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"Statism", I just read all the nonsense you posted in response on page 3 of this thread. To save the rest of people on here some grief, Im not gonna quote all the nonsense. You get into some really- how should I say it- Ron Paulish nonsense about rights being wrongs if someone doesnt like the right and wrongs being right in the views of islanders and...well, honestly, I couldnt make sense of much of that jibberish. I tried giving you an easy metaphor, with an island, 1,000 residents, and the inevitable system of governance that would arise in that situation. Did you not ever read Lord of the Flies? The only other example I could give is a football game with no coaches and no referees. Imagine that: The Patriots vs 49ers.....but no coaches, and no referees. How civil would that game be? Same with humanity. We need someone to be in charge for the sake of civility.
It boils down to this: When large groups of people get together, someone or some groups will always gain power and govern the others. That is true throughout human history. Hell, its even true in the animal kingdom. Just look at bees. Or ants.
Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge.
I think our way is pretty good relative to everyone else's. Nothing will ever be perfect. And I've come to realize the person I'm debating on this has such a radical libertarian view, that we'll never have a normal debate, and you'll never, ever be happy in life as a result of your world view- because it flies in the face of human nature.
Who is in charge of the Quakers?
It depends on who or what you believe in. They say God directs them to their thoughts, that they then contribute in their governance meetings, which they call a worship. They all end up coming to the same conclusion, without voting, due to God leading them all to the same conclusion. So, God governs them. And it's easy, since you are grouping together a relatively small group of extremely like-minded folks who inevitably will see the topic through very similar perspectives.
Americas is extremely diverse. So unless you propose breaking up the union, we cant govern the country the way the Quakers govern their church.
Oh, and the Quakers are also governed by the cops in whatever jurisdiction they live in. Forgot that one. Thats why they arent allowed to rape each other......by God or the local government.
If you depend on anyone but yourself you might as well just post everything on a billboard somewhere.
Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?
They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.
Why do you ask?
So I cant persuade you to actually answer the question I asked? Would you abolish the FBI?
Did you miss post #25, I didn't say it should be abolished, I just said it should be constrained to the law enforcement authority of the federal government. Ya might want to check it out.
The Secret Service does counterfeit money.
The CIA and military do treason.
Other than that, what can/should the FBI do?
So- you do agree that the FBI should be forbidden to take the lead agency role in child abduction cases, which they do on 99.9% of child abduction cases???? That would be the Constitutional way of doing business.
Who is in charge of the Quakers?
It depends on who or what you believe in. They say God directs them to their thoughts, that they then contribute in their governance meetings, which they call a worship. They all end up coming to the same conclusion, without voting, due to God leading them all to the same conclusion. So, God governs them. And it's easy, since you are grouping together a relatively small group of extremely like-minded folks who inevitably will see the topic through very similar perspectives.
Americas is extremely diverse. So unless you propose breaking up the union, we cant govern the country the way the Quakers govern their church.
Oh, and the Quakers are also governed by the cops in whatever jurisdiction they live in. Forgot that one. Thats why they arent allowed to rape each other......by God or the local government.
I quote, "Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge."
Since you just admitted I found a real world working exception to your rule I proved my point, there is no need for someone to be in charge.
If you depend on anyone but yourself you might as well just post everything on a billboard somewhere.
Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?
They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.
Why do you ask?
So you'd support abolishing the FBI????
You do know the FBI is the lead agency on almost all child kidnapping cases, since most state and local PD's dont have the manpower or budget to do a nationwide manhunt?
But screw the kids, right? The enumerated powers dont allow for an FBI.
OH, the FBI also does almost all cases of identity theft, since they cross state lines. Again...those state and city PD's dont have the manpower or funding to send detectives from California to Florida to Jersey and Illinois to hunt down identity fraud thieves. And good luck trying to get cops in, say, Florida, to use their resources to do work on behalf of a victim in California.
But hey, we have enumerated powers to care about. Abolish the FBI, right?
