How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Boss]

You posit an opinion as fact. But AT least you are a gentleman about this. You take away from this there IS a GOD, I am not seeing that. But when you die and see God put a good word in for me. If meet him first, I owe you a coke. Deal?

Haha.. Deal!!

Let me just say that a LOT of people don't see God because they don't want to see. I have found that a lot of atheists here seem to think the only possibility for any kind of God existing is a Christian or Abrahamic God... or worse yet, some terribly stupid and childish interpretation of such. I don't believe in those either.

I'm not the type of person who can have blind faith. I don't simply "believe in" spiritual nature, it's a realization and experience for me. Some people can't accept God because they can't see physical proof but I see all kinds of physical proof... God created the physical. Nothing else could create the physical, it defies physics.

 

[MaryL]

No coke, I will kiss you. But if there isn't a god, then what?

 

[Boss]

No coke, I will kiss you. But if there isn't a god, then what?

Well, I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed to find the God they imagined doesn't exist. But perhaps this is beyond my understanding as well and God somehow has a way to rectify our various incarnations of Him? It doesn't seem like everyone who believes in a God can be correct, but maybe they are?

If there isn't a "God" (meaning a singular supreme figurehead) then there is certainly a prevailing spiritual force. We can't have intrinsic awareness of something that doesn't exist, it makes no sense in logic or reason.

 

[Taz]

Did you ever figure out how marsupials got from Oz to Noah's raft and back?

yes.....but after I explained it to you, you simply asked again.......made you look rather silly, but that isn't my fault......

So they magically flew over like in a cartoon?

no child, that was not my answer.....

There was one supercontinent at the time?

sorry, that was not my answer either......

Noah only needed a few of each species because they later evolved into the millions of species we have now?

 

[Taz]

Reincarnation doesn't necessarily need a god to happen, not that I can tell anyways.

Doesn't need a "God" per say, but it does require spirituality.

How so?

Well, it's obvious isn't it? What the hell are we "reincarnating" if not the spirit? The physical body is dead... it doesn't reanimate. New people don't sprout up out of the ground where we bury dead people, so what kind of reincarnation were you thinking about? I assumed you meant our spirit, soul, the essence of who we are... but those are all non-physical (i.e.; spiritual) things.

I never said that a spirit reincarnates. If a spirit itself reincarnated wouldn't that spirit have access to all its past lives and experiences? Which is currently not the case.

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

 

[Boss]

Doesn't need a "God" per say, but it does require spirituality.

How so?

Well, it's obvious isn't it? What the hell are we "reincarnating" if not the spirit? The physical body is dead... it doesn't reanimate. New people don't sprout up out of the ground where we bury dead people, so what kind of reincarnation were you thinking about? I assumed you meant our spirit, soul, the essence of who we are... but those are all non-physical (i.e.; spiritual) things.

I never said that a spirit reincarnates. If a spirit itself reincarnated wouldn't that spirit have access to all its past lives and experiences? Which is currently not the case.

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

Well technically, there is no "proof" for anything, including reality. Why does the lack of physical proof mean anything to a spiritual entity or state? I have never understood that. We don't entertain the argument that lack of liquid proof must mean ice is not frozen water. We understand lack of liquid proof doesn't apply to ice because it's in a different state. Spirituality is nature in a different state than physical, and yes... I agree, dark energy and matter may very well have something to do with it.

This is why I constantly reject the inference that "spiritual" is "supernatural" ...it's very much a part of nature, not supernatural.

But we are getting far away from your previous admission regarding "reincarnation." The only thing you can possibly mean with regard to this is the spiritual aspects of who we are. However you want to couch that and reference it, doesn't matter, it conveys the exact same thing. A spiritual self. There is no such thing as non-metaphysical reincarnation.

 

[Hollie]

How so?

Well, it's obvious isn't it? What the hell are we "reincarnating" if not the spirit? The physical body is dead... it doesn't reanimate. New people don't sprout up out of the ground where we bury dead people, so what kind of reincarnation were you thinking about? I assumed you meant our spirit, soul, the essence of who we are... but those are all non-physical (i.e.; spiritual) things.

