How the Government protects your rights

[bucs90]

The right didnt change Bucs. We oppose obama just like we did Clinton or Pelosi. You are right that a couple righties said some dumb things about rape and the like and for the most part those people were defeated or marginalized. Every election envolves nasty rhetoric. Nothing new has happened. And your constant whining about cops and firemen is old hat. Just as many dem governors and mayors have made the same cuts. As to govt employees yeah, the govt is bloated to the point of bankrupting us.....fuck em.

Cry more fraud boy

"Fuck em". Thats my point. The right did an AWFUL job of differentiating between fat bloated useless agencies like the GSA and that douchebag whose picture in the Vegas hot tub went viral, and the govt folks who do crucial, vital jobs in our country.

And yes, many think the pro-police thing has gotten old. Which is what is frustrating. Cops are dying on behalf of our country. They just do it inside our borders, protecting the same citizens. Yet, they get "fuck 'em" in response. Some GOP politicians, like Scott Walker in WI, exempted cops and firemen from his spending cuts. And that was the right thing to do. And yes, some Democrats cut police and fire spending, such as many California cities that were way too bloated to survive.

But the vast majority of the right wingers that I've seen have shared the same "fuck 'em" attitude that you just showed towards even the vital government employees.

So, I say in response, "Fuck you too". And I'm glad you all lost the election, and will laugh every fucking second of Obama's 2nd term at you all, and mock each of you on the way. And while Im at it, fuck the Democrats. Im not voting for them either.

I was all on board the gravy train to cut wasteful government spending. Check the last 4 years worth of posts. But when the right wing crossed that fine line and went into the mode of telling crucial govt employees like cops and firemen "fuck 'em", well, you lost me on that one.

And to the military folks out there: Beware. The right wing will turn on you too. Just give it another 2 years, max, and it'll happen.

 

[OKTexas]

They are at the top of the list a lot because a lot of people respond to them. There is a reason a lot of people respond- because I post topics a lot of people want to discuss.

Ah, the good ole "troll" comment. Its ok. I know you are in over your head trying to debate me, so I wont take it personal.

Lol

They want to discuss it eh? There is nothing to discuss beyond your class division nonsense.

More like they want to mock you. Look at the context of the responses you got. It's this way in every troll thread.

I am to the road runner,
As you are to the coyote!

I get an awful lot of thanks and reps to just be getting mocked. Dont be butt hurt just because a former right winger finally saw the bullshit that the RW is being fed. And guess what- thousands more are seeing that every month.

I think you tend to over estimate your powers of persuasion. Just say'n.

 

[bucs90]

Lol

They want to discuss it eh? There is nothing to discuss beyond your class division nonsense.

More like they want to mock you. Look at the context of the responses you got. It's this way in every troll thread.

I am to the road runner,
As you are to the coyote!

I get an awful lot of thanks and reps to just be getting mocked. Dont be butt hurt just because a former right winger finally saw the bullshit that the RW is being fed. And guess what- thousands more are seeing that every month.

I think you tend to over estimate your powers of persuasion. Just say'n.

So I cant persuade you to actually answer the question I asked? Would you abolish the FBI?

 

[OKTexas]

I am to the road runner,
As you are to the coyote!

I get an awful lot of thanks and reps to just be getting mocked. Dont be butt hurt just because a former right winger finally saw the bullshit that the RW is being fed. And guess what- thousands more are seeing that every month.

I think you tend to over estimate your powers of persuasion. Just say'n.

So I cant persuade you to actually answer the question I asked? Would you abolish the FBI?

Did you miss post #25, I didn't say it should be abolished, I just said it should be constrained to the law enforcement authority of the federal government. Ya might want to check it out.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The right didnt change Bucs. We oppose obama just like we did Clinton or Pelosi. You are right that a couple righties said some dumb things about rape and the like and for the most part those people were defeated or marginalized. Every election envolves nasty rhetoric. Nothing new has happened. And your constant whining about cops and firemen is old hat. Just as many dem governors and mayors have made the same cuts. As to govt employees yeah, the govt is bloated to the point of bankrupting us.....fuck em.

