How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[Leo123]

I prefer to point at Scandinavian countries. There's no doubt that they have a very different and very successful approach to education.

Yet folks come to America for the best University education. Our Universities are full of foreign immigrants.

 

[Richard-H]

Why? Be specific.

Because a lot of jobs that don't require a lot of thinking are going to go away. As technology becomes more advanced we will need more educated professionals to stay ahead.

No job that requires thinking is going to go away. Jobs that require rote memorization are already being replaced by robots. Minimum wage jobs in the service industry are on the way out. That IS a fact. However, most people are incapable of learning advanced concepts in robotics, computer coding etc. There's a reason why computer coders get paid what they do. At least good ones. There is an army of crappy ones that don't make much because they aren't very good at it. Your problem is there is a vast ocean of average people. Average people do average things. They can't be trained to do high level work no matter how hard you try.

The fact is that everyone can't be a competent, successful brain surgeon. The left likes to think that anyone can do anything if just given the chance. That would be like saying that if given the training, everyone could run a 4.3 forty and dunk a basketball. It simply isn't the case. People have limitations both physically and mentally. Many jobs surpass the mental capacity of the masses, just as some surpass the physical capacity of the masses. We should all be treated equally, but that doesn't mean everyone is equivalently equipped. That is a pipe dream. Those who are endowed with certain innate abilities are typically rewarded. NFL guys do pretty well I would say. Brain surgeons do well. IMO, neither owes society more than the average as they aren't any more of a drag than the average and in fact, they are typically less dependent.

However, keep in mind that we'd all die without ditch diggers.

We can survive without professional football, and for the most part without brain surgeons or computers.

We can not survive without sewage systems.

 

[Anomalism]

Yet folks come to America for the best education.

They would still do that if we payed for student tuition.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Why do you want to confiscate what is not yours and you did not earn?

I'm not interested in engaging this tired talking point for the millionth time.

Well, of course you're not interested.

But it's at the very heart of this issue, so saying you don't want to "engage" in discussing it is tantamount to admitting that WelfareQueen is 100% correct...

 

[DBA]

The fact is that everyone can't be a competent, successful brain surgeon. The left likes to think that anyone can do anything if just given the chance. That would be like saying that if given the training, everyone could run a 4.3 forty and dunk a basketball. It simply isn't the case. People have limitations both physically and mentally. Many jobs surpass the mental capacity of the masses, just as some surpass the physical capacity of the masses. We should all be treated equally, but that doesn't mean everyone is equivalently equipped. That is a pipe dream. Those who are endowed with certain innate abilities are typically rewarded. NFL guys do pretty well I would say. Brain surgeons do well. IMO, neither owes society more than the average as they aren't any more of a drag than the average and in fact, they are typically less dependent.

How many more people with potential would go to college if they could do it without paying for it themselves?

How many people wouldn't get the chance at all if government loans weren't given out like candy and people had to actually qualify for the "free" college? That is how it is in countries with "free" college. Everybody doesn't get to go. It is based on test scores(and of course who you know). It is NOT based on skin color or gender so those of you in favor of affirmative action would be in for a rude awakening if we implement a "free" system like in most European countries.

 

[Anomalism]

Well, of course you're not interested.

But it's at the very heart of this issue, so saying you don't want to "engage" in discussing it is tantamount to admitting that WelfareQueen is 100% correct...

I am fine with you thinking that.

 

[Circe]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

No. Nothing. Taxes are definitely theft. Rich people and people rapidly becoming rich are the greatest resource the human species has, especially these days when the money-getting is not about making war and taking over other people's resources while killing them, but about making EVERYONE richer. You are going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs: leftists always, always do.

 

[Richard-H]

Does anybody really believe that there is a correlation between people's wealth and the value of their contributions to society?

Seriously!?!?!

 

[Anomalism]

How many people wouldn't get the chance at all if government loans weren't given out like candy and people had to actually qualify for the "free" college? That is how it is in countries with "free" college. Everybody doesn't get to go. It is based on test scores(and of course who you know). It is NOT based on skin color or gender so those of you in favor of affirmative action would be in for a rude awakening if we implement a "free" system like in most European countries.

I don't want to waste resources on stupid people either. I would like for it to be very strict and immediately stop wasting resources on people that either aren't disciplined enough or aren't smart enough.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Well, of course you're not interested.