I never said that a spirit reincarnates. If a spirit itself reincarnated wouldn't that spirit have access to all its past lives and experiences? Which is currently not the case.

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

Well technically, there is no "proof" for anything, including reality. Why does the lack of physical proof mean anything to a spiritual entity or state? I have never understood that. We don't entertain the argument that lack of liquid proof must mean ice is not frozen water. We understand lack of liquid proof doesn't apply to ice because it's in a different state. Spirituality is nature in a different state than physical, and yes... I agree, dark energy and matter may very well have something to do with it.

This is why I constantly reject the inference that "spiritual" is "supernatural" ...it's very much a part of nature, not supernatural.

But we are getting far away from your previous admission regarding "reincarnation." The only thing you can possibly mean with regard to this is the spiritual aspects of who we are. However you want to couch that and reference it, doesn't matter, it conveys the exact same thing. A spiritual self. There is no such thing as non-metaphysical reincarnation.

Your invented spirit realms are of your own making. "Supernatural" as a term is something without a great deal of meaning as it applies to something beyond or outside of nature that remains undemonstrated and irrational.

So-called supernatural realms are just that: beyond anything of the rational, natural world. Please provide testable evidence that any of your gawds in your invented spirit realms do exist. What you don't realize is that the assertion of “supernatural” suggests a different realm, that cannot be tested, cannot be accessed and cannot be quantified or qualified and is therefore no different from describing “nothing”.

 

[Boss]

Well, it's obvious isn't it? What the hell are we "reincarnating" if not the spirit? The physical body is dead... it doesn't reanimate. New people don't sprout up out of the ground where we bury dead people, so what kind of reincarnation were you thinking about? I assumed you meant our spirit, soul, the essence of who we are... but those are all non-physical (i.e.; spiritual) things.

I never said that a spirit reincarnates. If a spirit itself reincarnated wouldn't that spirit have access to all its past lives and experiences? Which is currently not the case.

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

Well technically, there is no "proof" for anything, including reality. Why does the lack of physical proof mean anything to a spiritual entity or state? I have never understood that. We don't entertain the argument that lack of liquid proof must mean ice is not frozen water. We understand lack of liquid proof doesn't apply to ice because it's in a different state. Spirituality is nature in a different state than physical, and yes... I agree, dark energy and matter may very well have something to do with it.

This is why I constantly reject the inference that "spiritual" is "supernatural" ...it's very much a part of nature, not supernatural.

But we are getting far away from your previous admission regarding "reincarnation." The only thing you can possibly mean with regard to this is the spiritual aspects of who we are. However you want to couch that and reference it, doesn't matter, it conveys the exact same thing. A spiritual self. There is no such thing as non-metaphysical reincarnation.

Your invented spirit realms are of your own making. "Supernatural" as a term is something without a great deal of meaning as it applies to something beyond or outside of nature that remains undemonstrated and irrational.

So-called supernatural realms are just that: beyond anything of the rational, natural world. Please provide testable evidence that any of your gawds in your invented spirit realms do exist. What you don't realize is that the assertion of “supernatural” suggests a different realm, that cannot be tested, cannot be accessed and cannot be quantified or qualified and is therefore no different from describing “nothing”.

We can apply the very same standard to quantum entanglement, dark energy and dark matter, black holes and singularities. These are not supernatural phenomenon. The fact that we don't fully comprehend something on a physical level, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Human spirituality and spiritual nature is very much rational. Nothing else makes rational sense. Physical nature did not create itself. Life cannot create itself. You have no testable evidence for this. You have loads of theories and speculations, every single one of them ends with something you cannot rationalize or explain.

 

[Hollie]

I never said that a spirit reincarnates. If a spirit itself reincarnated wouldn't that spirit have access to all its past lives and experiences? Which is currently not the case.

