How do we fix obamacare?

[Sarah G]

Thank you for pointing out my horrific error....fixed

Wingnuts have been doing that to me so I thought I'd return the favor. Thanks for fixing, I wouldn't have slept tonight thinking about it.

Well, that's nice that you decided to return the favor to someone who never does that

You are judged by the company you keep.

 

[Bfgrn]

That has to be the most disengenuous piece of crap that has been posted here for a long time. It never ceases to amaze me how you libs do not even understand the philosophy that you embrace. everything you said above is wrong---------every word of it.


conservativism is based on individual rights and freedom.

liberalism is based on the fear of failure and the idea that the state should be your momma for life.

Hey pea brain, EXPLAIN how you right wing parrots can be for something Republicans propose and vehemently against it when Democrats propose the same fucking thing?

The ACA is almost a carbon copy of the health care bills the Heritage foundation crafted for Republicans.

No, its not. You are the pea brain in this debate.

Call me any name you wish. Obamacare is almost identical to Romneycare, and almost identical to the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act proposed by Senator John Chafee (R-RI) in 1993.

You can't fudge the truth.

1994

Robert Moffit - The Heritage Foundation senior fellow

Let's let Robert Moffit, who was deputy director of domestic policy studies at The Heritage Foundation back in 1994 explain. Here is what conservatives said when THEY proposed the individual mandate in the leading Senate alternative to the Clinton plan.

The Taxpayer Mandate

Policy analysts at The Heritage Foundation have wrestled incessantly with. this problem, while developing a “consumer choice” plan for comprehensive health system reform, now embodied in a major legislative proposal.3 Only after extensive analysis of the peculiar distortions of the health insurance market did Heritage scholars reluctantly agree to an individual mandate.

On this point, some observations are in order. First, much of the debate over whether we should have a mandate is, in a sense, a debate over a “metaphysical abstraction.” 4 For all practical purposes, we already have a powerful and increasingly oppressive mandate: a mandate on taxpayers.

We all pay for the health care of those who do not pay, in two ways. First, people with private insurance pay through that insurance– even though that insurance is often the property of employers under current law. This reflects the ever-higher costs shifted to offset the billions of dollars of costs of uncompensated care in hospitals, clinics, and physicians’ offices. Second, if those who are uninsured get seriously ill and are forced to spend down their assets to cope with their huge medical bills, their care is paid for, not through employer-based or private insurance premiums, but through taxes, money taken by federal and state tax collectors to fund Medicaid or other public assistance programs that serve the poor or those impoverished because of a serious illness.

Hospitals also have legal obligations to accept and care for those who enter seeking assistance. No responsible public official is proposing repeal of these statutory provisions, and very few physicians, if any, are prepared to deny treatment to persons seeking their help merely because they cannot afford to pay. As taxpayers and subscribers to private health insurance, the American people pick up these bills.

Aside from current economic arrangements, the entire moral and cultural tenor of our society reinforces the taxpayer mandate. Those who are uninsured and cannot pay for their care will be cared for, and those who are insured and working will pay for that care.

So, we already have a mandate. But it is both inefficient and unfair.

3 The Consumer Choice Health Security Act. sponsored by Sen. Don Nickles (R-OK) and Rep. Cliff Steams (R-FL). The bill has twenty-four Senate cosponsors, making it the leading Senate alternative to the Clinton plan. S.M. Butler and E.F. Haislmaier, “The Consumer Choice Health Security Act (S. 1743, H.R. 3698),” Issue Bulletin no. 186 (The Heritage Foundation, December 1993).

 

[blackhawk]

How do we fix Obamacare? To do.
1. Lower the cost for the avg man
2. Improve quality?
3. Increase Medical research???

I want to read a serious debate on getting the 3.

You can't fix stupid sorry about that.

 

[PixieStix]

Wingnuts have been doing that to me so I thought I'd return the favor. Thanks for fixing, I wouldn't have slept tonight thinking about it.

