How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Inevitable]

Dictionaries don't define words...

What a fucking moron.

They don't.

Don't be mad because your argument is stupid and wrong. Just learn from your stupidity and try not to look foolish in the future.

 

[Inevitable]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

No, not necessarily. Sorry dude.

 

[Muslim75]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

I speak of the taditional knowledge in Islam.

It is obvious that there is more to life than science. There is something beyond science. You may have a dream and later sees it happening in real life. Those who read the horoscopes frequently know very well that there is more than what we see, even though horoscopes mix one truth with 1000 lies. What science came up with, that man is the result of evolution of apes is a clear proof that there is more to life than science.

The most direct proofs of the existence of an Almighty God are the pathways in the sky above our heads, the rain coming down from the sky and the constellations of the Zodiac. The stars are symmetrical in the sky, if you pay attention and notice the shapes and patterns. Just as you would know from footprints that there is a walker, you know from His act that the Almighty God exists, Doer of all that happens.

One may do some wondrous things without his religion being true. He may be helped by some beings we do not see and who are not necessarily good, and may be evil. It is actually exactly that.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

though they admittedly have to presume non-carbon based life forms to get around its necessity.......

So we can agree your goofy comment was pointless and a waste of time.

no merely that you can't come up with an astrophysicist that doesn't acknowledge our universe is finely tuned and that our part of it is finely tuned for the carbon based life that exists on it......that we can agree on.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

So you believe a fairytale without proof but doubt the high probability that life is not rare in the universe?

upon what do you base this "probability"?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Science evaluates many phenomenon which are not observable.

no, that would be the realm of science fiction......

 

[sealybobo]

So you believe a fairytale without proof but doubt the high probability that life is not rare in the universe?

upon what do you base this "probability"?......

The billions of other suns and planets in our universe

 

[PostmodernProph]

So you believe a fairytale without proof but doubt the high probability that life is not rare in the universe?

upon what do you base this "probability"?......

The billions of other suns and planets in our universe

and "probably" there is no life at all on almost all of them.......

 

[edthecynic]

Here let's see if I can break it down:

Astral projection experiences - hallucination of the mind
Near-death experiences - hallucination of the mind
Transcendental meditation - just smoke weed. It's easier.
ESP and telepathy - as you put it... "hooey"
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences - also "hooey"
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon - more hooey
Spells, curses and black magic - a buttload of hooey
Edgar Cayce - see "Miss Cleo"
Nostradamus - hooey
Prophecy in general - hooey

Thanks, Corky... now can we hear from those who still have living brain cells?

Well that lets you out, since all you have is an ad hominem.

 

[edthecynic]

Quantum Physics predicts there are as many as 11 dimensions in our universe.

PHYSICAL dimensions!

 

[edthecynic]

Seems like there are no angels devils ghosts or witches. Nothing that can't or hasn't been outside of our physical world.

"...one must therefore imagine scenarios in which these extra dimensions would not be observed in experiments." ~Quantum Physics

- Barton Zwiebach
Why didn't you credit the real author?

 

[edthecynic]

How does he hide? Scientifically. How did he turn 5 loaves and 3 fish into a feast for 5000.

Well, that is probably the only true miracle! Jesus miraculously got people to SHARE.

Back then people did not have cars or rapid transit, so invariably they carried dried bread, fish, etc. slack their hunger during their travels to a town, neighbor, etc and back. By starting the sharing with his food, Jesus coaxed others to share theirs and thus turned hungry hoarders into satiated sharers with plenty left over. Only hoarders claim the miracle was a supernatural creating bread and fish from nothing.

 

[sealybobo]

So you believe a fairytale without proof but doubt the high probability that life is not rare in the universe?

upon what do you base this "probability"?......

The billions of other suns and planets in our universe

and "probably" there is no life at all on almost all of them.......

Why? The majority of scientists who specialize in this say you are wrong. Based on facts. Don't tell me that the majority of priests agree with you because their studying an out dated text book.

 

[Hollie]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

though they admittedly have to presume non-carbon based life forms to get around its necessity.......

So we can agree your goofy comment was pointless and a waste of time.

no merely that you can't come up with an astrophysicist that doesn't acknowledge our universe is finely tuned and that our part of it is finely tuned for the carbon based life that exists on it......that we can agree on.......

How pointless, as usual. Bossy made a completely bogus argument wherein he claimed all astrophysicists agree the universe is finely tuned. He failed to support that argument just as you have failed to support it.

 

[Hollie]

Science evaluates many phenomenon which are not observable.

no, that would be the realm of science fiction......

Actually, that would be the realm of science.

You're at a disadvantage because your madrassah has left you without a science vocabulary.

 

[Boss]

Quantum Physics predicts there are as many as 11 dimensions in our universe.

PHYSICAL dimensions!

Uhm... not really. We can SAY they are "physical dimensions" because they relate to physical sciences, but since these extra dimensions have not been confirmed or observed, we can't define them as anything, physical or not.

But you do make an interesting point... Let's imagine something for a moment... Let's say that somewhere in the future, science and physics confirms some cosmic evidence for spiritual nature and energy... the age old secret is revealed, God is proven scientifically to exist as a form of spiritual energy supported by physics. Is God still a spiritual entity or is God now a physical entity? Would God change or would our perspective of God change?

 

[Boss]

How pointless, as usual. Bossy made a completely bogus argument wherein he claimed all astrophysicists agree the universe is finely tuned. He failed to support that argument just as you have failed to support it.

Speed of Light
Gravitational Constant
Planck's Constant
Planck Mass-Energy
Mass of Electron, Proton, Neutron
Mass of Up, Down, Strange Quark
Ratio of Electron to Proton Mass
Gravitational Coupling Constant
Cosmological Constant
Hubble Constant
Higgs Vacuum Expectation Value

The above values are precise and constant. If ANY of these values were off by just a hair, there could be no interacting life of any kind, anywhere. There would be no universe as we know it. It IS finely tuned, there is no question it is finely tuned, and anyone who doesn't believe this is a science-illiterate moron.

 

[sealybobo]

Quantum Physics predicts there are as many as 11 dimensions in our universe.

PHYSICAL dimensions!

Uhm... not really. We can SAY they are "physical dimensions" because they relate to physical sciences, but since these extra dimensions have not been confirmed or observed, we can't define them as anything, physical or not.

But you do make an interesting point... Let's imagine something for a moment... Let's say that somewhere in the future, science and physics confirms some cosmic evidence for spiritual nature and energy... the age old secret is revealed, God is proven scientifically to exist as a form of spiritual energy supported by physics. Is God still a spiritual entity or is God now a physical entity? Would God change or would our perspective of God change?

Here is the full quote you didn't get the other day when I paraphrased on my smart phone:

“Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.” - Douglas Adams

 

[sealybobo]

Complexity/Order does not prove god exists. The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defectsconsistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organisation and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness,even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

 

[BreezeWood]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

.

bossy: ... and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

which part, the Garden or the 99.9% universe admired by the sudo-spiritualist ?

.

Why are you quoting Stenger and Adams and attributing it to me?

.

b: Why are you quoting Stenger and Adams and attributing it to me?

- you are the one attributing a "finely tuned universe" to Spirituality, el pseudo ...


not one blade of grass from 200 million years ago to the present or for all eternity will ever be the same.

.