How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Cecilie1200]

The response that a raise in minimum wage would lead to the exact same purchasing power shows an ignorance in economics. Such an analysis assumes that 100% of the cost of running a business is related to wages, but that is not true.

Say wages are 50% of running a business. The minimum wage is raised from $8 to $10 per gour. About 60% of those workers make minium wage, but their earnings constitute only 40% of the companies total wages. This represents a 25% increase in wages for the unskilled employees. However the cost of doing business increases only as follows:

(60% + (40% x 1.25)50% + 50% = 1.05 or a increase of 5% of production costs. Assuming that these costs are passed directly to the consumer, then the cost of goods increases 5%, but the earning power of the unskilled worker increases 20%. The net purchasing power increases 20% for those unskilled workers. The purchasing power of other workers goes down 5%.

Admittedly a simplistic model, but I hope you get the idea.

You see it as the opposite. However what you see does not apply to business in real world terms.
The way to get out of min wage is to improve one's skill set, educate one's self and perform tasks in an exemplary fashion.
Wages are not a gift. Employment is not en entitlement.

I was merely addressing your statement that raising the minimum wage would not increase the purchasing power of those who make minimum wage. Your resonse did not address such so my guess it the mathematics is beyond you even though it is of middle school level. That's OK.

As far as your most recent assertions, I agree that the best way to get out of minimum wage is to improve one's skill set. Of course wages are not a gift. The minimum wage earners I observe work hard for their money, so one could not categorize such as a gift. If you want an example of wages as a gift, just review the compensation of CEOs and other highly placed executives at firms that lost money.

Spoken like someone who's never been more than a corporate janitor in his whole life. "Ahh, those suits, all they ever do for their money is go out for three-martini lunches!" Do you even know what a CEO does, chucklehead?

 

[newpolitics]

Actually, many conservatives do, but they are not the one screaming about wealth redistribution, are they? How can you people sit there wallowing in wealth while crying about wealth? Conservatives say straight up - I should get to keep what I earn and do with it as I see fit, whether that is giving to charity or buying myself toys from Apple.

I do admire the rich - I don't admire the greedy liberal asshole who hoards their own wealth while screaming about the "wealth disparity" and the "evil rich" people. You people don't even see how sick, twisted, and despicable your hypocrisy is. Barack Obama goes around the nation talking about Socialism, "being your brother's keeper", and making a "shared sacrifice". Yet he is a multi-multi-millionaire with an aunt who is not only in this country illegaly, but is also living off of welfare completley (housing, food, etc.). How does this sick fuck talk about each of us helping strangers, when this sick fuck has millions and won't help his own aunt! Why doesn't he take her off government to save the tax payers and pay for her way with his millions? Because he is a hypocrite liberal!

Bottom line, you know damn well I'm right, you know I nailed it, which is why you have no defense other than to say "ad hominem" and then point out that conservatives have iPhones, as if that were relevant to the glaring example I made about liberal hypocrisy, when it is conservatives that promote and support being able to keep what you earn.

If wealth distribution is a problem, then who cares who is saying it. It's only a matter of who is willing to recognize it. Those who do, are called liberals and socialists. It is completely absurd. How do you know I am wallowing in wealth? I don't have any money at all. The conservative notion of getting what you earn is not a virtue, so stop talking about it like it is. it is an opinion. You people don't know how sick and twisted your hypocrisy is. You talk about fiscal conservatism when Bush spent more than most presidents in history. You complain about Barack but he has spent far less than Bush. You twist facts to conform to your own conservative narrative, and ignore reality to push through your own bias. it's fucking delusional. Everyone sees it but you, and when people try and tell you, you point the finger to avoid introspection. it's childish.

I'm not even sure what you're argument is. You dance all around, spitting vitriolic comments towards liberals in general, which is completely absurd. I don't pretend to think all conservatives are the same, or as bad as others. Neocons are fucking morons, but I know there are genuinely good people that are conservatives. It just so happens that the state of the conservative party today is completely fucked, being controlled by private interests that want to control us, and then it is conservatives that stick up for them. The visual is scary.

