Zone1 How important is it you as a Christian?

[kjw47]

The 'snake' wasn't a snake. It was the product of the literary device of anthropomorphism. Review the root word in the Hebrew dictionary.

"Belly" doesn't mean 'go on your belly' (like a snake). Review the root word in the Hebrew dictionary.

If Eve was going to only produce 'the children of God', and the Serpent was going to father the evil people, why would God curse her by her bringing forth children in sorrow (grievous hardship).

Why would God tell the snake that it would eat dirt all of its days when there's no evidence that snakes ever ate dirt. We do know that women eat dirt and have for perhaps thousands of years.

The story only makes sense if Eve was being possessed by the serpent from within as an 'alter ego' and God was speaking to 'both' in the whole discourse, just as Jesus was speaking to Satan while looking directly at Peter.

strange concept.

 

[kjw47]

Eve produced the serpent's seed, Cain
She also produced God's seed, Abel.
There was 'enmity' between them.

That isn't what it was saying.

 

[Woodznutz]

That isn't what it was saying.

The 'children of the Devil' are born of women, not snakes (real or metaphorical). Unless God chooses them, every person is destined to become a child of the Devil.

 

[Woodznutz]

strange concept.

Out of curiosity, did you research my claims or did you dismiss them out of hand?

 

[kjw47]

The 'children of the Devil' are born of women, not snakes (real or metaphorical). Unless God chooses them, every person is destined to become a child of the Devil.

Jesus opened the door to ALL men. unfortunately 99% are mislead.

 

[kjw47]

Out of curiosity, did you research my claims or did you dismiss them out of hand?

The teachings of Jesus back the JW,s all the way. In every translation on earth. I need look no where else, i have found Gods truth.

 

[Woodznutz]

The teachings of Jesus back the JW,s all the way. In every translation on earth. I need look no where else, i have found Gods truth.

Do the JW's believe that snakes can talk, and eat dirt?

 

[kjw47]

Do the JW's believe that snakes can talk, and eat dirt?

It was the fallen anointed cherub that spoke through the serpent. And eating dirt is possibly symbolic.

 

[ding]

The 'snake' wasn't a snake. It was the product of the literary device of anthropomorphism. Review the root word in the Hebrew dictionary.

"Belly" doesn't mean 'go on your belly' (like a snake). Review the root word in the Hebrew dictionary.

If Eve was going to only produce 'the children of God', and the Serpent was going to father the evil people, why would God curse her by her bringing forth children in sorrow (grievous hardship).

Why would God tell the snake that it would eat dirt all of its days when there's no evidence that snakes ever ate dirt. We do know that women eat dirt and have for perhaps thousands of years.

The story only makes sense if Eve was being possessed by the serpent from within as an 'alter ego' and God was speaking to 'both' in the whole discourse, just as Jesus was speaking to Satan while looking directly at Peter.

I always took it to mean that women are the key to fighting evil. Putting emnity between the woman and evil (i.e. the snake) is a good thing, right?

 

[Woodznutz]

I always took it to mean that women are the key to fighting evil. Putting emnity between the woman and evil (i.e. the snake) is a good thing, right?

Women are the Devil's favorite vessel for bringing evil.

The two offspring would have enmity toward each other, but Eve was the only one to produce the offspring. It only took the first generation of her children to fulfill this prophecy.

 

[Woodznutz]

It was the fallen anointed cherub that spoke through the serpent. And eating dirt is possibly symbolic.

Women actually eat dirt, which is not symbolic. They also deliver babies from their belly in a gush of water and blood (belly in Hebrew)

Lucifer was the serpent; the enchanter, deceiver, teacher.

 

[presonorek]

Once I brought a snake home. It climbed high in a tree so I knocked it out of the tree. Once it was on the ground my dad killed it but he didn’t just kill it. He cut it into about 15 pieces no exaggeration. He sure hated snakes with a passionate fury my whole life and he still does. I’d be surprised to find out that his over the top hatred for snakes wasn’t motivated by his biblical knowledge. I’m pretty sure he felt like his excessively violent response to snakes was holy and honorable. I always thought killing snakes is just what some people think you should do but my dad took it about 100 steps further. I thought it was childish and showboaty. He wanted to impress onlookers and build a reputation as the master snake hater.

 

[zaangalewa]

That there is enmity between people and snakes. ...

If we want to understand the "story of our redemption", we must look to the cross. Pope Francis' homily at Mass on the morning of March 15 [2016] focused on the "mystery" of the suffering and death of Jesus, who "became sin" for the salvation of mankind. At the center of the Pope's thoughts was the image of the serpent taken from the day's readings, which contained a "message".

The serpent "is the first animal mentioned in the Book of Genesis", said the Pope, and it is described as the "most cunning" animal. This animal appears again in the Bible in the Book of Numbers (21:4-9), from which the first reading was taken. It tells how the people in the desert rebelled against God and Moses: "Then the Lord sent poisonous snakes among the people. They bit the people, and many Israelites died. " Then the people converted, asked for forgiveness and God said to Moses: "Make yourself a snake and hang it on a flagpole! Anyone who is bitten will stay alive if they look at it." St. Francis remarked: "That's strange: the Lord doesn't let the snakes die, he lets them continue to be there. But if one of them bites a person, then that person should look at the copper snake and he will be healed." The snake is therefore hung on a pole in order to achieve salvation.

