How do people survive on minimum wage?

[thereisnospoon]

There is no way to defend the George W. Bush administration allowing the national debt to increase by $4 trillion. Because there are people like the Tea Party minded citizens, it was the utter disgust with new entitlements and irresponsible spending that caused the GOP to lose their majority in 2006. It was the same disgust that caused enough of the conservative base to reject John McCain so that Barack Obama could be elected.

But at least the Bush administration did do some things right, and implemented an economic policy that was generating treasury revenues that were bringing the deficit down sharply in the last four years. Even in 2008 when the housing bubble burst, had it not been for the TARP bail out that was over and above budget, the deficit would have been the lowest of any of President Bush's eight years.

In contrast, President Obama has pushed for not a single policy that would reduce the deficit, but rather has generated trillion plus dollar deficits every year for his entire term and has implemented policies that will continue those as far as the eye can see.

The minimum wage is the least of our problems right now, but those who have no ambition and who think the world owes them a living of course want a higher minimum wage that is not tied to any form of productivity. And that is how we are in this mess and why somebody like Barack Obama is so wrong for freedom loving people. When you want other people to provide you with what you are not willing to work for to provide for yourself, you have trillion dollar deficits. And you bankrupt your country. A minimum wage unrelated to productivity only contributes to that because it is nothing other than redistribution of wealth.

In no country in the world has 'spreading the wealth' unrelated to productivity produced anything but a lower standard of living and/or resulted in spreading misery.

You are a sick evil racist homophobe who just wants people to starve in the streets!!!!!!










/sarcasm

YEAH!!! What HE just said!

 

[koshergrl]

And working their asses off.

And the ones who do that don't earn minimum wage for long. As an employer, I can tell you most minimum wage workers are not worth minimum wage. They are unreliable for showing up, the quality of their work, taking care of customers. If you pay them more, you get the same worker who's more expensive. The ones who care get raises. The rest are continual churn. Government doesn't get them higher wages, government gets them fired when the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you believe facts and data and things like that.

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

 

[barry1960]

And the ones who do that don't earn minimum wage for long. As an employer, I can tell you most minimum wage workers are not worth minimum wage. They are unreliable for showing up, the quality of their work, taking care of customers. If you pay them more, you get the same worker who's more expensive. The ones who care get raises. The rest are continual churn. Government doesn't get them higher wages, government gets them fired when the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you believe facts and data and things like that.

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

 

[healthmyths]

There is no way to defend the George W. Bush administration allowing the national debt to increase by $4 trillion. Because there are people like the Tea Party minded citizens, it was the utter disgust with new entitlements and irresponsible spending that caused the GOP to lose their majority in 2006. It was the same disgust that caused enough of the conservative base to reject John McCain so that Barack Obama could be elected.

But at least the Bush administration did do some things right, and implemented an economic policy that was generating treasury revenues that were bringing the deficit down sharply in the last four years. Even in 2008 when the housing bubble burst, had it not been for the TARP bail out that was over and above budget, the deficit would have been the lowest of any of President Bush's eight years.

In contrast, President Obama has pushed for not a single policy that would reduce the deficit, but rather has generated trillion plus dollar deficits every year for his entire term and has implemented policies that will continue those as far as the eye can see.

The minimum wage is the least of our problems right now, but those who have no ambition and who think the world owes them a living of course want a higher minimum wage that is not tied to any form of productivity. And that is how we are in this mess and why somebody like Barack Obama is so wrong for freedom loving people. When you want other people to provide you with what you are not willing to work for to provide for yourself, you have trillion dollar deficits. And you bankrupt your country. A minimum wage unrelated to productivity only contributes to that because it is nothing other than redistribution of wealth.

In no country in the world has 'spreading the wealth' unrelated to productivity produced anything but a lower standard of living and/or resulted in spreading misery.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!
$5 trillion over 30 years means $166 billion in lost Federal tax revenue started 2002!
Courtesy of the Dot.com bust of 2001!
$2 trillion over 30 years courtesy of a minor event known as 9/11!! another $66 billion a year in lost federal tax revenue starting 2003!
$1 trillion in worst hurricane seasons in HISTORY generating $33 billion in LoST revenue starting in 2004..
Nearly $300 billion a year in LoST federal REVENUE has a little just a minor AFFECT ON FEDERAL REVENUES which at $2.5 trillion is about 1/4th being WRITTEN OFF!

