How could anyone be "independent" or a "swing voter" at this time in history?

[Cecilie1200]

Look, the fence sitter / Libertarian resume always sounds noble as fuck...it’s supposed to, but that doesn’t make it less ignorant.
Would I have been a total and complete dumbass if on the day of the Super Bowl I bet on the Patriots to win?
I hated both teams...the Niners and the Chiefs but one of the two were going to win...it makes first grade level sense to bet on one of the two with a chance at winning.
I know, I know...”false equivalency”....right Golfing Gator ?

I have a very high bar for the people I vote for. Basically if you have traits about you that I wouldn't want in a spouse, someone that I will spend the rest of my life with, than I'm not going to vote to put you in a position of power that effects not just me, but billions of of other people. I do not condone dishonesty or bullish behavior and I will not reward it. Now you may see that as fence sitting, but for me that is exercising the only voice I have, however miniscule it may be.

I thought that was how everyone was supposed to vote? how do you feel you are unique?

I never said I was.

you posted it as you were special in your decision making prospects. You imply others don't have a high bar for people they vote for. again, it would seem you either have someone who matches all your criteria or no one. Compromise is necessary, otherwise you'd never get a candidate voted in. What a waste of a vote.

I never implied I was special. All I did was state my own criteria. And I am well aware that my bar is so high that I probably won't be voting any time soon. But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

If the alternative is to allow someone who will destroy the nation to become President, yes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your emotions have you by the balls...daddy issues maybe?
Most of us have / had grandfathers, fathers, brothers, uncles, friends, mentors, pastors...etc etc...We don't really look to the POTUS for emotional support...we vote for real leaders pushing effective policies, leaders willing to fight for Americas best citizens. This really shouldn't be all that trivial.

The person I vote for is going to be someone who doesn't slam others just for having a different view point. They're going to be someone who doesn't feel the need to deceive or lie about themselves or others. This person will fight to unite us all, not just one party. If you want to see that as me letting my emotions getting the best of me than you go ahead. But I will not vote for someone who strives on division and hate.

oh, name one of those politicians?

I will when I find one.

so you don't vote

Not unless someone good comes along.

So meanwhile, someone awful is welcome to take over while you wait for someone who meets your standards of good.

You remind me of Mitt Romney. A moral stance, taken in a vacuum with no reference to the ethical situation to which it will be applied, can all-too-easily become immoral in its evil consequences. And you can quote me on that.

 

[Mac1958]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

I'll never vote "the lesser of two evils" or do it to spite a candidate because of the actions of someone else. Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

I have a moral for you. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

Well, we're sadly far beyond that now.

We're not all required to be a part of it, thankfully.
.

The "good men" who allow evil to flourish by standing by and doing nothing are still part of it, no matter how much they assure themselves they're not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

 

[Mac1958]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

And there it is.

Wingers don't like independents. We expose you for what you are.

Too bad.
.

 

[Red Wolf]

I have a very high bar for the people I vote for. Basically if you have traits about you that I wouldn't want in a spouse, someone that I will spend the rest of my life with, than I'm not going to vote to put you in a position of power that effects not just me, but billions of of other people. I do not condone dishonesty or bullish behavior and I will not reward it. Now you may see that as fence sitting, but for me that is exercising the only voice I have, however miniscule it may be.

so you and mac have no compromise possible to vote for a candidate. it's all or nothing huh?

Depends on what you're asking for. I'm not so much concerned about policy position as I am over who the person is as a person.

Your emotions have you by the balls...daddy issues maybe?
Most of us have / had grandfathers, fathers, brothers, uncles, friends, mentors, pastors...etc etc...We don't really look to the POTUS for emotional support...we vote for real leaders pushing effective policies, leaders willing to fight for Americas best citizens. This really shouldn't be all that trivial.

The person I vote for is going to be someone who doesn't slam others just for having a different view point. They're going to be someone who doesn't feel the need to deceive or lie about themselves or others. This person will fight to unite us all, not just one party. If you want to see that as me letting my emotions getting the best of me than you go ahead. But I will not vote for someone who strives on division and hate.

So until Jesus Christ shows up and throws His hat in the ring, you're just going to abstain and let the world function as it will without your input? What other things in your life do you just blow off and let spiral into Hell unobstructed because of a lack of perfect choices?

