinds of baloney why they cannot vote in favor of the bill like this requirement that internet company's collect out of state sales taxes for orders on deliveries out of state is too onerous on small internet businesses. The truth of the matter on why the Republicans won't support this bill is that collectively the Republican caucus has sold their soul to the business lobby and the business lobby doesn't want this sales tax obligation because it will increase internet customers bills on internet purchases and thereby cause these customers to purchase less!



Somebody needs to tell House Republicans that their job is to do the right thing when it comes to voting on bills and it is a no brainer that the right thing is that this bill become law. Presently, out of state internet companies have an advantage over in-state retailers in a state because they don't collect a state sales tax for internet orders where the delivery is in-state and there is no valid reasoning for this advantage. Further, this is unfair to the state in question for if a company sells an item of merchandise to a customer where the customer takes possession of the merchandise in state X it doesn't matter where the order was made whether it was made in-person, over the phone, by mail, by internet inside or outside state X because it is a sale in state X that is where the customer takes possession of the merchandise. States have a right to tax sales within their state this is a simple matter of states rights. The Republican criticism that this is too onerous on small internet companies who will have the task of applying all the states in America different sales tax schemes give me a break the Republicans have got to be kidding with this one were not talking about applying the Federal income tax code here these are state sales tax standards hundreds of millions of people across America understand these standards. With many states really hard up for revenue making education cuts, making cuts in the criminal justice system, etc. House Republicans where is your brains here why incur the anger of a lot of people who will benefit from states sales tax money for an indefensible position from a justice standpoint! Come to think of it one can expect this behavior by many rank and file House Republican who won't support this legislation because their track record indicates clearly their under the control of the business lobby in America, they have sold their soul to this lobby unfortunately. But House Speaker John Boehner coming out saying he is not sure he can support the Senate bill here, where is your courage John? Speaker Boehner you're supposed to be a first rate representative doing the right thing for the American people no matter who is for or against the issue! John if you make the effort to hear past the clanging of chains which shackle your caucus' colleagues you'll hear grass roots America proclaiming loudly and clearly the message "John Grow A Spine And Pass This Legislation"!!!

Sorry, but on this one you are completely wrong. Collecting different tax rates for every single taxing authority and having to write out checks to make payments to as many as a few hundred taxing authorities per month would be one massive headache for any Internet company.

It's not as if they just need to collect sales tax for their own state; they have to collect it for every state where they ship their product.

 

[WorldWatcher]

oh and fyi; this is the dems that are sticking it to the working class

AGAIN

The sponsor of the bill in the Senate is a Republican and there are other Republican co-sponsors. 21 Republicans voted for the bill in the Senate which passed with 69 votes.

The bill had bipartisan support.



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[auditor0007]

And no one has yet mentioned how this tax would be unfair the the five states who have no sales tax...

It will have not impact on the 5 states that have no sales taxes. They don't receive tax revenue now from sales tax, they will not receive revenue afterward from sales tax.



>>>>

Yes, but forty-five other states will get all this new revenue from a federal law that five will not. So you've now got a law that treats five states unfairly.

How many of these Internet companies do you think would move their business to states without a sales tax?

 

[WorldWatcher]

This bill in Congress requiring internet companies to collect state sales taxes on merchandise they sell through the internet should have sailed through to enactment. Instead, the bill which passed the Senate is hung-up in the House and you guessed it right the obstacle is the House Republicans. The House Republicans if asked will give you all kinds of baloney why they cannot vote in favor of the bill like this requirement that internet company's collect out of state sales taxes for orders on deliveries out of state is too onerous on small internet businesses. The truth of the matter on why the Republicans won't support this bill is that collectively the Republican caucus has sold their soul to the business lobby and the business lobby doesn't want this sales tax obligation because it will increase internet customers bills on internet purchases and thereby cause these customers to purchase less!



Somebody needs to tell House Republicans that their job is to do the right thing when it comes to voting on bills and it is a no brainer that the right thing is that this bill become law. Presently, out of state internet companies have an advantage over in-state retailers in a state because they don't collect a state sales tax for internet orders where the delivery is in-state and there is no valid reasoning for this advantage. Further, this is unfair to the state in question for if a company sells an item of merchandise to a customer where the customer takes possession of the merchandise in state X it doesn't matter where the order was made whether it was made in-person, over the phone, by mail, by internet inside or outside state X because it is a sale in state X that is where the customer takes possession of the merchandise. States have a right to tax sales within their state this is a simple matter of states rights. The Republican criticism that this is too onerous on small internet companies who will have the task of applying all the states in America different sales tax schemes give me a break the Republicans have got to be kidding with this one were not talking about applying the Federal income tax code here these are state sales tax standards hundreds of millions of people across America understand these standards. With many states really hard up for revenue making education cuts, making cuts in the criminal justice system, etc. House Republicans where is your brains here why incur the anger of a lot of people who will benefit from states sales tax money for an indefensible position from a justice standpoint! Come to think of it one can expect this behavior by many rank and file House Republican who won't support this legislation because their track record indicates clearly their under the control of the business lobby in America, they have sold their soul to this lobby unfortunately. But House Speaker John Boehner coming out saying he is not sure he can support the Senate bill here, where is your courage John? Speaker Boehner you're supposed to be a first rate representative doing the right thing for the American people no matter who is for or against the issue! John if you make the effort to hear past the clanging of chains which shackle your caucus' colleagues you'll hear grass roots America proclaiming loudly and clearly the message "John Grow A Spine And Pass This Legislation"!!!