Well, that's nice that you decided to return the favor to someone who never does that

You are judged by the company you keep.

And you are judged by the way you act.. I judge you based on your actions and your words, not the actions of someone else

 

[Pogo]

What is it about the truth that scares you so much? Sure, Hannity is a right winger, but he lets the other side express their views with equal time.

the problem that you have is that when both sides are given equal time, the left always loses because liberal ideas do not stand up to a test of logic and reason.

liberalism is based on false empathy and sympathy as a cover up for totalitaranism and statism.

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone (1809 – 1898)

It is pretty amazing just how stupid you right wing parrots really are, but parrots can only mimic, not think.

Hannity is a HACK.

Liberalism is totally based on logic, reason and pragmatism. There really is no hard 'ideology' for liberalism, except liberals put people before property. Liberals have a firm grasp on reality and address problems using the best method. It doesn't have to be an idea that a liberal came up with. The health care law called 'Obamacare' is a PERFECT example. It is almost wholly a Republican idea, right down to the 'individual mandate, your you right wing 'ideologue' parrots chirp whatever morons like Hannity tell you.

Conservatism is totally based on emotion, the strongest human emotion...FEAR.

Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans.
Will Rogers

That has to be the most disengenuous piece of crap that has been posted here for a long time. It never ceases to amaze me how you libs do not even understand the philosophy that you embrace. everything you said above is wrong---------every word of it.


conservativism is based on individual rights and freedom.

liberalism is based on the fear of failure and the idea that the state should be your momma for life.

Balderdash.

What you just described as "conservatism" is in fact Liberalism.
What you just described as "liberalism" is "statism", or the welfare state.

Go buy a clue.

 

[Old Rocks]

Obamacare hasn't even begun yet. Nobody will be taking your advice about Obamacare, we will see soon how well it works for everyone.

As for letting the free market take over, we've seen how well that doesn't work. You're forgetting the greed factor. It is what led us to creating Obamacare in the first place.

Affordable healthcare is necessary for a robust economy to finally take hold.

Being that my wife is a decade younger than I am, with her health problems, I could not afford to retire, even if I wanted to. Under present rates, it would run me nearly 9K a year to insure her on a basic 70% plan. Under the ACA, after 2014, were I retired on SS and the pension, it would cost me under 1700 hundred. That is doable. And, since I will be 70 before the year is out, gives me and my wife an option we did not have before.

 

[Old Rocks]

How do we fix Obamacare? To do.
1. Lower the cost for the avg man
2. Improve quality?
3. Increase Medical research???

I want to read a serious debate on getting the 3.

You can't fix stupid sorry about that.

LOL. Stupid is the present health care system in the US. But we will fix that. Universal Single Payer System to be created under President Hillary Clinton.

 

[Geaux4it]

How do we fix Obamacare? To do.
1. Lower the cost for the avg man
2. Improve quality?
3. Increase Medical research???

I want to read a serious debate on getting the 3.

You can't fix stupid sorry about that.

LOL. Stupid is the present health care system in the US. But we will fix that. Universal Single Payer System to be created under President Hillary Clinton.

I am happy with my health care.

No issues with it

-Geaux

 

[dblack]

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone (1809 – 1898)

It is pretty amazing just how stupid you right wing parrots really are, but parrots can only mimic, not think.

Hannity is a HACK.

Liberalism is totally based on logic, reason and pragmatism. There really is no hard 'ideology' for liberalism, except liberals put people before property. Liberals have a firm grasp on reality and address problems using the best method. It doesn't have to be an idea that a liberal came up with. The health care law called 'Obamacare' is a PERFECT example. It is almost wholly a Republican idea, right down to the 'individual mandate, your you right wing 'ideologue' parrots chirp whatever morons like Hannity tell you.

Conservatism is totally based on emotion, the strongest human emotion...FEAR.

Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans.
Will Rogers

That has to be the most disengenuous piece of crap that has been posted here for a long time. It never ceases to amaze me how you libs do not even understand the philosophy that you embrace. everything you said above is wrong---------every word of it.


conservativism is based on individual rights and freedom.

liberalism is based on the fear of failure and the idea that the state should be your momma for life.

Balderdash.

What you just described as "conservatism" is in fact Liberalism.
What you just described as "liberalism" is "statism", or the welfare state.

Go buy a clue.

I totally get how important these battles over words can be. But it's pretty difficult to go against the grain in that regard. You end up only able to communicate with the two or three people who understand what you really mean. Maybe it would be better to focus instead on what we're losing by using the popular, yet and selectively inaccurate, definitions?

 

[RDD_1210]

You can't fix stupid sorry about that.

LOL. Stupid is the present health care system in the US. But we will fix that. Universal Single Payer System to be created under President Hillary Clinton.

I am happy with my health care.

No issues with it

-Geaux

Tell us about that time you had cancer and then tried to renew your policy.

 

[blackhawk]

How do we fix Obamacare? To do.
1. Lower the cost for the avg man
2. Improve quality?
3. Increase Medical research???

I want to read a serious debate on getting the 3.

You can't fix stupid sorry about that.

LOL. Stupid is the present health care system in the US. But we will fix that. Universal Single Payer System to be created under President Hillary Clinton.

Would that be the same system she tried to push and failed with when she was the co- President with Bill?

 

[Spoonman]

ObamaCare cannot be fixed. It is Too Big To Succeed with so many aspects that are not understood, that attempt to "fix it" carry too much risk of yet more horrible (un)intended consequences.

obamacare is not a solution. it spreads the wealth, plain and simple. a segment of the population gets free health care and it is paid for by people who are working. the benefits are not universally equitable.

 

[realinvestment]

Obamacare should be a back stop. Basic coverage. We can't have one system that treats everyone the same, nor should every provider be treated the same.

For people who want premium coverage, they should be able to purchase it, and get access to the best, like Mayo Clinic, or the senior specialists.

Likewise, the best providers shouldn't have their income limited by a one fits all system.

 

[RDD_1210]

Obamacare should be a back stop. Basic coverage. We can't have one system that treats everyone the same, nor should every provider be treated the same.

For people who want premium coverage, they should be able to purchase it, and get access to the best, like Mayo Clinic, or the senior specialists.

Likewise, the best providers shouldn't have their income limited by a one fits all system.

In other words... A public option.

I agree

 

[RDD_1210]

ObamaCare cannot be fixed. It is Too Big To Succeed with so many aspects that are not understood, that attempt to "fix it" carry too much risk of yet more horrible (un)intended consequences.

obamacare is not a solution. it spreads the wealth, plain and simple. a segment of the population gets free health care and it is paid for by people who are working. the benefits are not universally equitable.

And how is this different than what we had before?

 

[Grandma]

Obamacare hasn't even begun yet. Nobody will be taking your advice about Obamacare, we will see soon how well it works for everyone.

As for letting the free market take over, we've seen how well that doesn't work. You're forgetting the greed factor. It is what led us to creating Obamacare in the first place.

Affordable healthcare is necessary for a robust economy to finally take hold.

Majority of Americans don't want it

Next

-Geaux

Disinformation. The majority of those that don't like Obamacare are upset because IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. Yep, they want universal health care. But for now, they'll take Obamacare.

As for the rest that don't like it, most have been scared by the lies from the right. They actually believe there are death panels and forced microchip implants.

So in truth, the majority of Americans WANT Obamacare.

 

[Geaux4it]

Not even the author has confidence in this disaster of epic propotions

-Geaux



All Aboard for the Obamacare Train Wreck - David Spady - Page 1

Montana Senator Max Baucus, who led the effort in Congress to pass Obamacare, is now referring to it as a “coming train wreck”. Baucus has announced he will not to seek re-election in 2014, perhaps to avoid the inevitable embarrassment of this pending disaster. He’s not alone in his concern. The prospect that too few Americans will enroll in the program, thus rendering it unfeasible, has the administration fearful that Baucus is right -- it may actually end up derailed.