It is annoying to listen to vitriolic conservatives talk about liberals as if they are any better. You are not. You are definitely worse, in that you are delusional to the reality plaguing this country. That you can actually sit there and blame liberals is so utterly laughable, and demonstrates your own delusional thinking. You didn't hit any nails on the head. You dropped the hammer.

See, the problem is, you guys live a lie. In 8 years in office, George Bush added $4 trillion to the debt. In only 3 years, Barack Obama has added $6 trillion. That is a fact that can be independently verified. You have zero facts correct, so no wonder you look so stupid when you post.

History has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that liberal belief in redistribution of wealth is a spectacular failure. It has a 100% failure rate world wide and yet here you dummies sit calling for something proven to fail.

Finally, to answer your question about liberal wealth - I know on some level what you have because here you sit behind an expensive computer connected to expensive Internet connection crying about the less fortunate. If you gave a damn about any of those people, you would be helping them instead of spending money on frivolous items such as these. It clearly illustrates what a selfish, greedy, hypocrite you are (just like every liberal I know). Stop demanding Communism, get off your lazy ass, and help people in need yourself.

You're just pissed I expose the greedy hypocrite liberal for what they really are...

Do you consider context at all when citing deficit numbers? It would seem somewhat appropriate to understand the economic circumstances that Obama found himself him when he entered office. He spent money to stop a supposed disaster, and now it is paying off, evidenced by the comeback of GM, and he prevented the absolute implosion of the US and subsequently, the world economy, as a result. Bush spent money on wars we didn't need and spent more money than most presidents recent to him. It is his party's neoconservative agenda, as spearheaded by the likes of Karl Rove, Dick, Cheney, and Alan Greenspan, that bulldozed the path to allow the economic collapse to materialize when it did and as severe as it did, which was more than thirty years in the making. It's truly hilarious to me that you cite numbers as you did, without considering context. I can't wait to anticipate what undoubtedly will be a textbook conservative response, as this discussion has taken place ad infinitum in the past, both here and the world over.

You are engaging in a slippery slope argument, asserting that because communism failed, all liberal policies will necessarily fail. Well, all fascist dictatorships necessarily are regimes that produce pain and suffering, and eventually succumb to revolution and fail, especially in todays climate of free-flowing information due to the internet, with the most poignant example being the Arab Spring . So, you can not claim superiority for your particular ideology by citing fault in the extreme end of the opposing ideology. It's absurd, hence why it is a logical fallacy.

You talk about liberal wealth and the fact that I have a computer... what machine are you typing on again? How can you blast me for having a computer, when you are doing the same. You are being absurd! Why should I forego a computer, so that I can be perceived as consistent by conservatives? HA! Fat chance. I could care less what you think. Conservatives aren't exactly shining examples of consistency. However, for the sake of argument, If you really wanted me to defend this, I could easily say that the money I spent on this computer pales in comparison to the value that the information I have gotten from owning a computer has granted me, which has made me a far more educated person, being connected to the internet, therefore making me more understanding of realities around me, and in a better position to make a more effective effort to make things better for anybody in the long run.

 

[kaz]

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You're obviously not an employer because you're reading the Democratic marketing literature and you have no idea how reality really works. Most minimum wage workers aren't worth minimum wage, they are unreliable and the only thing they work hard at is avoiding work. Paying them more for for that is clueless and will just lead to higher unemployment. As BTW is exactly what happens every time the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you are about facts and logic and that sort of nonsense.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You're obviously not an employer because you're reading the Democratic marketing literature and you have no idea how reality really works. Most minimum wage workers aren't worth minimum wage, they are unreliable and the only thing they work hard at is avoiding work. Paying them more for for that is clueless and will just lead to higher unemployment. As BTW is exactly what happens every time the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you are about facts and logic and that sort of nonsense.

Most minimum wage jobs fall into one of two categories:

1. An entry level wage that pays a person to train and learn how to be productive so that they are able to produce a profit for the employer, or. . . .