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

Well technically, there is no "proof" for anything, including reality. Why does the lack of physical proof mean anything to a spiritual entity or state? I have never understood that. We don't entertain the argument that lack of liquid proof must mean ice is not frozen water. We understand lack of liquid proof doesn't apply to ice because it's in a different state. Spirituality is nature in a different state than physical, and yes... I agree, dark energy and matter may very well have something to do with it.

This is why I constantly reject the inference that "spiritual" is "supernatural" ...it's very much a part of nature, not supernatural.

But we are getting far away from your previous admission regarding "reincarnation." The only thing you can possibly mean with regard to this is the spiritual aspects of who we are. However you want to couch that and reference it, doesn't matter, it conveys the exact same thing. A spiritual self. There is no such thing as non-metaphysical reincarnation.

Your invented spirit realms are of your own making. "Supernatural" as a term is something without a great deal of meaning as it applies to something beyond or outside of nature that remains undemonstrated and irrational.

So-called supernatural realms are just that: beyond anything of the rational, natural world. Please provide testable evidence that any of your gawds in your invented spirit realms do exist. What you don't realize is that the assertion of “supernatural” suggests a different realm, that cannot be tested, cannot be accessed and cannot be quantified or qualified and is therefore no different from describing “nothing”.

We can apply the very same standard to quantum entanglement, dark energy and dark matter, black holes and singularities. These are not supernatural phenomenon. The fact that we don't fully comprehend something on a physical level, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Human spirituality and spiritual nature is very much rational. Nothing else makes rational sense. Physical nature did not create itself. Life cannot create itself. You have no testable evidence for this. You have loads of theories and speculations, every single one of them ends with something you cannot rationalize or explain.

You spend way too much time at the ICR website.

Your inventions of various spirit realms and an alternate reality you retreat to as a means of placating your fears and superstitions is not winning converts.

 

[Boss]

I guess we need to have you define what you think "reincarnation" means?

Then, we need to find out what kind of science you are using to determine what spirits can or can't do, have access to, or what is and isn't the current case.

There is no proof of a spirit that goes from life to life as a single entity. There could be simply a life energy that continues, possibly even related to dark matter, but that would just be a guess on my part at this point. Such a life energy is maybe a natural force of the universe, like gravity. Plants and other animals are alive and are aware of their surroundings as well. So it's probably part of the same natural force.

Well technically, there is no "proof" for anything, including reality. Why does the lack of physical proof mean anything to a spiritual entity or state? I have never understood that. We don't entertain the argument that lack of liquid proof must mean ice is not frozen water. We understand lack of liquid proof doesn't apply to ice because it's in a different state. Spirituality is nature in a different state than physical, and yes... I agree, dark energy and matter may very well have something to do with it.

This is why I constantly reject the inference that "spiritual" is "supernatural" ...it's very much a part of nature, not supernatural.

But we are getting far away from your previous admission regarding "reincarnation." The only thing you can possibly mean with regard to this is the spiritual aspects of who we are. However you want to couch that and reference it, doesn't matter, it conveys the exact same thing. A spiritual self. There is no such thing as non-metaphysical reincarnation.

Your invented spirit realms are of your own making. "Supernatural" as a term is something without a great deal of meaning as it applies to something beyond or outside of nature that remains undemonstrated and irrational.

So-called supernatural realms are just that: beyond anything of the rational, natural world. Please provide testable evidence that any of your gawds in your invented spirit realms do exist. What you don't realize is that the assertion of “supernatural” suggests a different realm, that cannot be tested, cannot be accessed and cannot be quantified or qualified and is therefore no different from describing “nothing”.

We can apply the very same standard to quantum entanglement, dark energy and dark matter, black holes and singularities. These are not supernatural phenomenon. The fact that we don't fully comprehend something on a physical level, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Human spirituality and spiritual nature is very much rational. Nothing else makes rational sense. Physical nature did not create itself. Life cannot create itself. You have no testable evidence for this. You have loads of theories and speculations, every single one of them ends with something you cannot rationalize or explain.