 

[Geaux4it]

Obamacare hasn't even begun yet. Nobody will be taking your advice about Obamacare, we will see soon how well it works for everyone.

As for letting the free market take over, we've seen how well that doesn't work. You're forgetting the greed factor. It is what led us to creating Obamacare in the first place.

Affordable healthcare is necessary for a robust economy to finally take hold.

Majority of Americans don't want it

Next

-Geaux

So in truth, the majority of Americans WANT Obamacare.

Um, no they don't grandma

-Geaux

 

[RDD_1210]

Majority of Americans don't want it

Next

-Geaux

So in truth, the majority of Americans WANT Obamacare.

Um, no they don't grandma

-Geaux

Sure they do. You do too. I'll prove it.

Besides the mandate, which portion of the law, specifically, do you not agree with?

 

[Geaux4it]

So in truth, the majority of Americans WANT Obamacare.

Um, no they don't grandma

-Geaux

Sure they do. You do too. I'll prove it.

Besides the mandate, which portion of the law, specifically, do you not agree with?

The mandate

But if one accept failed socialized medicine, there are other issues to consider

-Geaux

http://www.infowars.com/15-reasons-...ision-is-a-mind-blowing-disaster-for-america/

The following are 15 reasons why the Obamacare decision is a mind blowing disaster for America….

#1 According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the federal government has the power to force you to buy private goods and services. Now that this door has been opened, what else will we be forced to buy in the future?

#2 Obamacare is another step away from individual liberty and another step toward a “nanny state” where the government dominates our lives from the cradle to the grave.

#3 The IRS is now going to be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that do not have any health insurance. In fact, the Obama administration has given the IRS 500 million extra dollars “outside the normal appropriations process” to help them enforce the provisions of Obamacare that they are in charge of overseeing
.
#4 Obamacare imposes more than 20 new taxes on the American people. You can find a comprehensive list of Obamacare taxes right here. If you love paying higher taxes, then you are going to absolutely love Obamacare once it is fully implemented.

#5 In an attempt to “control costs” and “promote efficiency”, Obamacare limits the treatment options that doctors and patients can consider. This is likely to result in a decrease in life expectancy in the United States.

#6 Obamacare is going to impose nightmarish paperwork burdens on doctors, hospitals and the rest of the healthcare system. This is going to significantly increase our healthcare costs as a nation.

#7 Obamacare is going to send health insurance premiums soaring. This is especially true for younger Americans.

#8 Many small businesses are going to be absolutely crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. This is going to make them even less competitive with companies in other countries where businesses are not required to provide healthcare for their workers. This is also going to make it even less attractive for businesses to hire new employees.

#9 Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse. Surveys have found that we could potentially see hundreds of thousands of doctors leave the medical profession because of Obamacare.

#10 Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of dozens of doctor-owned hospitals.

#11 Obamacare is going to result in a much bigger federal government. In order to fully implement all of the provisions of Obamacare, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required.

#12 Thanks to Obamacare, you are going to have to wait much longer to see a doctor. Just look at what happened once Romneycare was implemented in Massachusetts….
In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

#13 Obamacare contains all kinds of insidious little provisions that most people don’t even know about. The following is one example from the Alliance Defense Fund….
“Did you know that with ObamaCare you will have to pay for life-saving drugs, but life-ending drugs are free. One hundred percent free. If this plan were really about health care wouldn’t it be the other way around?”

#14 As if the U.S. government was not facing enough of a crisis with entitlement spending, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls. You and I will be paying for all of this.

#15 The Congressional Budget Office estimates that Obamacare will add more than a trillion dollars to government spending over the next decade. Considering the fact that the U.S. government is already drowning in debt, how in the world can we afford this?