Cry more fraud boy

"Fuck em". Thats my point. The right did an AWFUL job of differentiating between fat bloated useless agencies like the GSA and that douchebag whose picture in the Vegas hot tub went viral, and the govt folks who do crucial, vital jobs in our country.

And yes, many think the pro-police thing has gotten old. Which is what is frustrating. Cops are dying on behalf of our country. They just do it inside our borders, protecting the same citizens. Yet, they get "fuck 'em" in response. Some GOP politicians, like Scott Walker in WI, exempted cops and firemen from his spending cuts. And that was the right thing to do. And yes, some Democrats cut police and fire spending, such as many California cities that were way too bloated to survive.

But the vast majority of the right wingers that I've seen have shared the same "fuck 'em" attitude that you just showed towards even the vital government employees.

So, I say in response, "Fuck you too". And I'm glad you all lost the election, and will laugh every fucking second of Obama's 2nd term at you all, and mock each of you on the way. And while Im at it, fuck the Democrats. Im not voting for them either.

I was all on board the gravy train to cut wasteful government spending. Check the last 4 years worth of posts. But when the right wing crossed that fine line and went into the mode of telling crucial govt employees like cops and firemen "fuck 'em", well, you lost me on that one.

And to the military folks out there: Beware. The right wing will turn on you too. Just give it another 2 years, max, and it'll happen.

You're just too fucking stupid for your own good. Cops and firefighters get paid by L9CAL MUNICIPALITIES. Most of the larger cities facing major budget issues are run by dems. If the money isn't there it isnt there idiot.

And the right is TRYING to rescue the gi bill that educates our military. Its currently being threatened by the sequestration that OBAMA refuses to allow the right to give him the power of discretion over.

Govt workers or cops or teachers or who ever else your heart bleeds for isnt being cut because they arent liked. They are being cut because govts are too fucking bloated to continue paying. Has nothing to do with who is in power and everything to do with who WAS in power and what they did with that power.

Are you just really so stupid you cant grasp this FACT? Or are you just a I suspected a one line one brain cell hack

 

[bucs90]

I think you tend to over estimate your powers of persuasion. Just say'n.

So I cant persuade you to actually answer the question I asked? Would you abolish the FBI?

Did you miss post #25, I didn't say it should be abolished, I just said it should be constrained to the law enforcement authority of the federal government. Ya might want to check it out.

The Secret Service does counterfeit money.
The CIA and military do treason.

Other than that, what can/should the FBI do?

So- you do agree that the FBI should be forbidden to take the lead agency role in child abduction cases, which they do on 99.9% of child abduction cases???? That would be the Constitutional way of doing business.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The federal government has the power to make laws, it therefore has the power to maintain a means of enforcing those laws.

That was funny.

And obviously irrefutable.

It is about as far from being irrefutable as it is possible to get.

 

[bucs90]

The right didnt change Bucs. We oppose obama just like we did Clinton or Pelosi. You are right that a couple righties said some dumb things about rape and the like and for the most part those people were defeated or marginalized. Every election envolves nasty rhetoric. Nothing new has happened. And your constant whining about cops and firemen is old hat. Just as many dem governors and mayors have made the same cuts. As to govt employees yeah, the govt is bloated to the point of bankrupting us.....fuck em.

Cry more fraud boy

"Fuck em". Thats my point. The right did an AWFUL job of differentiating between fat bloated useless agencies like the GSA and that douchebag whose picture in the Vegas hot tub went viral, and the govt folks who do crucial, vital jobs in our country.

And yes, many think the pro-police thing has gotten old. Which is what is frustrating. Cops are dying on behalf of our country. They just do it inside our borders, protecting the same citizens. Yet, they get "fuck 'em" in response. Some GOP politicians, like Scott Walker in WI, exempted cops and firemen from his spending cuts. And that was the right thing to do. And yes, some Democrats cut police and fire spending, such as many California cities that were way too bloated to survive.

But the vast majority of the right wingers that I've seen have shared the same "fuck 'em" attitude that you just showed towards even the vital government employees.

