How is it Congress can have a chaplain....

[Rustic]

Odd that a secular organization like a public school should find a secular holiday like Christmas so objectionable.

So very true... lol

 

[Rustic]

The should have signs on public schools… Leave your faith and family at the door… LOL

 

[OldLady]

I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.

I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.


In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post

Tackling the issue from one particular angle, one could look towards the issue educational value. If you allow for Christmas, then you must allow for every religious faith that participated in public education. That in itself can take time away from educating a basic skill or knowledge that can beneficial towards your career.

However, on using that argument, we find shop class is no longer being taught as fulfilling an “educational requirement”, yet at the same time there is a move towards teachihg regarding transgender classes and global warming being taught to our children. So can you honestly say it’s about providing a needed skill towards an educational benefit, or personal means of providing “influence”? Religion, can also be deemed as an influential part of a child’s upbringing as well through teachings. It comes down to how you want to influence your kids, but it’s not about a providing a necessary requirement towards a much needed skill.

An argument can be made for English and English composition, United States History, Math, science each having a skill benefit. Also shop class or even some form of financial accounting can have a benefit. However, topics like religion or transgender studies, speaks more to behavior than anything else. The question just comes down how much time are we imparting to our children that leads them towards a developed skill that aids them in obtaining a future career.



The Death Of Shop Class And America's Skilled Workforce

Transgender Agenda & Schools -- Some Won’t Even Let Parents Opt Out | National Review

I would hope global warming is being taught. They taught us about DNA and cellular mitosis, too, because it is established scientific fact.
They aren't teaching transgender studies at our local elementary schools. Just not to bully anyone for being different. Go cry about it.
I don't really understand how a 4 year old kid having a paper stocking which the teacher fills with pencils and a few treats on the day of the Christmas party is teaching religion or takes away from their academic achievement. C'mon. Get with the real world here. They're 4.

Well we are more familiar with Christmas than any Muslim holiday, for example. Then there is Budism, Hinduism, and every eastern form of religion. Where do you draw the boundary? If you allow for the representation of each, does that help us as much as using time to learn another language? How are we competing in what skills we actually impart, compared to students in Europe or Asia. You have to realize, at some point, we will be competing against them for employment. It’s far better we approach it from the child’s benefit. Incidently, that’s why I have chosen to invest in private education to include more foreign language study over issues of global warming and transgender type issues. I want to push for a higher achievement that actually competes with the skills European schools place on THEIR students.

Christmas for a 4 year old should not be discouraged, in my personal view, but when everyone wants you to be “politically correct” it’s as if others somehow know better than the actual parent. There is really too much “political correctness” that fails to broaden kids to both sides of an issue, and forces others to decide for the younger generation than it allows them to decide for themselves. I prefer attaining more knowledge, over someone’s one-sided particular view through indoctrination.

there is Budism, Hinduism, and every eastern form of religion. Where do you draw the boundary? If you allow for the representation of each, does that help us as much as using time to learn another language?
Well, yes; it helps us learn about other cultures.
Where my son went to elementary school, there were quite a few Jewish kids, so at the Holiday Pageant, we got the Dreidl song as well as Santa Claus is Coming to Town. Everyone was quite content. If there were any Buddhists or Hindus here, they could have their two hours of celebration for their new year or whatever it is they celebrate, and it would be very cool beans for the kids. Not a waste of time at all, in my opinion.

 

[OldLady]

Public schools should cut off all connection to family…
And just get it over with. That is their intention

I'm more of the opinion that families should cut off all connections to public schools.

Either way, The two cannot coexist... that’s obvious.

Public schools have no good intentions for family and faith...

I'm a teacher, so I'm going to resist this thread going the "Let's Trash Public Schools" route.
Just so ya know.

 

[harmonica]

plain and simple--this is a waste of $$$$$$$$$

 

[Rustic]

I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.

I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.


In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post

Tackling the issue from one particular angle, one could look towards the issue educational value. If you allow for Christmas, then you must allow for every religious faith that participated in public education. That in itself can take time away from educating a basic skill or knowledge that can beneficial towards your career.

However, on using that argument, we find shop class is no longer being taught as fulfilling an “educational requirement”, yet at the same time there is a move towards teachihg regarding transgender classes and global warming being taught to our children. So can you honestly say it’s about providing a needed skill towards an educational benefit, or personal means of providing “influence”? Religion, can also be deemed as an influential part of a child’s upbringing as well through teachings. It comes down to how you want to influence your kids, but it’s not about a providing a necessary requirement towards a much needed skill.