Sorry, but on this one you are completely wrong. Collecting different tax rates for every single taxing authority and having to write out checks to make payments to as many as a few hundred taxing authorities per month would be one massive headache for any Internet company.

It's not as if they just need to collect sales tax for their own state; they have to collect it for every state where they ship their product.

My apologies, but you are incorrect. What you post is not in the bill.

1. They will only have to interface with 45 Taxing Administration points. The bill requires simplified tax filing and a single point for each state. There are currently on 45 states that have sales tax.

2. Secondly, they will not be writing checks to remitting payment to the 9,600 taxing authorities (or even hundreds as you claim). They will file with one tax administration entity for each state.

3. The law requires that States that want to participate in the program provide software that allows for the automatic computation of the tax at the time of sale and files the state tax returns. States already have online funds transfer when it comes to the payment portion.

4. The legislation exempts online retailers with less than $1,000,000 in sales during the previous tax year, any business doing online sales through the internet so electronic filing and remittance will not be that much of a headache and no one is going to have to sit down and right hundreds of checks each month.



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[tjvh]

This bill in Congress requiring internet companies to collect state sales taxes on merchandise they sell through the internet should have sailed through to enactment. Instead, the bill which passed the Senate is hung-up in the House and you guessed it right the obstacle is the House Republicans. The House Republicans if asked will give you all kinds of baloney why they cannot vote in favor of the bill like this requirement that internet company's collect out of state sales taxes for orders on deliveries out of state is too onerous on small internet businesses. The truth of the matter on why the Republicans won't support this bill is that collectively the Republican caucus has sold their soul to the business lobby and the business lobby doesn't want this sales tax obligation because it will increase internet customers bills on internet purchases and thereby cause these customers to purchase less!



Somebody needs to tell House Republicans that their job is to do the right thing when it comes to voting on bills and it is a no brainer that the right thing is that this bill become law. Presently, out of state internet companies have an advantage over in-state retailers in a state because they don't collect a state sales tax for internet orders where the delivery is in-state and there is no valid reasoning for this advantage. Further, this is unfair to the state in question for if a company sells an item of merchandise to a customer where the customer takes possession of the merchandise in state X it doesn't matter where the order was made whether it was made in-person, over the phone, by mail, by internet inside or outside state X because it is a sale in state X that is where the customer takes possession of the merchandise. States have a right to tax sales within their state this is a simple matter of states rights. The Republican criticism that this is too onerous on small internet companies who will have the task of applying all the states in America different sales tax schemes give me a break the Republicans have got to be kidding with this one were not talking about applying the Federal income tax code here these are state sales tax standards hundreds of millions of people across America understand these standards. With many states really hard up for revenue making education cuts, making cuts in the criminal justice system, etc. House Republicans where is your brains here why incur the anger of a lot of people who will benefit from states sales tax money for an indefensible position from a justice standpoint! Come to think of it one can expect this behavior by many rank and file House Republican who won't support this legislation because their track record indicates clearly their under the control of the business lobby in America, they have sold their soul to this lobby unfortunately. But House Speaker John Boehner coming out saying he is not sure he can support the Senate bill here, where is your courage John? Speaker Boehner you're supposed to be a first rate representative doing the right thing for the American people no matter who is for or against the issue! John if you make the effort to hear past the clanging of chains which shackle your caucus' colleagues you'll hear grass roots America proclaiming loudly and clearly the message "John Grow A Spine And Pass This Legislation"!!!

Yay... More Taxes. You pro tax kooks are crazy.

 

[WorldWatcher]

It will have not impact on the 5 states that have no sales taxes. They don't receive tax revenue now from sales tax, they will not receive revenue afterward from sales tax.



>>>>

Yes, but forty-five other states will get all this new revenue from a federal law that five will not. So you've now got a law that treats five states unfairly.

How many of these Internet companies do you think would move their business to states without a sales tax?

Probably wouldn't be a factor as the criteria isn't the state the business is located, it's based on the location of the purchaser.

Even in States that don't have sales tax, business in that state that sell to out of state residents will be required to remit the proper tax to the purchasers state.



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