I don't owe anyone my support. Who I back is my decision and my right and for you to act like asking for decent human behavior that we expect from anyone else is an unrealistic expectation from our politicians then maybe you need to reevaluate your standards. But when you put two different plates full of feces in front of me and expect me to choose, you don't get to act indignant when I refuse. My choice, my voice, I will use it however I see fit. But no one is entitled to my support.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

And there it is.

Wingers don't like independents. We expose you for what you are.

Too bad.
.

And there it is. Independents don't like realists. We expose you for what you are.

Too bad.

Call me when you replace your ego with some cojones.

 

[Red Wolf]

I have a very high bar for the people I vote for. Basically if you have traits about you that I wouldn't want in a spouse, someone that I will spend the rest of my life with, than I'm not going to vote to put you in a position of power that effects not just me, but billions of of other people. I do not condone dishonesty or bullish behavior and I will not reward it. Now you may see that as fence sitting, but for me that is exercising the only voice I have, however miniscule it may be.

I thought that was how everyone was supposed to vote? how do you feel you are unique?

I never said I was.

you posted it as you were special in your decision making prospects. You imply others don't have a high bar for people they vote for. again, it would seem you either have someone who matches all your criteria or no one. Compromise is necessary, otherwise you'd never get a candidate voted in. What a waste of a vote.

I never implied I was special. All I did was state my own criteria. And I am well aware that my bar is so high that I probably won't be voting any time soon. But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

If the alternative is to allow someone who will destroy the nation to become President, yes.

Both parties are always convinced the other one wants to destroy the nation. I'm not buying into that.

If people actually talked to one another with the intent to listen and learn then we would actually begin to try and do what's best for this nation and hold our leaders accountable equally.

 

[xyz]

Democrats want a global state with no border, with one big giant command center of unelected "experts," to redistribute all resources according to mob demand. LOL

 

[Red Wolf]

The person I vote for is going to be someone who doesn't slam others just for having a different view point. They're going to be someone who doesn't feel the need to deceive or lie about themselves or others. This person will fight to unite us all, not just one party. If you want to see that as me letting my emotions getting the best of me than you go ahead. But I will not vote for someone who strives on division and hate.

oh, name one of those politicians?

I will when I find one.

so you don't vote

Not unless someone good comes along.

So meanwhile, someone awful is welcome to take over while you wait for someone who meets your standards of good.

You remind me of Mitt Romney. A moral stance, taken in a vacuum with no reference to the ethical situation to which it will be applied, can all-too-easily become immoral in its evil consequences. And you can quote me on that.

We already have something awful because people refuse to listen and talk. Hate has become fashionable and people cheer on the insults and jabs made at others simply for having a different view point. How do you suppose we make something great from division and rhetoric? It's only by us being the very best that we can that we'll get the people worth leading us. But to say that I "have" to support someone is ridiculous. Settling for meh is a horrible way to give someone a nob.

 

[Cecilie1200]

so you and mac have no compromise possible to vote for a candidate. it's all or nothing huh?

Depends on what you're asking for. I'm not so much concerned about policy position as I am over who the person is as a person.

Your emotions have you by the balls...daddy issues maybe?
Most of us have / had grandfathers, fathers, brothers, uncles, friends, mentors, pastors...etc etc...We don't really look to the POTUS for emotional support...we vote for real leaders pushing effective policies, leaders willing to fight for Americas best citizens. This really shouldn't be all that trivial.

The person I vote for is going to be someone who doesn't slam others just for having a different view point. They're going to be someone who doesn't feel the need to deceive or lie about themselves or others. This person will fight to unite us all, not just one party. If you want to see that as me letting my emotions getting the best of me than you go ahead. But I will not vote for someone who strives on division and hate.

So until Jesus Christ shows up and throws His hat in the ring, you're just going to abstain and let the world function as it will without your input? What other things in your life do you just blow off and let spiral into Hell unobstructed because of a lack of perfect choices?

I don't owe anyone my support. Who I back is my decision and my right and for you to act like asking for decent human behavior that we expect from anyone else is an unrealistic expectation from our politicians then maybe you need to reevaluate your standards. But when you put two different plates full of feces in front of me and expect me to choose, you don't get to act indignant when I refuse. My choice, my voice, I will use it however I see fit. But no one is entitled to my support.