An argument can be made for English and English composition, United States History, Math, science each having a skill benefit. Also shop class or even some form of financial accounting can have a benefit. However, topics like religion or transgender studies, speaks more to behavior than anything else. The question just comes down how much time are we imparting to our children that leads them towards a developed skill that aids them in obtaining a future career.



The Death Of Shop Class And America's Skilled Workforce

Transgender Agenda & Schools -- Some Won’t Even Let Parents Opt Out | National Review

I would hope global warming is being taught. They taught us about DNA and cellular mitosis, too, because it is established scientific fact.
They aren't teaching transgender studies at our local elementary schools. Just not to bully anyone for being different. Go cry about it.
I don't really understand how a 4 year old kid having a paper stocking which the teacher fills with pencils and a few treats on the day of the Christmas party is teaching religion or takes away from their academic achievement. C'mon. Get with the real world here. They're 4.

Well we are more familiar with Christmas than any Muslim holiday, for example. Then there is Budism, Hinduism, and every eastern form of religion. Where do you draw the boundary? If you allow for the representation of each, does that help us as much as using time to learn another language? How are we competing in what skills we actually impart, compared to students in Europe or Asia. You have to realize, at some point, we will be competing against them for employment. It’s far better we approach it from the child’s benefit. Incidently, that’s why I have chosen to invest in private education to include more foreign language study over issues of global warming and transgender type issues. I want to push for a higher achievement that actually competes with the skills European schools place on THEIR students.

Christmas for a 4 year old should not be discouraged, in my personal view, but when everyone wants you to be “politically correct” it’s as if others somehow know better than the actual parent. There is really too much “political correctness” that fails to broaden kids to both sides of an issue, and forces others to decide for the younger generation than it allows them to decide for themselves. I prefer attaining more knowledge, over someone’s one-sided particular view through indoctrination.

there is Budism, Hinduism, and every eastern form of religion. Where do you draw the boundary? If you allow for the representation of each, does that help us as much as using time to learn another language?
Well, yes; it helps us learn about other cultures.
Where my son went to elementary school, there were quite a few Jewish kids, so at the Holiday Pageant, we got the Dreidl song as well as Santa Claus is Coming to Town. Everyone was quite content. If there were any Buddhists or Hindus here, they could have their two hours of celebration for their new year or whatever it is they celebrate, and it would be very cool beans for the kids. Not a waste of time at all, in my opinion.

That’s why public schools only can be effective if they kept to the absolute basics... and only the basics...
Reading, writing and arithmetic… Exclude all social preoccupations.

 

[sparky]

freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM it

~S~

Then why must a program funded with Federal dollars ban Christmas?

Because organized religion is like organized crime

it doesn't care who it targets , as long as it maintains control

~S~

 

[Marion Morrison]

Public schools should cut off all connection to family…
And just get it over with. That is their intention

I'm more of the opinion that families should cut off all connections to public schools.

Either way, The two cannot coexist... that’s obvious.

Public schools have no good intentions for family and faith...

I'm a teacher, so I'm going to resist this thread going the "Let's Trash Public Schools" route.
Just so ya know.

Duly noted.

 

[OldLady]

This could get interesting: Classic liberal vs. Professional Leftist troll.

Who dat?

Well girly, you are the "Classic Liberal", for starters.

Pogo is no Professional troll. He's just set in his ways like the rest of us.

 

[OldLady]

they pay him??!!!
that's a waste of tax $$$$$$
get rid of that crap right now.....
Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia
https://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

The Senate Chaplain’s Office has a budget of $436,886 this year.

The salaries alone for the three in the House chaplain’s office top $345,000 according to InsideGov. Add expenses and Congress is spending $800,000 every year on its opening prayers.

goddamn!! get rid of this crap now!!!
Wasteful spending: Congress pays clergy $66,000/hour to pray

Salary is $170,000 a year, is what I heard. Not outside the norm on the beltway.
My beef isn't about the money. Well, not THAT money.
Why can't 4 year olds in a Federally funded preschool program celebrate Christmas while these jokers in Washington are praying it up every time they open a session? I saw the Chaplain opening an awards ceremony for some Puerto Rican military vets once, too--first time I knew they were getting away with this. They're busy folks, blessing all the Great Works of the elected, hey?

the $$$$$ is my biggest beef
but you have a great point on the Christmas deal

Christmas decorations can be seen as a secular tradition, which it certainly is in this culture, as well as a religious one. The hypothetial classroom or other venue that puts up trees, lights, balls etc are actually following more of a pagan tradition than an organized religion.

But the manger scenes, though!