NONE of that seems to be KNOWLEDGE to ANYONE!! WHY??
Nearly $300 billion a year from events that BUSH had NOTHING zero to do with but people keep that old cliched worn out "spending like a drunken sailor" ignorant comment about Bush!

ONCE and for all DID those events happen? YES!
Did they cost $8 trillion in market, businesses destroyed jobs lost, YES!
But has ANYONE recognized those EVENTS and what it meant to the BUDGET?? NO!!!

 

[koshergrl]

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

No, you said you want people who are working at jobs that require no skill be paid more so they can move out of poverty. In other words, you want to pay more money for less skill.

And I know all about crap work, I've paid my dues you fucking twit. I've waited tables and wiped ass. I would have worked at McD's but apparently I didn't have what it took, lol. But I definitely applied. I am not disrespecting people who work at minimum age jobs.

I'm disrespecting the assholes who think that you should be able to buy a house when you have no skills and no qualifications.

 

[tjvh]

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

When I'm ordering a Big Mac I should be thinking "how nice it is to see students making an extra buck", not "how did forty year old screw up their life so bad that they have to flip burgers to make a living"??? These types of jobs are stepping stones to better jobs, NOT career choices... So why should the consumer have to pay more for that Big Mac because someone lazily decided to make flipping burgers a career choice? Sorry, their lack of motivation just isn't my problem.

 

[zonly1]

we hable no english but are happy to have children and healthcare for free. thank you stupid AMERICANS.

 

[tjvh]

Only a numbskull would even attempt to live on what we call a minimum wage job. These jobs are meant for younger people to make a few extra bucks, not as career choices. The consumer should not have to subsidize (through higher prices) people who choose career paths of simpletons, either because they are too lazy or their job performance is so suspect that they cannot hold anything more than a menial job. Not my problem... Stay out of my wallet.

 

[FA_Q2]

And working their asses off.

And the ones who do that don't earn minimum wage for long. As an employer, I can tell you most minimum wage workers are not worth minimum wage. They are unreliable for showing up, the quality of their work, taking care of customers. If you pay them more, you get the same worker who's more expensive. The ones who care get raises. The rest are continual churn. Government doesn't get them higher wages, government gets them fired when the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you believe facts and data and things like that.

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
They can spend more money and obtain the exact same goods because the price of things raises as the cost of making them raises.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
? How so. Making 2 bucks more an hour does nothing to raise you out of poverty in any way shape or form. Gaining experience, work ethics and valuable marketable skills gets you out of poverty. These things are not going to get any easier or harder if minimum wage is altered. In fact, your current wage has nothing to do with any of them...3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
Again, see the answer to the first point. It does NOTHING in this regard whatsoever.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.
Sure, they can hire a few less AND raise the price of the end product getting you where?

Oh yes, fewer people working and those that are with the exact same purchasing power...

Those points speak to a complete ignorance in economics in general. You cannot fix a problem by simply demanding that people make more. That brings EVERYONE down and elevates nothing.

 

[FA_Q2]

There is no way to defend the George W. Bush administration allowing the national debt to increase by $4 trillion. Because there are people like the Tea Party minded citizens, it was the utter disgust with new entitlements and irresponsible spending that caused the GOP to lose their majority in 2006. It was the same disgust that caused enough of the conservative base to reject John McCain so that Barack Obama could be elected.

But at least the Bush administration did do some things right, and implemented an economic policy that was generating treasury revenues that were bringing the deficit down sharply in the last four years. Even in 2008 when the housing bubble burst, had it not been for the TARP bail out that was over and above budget, the deficit would have been the lowest of any of President Bush's eight years.

In contrast, President Obama has pushed for not a single policy that would reduce the deficit, but rather has generated trillion plus dollar deficits every year for his entire term and has implemented policies that will continue those as far as the eye can see.

The minimum wage is the least of our problems right now, but those who have no ambition and who think the world owes them a living of course want a higher minimum wage that is not tied to any form of productivity. And that is how we are in this mess and why somebody like Barack Obama is so wrong for freedom loving people. When you want other people to provide you with what you are not willing to work for to provide for yourself, you have trillion dollar deficits. And you bankrupt your country. A minimum wage unrelated to productivity only contributes to that because it is nothing other than redistribution of wealth.