So, I say in response, "Fuck you too". And I'm glad you all lost the election, and will laugh every fucking second of Obama's 2nd term at you all, and mock each of you on the way. And while Im at it, fuck the Democrats. Im not voting for them either.

I was all on board the gravy train to cut wasteful government spending. Check the last 4 years worth of posts. But when the right wing crossed that fine line and went into the mode of telling crucial govt employees like cops and firemen "fuck 'em", well, you lost me on that one.

And to the military folks out there: Beware. The right wing will turn on you too. Just give it another 2 years, max, and it'll happen.

You're just too fucking stupid for your own good. Cops and firefighters get paid by L9CAL MUNICIPALITIES. Most of the larger cities facing major budget issues are run by dems. If the money isn't there it isnt there idiot.

And the right is TRYING to rescue the gi bill that educates our military. Its currently being threatened by the sequestration that OBAMA refuses to allow the right to give him the power of discretion over.

Govt workers or cops or teachers or who ever else your heart bleeds for isnt being cut because they arent liked. They are being cut because govts are too fucking bloated to continue paying. Has nothing to do with who is in power and everything to do with who WAS in power and what they did with that power.

Are you just really so stupid you cant grasp this FACT? Or are you just a I suspected a one line one brain cell hack

Many poverty stricken areas have their PD's funded by Federal grant money, since their local jurisdiction is, well, poor. And you know that crazy idea that poor folk deserve police protection too, right?

And, you have severely mistaken something. I acknowledge that many cuts are out of pure necessity. Some aren't. Some are....."to send a message", as GOP Gov. Nikki Haley said about her state cops pay cut, although the budget covered their pay WITHOUT a tax increase (BTW, she lost the following lawsuit, and the state troopers got their fair pay, which is a starting salary of 30K).

It wasnt so much as having to bite the bullet a little bit. It was the attitude. It always is about the attitude. And while its true Romney barely said anything about cops in his campaign (most campaigns at the federal level dont), the local Republicans all across the country took an arrogant, even aggressive, attitude towards cops, firemen, and especially teachers. The classic "Fuck 'em" attitude- which you yourself just used a few posts ago.

So, ok. Fuck us? You you too. I'm gonna laugh when Obama raises your taxes. Karma is a bitch.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The federal government has the power to make laws, it therefore has the power to maintain a means of enforcing those laws.

Yes but our government cannot just decide to investigate you without probable cause. That is out of their authority and that is what they purpose to do.

And who pray tell should I depend on to protect my right of privacy in that situation?

If you depend on anyone but yourself you might as well just post everything on a billboard somewhere.

 

[bucs90]

Yes but our government cannot just decide to investigate you without probable cause. That is out of their authority and that is what they purpose to do.

And who pray tell should I depend on to protect my right of privacy in that situation?

If you depend on anyone but yourself you might as well just post everything on a billboard somewhere.

Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Al Qaida operatives, Iranian spies, Russian spies, Hezbollah cells, etc, etc, etc.......are all funded through domestic banking accounts.

So they need to have access EVERY American's information, without probable cause?

Well you could petition the Court to intervene on constitutional grounds to stop such actions,

but then you'd be depending on the government, which people like Windbag say is not necessary.

The government sucks at protecting itself, why should I trust it to protect me?

Cisco IP Phones Vulnerable - IEEE Spectrum

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Statism", I just read all the nonsense you posted in response on page 3 of this thread. To save the rest of people on here some grief, Im not gonna quote all the nonsense. You get into some really- how should I say it- Ron Paulish nonsense about rights being wrongs if someone doesnt like the right and wrongs being right in the views of islanders and...well, honestly, I couldnt make sense of much of that jibberish. I tried giving you an easy metaphor, with an island, 1,000 residents, and the inevitable system of governance that would arise in that situation. Did you not ever read Lord of the Flies? The only other example I could give is a football game with no coaches and no referees. Imagine that: The Patriots vs 49ers.....but no coaches, and no referees. How civil would that game be? Same with humanity. We need someone to be in charge for the sake of civility.

It boils down to this: When large groups of people get together, someone or some groups will always gain power and govern the others. That is true throughout human history. Hell, its even true in the animal kingdom. Just look at bees. Or ants.

Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge.

I think our way is pretty good relative to everyone else's. Nothing will ever be perfect. And I've come to realize the person I'm debating on this has such a radical libertarian view, that we'll never have a normal debate, and you'll never, ever be happy in life as a result of your world view- because it flies in the face of human nature.

Who is in charge of the Quakers?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"Fuck em". Thats my point. The right did an AWFUL job of differentiating between fat bloated useless agencies like the GSA and that douchebag whose picture in the Vegas hot tub went viral, and the govt folks who do crucial, vital jobs in our country.

And yes, many think the pro-police thing has gotten old. Which is what is frustrating. Cops are dying on behalf of our country. They just do it inside our borders, protecting the same citizens. Yet, they get "fuck 'em" in response. Some GOP politicians, like Scott Walker in WI, exempted cops and firemen from his spending cuts. And that was the right thing to do. And yes, some Democrats cut police and fire spending, such as many California cities that were way too bloated to survive.

But the vast majority of the right wingers that I've seen have shared the same "fuck 'em" attitude that you just showed towards even the vital government employees.

So, I say in response, "Fuck you too". And I'm glad you all lost the election, and will laugh every fucking second of Obama's 2nd term at you all, and mock each of you on the way. And while Im at it, fuck the Democrats. Im not voting for them either.

I was all on board the gravy train to cut wasteful government spending. Check the last 4 years worth of posts. But when the right wing crossed that fine line and went into the mode of telling crucial govt employees like cops and firemen "fuck 'em", well, you lost me on that one.

And to the military folks out there: Beware. The right wing will turn on you too. Just give it another 2 years, max, and it'll happen.

You're just too fucking stupid for your own good. Cops and firefighters get paid by L9CAL MUNICIPALITIES. Most of the larger cities facing major budget issues are run by dems. If the money isn't there it isnt there idiot.

And the right is TRYING to rescue the gi bill that educates our military. Its currently being threatened by the sequestration that OBAMA refuses to allow the right to give him the power of discretion over.

Govt workers or cops or teachers or who ever else your heart bleeds for isnt being cut because they arent liked. They are being cut because govts are too fucking bloated to continue paying. Has nothing to do with who is in power and everything to do with who WAS in power and what they did with that power.

Are you just really so stupid you cant grasp this FACT? Or are you just a I suspected a one line one brain cell hack

Many poverty stricken areas have their PD's funded by Federal grant money, since their local jurisdiction is, well, poor. And you know that crazy idea that poor folk deserve police protection too, right?

And, you have severely mistaken something. I acknowledge that many cuts are out of pure necessity. Some aren't. Some are....."to send a message", as GOP Gov. Nikki Haley said about her state cops pay cut, although the budget covered their pay WITHOUT a tax increase (BTW, she lost the following lawsuit, and the state troopers got their fair pay, which is a starting salary of 30K).

It wasnt so much as having to bite the bullet a little bit. It was the attitude. It always is about the attitude. And while its true Romney barely said anything about cops in his campaign (most campaigns at the federal level dont), the local Republicans all across the country took an arrogant, even aggressive, attitude towards cops, firemen, and especially teachers. The classic "Fuck 'em" attitude- which you yourself just used a few posts ago.

So, ok. Fuck us? You you too. I'm gonna laugh when Obama raises your taxes. Karma is a bitch.

Obama has already raised my taxes along with everyone elses. The fact that you find joy in it cements your status as a hack.

Good day loser

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Rights exist despite the government, entitlements exist because of the government, why is that so hard to comprehend?

So, would classify property as a right or an entitlement. or does it depend on the situation?

It depends on the property.

 

[bucs90]

"Statism", I just read all the nonsense you posted in response on page 3 of this thread. To save the rest of people on here some grief, Im not gonna quote all the nonsense. You get into some really- how should I say it- Ron Paulish nonsense about rights being wrongs if someone doesnt like the right and wrongs being right in the views of islanders and...well, honestly, I couldnt make sense of much of that jibberish. I tried giving you an easy metaphor, with an island, 1,000 residents, and the inevitable system of governance that would arise in that situation. Did you not ever read Lord of the Flies? The only other example I could give is a football game with no coaches and no referees. Imagine that: The Patriots vs 49ers.....but no coaches, and no referees. How civil would that game be? Same with humanity. We need someone to be in charge for the sake of civility.

