House to vote on Consumption Tax and abolish the IRS

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.
See: House Republicans to vote on bill abolishing IRS, eliminating income tax

"As a former small business owner, I understand the unnecessary burden our failing income tax system has on Americans. The Fair Tax Act eliminates the tax code, replaces the income tax with a sales tax, and abolishes the abusive Internal Revenue Service. If enacted, this will invigorate the American taxpayer and help more Americans achieve the American Dream," Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., said."

First of all, and with regard to the selling point that the Fair Tax “… abolishes the abusive Internal Revenue Service …”, in its place Duncan’s proposal creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.

Also, the alleged “Fair Tax”, if adopted, does not abolish federal taxes calculated from various types of “incomes” as suggested. Congress will still maintain the power to lay and collect “excise taxes” calculated from profits and gains, such as the Corporate Excise tax of 1909. So, right from the beginning, Rep. Duncan is suggesting something that is not true. The same IRS abuses now suffered under income taxation will continue under the fraudulent and deceptive Fair Tax, carried out under its “Excise Tax Bureau”.

And if you think businesses and individuals subject to the Fair Tax are free from filling out annual tax returns, the shocking truth is, they will have to start filling out and filing Fair Tax returns, under the penalty of perjury, every month ___ that’s twelve frickin times a year! Additionally, even ordinary working people, who sell the property each has in their own labor, and work odd jobs, such as baby sitting, handyman jobs etc., to meet today’s high cost of living, not only will they have to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, but will have to register with the federal government to exercise their inalienable right to sell their labor.

If the above is not enough to make one recoil from the notoriously evil and deceptive Fair Tax proposal, the Fair Tax would also create another entitlement called the “family consumption allowance”, which is a monthly government check sent to every household in America which allows the purchase of a rationed supply of tax-free necessities of life, and puts our entire population on the public dole!

If Rep. Duncan has one ounce of honesty in him, he would reject the alleged Fait Tax and promote the Fair Share Balance Budget Amendment which actually would abolish all federal taxes calculated from lawfully earned profits, gains, wages, etc. and end the miseries suffered under the evil tax on incomes.

JWK

When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
.

You have no clue as to what you are blathering about.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Not sure what you’re talking about here.

Using babies as anchors.

 

[Care4all]

Sales taxes are regressive taxes and a higher burden goes on the poorest and the richest have the lowest tax burden.

Look at Florida with no state income tax, but a sales tax instead....

The poorest and lowest 20% income earners pays 13% of their total income in state sales taxes,

And the highest 1% of earners in the state pay only 2% of their income in state sales taxes....

In Texas with no state income tax the poorest 20% income earners pay 12.2% of their income in state sales taxes vs the top 1% wealthiest pay about 3% of their earned income in sales taxes each year.


Sales taxes ARE REGRESSIVE....with the greatest burden on the poorest.

 

[Zincwarrior]

That's a feature not a bug.

 

[Polishprince]

Sales taxes are regressive taxes and a higher burden goes on the poorest and the richest have the lowest tax burden.

Look at Florida with no state income tax, but a sales tax instead....

The poorest and lowest 20% income earners pays 13% of their total income in state sales taxes,

And the highest 1% of earners in the state pay only 2% of their income in state sales taxes....

In Texas with no state income tax the poorest 20% income earners pay 12.2% of their income in state sales taxes vs the top 1% wealthiest pay about 3% of their earned income in sales taxes each year.


Sales taxes ARE REGRESSIVE....with the greatest burden on the poorest.

New York City has not only a huge income tax, but a colossal sales tax as well. So the people get porked two ways simultaneously.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sales taxes are regressive taxes and a higher burden goes on the poorest and the richest have the lowest tax burden.

Look at Florida with no state income tax, but a sales tax instead....

The poorest and lowest 20% income earners pays 13% of their total income in state sales taxes,

And the highest 1% of earners in the state pay only 2% of their income in state sales taxes....

In Texas with no state income tax the poorest 20% income earners pay 12.2% of their income in state sales taxes vs the top 1% wealthiest pay about 3% of their earned income in sales taxes each year.


Sales taxes ARE REGRESSIVE....with the greatest burden on the poorest.

That's the way it should be, but the rich still pay more in dollars in taxes than the poor because they buy more things.

The poor generally support Democrats, and when Democrat politicians waste money like they've been since taking over the House, the poor and even middle-class could care less. Why? It doesn't affect them.

If they could ever pass this into law, those poor and middle-class that support Democrats would have more to think about when they waste money and thus force us to increase the consumption tax. That's how we get a hold of this out of control spending. This is how you reduce or eliminate the deficit.

 

[Care4all]

New York City has not only a huge income tax, but a colossal sales tax as well. So the people get porked two ways simultaneously.

They get hit with City, state, and income tax!!! The poor likely do not make enough for the income tax....but just guessing...

 

[Care4all]

That's the way it should be, but the rich still pay more in dollars in taxes than the poor because they buy more things.

The poor generally support Democrats, and when Democrat politicians waste money like they've been since taking over the House, the poor and even middle-class could care less. Why? It doesn't affect them.

If they could ever pass this into law, those poor and middle-class that support Democrats would have more to think about when they waste money and thus force us to increase the consumption tax. That's how we get a hold of this out of control spending. This is how you reduce or eliminate the deficit.

No that is not the way it should be!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No that is not the way it should be!!

Why not? We have a consumption tax here, and no real problems.

 

[Polishprince]

One of the greatest advantages to consumption tax is the fact that it eliminates all sorts of accounting work and expenses on the part of the taxpayer. The taxpayers is told up front how much the levy is and he pays it (or doesn't if he doesn't want the good anymore)

Income tax requires all kinds of receipts to be saved up, documents for everyone to complete, confessions, all of which can be released to the general public by politicians if they desire to try and embarrass you.