2. A wage to do simple tasks that anybody can do with no training or education at all. (Construction clean up crews fall into this category for instance. The carpenters or painters or electricians or plumbers could do such tasks and do if they have no 'helpers', but the master craftsmen can be more productive if they don't have to also do the work that anybody with no skills or education can do.)

Make the wage too high to afford to train people, and businesses become much more reluctant to hire unskilled people and train them so more people are locked out of the job market. Make the wage too high and the low end jobs for unskilled construction workers go away for the most part.

 

[zeke]

I have gotten from owning a computer has granted me, which has made me a far more educated person, being connected to the internet, therefore making me more understanding of realities around me, and in a better position to make a more effective effort to make things better for anybody in the long run.

Dam, and here I thought it was to surf the 'Net for free porn and piss off rethugs. Holy Cow.

 

[P@triot]

I see the exact opposite. Those who earn minimum wage lack the skills. experience or opportunity to compete for higher earning jobs. The jobs they do are usually involve hard work, no benefits and little prestige. The jobs that are for minimum wage involve hard work and close supervision to make sure they continuously work hard.

I believe that minimum wage should be increased for the following reasons:

1) A raise for minimum earners would allow them to spend more money.
2) A raise in minimum wage may allow some to escape poverty.
3) A raise in minimum wage will decrease the gap between rich and poor in this country.
4) For an employer, it is a cost-benefit analysis as to whether an employee is needed. While raising the minimum wage modestly may cause employers not to hire some, employers will still need to hire employees.

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You truly don't understand economics or business. Those people are getting paid exactly what they are worth. If they weren't, they wouldn't work that job. Why do you think a CEO doesn't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. Why do you think engineers don't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. The owners/board realize they have to pay a CEO six or seven figures - it's not that they want to pay that much.

The market will bear exactly what you are worth. It truly is that simple, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

 

[zeke]

You may think you can get good workers for construction clean up by paying minimum wage. But you can't. At least not American labor. To hard of work for that money is the general complaint.

Now if you take a Mexican and put him on a clean up crew, he will work his ass off. Know why?
Cause to him, our minimum wage is a good living wage for him. Compared to where he came from.

See the difference? And why the imported labor will out work the American labor at the same wage.
Different perspective.

That and the fact that the Mexican labor crew probably shares all living expenses while working here. And sends a lot of their money home to support families there.

That helps them live here, make money and support a family. An American trying to do all that on a minimum wage job. Aint gonna happen.

 

[Cowman]

Why on earth pay people who lack skills more to do less???

That's asinine. There's no arguing with pure lunacy, why bother? People escape poverty by obtaining skills and increasing their value in the work place THAT'S how you escape poverty. You don't escape poverty by working at McDonald's. You get paid shit to obtain skills that allow you to compete for higher paying jobs.

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You truly don't understand economics or business. Those people are getting paid exactly what they are worth. If they weren't, they wouldn't work that job. Why do you think a CEO doesn't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. Why do you think engineers don't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. The owners/board realize they have to pay a CEO six or seven figures - it's not that they want to pay that much.

The market will bear exactly what you are worth. It truly is that simple, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Such a retarded mentality that absolutely overlooks many variables regarding why an employer pays what they do.

The way conservatives want it, is that American workers become price competitive with countries like china. Smash that minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth. 32 cents an hour.

The belief(that you have and trumpet) that CEO's have developed a worth which has exponentially grown over the years, is bullshit.

 

[NBarnes12]

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You truly don't understand economics or business. Those people are getting paid exactly what they are worth. If they weren't, they wouldn't work that job. Why do you think a CEO doesn't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. Why do you think engineers don't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. The owners/board realize they have to pay a CEO six or seven figures - it's not that they want to pay that much.

The market will bear exactly what you are worth. It truly is that simple, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Such a retarded mentality that absolutely overlooks many variables regarding why an employer pays what they do.

The way conservatives want it, is that American workers become price competitive with countries like china. Smash that minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth. 32 cents an hour.

The belief(that you have and trumpet) that CEO's have developed a worth which has exponentially grown over the years, is bullshit.

HAHAHAAHAHA, wow. This is exactly what the other side believes and we have start exposing them. You completely ignored the facts the other poster stated, and completely talked out of your butt. Stop talking generalities.