No one said you owed any candidate your support, Chuckles. You're busy arguing the point you WISH this was about, because you don't want to face the reality of the real topic.

Your support is owed to the society around you, and the individual people who make up that society, and the society which will exist in the future. You owe it to all of the above to do what you can to make the world better, or at least to prevent it from becoming worse. And if you're more interested in congratulating yourself on your "high morals" in dismissing anything and anyone imperfect as "feces" and beneath your vaunted, oh-so-valuable vote than you are in dealing with the realities of who will make things better and who will work evil, then YOU are the one not meeting basic decent human behavior.

 

[Red Wolf]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

I'll never vote "the lesser of two evils" or do it to spite a candidate because of the actions of someone else. Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

I have a moral for you. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I'm not asking for perfect, I'm asking for common human decency. The same that I want from all the people in my life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I thought that was how everyone was supposed to vote? how do you feel you are unique?

I never said I was.

you posted it as you were special in your decision making prospects. You imply others don't have a high bar for people they vote for. again, it would seem you either have someone who matches all your criteria or no one. Compromise is necessary, otherwise you'd never get a candidate voted in. What a waste of a vote.

I never implied I was special. All I did was state my own criteria. And I am well aware that my bar is so high that I probably won't be voting any time soon. But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

If the alternative is to allow someone who will destroy the nation to become President, yes.

Both parties are always convinced the other one wants to destroy the nation. I'm not buying into that.

If people actually talked to one another with the intent to listen and learn then we would actually begin to try and do what's best for this nation and hold our leaders accountable equally.

Most independents are always convinced that everything is about "parties", and can just be dismissed as beneath them without any real thought.

If people who blather about "talk to one another with the intent to listen and learn" would actually LISTEN AND LEARN, they might not spend as much time posting nonsensical "responses" to posts which have no relation to what's being said in the post.

And yes, I AM calling you a pretentious hypocrite, just in case that wasn't clear.

 

[Mac1958]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

I'll never vote "the lesser of two evils" or do it to spite a candidate because of the actions of someone else. Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

I have a moral for you. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I'm not asking for perfect, I'm asking for common human decency. The same that I want from all the people in my life.

Wingers always have an excuse to lower standards for their tribe. The other tribe always deserves what they get.

So it just gets lower and lower over time, as we're seeing.
.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Relevant viewing and a hint of what to expect down the road in terms of meaningful coalition.



I suspect she'll do very well in NH. But putting that prediction aside, it's not really about trying to just hurry up and get elected. Huh uh. As I've always maintained, it's about changing the course of history. This takes time. And coalitions must be built. And sometimes, just sometimes, mind you, it happens like a thief in the night. By the mid part of the current decade many will be met with the consequence of ignoring what was evolving in broad daylight. Doesn't matter anyway. They can't stop it, even if they were paying attention. It's too late. All of the players are basically into position already. Gonna likely start the engine and get it warmed up again soon. Maybe let it idle for a while.

 

[Red Wolf]

Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

Well, we're sadly far beyond that now.

We're not all required to be a part of it, thankfully.
.

The "good men" who allow evil to flourish by standing by and doing nothing are still part of it, no matter how much they assure themselves they're not.

How is my voting for someone who insults a group of people for their view points me fighting evil? If they're not qualified for the position than I'm not going to put them there.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Indy’s take great pride in casting a meaningless vote...they honestly believe that voting for Mickey Mouse is empowering...it’s the weirdest shit in politics...ask Golfing Gator about it...he’ll spin it for you.

And yet, your vote for Trump in Cali had the same exact impact as my vote for Johnson in my state. But your vote means something and mine does not. The two parties count on people like you, and you never let them down.

Does that mean you’d vote duopoly if you lived in Michigan? Or would you still vote for Mickey Mouse?

A vote for Johnson in Michigan would still have as much impact on the election as your vote for Trump in Cali.

Haha...that’s your spin, run with it.
So you weirdos will spend hours a day on a message board talking politics then refuse to cast an impactful vote come election time...and you brag about that like it makes sense to anybody not weird.
Why even fuck with national politics...why not save yourself all the time, effort and headache...why vote at all....Mickey Mouse will never win.

And yet, your vote for Trump in Cali had the same exact impact as my vote for Johnson in my state. But your vote means something and mine does not. The two parties count on people like you, and you never let them down