You bought into their hype. Most child abduction cases are handled by local and/or state authorities because most child abductions are not nationwide affairs. When they are, the FBI steps in to get the glory, but the work is still done by local agencies. As for identity theft, no one pursues most cases of that. The ones that do draw federal involvement are actually handled by the the Secret Service, not the FBI.
Nice attempt to give the fBi all the credit for the work of other people, I understand that is the reason most police hate the Feebs.
Thats not true. All child abduction cases are initially taken by the locals, and the Feds are immediately notified so that the national Amber Alert can be started. The majority of child abduction cases......arent child abduction cases. They are custody disputes or parental disagreements. TRUE child abduction cases, where a stranger kidnaps a child with no intent to return the child, for malicous reasons, are fairly uncommon, BUT, the FBI is the lead agency on all of those. Thats simply a fact.
As for identity theft, all of them are pursued. Most just arent solved because they dead end very quickly. And the FBI does those, not the Secret Service. SS does counterfeit money. FBI does white collar crime, which is the office ID theft is usually directed to.
But you are correct in that the FBI, but more so the DEA and ATF, are notorious for swooping in at the last minute to take credit for all the work a local PD did on a big case. But when it comes to kidnapped children, no one is better than the FBI.
Did you miss post #25, I didn't say it should be abolished, I just said it should be constrained to the law enforcement authority of the federal government. Ya might want to check it out.
The Secret Service does counterfeit money.
The CIA and military do treason.
Other than that, what can/should the FBI do?
So- you do agree that the FBI should be forbidden to take the lead agency role in child abduction cases, which they do on 99.9% of child abduction cases???? That would be the Constitutional way of doing business.
Yep, the Constitutions says crimes should be adjudicated by the authorities where a crime occurs. BTW the CIA is an intelligence agency, not law enforcement, but the FBI would have authority to investigate civilians who engage in espionage or other acts of treason, the military would not have jurisdiction in those cases.
Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?
They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.
Why do you ask?
Then she would be breaking the law. As possession of a pistol by someone under 18 would be a felony.
Now....want to try that answer again? OH, and tell your daughter under 18 to stop packing heat. Its illegal- and for good reason.
You bought into their hype. Most child abduction cases are handled by local and/or state authorities because most child abductions are not nationwide affairs. When they are, the FBI steps in to get the glory, but the work is still done by local agencies. As for identity theft, no one pursues most cases of that. The ones that do draw federal involvement are actually handled by the the Secret Service, not the FBI.
Nice attempt to give the fBi all the credit for the work of other people, I understand that is the reason most police hate the Feebs.
Thats not true. All child abduction cases are initially taken by the locals, and the Feds are immediately notified so that the national Amber Alert can be started. The majority of child abduction cases......arent child abduction cases. They are custody disputes or parental disagreements. TRUE child abduction cases, where a stranger kidnaps a child with no intent to return the child, for malicous reasons, are fairly uncommon, BUT, the FBI is the lead agency on all of those. Thats simply a fact.
As for identity theft, all of them are pursued. Most just arent solved because they dead end very quickly. And the FBI does those, not the Secret Service. SS does counterfeit money. FBI does white collar crime, which is the office ID theft is usually directed to.
But you are correct in that the FBI, but more so the DEA and ATF, are notorious for swooping in at the last minute to take credit for all the work a local PD did on a big case. But when it comes to kidnapped children, no one is better than the FBI.
The FBI does not issue Amber Alerts, they are a part of NCIC.
It depends on who or what you believe in. They say God directs them to their thoughts, that they then contribute in their governance meetings, which they call a worship. They all end up coming to the same conclusion, without voting, due to God leading them all to the same conclusion. So, God governs them. And it's easy, since you are grouping together a relatively small group of extremely like-minded folks who inevitably will see the topic through very similar perspectives.
Americas is extremely diverse. So unless you propose breaking up the union, we cant govern the country the way the Quakers govern their church.