But it's at the very heart of this issue, so saying you don't want to "engage" in discussing it is tantamount to admitting that WelfareQueen is 100% correct...

I am fine with you thinking that.

And, as you're far too big a coward to do it, everyone else thinks that, too...

 

[DBA]

I prefer to point at Scandinavian countries. There's no doubt that they have a very different and very successful approach to education.

Yet folks come to America for the best University education. Our Universities are full of foreign immigrants.

Well, many come here because of the opportunities afforded to them AFTER they get their degrees. Their countries don't offer the same opportunities for success thanks to their Socialistic tendencies.

 

[citygator]

Then you have no point here!

I have gotten to the point where I recognize that at an intellectual level right vs left is just a disagreement about values and morality. That's why none of us ever really change minds here. We're all just barking at the moon.

Oh? I think it is very clear. You either value the work ethic, and support those who are willing to work to get ahead. Or you don't. I have a kid i was tutoring in geology. He's smart, likes learning, but didn't know what he wanted to do with his life. We talked and I suggested he look into a trade school. He found one in Idaho for a electrical lineman. It cost 17,000 and he didn't have the cash for that, though he could have taken out a loan. I told him I would cover it, and he could pay me back at zero interest when he got a job.

We made a handshake agreement and off he went. He had a job before he graduated, and had me paid back before 6 months had passed. Now, he's moved up to a higher paying job and at the ripe old age of 24 he's pulling down 150,000 per year. When he gets his journeyman certificate, he will up that to over 200,000 per year. I have done that several times over the years, and not once has the agreement been not paid back.

There are nephews and nieces that I won't do that for because I know they are not interested in work. They just want to keep going to school so that they don't have to work. one of them is quite the educated little idiot. He has three bachelors degrees, and mountain of debt he will never pay off, and he works at as a bartender.

Bullshit. The average Journeyman makes $55k. Yes there is a bell curve around that but to sell it like $200k is his earnings is likely an exaggeration. At $25 an hour (the going rate) he’d have to work 152 hours a week to earn that. Shit, working 80 hours a week he’s have to be pulling down $48 an hour. Bull shit.

You might want to look up what California High voltage grid specialists make. He pulls in 3,000 a week after taxes. Before he got the california gig he was in pennsylvania and yes, he was making 28 ish an hour out there.

View attachment 434800

Like i said, look up california. he joined the union about 2 months ago. And that is a ground worker, not a tower builder, just so you know.

Bull shit. I showed you the salary. You show me.

 

[Leo123]

Yet folks come to America for the best education.

They would still do that if we payed for student tuition.

Who seeks a degree from Scandinavia? And why?

 

[Richard-H]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

No. Nothing. Taxes are definitely theft. Rich people and people rapidly becoming rich are the greatest resource the human species has, especially these days when the money-getting is not about making war and taking over other people's resources while killing them, but about making EVERYONE richer. You are going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs: leftists always, always do.

Funny, I thought all the rich people sent their investment money off to China and left American workers - those that had actually built our economy - without a pot to piss in.

 

[progressive hunter]

they would need to violate their oath of office to do that,, along with taking fascist actions to force them,,,

Universal healthcare and universal government covered education opportunities are an inevitability. Prosperity will win. You're just in the way.

so you are not just a thief but a communist,,,

I and many other americans say,,
BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKER!!!

 

[Anomalism]

Who seeks a degree from Scandinavia? And why?

Did you read the post you quoted?

 

[Anomalism]

so you are not just a thief but a communist,,,

I and many other americans say,,
BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKER!!!

Oh there won't need to be a real fight. Conservatism is dying.

 

[Circe]

Funny, I thought all the rich people sent their investment money off to China and left American workers - those that had actually built our economy - without a pot to piss in.

There is something to that ---------- globalism isn't working for America. Or Europe, or anywhere but China and India and their ilkies.

Taxing the hell out of them isn't going to help THAT, however.

 

[progressive hunter]

so you are not just a thief but a communist,,,

I and many other americans say,,
BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKER!!!

Oh there won't need to be a real fight. Conservatism is dying.

I'm not a conservative,,,

and if you think there wont be a fight you are also a fucking idiot,,,

 

[Leo123]

Did you read the post you quoted?

Yes and the question is the same. Why would anyone seek out a Scandinavian degree? Think deeply instead of skimming the surface.