The Pope then referred to the Gospel of the day (John 8:21-30), in which Jesus argues with the scribes and tells them very clearly: "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that it is I."Francis explained: "'I am' is the name of God. When Moses asks God the question:'When the people want to know who sent me, when they ask: Who is sending you to deliver us?What is his name?" - "I am."And then: "Exalt the Son of Man!Like the serpent..."A few chapters earlier, Jesus "said the same thing to the scribes: 'As Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may be saved'."The serpent "is a symbol of sin: the serpent that kills.But a serpent saves.And that is the mystery of Christ," the Pope continued.

St. Paul also "speaks about this mystery and says that Jesus emptied himself, humbled himself to save us". And the apostle uses an even more impressive formulation: "He became sin for us. " If you want to use the biblical symbol, you could say: "He became a serpent." This is "the prophetic message of the readings of the day", the Pope emphasized: "The Son of Man who is lifted up like a serpent - having become sin - in order to save us."

We must therefore "look to the Crucified One and to this mystery: a God who has completely emptied himself of his divinity in order to save us". Francis asked: "Who is this serpent that Jesus takes upon himself to defeat?" The answer is found in the Book of Revelation of St. John, where the word appears again.Incidentally, the serpent in the Bible is "the first animal mentioned, and perhaps also the last".In the last book of the Bible, we read that "the old serpent, who is called the devil or Satan", was defeated.Sin is therefore "the work of Satan, and Jesus defeats Satan 'by becoming sin'".From the cross, he "lifts us all up".Therefore, "the cross is not a piece of jewelry, not a work of art with many precious stones, as one can sometimes see.The cross is the mystery of God's 'humiliation' out of love."

The serpent, Francis continued, "prophesies salvation in the desert": because "it is lifted up, and everyone who looks at it is healed".But this salvation was not brought about "with a magic wand by a God who sets things right in this way".Rather, salvation was brought about "through the suffering of the Son of Man, through the suffering of Jesus Christ". A suffering that was so great that Jesus asked the Father: "Father, please, if it is possible, I do not want to drink this cup."Here "the fear" becomes clear, which is, however, accompanied by the words: "But your will be done."

This is "the story of our redemption, the story of God's love", the Pope emphasized. And "if we want to get to know the love of God, then we should look to the cross". There we encounter "a tortured, killed human being who is God, 'emptied of his divinity', defiled, 'turned into sin'".

In conclusion, Francis asked: "May the Lord give us the grace to understand this mystery a little better."
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Translation from this source: Die Schlange, die tötet, und die Schlange, die rettet (15. März 2016) | Franziskus
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[Woodznutz]

Once I brought a snake home. It climbed high in a tree so I knocked it out of the tree. Once it was on the ground my dad killed it but he didn’t just kill it. He cut it into about 15 pieces no exaggeration. He sure hated snakes with a passionate fury my whole life and he still does. I’d be surprised to find out that his over the top hatred for snakes wasn’t motivated by his biblical knowledge. I’m pretty sure he felt like his excessively violent response to snakes was holy and honorable. I always thought killing snakes is just what some people think you should do but my dad took it about 100 steps further. I thought it was childish and showboaty. He wanted to impress onlookers and build a reputation as the master snake hater.

I once saw a group of children do this. They had cut up a large garter snake in pieces which lay in a pool of blood on the sidewalk, One child was carrying the head of the snake on the end of stick. It was quite gruesome and disturbing to see.

 

[ding]

That there is enmity between people and snakes.

Not people. WOMEN.

 

[Woodznutz]

Not people. WOMEN.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[ding]

Women are the Devil's favorite vessel for bringing evil.

The two offspring would have enmity toward each other, but Eve was the only one to produce the offspring. It only took the first generation of her children to fulfill this prophecy.

I could not disagree more. You're reading it wrong if that is your conclusion. It wasn't a prophecy. The definition of enmity is the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something. The verse was being spoken to the snake and was about the snake's offspring and Eve's offspring. And the snake's offspring and Eve's offspring will strike at the head of the snake. While the snake strikes at heels of his own offspring and Eve's offspring. In essence it's describing a battle against evil and that evil's own offspring will be used against itself.

It's deep shit.

 

[ding]

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

See post #37

 

[Woodznutz]

I could not disagree more. You're reading it wrong if that is your conclusion. It wasn't a prophecy. The definition of enmity is the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something. The verse was being spoken to the snake and was about the snake's offspring and Eve's offspring. And the snake's offspring and Eve's offspring will strike at the head of the snake. While the snake strikes at heels of his own offspring and Eve's offspring. In essence it's describing a battle against evil and that evil's own offspring will be used against itself.

It's deep shit.

Genesis 3:15 is generally believed to refer to the crucifixion of Christ, and the ultimate fate of Satan.

Matthew 12:22-26 dispels the notion that "the serpent eats its own tail".

22 "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"

 

[ding]

Genesis 3:15 is generally believed to refer to the crucifixion of Christ, and the ultimate fate of Satan.

Matthew 12:22-26 dispels the notion that "the serpent eats its own tail".

22 "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"

I'm not big on mixing and matching verses to arrive at what I want to see. I'm not saying that it shouldn't ever be done but it should be done with great caution as it can be a slippery slope.