Every school used to do a Christmas program. Public or private.

Luke 2, baby.

We still do, just not the manger scene!

 

[Marion Morrison]

This could get interesting: Classic liberal vs. Professional Leftist troll.

Who dat?

Well girly, you are the "Classic Liberal", for starters.

Pogo is no Professional troll. He's just set in his ways like the rest of us.

 

[Penelope]

No, I do not think you are lying but as a taxpayer I do not want my tax dollars fully funding a daycare.

My understanding is that it is a Pre-K, not a daycare. I realize sometimes they have extended hours that turn them into defacto daycares, but I have been told it was a Pre-K program.
And why would you not want your tax dollars funding a daycare, even if that were the case? Having children safely housed with professionals in charge so that parents can afford to go to work is a good thing in my book. Nowhere near enough of it,imo. If there were a whole lot more of them, you would see the welfare rolls REALLY dwindle. Trust me on that.

Because I know a couple daycare owners and they get to write off everything, and didn't we just give a huge tax benefit of 6 grand per child a year? A pre k program is the same as a daycare. What is the difference? Most of our prop tax is going to schools.

 

[Rustic]

Public schools should cut off all connection to family…
And just get it over with. That is their intention

I'm more of the opinion that families should cut off all connections to public schools.

Either way, The two cannot coexist... that’s obvious.

Public schools have no good intentions for family and faith...

I'm a teacher, so I'm going to resist this thread going the "Let's Trash Public Schools" route.
Just so ya know.

Public schools would be just fine if they kept to the basics, Political correctness only hurts the adolescent mind...

Since you are a teacher, you should go visit a pure socialist school controlled by the federal government… See what you think.
Go to the Pineridge Indian reservation here in South Dakota - you would be appalled... lol

 

[whitehall]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

 

[OldLady]

there have been some challenges
they pay him??!!!
that's a waste of tax $$$$$$
get rid of that crap right now.....
Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia
https://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

The Senate Chaplain’s Office has a budget of $436,886 this year.

The salaries alone for the three in the House chaplain’s office top $345,000 according to InsideGov. Add expenses and Congress is spending $800,000 every year on its opening prayers.

goddamn!! get rid of this crap now!!!
Wasteful spending: Congress pays clergy $66,000/hour to pray
I don't care if you're a believer or not---this is a waste of $$$$$$$

Besides which, if some Congresscritter(s) desired to pray, why would they need to pay somebody to lead it? Apparently they know not how it's done and can't do it on their own, which sure doesn't make much of a case for its value.

Indeed there can be only one reason for setting up a "leader" in what should be private meditation, and that is to engender Groupthink. And that's antidemocratic.

I know better than to argue with you, but really? Prayer is Groupthink? Oh, Pogo, I hope you're being sarcastic.

No, not at all. Religion is a private matter. Once it starts electing "leaders" everybody in the "flock" has to "follow" --- that's groupthink. In fact now that you bring it up I see a direct parallel with another groupthink that prescribes everybody has to stand up for a national anthem at a sports event. Same thing.

You and my Dad would have gotten on well. He wouldn't step foot in a church, but he had nothing whatever against God or religion. Just do it privately (and slam the door on the Seventh Day Adventists).

 

[Rustic]

No, I do not think you are lying but as a taxpayer I do not want my tax dollars fully funding a daycare.

My understanding is that it is a Pre-K, not a daycare. I realize sometimes they have extended hours that turn them into defacto daycares, but I have been told it was a Pre-K program.
And why would you not want your tax dollars funding a daycare, even if that were the case? Having children safely housed with professionals in charge so that parents can afford to go to work is a good thing in my book. Nowhere near enough of it,imo. If there were a whole lot more of them, you would see the welfare rolls REALLY dwindle. Trust me on that.

Because I know a couple daycare owners and they get to write off everything, and didn't we just give a huge tax benefit of 6 grand per child a year? A pre k program is the same as a daycare. What is the difference? Most of our prop tax is going to schools.

Lol
We Are an overtaxed society, Take your taxes and shove them up your ass if you like them so much.

 

[Penelope]

Odd that a secular organization like a public school should find a secular holiday like Christmas so objectionable.

Christmas is now just a holiday for most, and the stores love it, but she said its not a parochial school, so its secular, I agree with the OP in her stance that we should not have Chaplin's in Congress.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

ACLU ought to be tarred, feathered, and rode out on a rail when they show up in a town.

 

[OldLady]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

You sure this is all the fault of the democrats?

 

[Marion Morrison]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

You sure this is all the fault of the democrats?

I'm not.