In no country in the world has 'spreading the wealth' unrelated to productivity produced anything but a lower standard of living and/or resulted in spreading misery.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!
$5 trillion over 30 years means $166 billion in lost Federal tax revenue started 2002!
Courtesy of the Dot.com bust of 2001!
$2 trillion over 30 years courtesy of a minor event known as 9/11!! another $66 billion a year in lost federal tax revenue starting 2003!
$1 trillion in worst hurricane seasons in HISTORY generating $33 billion in LoST revenue starting in 2004..
Nearly $300 billion a year in LoST federal REVENUE has a little just a minor AFFECT ON FEDERAL REVENUES which at $2.5 trillion is about 1/4th being WRITTEN OFF!

NONE of that seems to be KNOWLEDGE to ANYONE!! WHY??
Nearly $300 billion a year from events that BUSH had NOTHING zero to do with but people keep that old cliched worn out "spending like a drunken sailor" ignorant comment about Bush!

ONCE and for all DID those events happen? YES!
Did they cost $8 trillion in market, businesses destroyed jobs lost, YES!
But has ANYONE recognized those EVENTS and what it meant to the BUDGET?? NO!!!

Honestly...

None of that really matters. We put the president there to address and fix problems, not to make excuses for them. Bush seen some of the fastest spending ever, only shown up by the current monstrosity that is in office. I refuse to give Bush the same pass that Obama seems to pine for on a daily bases - excuses for every ill that faces them. Bush was in office during those deficit years, he owns the outcome as Obama does in this term.

 

[barry1960]

And the ones who do that don't earn minimum wage for long. As an employer, I can tell you most minimum wage workers are not worth minimum wage. They are unreliable for showing up, the quality of their work, taking care of customers. If you pay them more, you get the same worker who's more expensive. The ones who care get raises. The rest are continual churn. Government doesn't get them higher wages, government gets them fired when the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you believe facts and data and things like that.

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
They can spend more money and obtain the exact same goods because the price of things raises as the cost of making them raises.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
? How so. Making 2 bucks more an hour does nothing to raise you out of poverty in any way shape or form. Gaining experience, work ethics and valuable marketable skills gets you out of poverty. These things are not going to get any easier or harder if minimum wage is altered. In fact, your current wage has nothing to do with any of them...3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
Again, see the answer to the first point. It does NOTHING in this regard whatsoever.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.
Sure, they can hire a few less AND raise the price of the end product getting you where?

Oh yes, fewer people working and those that are with the exact same purchasing power...

Those points speak to a complete ignorance in economics in general. You cannot fix a problem by simply demanding that people make more. That brings EVERYONE down and elevates nothing.

The response that a raise in minimum wage would lead to the exact same purchasing power shows an ignorance in economics. Such an analysis assumes that 100% of the cost of running a business is related to wages, but that is not true.

Say wages are 50% of running a business. The minimum wage is raised from $8 to $10 per gour. About 60% of those workers make minium wage, but their earnings constitute only 40% of the companies total wages. This represents a 25% increase in wages for the unskilled employees. However the cost of doing business increases only as follows:

(60% + (40% x 1.25)50% + 50% = 1.05 or a increase of 5% of production costs. Assuming that these costs are passed directly to the consumer, then the cost of goods increases 5%, but the earning power of the unskilled worker increases 20%. The net purchasing power increases 20% for those unskilled workers. The purchasing power of other workers goes down 5%.

Admittedly a simplistic model, but I hope you get the idea.

 

[Moonglow]

I pay my people more than min wage becaue the work is hard.

 

[barry1960]

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

No, you said you want people who are working at jobs that require no skill be paid more so they can move out of poverty. In other words, you want to pay more money for less skill.

And I know all about crap work, I've paid my dues you fucking twit. I've waited tables and wiped ass. I would have worked at McD's but apparently I didn't have what it took, lol. But I definitely applied. I am not disrespecting people who work at minimum age jobs.

I'm disrespecting the assholes who think that you should be able to buy a house when you have no skills and no qualifications.

No, I said I want to increase the minimum wage so I am advocating paying a higher wage to unskilled workers for the work they currently do. Therefore I am not advocating paying higher wages for less skill.

