How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[Anomalism]

it's not a one-way street.

You're the one that thinks it's a one way street.

 

[westwall]

Why? Be specific.

Because a lot of jobs that don't require a lot of thinking are going to go away. As technology becomes more advanced we will need more educated professionals to stay ahead.

No job that requires thinking is going to go away. Jobs that require rote memorization are already being replaced by robots. Minimum wage jobs in the service industry are on the way out. That IS a fact. However, most people are incapable of learning advanced concepts in robotics, computer coding etc. There's a reason why computer coders get paid what they do. At least good ones. There is an army of crappy ones that don't make much because they aren't very good at it. Your problem is there is a vast ocean of average people. Average people do average things. They can't be trained to do high level work no matter how hard you try.

 

[Anomalism]

No job that requires thinking is going to go away. Jobs that require rote memorization are already being replaced by robots. Minimum wage jobs in the service industry are on the way out. That IS a fact. However, most people are incapable of learning advanced concepts in robotics, computer coding etc. There's a reason why computer coders get paid what they do. At least good ones. There is an army of crappy ones that don't make much because they aren't very good at it. Your problem is there is a vast ocean of average people. Average people do average things. They can't be trained to do high level work no matter how hard you try.

You don't think there's wasted potential in the states?

 

[westwall]

For once you got something correct. And who enables them to do that? THE GOVERNMENT!

It will always be about money when private interests are involved.

Ummmm, it is the GOVERNMENT that is driving useless degrees. Not the private sector. You know, the government that you want to use to take money away from the private sector to give to the government to promulgate the useless degrees....Do you understand the vicious circle you are placing yourself in yet?

 

[westwall]

It does? How? Be specific.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

 

[citygator]

Then you have no point here!

I have gotten to the point where I recognize that at an intellectual level right vs left is just a disagreement about values and morality. That's why none of us ever really change minds here. We're all just barking at the moon.

Oh? I think it is very clear. You either value the work ethic, and support those who are willing to work to get ahead. Or you don't. I have a kid i was tutoring in geology. He's smart, likes learning, but didn't know what he wanted to do with his life. We talked and I suggested he look into a trade school. He found one in Idaho for a electrical lineman. It cost 17,000 and he didn't have the cash for that, though he could have taken out a loan. I told him I would cover it, and he could pay me back at zero interest when he got a job.

We made a handshake agreement and off he went. He had a job before he graduated, and had me paid back before 6 months had passed. Now, he's moved up to a higher paying job and at the ripe old age of 24 he's pulling down 150,000 per year. When he gets his journeyman certificate, he will up that to over 200,000 per year. I have done that several times over the years, and not once has the agreement been not paid back.

There are nephews and nieces that I won't do that for because I know they are not interested in work. They just want to keep going to school so that they don't have to work. one of them is quite the educated little idiot. He has three bachelors degrees, and mountain of debt he will never pay off, and he works at as a bartender.

Bullshit. The average Journeyman makes $55k. Yes there is a bell curve around that but to sell it like $200k is his earnings is likely an exaggeration. At $25 an hour (the going rate) he’d have to work 152 hours a week to earn that. Shit, working 80 hours a week he’s have to be pulling down $48 an hour. Bull shit.

 

[Anomalism]

Ummmm, it is the GOVERNMENT that is driving useless degrees. Not the private sector. You know, the government that you want to use to take money away from the private sector to give to the government to promulgate the useless degrees....Do you understand the vicious circle you are placing yourself in yet?

The government is currently involved in making money off of ignorant and naive young people. I want to change that. I want education to not be profit motivated.

 

[Anomalism]

Yes, seriously.

I don't believe that you believe raising levels of education isn't useful to society.

 

[progressive hunter]

Ummmm, it is the GOVERNMENT that is driving useless degrees. Not the private sector. You know, the government that you want to use to take money away from the private sector to give to the government to promulgate the useless degrees....Do you understand the vicious circle you are placing yourself in yet?

The government is currently involved in making money off of ignorant and naive young people. I want to change that. I want education to not be profit motivated.

youre going about that the wrong way,,,

if thats what you want you should be advocating for trade schools where the student pays directly to the school,,,

 

[westwall]

No job that requires thinking is going to go away. Jobs that require rote memorization are already being replaced by robots. Minimum wage jobs in the service industry are on the way out. That IS a fact. However, most people are incapable of learning advanced concepts in robotics, computer coding etc. There's a reason why computer coders get paid what they do. At least good ones. There is an army of crappy ones that don't make much because they aren't very good at it. Your problem is there is a vast ocean of average people. Average people do average things. They can't be trained to do high level work no matter how hard you try.

You don't think there's wasted potential in the states?

Of course there is. It's not the governments responsibility to ferret it out. We are not a socialist country. Remember, in a socialist country you are only valuable to the State if you do something for them. The second you have no value they get rid of you. Want to see abject poverty? Go to any socialist State and look at how miserable their old folks are. Another thing to consider, in a socialist State you are EXPECTED to die for your country. That's why Germany, Japan, and Russia suffered such horrendous losses. The government simply felt that tanks were more valuable than the people manning them.

You need to do a lot of historical research so that you truly understand just how little a socialist government thinks about you.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes, seriously.