You spend way too much time at the ICR website.

Your inventions of various spirit realms and an alternate reality you retreat to as a means of placating your fears and superstitions is not winning converts.

And you spend way too much time at this website typing out the same dimwitted retorts. It's hard to convert that last 5% because most of them are stubborn and ignorant like you. I've been posting on forums for 20 years and I've never had anyone tell me I changed their mind. It's funny you believe this is my motive.

 

[edthecynic]

If the constant of gravity is different then the effect of gravity is also different. This effects quarks, leptons, electrons... all kinds of things at the subatomic level which are not as they are because the gravitational constant told them to be.

But that would make the gravitational constant the "tuner" not the tuned!

 

[edthecynic]

My belief the universe is finely tuned is based on science and physics.

Impossible, as you understand neither.

 

[edthecynic]

Scientists have never been able to produce life from inorganic material. All life comes from life.

But all life is made up from naturally occurring inorganic molecules, so all life comes from inorganic material.

 

[Boss]

If the constant of gravity is different then the effect of gravity is also different. This effects quarks, leptons, electrons... all kinds of things at the subatomic level which are not as they are because the gravitational constant told them to be.

But that would make the gravitational constant the "tuner" not the tuned!

No more than your radio is the "tuner" because it happens to be on a station when you turned it on.

 

[Boss]

My belief the universe is finely tuned is based on science and physics.

Impossible, as you understand neither.

I understand them better than you even with the observatory avatar. I presented a rather impressive list of noted physicists who agree the universe is finely tuned and you produced diddly-squat to refute that.

 

[Boss]

Scientists have never been able to produce life from inorganic material. All life comes from life.

But all life is made up from naturally occurring inorganic molecules, so all life comes from inorganic material.

Life comes from life. Provide evidence to the contrary.

 

[Hollie]

My belief the universe is finely tuned is based on science and physics.

Impossible, as you understand neither.

I understand them better than you even with the observatory avatar. I presented a rather impressive list of noted physicists who agree the universe is finely tuned and you produced diddly-squat to refute that.

What you did was classic "quote-mining". It's a common practice among religious zealots who take edited, parsed and out of context "quotes" and then attempt to portray the authors intent as having some connection with your religious beliefs.

It's a dishonest and unethical tactic but common among the ICR groupies.

 

[Hollie]

Scientists have never been able to produce life from inorganic material. All life comes from life.

But all life is made up from naturally occurring inorganic molecules, so all life comes from inorganic material.

Life comes from life. Provide evidence to the contrary.

Life comes from organic organisms. There are a number of pathways that science has discovered whereby the elements of life that are abundant in the universe could spark life.

Identify how your gawds suddenly *poofed* life into existence.

 

[Hollie]

If the constant of gravity is different then the effect of gravity is also different. This effects quarks, leptons, electrons... all kinds of things at the subatomic level which are not as they are because the gravitational constant told them to be.

But that would make the gravitational constant the "tuner" not the tuned!

No more than your radio is the "tuner" because it happens to be on a station when you turned it on.

A radio requires no intervention by the gawds. Yours is yet another bad analogy furthered by your pals at the ICR.

 

[Boss]

Scientists have never been able to produce life from inorganic material. All life comes from life.

But all life is made up from naturally occurring inorganic molecules, so all life comes from inorganic material.

Life comes from life. Provide evidence to the contrary.

Life comes from organic organisms. There are a number of pathways that science has discovered whereby the elements of life that are abundant in the universe could spark life.

Identify how your gawds suddenly *poofed* life into existence.

It's like PmP told you, we both believe the same weird "supernatural" shit happened, you just believe it was by random chance and no direction. Science has done nothing but present assorted theories. There are as many as 127 variations of Abiogenesis theory, some of them contradicting physical nature and the laws of the universe. None of them testable or provable and not even observable... but look at how devoutly you believe?

LMFAO @ Life comes from organisms! WOW!