I did not advocate an increasing purchasing power to the point that even the most unskilled labor would be able to purchase homes. Perhaps you should renew your eye glass prescription so you may be better able to read. Then again, it could be a comprehension issue.

And you are correct, judging from your posts you probably do not have what it takes to work at McDonalds. Perhaps you can aspire to ass wiper, it seems like suitable work for you.

 

[koshergrl]

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

When I'm ordering a Big Mac I should be thinking "how nice it is to see students making an extra buck", not "how did forty year old screw up their life so bad that they have to flip burgers to make a living"??? These types of jobs are stepping stones to better jobs, NOT career choices... So why should the consumer have to pay more for that Big Mac because someone lazily decided to make flipping burgers a career choice? Sorry, their lack of motivation just isn't my problem.

I see adults flipping burgers at McD's...people who have made poor choices in their past, who are on their way back up the ladder of success at an older age than most, but who I'm glad to see showing the kids what it means to be grateful for a job, and people who have come here from other countries who have zero advanced working or communication skills, who are IMPROVING their marketability by working at McD's.

My son went to work at first Wendy's, then Burger King (he was poached, lol...) right out of school. He hated the work but he absolutely loved having a job, and he rocked it, until he got a better job.

There's nothing wrong with working at minimum wage jobs. It's called paying your dues, and most working class people have done it. I was a motel maid, and a waitress, and a dishwasher. I would absolutely do those things again if I needed a job. I would apply for other things too, but you do what you have to do. I don't think I should be paid $3000 a month and bennies to wash dishes...it's not worth that much. Most restaurant owners wouldn't mind washing dishes themselves if they have to.

 

[GHook93]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.

After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.

Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.

If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

I am not sure either, but it has to be a combo of section 8 and food stamps!

Part of the problem nowadays was Frank, Dodds and Clinton's push to get everyone in a house. What happened was it created an artifical seller's market where home values doubled in years not decades (like the norm). Property values (meaning mortgage costs) went through the roof, therefore, rent went through the roof.

Then the public sector Unions ROB and STEAL from the State's in the form of no-contribution health insurance and HIGHWAY ROBBERY PENSIONS! The effect were higher property, sales, gas, utility and income taxes. Property taxes raised the cost property aka mortgage and rent. Sales, gas, income and utility taxes raised the cost of living and cost of doing business which lead to inflation.

It's nutz!

 

[Foxfyre]

There is no way to defend the George W. Bush administration allowing the national debt to increase by $4 trillion. Because there are people like the Tea Party minded citizens, it was the utter disgust with new entitlements and irresponsible spending that caused the GOP to lose their majority in 2006. It was the same disgust that caused enough of the conservative base to reject John McCain so that Barack Obama could be elected.

But at least the Bush administration did do some things right, and implemented an economic policy that was generating treasury revenues that were bringing the deficit down sharply in the last four years. Even in 2008 when the housing bubble burst, had it not been for the TARP bail out that was over and above budget, the deficit would have been the lowest of any of President Bush's eight years.

In contrast, President Obama has pushed for not a single policy that would reduce the deficit, but rather has generated trillion plus dollar deficits every year for his entire term and has implemented policies that will continue those as far as the eye can see.

The minimum wage is the least of our problems right now, but those who have no ambition and who think the world owes them a living of course want a higher minimum wage that is not tied to any form of productivity. And that is how we are in this mess and why somebody like Barack Obama is so wrong for freedom loving people. When you want other people to provide you with what you are not willing to work for to provide for yourself, you have trillion dollar deficits. And you bankrupt your country. A minimum wage unrelated to productivity only contributes to that because it is nothing other than redistribution of wealth.

In no country in the world has 'spreading the wealth' unrelated to productivity produced anything but a lower standard of living and/or resulted in spreading misery.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!
$5 trillion over 30 years means $166 billion in lost Federal tax revenue started 2002!
Courtesy of the Dot.com bust of 2001!
$2 trillion over 30 years courtesy of a minor event known as 9/11!! another $66 billion a year in lost federal tax revenue starting 2003!
$1 trillion in worst hurricane seasons in HISTORY generating $33 billion in LoST revenue starting in 2004..
Nearly $300 billion a year in LoST federal REVENUE has a little just a minor AFFECT ON FEDERAL REVENUES which at $2.5 trillion is about 1/4th being WRITTEN OFF!