 

[NBarnes12]

we have to start exposing them*. Sorry, typo.

 

[Foxfyre]

It really comes down to whether you think people should be happy pay you to work just because you're you, and there should be no value attached to your labor just because you are you.

Those of us who know that our labor, skill set, know how, work ethic, experience, and ability are commodities to sell, preferably to the highest bidder, see it quite differently.

When I hire you at $10/hour, I need for you to produce the $10/hour I pay you PLUS my costs to have you on the payroll PLUS a reasonable profit for me. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason for me to hire you in the first place.

 

[GHook93]

I am not arguing to pay people more to do less. I am arguing to pay minimum wage earners more to do the work there are currently doing. Someone who works at McDonalds is working hard, probably harder than yourself, at a job that most people would not wish to do. They do so because they lack skills, but it is still honorable work. Think about that next time you order a big mac.

You truly don't understand economics or business. Those people are getting paid exactly what they are worth. If they weren't, they wouldn't work that job. Why do you think a CEO doesn't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. Why do you think engineers don't get paid minimum wage? Because they won't do that job for that price. The owners/board realize they have to pay a CEO six or seven figures - it's not that they want to pay that much.

The market will bear exactly what you are worth. It truly is that simple, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Such a retarded mentality that absolutely overlooks many variables regarding why an employer pays what they do.

The way conservatives want it, is that American workers become price competitive with countries like china. Smash that minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth. 32 cents an hour.

The belief(that you have and trumpet) that CEO's have developed a worth which has exponentially grown over the years, is bullshit.

I love when a liberal talks about the minimum wage and losing to China. First we aren't losing minimum wage service jobs to China, we are losing HIGHER than the minimum wage assembly and manufacturing jobs to China. The minimum wage has NO EFFECT on the jobs we are losing to China. HOWEVER, it has been proven that rising shipping costs, YES rising wages in China, US automation and efficiency, actually makes it cost less in the US than to make it in China and ship it here.

Manufacturing: The end of cheap China | The Economist

The jobs we are losing to India that are MOST DAMAGING are the R & D jobs! The reason we are losing them to India is two fold: (1) They are producing more scientist and engineers there (here we let liberals control our schools, and allow pension funds and free healthcare benefits take the money that should go to teaching our kids) and (2) Lower wages. The first has the bigger effect, since wages in India are SHOOTING UP. But we could and still do compete with them for R & D.


Bottomline: The jobs we are losing to India and China are not the minimum wage service jobs, it's the higher than minimum wage manufacturing and R & D jobs.

You want both to come back:
(1) Start by taking on the Unions!
(2) Start by curbing legislation. Smart simple legislation is 10 fold better than over-burden long complex legislation needs to go. The constitution, considered the best piece of legislation in world history, was 22-25 pages! Easily readable in one sitting. GO THAT ROUTE!
(3) Blow up the EPA and START OVER!
(4) Drill Baby Drill. Cheap energy makes for cheaper manufacturing costs.
(5) Take on China's currency manipulation. If it means we fight the trade war, then so be it.
(6) Redo the tax code. Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan was BRILLIANT! If you don't like that, then at least find a way to lower the corporate tax. I personally like the fair tax, but 9-9-9 will do.
(7) End Federal and State Pension plans! They bankrupt the States and place undue burden on the Fed. The money could and should be used in better places. For example 60% of some of the HIGHEST property taxes in the country in Cook County IL goes to the unfunded pension payouts to retired teachers. Imagine if even half of that 60% went to schools, lowering teacher to student ratios and school programs, how much better our schools would be.
(8) End teacher tenure and government worker job protection. Make them at will like their private sector counter-parts.
(9) FIGHT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!! If you want minimum wage to rise, make it so the employers actually have to make the jobs attractive to Americans! Believe it or not, but most illegals work in jobs AMERICANS would work. Only 3% work in agriculture and only 33% work in services! 64% work in jobs AMERICANS want (if you want to say service industry is undesirable).