It boils down to this: When large groups of people get together, someone or some groups will always gain power and govern the others. That is true throughout human history. Hell, its even true in the animal kingdom. Just look at bees. Or ants.

Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge.

I think our way is pretty good relative to everyone else's. Nothing will ever be perfect. And I've come to realize the person I'm debating on this has such a radical libertarian view, that we'll never have a normal debate, and you'll never, ever be happy in life as a result of your world view- because it flies in the face of human nature.

Who is in charge of the Quakers?

It depends on who or what you believe in. They say God directs them to their thoughts, that they then contribute in their governance meetings, which they call a worship. They all end up coming to the same conclusion, without voting, due to God leading them all to the same conclusion. So, God governs them. And it's easy, since you are grouping together a relatively small group of extremely like-minded folks who inevitably will see the topic through very similar perspectives.

Americas is extremely diverse. So unless you propose breaking up the union, we cant govern the country the way the Quakers govern their church.

Oh, and the Quakers are also governed by the cops in whatever jurisdiction they live in. Forgot that one. Thats why they arent allowed to rape each other......by God or the local government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That would be the Necessary and Proper Clause

"can any thing be more absurd, more arrogant, or more pernicious to the peace of Society, than for self created bodies, forming themselves into permanent Censors, and under the shade of Night in a conclave, resolving that acts of Congress which have undergone the most deliberate, and solemn discussion by the Representatives of the people, chosen for the express purpose, and bringing with them from the different parts of the Union the sense of their Constituents, endeavouring as far as the nature of the thing will admit, to form that will into Laws for the government of the whole; I say, under these circumstances, for a self created, permanent body, (for no one denies the right of the people to meet occasionally, to petition for, or to remonstrate against, any Act of the Legislature &ca) to declare that this act is unconstitutional, and that act is pregnant of mischief; and that all who vote contrary to their dogmas are actuated by selfish motives, or under foreign influence; nay in plain terms are traiters to their Country, is such a stretch of arrogant presumption as is not to be reconciled with laudable motives: especially when we see the same set of men endeavouring to destroy all confidence in the Administration, by arraigning all its acts, without knowing on what ground, or with what information it proceeds and this without regard to decency or truth."

-- George Washington; from letter to Burges Ball (Sept. 25, 1794)

The necessary and proper clause only applies to enacting enumerated powers, nothing else. Care to try again.

So you'd support abolishing the FBI????

You do know the FBI is the lead agency on almost all child kidnapping cases, since most state and local PD's dont have the manpower or budget to do a nationwide manhunt?

But screw the kids, right? The enumerated powers dont allow for an FBI.

OH, the FBI also does almost all cases of identity theft, since they cross state lines. Again...those state and city PD's dont have the manpower or funding to send detectives from California to Florida to Jersey and Illinois to hunt down identity fraud thieves. And good luck trying to get cops in, say, Florida, to use their resources to do work on behalf of a victim in California.

But hey, we have enumerated powers to care about. Abolish the FBI, right?

You bought into their hype. Most child abduction cases are handled by local and/or state authorities because most child abductions are not nationwide affairs. When they are, the FBI steps in to get the glory, but the work is still done by local agencies. As for identity theft, no one pursues most cases of that. The ones that do draw federal involvement are actually handled by the the Secret Service, not the FBI.

Nice attempt to give the fBi all the credit for the work of other people, I understand that is the reason most police hate the Feebs.

 

[bucs90]

You're just too fucking stupid for your own good. Cops and firefighters get paid by L9CAL MUNICIPALITIES. Most of the larger cities facing major budget issues are run by dems. If the money isn't there it isnt there idiot.

And the right is TRYING to rescue the gi bill that educates our military. Its currently being threatened by the sequestration that OBAMA refuses to allow the right to give him the power of discretion over.