NONE of that seems to be KNOWLEDGE to ANYONE!! WHY??
Nearly $300 billion a year from events that BUSH had NOTHING zero to do with but people keep that old cliched worn out "spending like a drunken sailor" ignorant comment about Bush!

ONCE and for all DID those events happen? YES!
Did they cost $8 trillion in market, businesses destroyed jobs lost, YES!
But has ANYONE recognized those EVENTS and what it meant to the BUDGET?? NO!!!

I won't comment on this line by line except to say let's dont deflect the thread to yet another George Bush thread, pro or con. But whatever one thinks of George W. Bush or Barack H. Obama, spending on non essential stuff that exceeds treasury revenues is irresponsible, and budgets or government economic policy that is unrelated to productivity is also irreponsible. I will never defend that no matter who is in the White House.

Nevertheless, despite the war spending, the deficit was coming sharply down in the last years of the Bush administration, and, if the war spending was taken out of the equation, the budget would likely have been balanced. We haven't even had a budget during most of the Obama administration because the Senate refuses to pass one.

So back to the minimum wage.

 

[Foxfyre]

An increase in minimum wage unrelated to productivity is inflationary and counterproductive to putting more people to work. McJobs have been a great source of income for teenagers and also senior citizens and other part timers who don't need to earn a lot but need to supplement their incomes a bit. Raising the minimum wage at McDonalds increases the cost of the product that is either passed along to the customer or reduces the profit to the business owner. But most of us are only willing to pay so much for a Big Mac..

When the costs of doing business pushes the cost of the product past what the market will bear, the process collapses. Less taxes paid into the national treasury. Fewer jobs for entry level workers. And less product choices for people to buy and higher prices for what there is to buy.

An increase in the minimum wage does not just affect the immediate cost of the Big Mac due to increased wages at McDonalds. It also increases the cost of many ingredients that go into the Big Mac, as well as pushing up the owner's cost for SUTA, FUTA, FICA and, in many businesses, business insurance.

 

[thanatos144]

Hey you guys want to employ more with a better wage????????????????Get rid of unions and have honest to god competition....Freedom is the answer! As we have seen the last 3 years socialism and fascism doesn't work.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
They can spend more money and obtain the exact same goods because the price of things raises as the cost of making them raises.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
? How so. Making 2 bucks more an hour does nothing to raise you out of poverty in any way shape or form. Gaining experience, work ethics and valuable marketable skills gets you out of poverty. These things are not going to get any easier or harder if minimum wage is altered. In fact, your current wage has nothing to do with any of them...3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
Again, see the answer to the first point. It does NOTHING in this regard whatsoever.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.
Sure, they can hire a few less AND raise the price of the end product getting you where?

Oh yes, fewer people working and those that are with the exact same purchasing power...

Those points speak to a complete ignorance in economics in general. You cannot fix a problem by simply demanding that people make more. That brings EVERYONE down and elevates nothing.

The response that a raise in minimum wage would lead to the exact same purchasing power shows an ignorance in economics. Such an analysis assumes that 100% of the cost of running a business is related to wages, but that is not true.

Say wages are 50% of running a business. The minimum wage is raised from $8 to $10 per gour. About 60% of those workers make minium wage, but their earnings constitute only 40% of the companies total wages. This represents a 25% increase in wages for the unskilled employees. However the cost of doing business increases only as follows:

(60% + (40% x 1.25)50% + 50% = 1.05 or a increase of 5% of production costs. Assuming that these costs are passed directly to the consumer, then the cost of goods increases 5%, but the earning power of the unskilled worker increases 20%. The net purchasing power increases 20% for those unskilled workers. The purchasing power of other workers goes down 5%.

Admittedly a simplistic model, but I hope you get the idea.

You see it as the opposite. However what you see does not apply to business in real world terms.
The way to get out of min wage is to improve one's skill set, educate one's self and perform tasks in an exemplary fashion.
Wages are not a gift. Employment is not en entitlement.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I pay my people more than min wage becaue the work is hard.

That is your CHOICE. You can pay higher wages but only to a level where your business can turn a profit. If labor becomes too expensive, you can lay off workers kepping only the best performers, raise your prices or operate at a loss.
It should remain a CHOICE. Not a mandate from government.