Oh, and the Quakers are also governed by the cops in whatever jurisdiction they live in. Forgot that one. Thats why they arent allowed to rape each other......by God or the local government.
I quote, "Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge."
Since you just admitted I found a real world working exception to your rule I proved my point, there is no need for someone to be in charge.
I did? When? How did you find an exception?
If Quakers are allowed to steal, murder, drive recklessly and break all the other laws of the local government.......then hey, maybe I need to convert to Quakerism.
Murder is illegal in Quaker neighborhoods, right? Is rape? Is burglary? What about underage porn? Is that stuff legal or illegal in a Quaker neighborhood? Who enforces it?
They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.
Why do you ask?
Then she would be breaking the law. As possession of a pistol by someone under 18 would be a felony.
Now....want to try that answer again? OH, and tell your daughter under 18 to stop packing heat. Its illegal- and for good reason.
She took it from the guy who attacked them. I bet the cops would go along with that story, and not lose any sleep over it.
I quote, "Anyway, whether its a government, or religious tribe, or drug cartel....someone is going to be in charge."
Since you just admitted I found a real world working exception to your rule I proved my point, there is no need for someone to be in charge.
I did? When? How did you find an exception?
If Quakers are allowed to steal, murder, drive recklessly and break all the other laws of the local government.......then hey, maybe I need to convert to Quakerism.
Murder is illegal in Quaker neighborhoods, right? Is rape? Is burglary? What about underage porn? Is that stuff legal or illegal in a Quaker neighborhood? Who enforces it?
You know less than you think about Quakers, they live all over the country, not in small, closed communities. They are in almost every major city, you really should get out more.
Since you are obviously a hardcore libertarian who believes we should depend on no one but yourself for protection.........can I ask: If your 15 year old daughter and her friend walked to the mall for a nice teenage night of freedom, and some 25 year old thugs had an eye on them as they walked to the car, who should they call? You, 20 miles away? Or 911, 1-3 miles away?
They should use the gun I gave her because, when seconds count, cops are minutes away.
Why do you ask?
What if your daughter is a Quaker?
Thats not true. All child abduction cases are initially taken by the locals, and the Feds are immediately notified so that the national Amber Alert can be started. The majority of child abduction cases......arent child abduction cases. They are custody disputes or parental disagreements. TRUE child abduction cases, where a stranger kidnaps a child with no intent to return the child, for malicous reasons, are fairly uncommon, BUT, the FBI is the lead agency on all of those. Thats simply a fact.
As for identity theft, all of them are pursued. Most just arent solved because they dead end very quickly. And the FBI does those, not the Secret Service. SS does counterfeit money. FBI does white collar crime, which is the office ID theft is usually directed to.
But you are correct in that the FBI, but more so the DEA and ATF, are notorious for swooping in at the last minute to take credit for all the work a local PD did on a big case. But when it comes to kidnapped children, no one is better than the FBI.
The FBI does not issue Amber Alerts, they are a part of NCIC.
Oh Christ O' Mighty. Any PD can issue an Amber Alert. The FBI, too, has NCIC access. The FBI's mission is to expedite the information nationally, to all local FBI field offices, to get those field offices to push the Amber Alert to local TV, to begin making fliers for that area should the intel lead them to believe they are in that part of the country.
I should charge you for this lesson.
Then she would be breaking the law. As possession of a pistol by someone under 18 would be a felony.
Now....want to try that answer again? OH, and tell your daughter under 18 to stop packing heat. Its illegal- and for good reason.
She took it from the guy who attacked them. I bet the cops would go along with that story, and not lose any sleep over it.
I know I would have. Bet they would too.
But what about when she is showing it off to the cute 17 year old guy from the football team she is trying to impress?
There is a reason people under 18 aren't allowed to carry guns. But let me guess, your daughter is a good girl, raised right. She'd never try to impress a boy from school
I did? When? How did you find an exception?