Why subject people to the additional work and expense- as well as possible humiliation?

 

[g5000]

Sales taxes are regressive taxes and a higher burden goes on the poorest and the richest have the lowest tax burden.

Look at Florida with no state income tax, but a sales tax instead....

The poorest and lowest 20% income earners pays 13% of their total income in state sales taxes,

And the highest 1% of earners in the state pay only 2% of their income in state sales taxes....

In Texas with no state income tax the poorest 20% income earners pay 12.2% of their income in state sales taxes vs the top 1% wealthiest pay about 3% of their earned income in sales taxes each year.


Sales taxes ARE REGRESSIVE....with the greatest burden on the poorest.

The Fair Tax has a provision which offsets the regressive nature of a sales tax:

SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.

“Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of—
“(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and
“(2) the monthly poverty level.


This is all moot anyway. There has been a Fair Tax bill submitted during every Congressional session going back for many years.

It has been sent to the House Ways and Means Committee where it will be quietly smothered to death, just like it always is.

 

[g5000]

Why not? We have a consumption tax here, and no real problems.

As you call yourself Ray From Cleveland, I will assume you are in Ohio.

Families below the poverty level don't pay sales taxes in Ohio. Precisely because sales taxes are regressive.

That's the only reason you have "no real problems".

 

[Zincwarrior]

The Fair Tax has a provision which offsets the regressive nature of a sales tax:

SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.

“Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of—
“(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and
“(2) the monthly poverty level.


This is all moot anyway. There has been a Fair Tax bill submitted during every Congressional session going back for many years.

It has been sent to the House Ways and Means Committee where it will be quietly smothered to death, just like it always is.

Middle class still screwed.

 

[my2¢]

Fair Tax, if it's the same as it always has been introduced every other session of Congress for years-on-end is quite regressive to those that shouldn't be put upon any more than they are today. I'm speaking of those caring for themselves or family members dealing with illness, injuries, birth defects, dementia, and in home care or assisted living. A tax system that lays extra burden on a couple bearing the cost of a child having down syndrome seems wrong to me.

Plus we have the inclusive/exclusive business of when they say a Fair Tax of 23% it really means a tax of 30% thinking of it the way all other sales taxes work in this country.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Sales taxes are certainly regressive by nature, even if relatively easy to implement.

What is missed here is that sales taxes as almost universally conceived … EXCLUDE taxes on sales of stocks and other income producing financial assets.

So the rich can buy millions of dollars worth of stock (whose historical gains average about 5% annually over inflation) and pay no taxes whatever, while a poor man pays taxes on his family car, clothes, and every commodity his family needs just to survive.

Sure in many states food may not be taxed, but the reality is that the rich automatically get richer under such a reactionary system.

Adding significant taxation to most financial product transactions could raise huge revenues (simply and cleanly) and at the same time stabilize our economy by reducing much of the leveraged and computerized rapid-turnover speculation in financial markets.

Serious tax reform is possible, but only a handful of radical progressive economists are even willing to consider any such proposals today.

 

[Lisa558]

$3,650.00 per worker ($7,300/couple) would be needed to fund the current budget. Pay more than that and it sounds like a good deal. Pay less than that, and you be getting robbed.

That sounds quite reasonable to the middle class, which is being squeezed bigtime. Of course, the half of all households that don’t pay a cent will be screaming bloody murder.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As you call yourself Ray From Cleveland, I will assume you are in Ohio.

Families below the poverty level don't pay sales taxes in Ohio. Precisely because sales taxes are regressive.

That's the only reason you have "no real problems".

Wrong. Cleveland is in Cuyahoga county, and everybody here pays the consumption tax: the rich, the poor, and anybody in between. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Our tax is a mixture of 5% state tax and 3% county tax. Anytime you make a purchase (outside of food and beverage) you're going to pay it. You have no choice.

 

[g5000]

Wrong. Cleveland is in Cuyahoga county, and everybody here pays the consumption tax: the rich, the poor, and anybody in between. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Our tax is a mixture of 5% state tax and 3% county tax. Anytime you make a purchase (outside of food and beverage) you're going to pay it. You have no choice.

You are right. I was thinking of the income tax. Everyone does pay the sales tax.

Which means you are wrong that the consumption tax is not a problem.

It's a problem for low income earners due to its regressive nature.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are right. I was thinking of the income tax. Everyone does pay the sales tax.

Which means you are wrong that the consumption tax is not a problem.

It's a problem for low income earners due to its regressive nature.

They're doing fine. Like most anywhere else in the country, poverty is an option, not an infliction handed to you by God or government. Plenty of good paying jobs around here that nobody is taking.

The Democrat violin line "What about the poor, the children, the elderly" doesn't work on me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

One of the greatest advantages to consumption tax is the fact that it eliminates all sorts of accounting work and expenses on the part of the taxpayer. The taxpayers is told up front how much the levy is and he pays it (or doesn't if he doesn't want the good anymore)

Income tax requires all kinds of receipts to be saved up, documents for everyone to complete, confessions, all of which can be released to the general public by politicians if they desire to try and embarrass you.

Why subject people to the additional work and expense- as well as possible humiliation?

I think if anybody could bitch about this it's the retired people. We paid into SS and Medicare all our working years. That money may have supported seniors at that time or it may have been put away for our senior years, but either way, we paid for the benefits we receive today.

So eliminating the federal payroll tax and taxing goods instead, we will continue to pay into the benefits we already paid all of our lives. That wasn't the deal we were promised.