Govt workers or cops or teachers or who ever else your heart bleeds for isnt being cut because they arent liked. They are being cut because govts are too fucking bloated to continue paying. Has nothing to do with who is in power and everything to do with who WAS in power and what they did with that power.

Are you just really so stupid you cant grasp this FACT? Or are you just a I suspected a one line one brain cell hack

Many poverty stricken areas have their PD's funded by Federal grant money, since their local jurisdiction is, well, poor. And you know that crazy idea that poor folk deserve police protection too, right?

And, you have severely mistaken something. I acknowledge that many cuts are out of pure necessity. Some aren't. Some are....."to send a message", as GOP Gov. Nikki Haley said about her state cops pay cut, although the budget covered their pay WITHOUT a tax increase (BTW, she lost the following lawsuit, and the state troopers got their fair pay, which is a starting salary of 30K).

It wasnt so much as having to bite the bullet a little bit. It was the attitude. It always is about the attitude. And while its true Romney barely said anything about cops in his campaign (most campaigns at the federal level dont), the local Republicans all across the country took an arrogant, even aggressive, attitude towards cops, firemen, and especially teachers. The classic "Fuck 'em" attitude- which you yourself just used a few posts ago.

So, ok. Fuck us? You you too. I'm gonna laugh when Obama raises your taxes. Karma is a bitch.

Obama has already raised my taxes along with everyone elses. The fact that you find joy in it cements your status as a hack.

Good day loser

Good day then, you getting your taxes raised just made my night. Prick.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

By the way, before you start commenting about Biblical times and what did, or did not, exist I would suggest you read Leviticus. There were plenty of rights that were protected under the system of laws that God set up, which is why Samuel argued against Israel having a king in 2 Samuel 8. If you read that you will see he is essentially the same points you are about kings.

When everyone did what was right in his own eyes, and occasionally burned their daughters because they won a battle?

Nothing like that happens in modern day America, does it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And who pray tell should I depend on to protect my right of privacy in that situation?

If you depend on anyone but yourself you might as well just post everything on a billboard somewhere.

Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?

They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.

Why do you ask?

 

[bucs90]

The necessary and proper clause only applies to enacting enumerated powers, nothing else. Care to try again.

So you'd support abolishing the FBI????

You do know the FBI is the lead agency on almost all child kidnapping cases, since most state and local PD's dont have the manpower or budget to do a nationwide manhunt?

But screw the kids, right? The enumerated powers dont allow for an FBI.

OH, the FBI also does almost all cases of identity theft, since they cross state lines. Again...those state and city PD's dont have the manpower or funding to send detectives from California to Florida to Jersey and Illinois to hunt down identity fraud thieves. And good luck trying to get cops in, say, Florida, to use their resources to do work on behalf of a victim in California.

But hey, we have enumerated powers to care about. Abolish the FBI, right?

You bought into their hype. Most child abduction cases are handled by local and/or state authorities because most child abductions are not nationwide affairs. When they are, the FBI steps in to get the glory, but the work is still done by local agencies. As for identity theft, no one pursues most cases of that. The ones that do draw federal involvement are actually handled by the the Secret Service, not the FBI.

Nice attempt to give the fBi all the credit for the work of other people, I understand that is the reason most police hate the Feebs.

Thats not true. All child abduction cases are initially taken by the locals, and the Feds are immediately notified so that the national Amber Alert can be started. The majority of child abduction cases......arent child abduction cases. They are custody disputes or parental disagreements. TRUE child abduction cases, where a stranger kidnaps a child with no intent to return the child, for malicous reasons, are fairly uncommon, BUT, the FBI is the lead agency on all of those. Thats simply a fact.

As for identity theft, all of them are pursued. Most just arent solved because they dead end very quickly. And the FBI does those, not the Secret Service. SS does counterfeit money. FBI does white collar crime, which is the office ID theft is usually directed to.

But you are correct in that the FBI, but more so the DEA and ATF, are notorious for swooping in at the last minute to take credit for all the work a local PD did on a big case. But when it comes to kidnapped children, no one is better than the FBI.