If Quakers are allowed to steal, murder, drive recklessly and break all the other laws of the local government.......then hey, maybe I need to convert to Quakerism.
Murder is illegal in Quaker neighborhoods, right? Is rape? Is burglary? What about underage porn? Is that stuff legal or illegal in a Quaker neighborhood? Who enforces it?
You know less than you think about Quakers, they live all over the country, not in small, closed communities. They are in almost every major city, you really should get out more.
So you admit that, since they live all over the place, then they are subject to the local laws of where they live, just like the rest of us.......and you in fact didnt find an exception to my past statement like you thought you did???
The Secret Service does counterfeit money.
The CIA and military do treason.
Other than that, what can/should the FBI do?
So- you do agree that the FBI should be forbidden to take the lead agency role in child abduction cases, which they do on 99.9% of child abduction cases???? That would be the Constitutional way of doing business.
Yep, the Constitutions says crimes should be adjudicated by the authorities where a crime occurs. BTW the CIA is an intelligence agency, not law enforcement, but the FBI would have authority to investigate civilians who engage in espionage or other acts of treason, the military would not have jurisdiction in those cases.
Treason is often a spy or warfare incident, which is why I said the CIA and military handle those. But sure, if it were ever put to trial in a federal court, an FBI agent would have to file the charges.
So, you do agree we should abolish all FBI operations aside from treason? No more child abduction investigations. No more ID theft. No more counter-terrorism on US soil charges. No more drug or banking charges? End the FBI as we know it, and let the state and city cops handle all crime? I truly hope you aren't suggesting that.
Oh, and if you are, we'd also have to get rid of the elite HRT (Hostate Rescue Team), the FBI's national SWAT team, which specializes in many things, but is by far the most elite Hostage Rescue unit in the nation, most of whom are ex spec ops and ex full-time civilian major swat unit members. We'd have to get rid of them, and let regular SWAT teams at whatever city handle it. (FBI HRT did the Alabama child hostage rescue last month, with incredible success).
Tetraodontidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaFun Fact
Pufferfish are generally believed to be the second most poisonous vertebrates in the world, after the golden poison frog. Certain internal organs, such as liver, and sometimes the skin, are highly toxic to most animals when eaten; nevertheless, the meat of some species is considered a delicacy in Japan (as 河豚, pronounced as fugu), Korea (as bok), and China (as 河豚 hétún) when prepared by chefs who know which part is safe to eat and in what quantity.
Even the primates have the most basic understanding of rights. But we'll put religion aside for the moment.
Let us examine the right of self defense. It is exercised in every form of life found on this planet. It does not require a government to give this life the right to defend itself. Some life will even use deadly means to defend its own life. The puffer fish will inflate into a ball of deadly poisonous spines that will kill most things that try to eat it.
Tetraodontidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaFun Fact
Pufferfish are generally believed to be the second most poisonous vertebrates in the world, after the golden poison frog. Certain internal organs, such as liver, and sometimes the skin, are highly toxic to most animals when eaten; nevertheless, the meat of some species is considered a delicacy in Japan (as 河豚, pronounced as fugu), Korea (as bok), and China (as 河豚 hétún) when prepared by chefs who know which part is safe to eat and in what quantity.
However, back to the topic. Contrary to some quarters of Libertarian belief of Democrat government construct for the betterment of all, the puffer fish too has no government, imaginary or otherwise. From whence do they derive these rights you may ask?
Well, that answer is simple. They are what is termed, "Natural Rights".
Now, before the rest of you get too confused -- do not confuse the fact that in a game of survival, if you happen to be eaten, then your rights cease to exist, or that is it somehow proof that the rights never existed to begin with. Failure to ensure the rights you have does not negate that they exist, or that you should not attempt to exercise those rights in the face of real threats to those rights. Threats such as an overreaching government that illicitly meddles in the affairs of citizens for the nefarious purpose of gaining more power.
Are we clear now?