Study counters beliefs about illegal immigrants (Only 3 percent work in agriculture)
Only 3 percent of the undocumented immigrants work in agriculture. The greatest numbers, 33 percent, work in the service industry.

The rest work in construction, production, installation and repair, sales and administration, transportation and material moving, and management and business.

(10) Adopt the Chilean Style Private Social Security Program. It's being adopted throughout the world. Time we take a look at it (another Herman Cain master-piece idea)!

(11) Here is were I divert from most conservatives - Healthcare. Adopt one of the three:
(A) Healthcare Voucher for all US citizens to buy basic private health insurance.
(B) Kerry Plan: Have a $10K-$20K US government deductible, with private insurance buy-down. Basically the government covers everyone for catrophic coverage!
(C) Single Payor: Least attractive in my opinion.

The employer based insurance has major flaws and from a business start put it put a HUGE cost onto our corps, which is a disadvantage in the global marketplace!

 

[Cowman]

I love when a liberal talks about the minimum wage and losing to China. First we aren't losing minimum wage service jobs to China, we are losing HIGHER than the minimum wage assembly and manufacturing jobs to China. The minimum wage has NO EFFECT on the jobs we are losing to China. HOWEVER, it has been proven that rising shipping costs, YES rising wages in China, US automation and efficiency, actually makes it cost less in the US than to make it in China and ship it here.

That's not what I said or was even implying retard. I'm saying that conservatives want American businesses to be able to hire at a wage far less than minimum wage, something that is more in line with what China or those other sweat shop countries hire for. No respect for the American worker. Had nothing to do with jobs being shipped overseas.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Supply and demand works in both directions.

A $1.00 bottle of water might be worth $10 is there's only one bottle, ten people, and a heat wave.

A low-skilled worker is low-paid because there are so many people who can do the simple tasks that the low-skilled worker does. It is the responsibility of the low-skilled worker to do what it takes to improve their skills to make their value more scarce in the job market. Yes, it's difficult, yes, it takes discipline and sacrifice.

That's the discipline and sacrifice it took for a higher-skilled worker to increase their skills, and that's why they can demand more pay. We penalize a higher-skilled worker when we artificially dilute their value in the job marketplace by artificially increasing the pay of a low-skilled worker.

"Fairness" is in the eye of the beholder.

.

 

[kaz]

You're obviously not an employer because you're reading the Democratic marketing literature and you have no idea how reality really works. Most minimum wage workers aren't worth minimum wage, they are unreliable and the only thing they work hard at is avoiding work. Paying them more for for that is clueless and will just lead to higher unemployment. As BTW is exactly what happens every time the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you are about facts and logic and that sort of nonsense.

Most minimum wage jobs fall into one of two categories:

1. An entry level wage that pays a person to train and learn how to be productive so that they are able to produce a profit for the employer, or. . . .

2. A wage to do simple tasks that anybody can do with no training or education at all. (Construction clean up crews fall into this category for instance. The carpenters or painters or electricians or plumbers could do such tasks and do if they have no 'helpers', but the master craftsmen can be more productive if they don't have to also do the work that anybody with no skills or education can do.)

Make the wage too high to afford to train people, and businesses become much more reluctant to hire unskilled people and train them so more people are locked out of the job market. Make the wage too high and the low end jobs for unskilled construction workers go away for the most part.

Yes, and if you get someone who is reliable and works hard at either they don't make minimum wage for long. Trust me, when someone even starts out looking like a keeper we start raising their wages to make them happy right away. Which is another reason that most minimum wagers suck, the ones who stay there for more than a brief time are only the ones who suck.

Isn't it funny how the Democrats, the party of diversity, think that every worker is identical? None are better or worse than the others it's just which ones get lucky or unlucky getting a good employer or a greedy one?

Frankly, any worker who goes to their job just caring will figure out a way to make more than minimum wage very quickly.

 

[kaz]

That's not what I said or was even implying retard. I'm saying that conservatives want American businesses to be able to hire at a wage far less than minimum wage

You're wrong on 3 points.

1) You're wrong, you are retarded

2) Employers (I'm an employer), want to pay workers MORE than minimum wage. However, we want them to be WORTH more than minimum wage. You want us to pay workers who don't give a crap more than they are worth. We are fine with the wages, we just want them to be worth it.