I don't believe that you believe raising levels of education isn't useful to society.

they dont need raised,,,

 

[Anomalism]

if thats what you want you should be advocating for trade schools where the student pays directly to the school,,,

That's how you would remove the profit motive?

 

[Anomalism]

Of course there is. It's not the governments responsibility to ferret it out.

Finding ways to minimize that wasted potential would benefit the nation.

 

[progressive hunter]

if thats what you want you should be advocating for trade schools where the student pays directly to the school,,,

That's how you would remove the profit motive?

what do you mean by profit??? all shcools need to profit so they can keep their doors open for next yr,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Of course there is. It's not the governments responsibility to ferret it out.

Finding ways to minimize that wasted potential would benefit the nation.

you dont have a right to tell others how to handle their potential,,,

 

[westwall]

Then you have no point here!

I have gotten to the point where I recognize that at an intellectual level right vs left is just a disagreement about values and morality. That's why none of us ever really change minds here. We're all just barking at the moon.

Oh? I think it is very clear. You either value the work ethic, and support those who are willing to work to get ahead. Or you don't. I have a kid i was tutoring in geology. He's smart, likes learning, but didn't know what he wanted to do with his life. We talked and I suggested he look into a trade school. He found one in Idaho for a electrical lineman. It cost 17,000 and he didn't have the cash for that, though he could have taken out a loan. I told him I would cover it, and he could pay me back at zero interest when he got a job.

We made a handshake agreement and off he went. He had a job before he graduated, and had me paid back before 6 months had passed. Now, he's moved up to a higher paying job and at the ripe old age of 24 he's pulling down 150,000 per year. When he gets his journeyman certificate, he will up that to over 200,000 per year. I have done that several times over the years, and not once has the agreement been not paid back.

There are nephews and nieces that I won't do that for because I know they are not interested in work. They just want to keep going to school so that they don't have to work. one of them is quite the educated little idiot. He has three bachelors degrees, and mountain of debt he will never pay off, and he works at as a bartender.

Bullshit. The average Journeyman makes $55k. Yes there is a bell curve around that but to sell it like $200k is his earnings is likely an exaggeration. At $25 an hour (the going rate) he’d have to work 152 hours a week to earn that. Shit, working 80 hours a week he’s have to be pulling down $48 an hour. Bull shit.

You might want to look up what California High voltage grid specialists make. He pulls in 3,000 a week after taxes. Before he got the california gig he was in pennsylvania and yes, he was making 28 ish an hour out there.

 

[citygator]

Trump fans’ moronic reasoning in this thread:

• Paying taxes isn’t patriotic it’s theft
• Rich people paying no taxes is ok, poor people paying no taxes is screwed up
• College is a grift for suckers
• They have no idea how to calculate taxes
• They have no idea where budgeted money goes
• They have underpaid the spending authorized by their elected officials by nearly $30T and think it went to poor people
• They underpaid spending by $30T and think that paying more to address the gap is Marxism
• They could care less about the deficit under Trump but have a colonoscopy ready for Democratic budgets
• They make no sense
  

 

[westwall]

Ummmm, it is the GOVERNMENT that is driving useless degrees. Not the private sector. You know, the government that you want to use to take money away from the private sector to give to the government to promulgate the useless degrees....Do you understand the vicious circle you are placing yourself in yet?

The government is currently involved in making money off of ignorant and naive young people. I want to change that. I want education to not be profit motivated.

No, colleges are doing that, with government help.

 

[DBA]

Why? Be specific.

Because a lot of jobs that don't require a lot of thinking are going to go away. As technology becomes more advanced we will need more educated professionals to stay ahead.

No job that requires thinking is going to go away. Jobs that require rote memorization are already being replaced by robots. Minimum wage jobs in the service industry are on the way out. That IS a fact. However, most people are incapable of learning advanced concepts in robotics, computer coding etc. There's a reason why computer coders get paid what they do. At least good ones. There is an army of crappy ones that don't make much because they aren't very good at it. Your problem is there is a vast ocean of average people. Average people do average things. They can't be trained to do high level work no matter how hard you try.

The fact is that everyone can't be a competent, successful brain surgeon. The left likes to think that anyone can do anything if just given the chance. That would be like saying that if given the training, everyone could run a 4.3 forty and dunk a basketball. It simply isn't the case. People have limitations both physically and mentally. Many jobs surpass the mental capacity of the masses, just as some surpass the physical capacity of the masses. We should all be treated equally, but that doesn't mean everyone is equivalently equipped. That is a pipe dream. Those who are endowed with certain innate abilities are typically rewarded. NFL guys do pretty well I would say. Brain surgeons do well. IMO, neither owes society more than the average as they aren't any more of a drag than the average and in fact, they are typically less dependent.

 

[progressive hunter]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

Not playing your stupid game, little man.

Beat it, I got better things to do than debate liars.

so youre running away because I proved your narrative wrong,,,

thats OK cause I am used to it,,

Nope. I'm ignoring you because you are a liar. As previously noted: beat it, kid. I've got better things to do than debate liars.

what did I lie about??

and what is a real wage???

Stop pestering the adults, liar.

what did I lie about and what are real wages???