With minimum wages, the ones who are not worth it end up unemployed. When you raise minimum wage more, more workers aren't worth it and we fire them to. We find ways to automate or do things differently. We do not pay people what they are not worth. Or all our employees will end up unemployed.

Every time I fire a useless employee, no one is happier then the other employees who stop having to cover for their useless, lazy asses. That ... is reality...

3) You are still retarded, you still don't get it do you?

 

[kaz]

A low-skilled worker is low-paid because there are so many people who can do the simple tasks that the low-skilled worker does

Honestly in my experience most low wage workers are low wage because they don't care. They don't care about their employer, their customers or themselves. They make the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. It's very frustrating. And paying them more does not make them care more. They are their own worst enemies.

 

[Foxfyre]

You're obviously not an employer because you're reading the Democratic marketing literature and you have no idea how reality really works. Most minimum wage workers aren't worth minimum wage, they are unreliable and the only thing they work hard at is avoiding work. Paying them more for for that is clueless and will just lead to higher unemployment. As BTW is exactly what happens every time the minimum wage goes up. But that's only if you are about facts and logic and that sort of nonsense.

Most minimum wage jobs fall into one of two categories:

1. An entry level wage that pays a person to train and learn how to be productive so that they are able to produce a profit for the employer, or. . . .

2. A wage to do simple tasks that anybody can do with no training or education at all. (Construction clean up crews fall into this category for instance. The carpenters or painters or electricians or plumbers could do such tasks and do if they have no 'helpers', but the master craftsmen can be more productive if they don't have to also do the work that anybody with no skills or education can do.)

Make the wage too high to afford to train people, and businesses become much more reluctant to hire unskilled people and train them so more people are locked out of the job market. Make the wage too high and the low end jobs for unskilled construction workers go away for the most part.

Yes, and if you get someone who is reliable and works hard at either they don't make minimum wage for long. Trust me, when someone even starts out looking like a keeper we start raising their wages to make them happy right away. Which is another reason that most minimum wagers suck, the ones who stay there for more than a brief time are only the ones who suck.

Isn't it funny how the Democrats, the party of diversity, think that every worker is identical? None are better or worse than the others it's just which ones get lucky or unlucky getting a good employer or a greedy one?

Frankly, any worker who goes to their job just caring will figure out a way to make more than minimum wage very quickly.

Absolutely. When the minimum wage employee isn't producing at least the minimum wage plus a reasonable profit for me within a reasonable amount of time, I suggest that employee will be happier working someplace else. But the minimum wage employee who learns the job and does it well plus gives some extra effort to make himself or herself even more valuable, that person isn't going to stay at minimum wage. I'm going to pay as much as it takes to keep him/her very happy to stay with me, provided he or she is earning that wage plus a reasonable profit for me.

 

[Samson]

I'm saying that conservatives want American businesses to be able to hire at a wage far less than minimum wage, something that is more in line with what China or those other sweat shop countries hire for. No respect for the American worker. Had nothing to do with jobs being shipped overseas.

So, you pay people based on how much you respect them.

Wouldn't paying them the minimum wage demonstrate you respect them the least?

Lemme ask you: Do you believe in self-respect? Since you've tied a wage to respect, wouldn't someone who has higher self respect choose work that pays a higher wage?

 

[Mac1958]

A low-skilled worker is low-paid because there are so many people who can do the simple tasks that the low-skilled worker does

Honestly in my experience most low wage workers are low wage because they don't care. They don't care about their employer, their customers or themselves. They make the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. It's very frustrating. And paying them more does not make them care more. They are their own worst enemies.

Holy crap, I couldn't agree more. And they're always the victim, always.

They've evidently been raised to believe that the world owes them something, and that they automatically deserve more than the next guy.

I decided a few years back never to allow myself to be in a position where I have to hire and manage people again. Those folks are the primary reason. There are many people who are lucky there is a minimum wage, only because they are worth far less.

Or, more accurately, they CHOOSE to be worth far less.

.