CDZ How to Use Tariffs as Weapons and Not Hurt Yourself...

[Crepitus]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Mexico won't pay the tariffs, we will.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Mexico pays no tariffs. The importing U.S. corporation does, and it passes the cost on to the consumer.

Let the total tariff be 100%. 40% goes into the general budget, 20% for the wall, and 40% flows into some rebate to consumers that will require some decent-sized bureaucracy to calculate and implement. That still saddles U.S. consumers with 60% of the tariffs. If that's "protecting" U.S. consumers, I don't want to know what will happen to them under Trump.

Yeah, none of the politicians and pundits points out how to protect consumers according to Flac - because it's not working.

You could, of course, quietly pay back the tariffs to the supermarket chains / auto makers / etc., who would then leave the prices where they were before, and then consumers really are protected. How about that? Except for some financial wizards who would figure out a way to get the tariff rebate, twice or thrice, without ever having paid any tariff.

Exactly. The corporations will pay more to have the goods from Mexico come into this country, but then will pass the added expense on to the consumer.

Sorry, but corporations and their CEO's aren't interested in making less money.

 

[BlackFlag]

Was Econ 101 not a requirement back when you old farts were younger?

 

[joaquinmiller]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

 

[BlackFlag]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

You forgot to factor in some voodoo to balance the ledger

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods. We just want the damn tariff money until they take our diplomatic requests under IMMEDIATE consideration.. That's why...

The TARIFF is the punishment for not acting... Not looking to ruin a major trading partner.. Just want their inaction to COST them something...

 

[BlackFlag]

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods.

Omg...

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Mexico won't pay the tariffs, we will.

You didn't understand a word of this didya? The Treasury GETS the tariff money.. The Treasury can REBATE that tariff money to working America.. Just takes more intelligent folks in Congress to get MOTIVATED to ease the consumer pain...

 

[BlackFlag]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods. We just want the damn tariff money until they take our diplomatic requests under IMMEDIATE consideration.. That's why...

The TARIFF is the punishment for not acting... Not looking to ruin a major trading partner.. Just want their inaction to COST them something...

It will cost them revenue from Americans buying less. It will not cost them revenue by paying Americans to keep buying from them.

 

[Olde Europe]

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods.

But that's the only way to inflict a price on Mexico (Mexican farmers and manufacturers, to be precise) by way of tariffs. Which is the attention-getter you hoped for.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mexico pays no tariffs. The importing U.S. corporation does, and it passes the cost on to the consumer.

Of course Mexico pays them.. Not ALL their exports are American owned. Far from it outside of autos and appliances... The larger part of exports to us are actually oil and oil products.. And avocadoes.. LOL...

Whoever is sending those Mexican goods North PAYS the tariff... That's the MEXICAN economy under Mexican jurisdiction paying the tariff. Don't care if its a Chrysler plant, it's operating inside the MEXICAN economy..

Let the total tariff be 100%. 40% goes into the general budget, 20% for the wall, and 40% flows into some rebate to consumers that will require some decent-sized bureaucracy to calculate and implement. That still saddles U.S. consumers with 60% of the tariffs. If that's "protecting" U.S. consumers, I don't want to know what will happen to them under Trump.

I've already copped to the 40% 40% 20% being arbitrary.. You could EASILY refund the majority of it if that's Congress wanted to do.. But the beauty of Mexico paying some for the wall and our border security while they diddle themselves doing nothing help is kinda fun to ponder..

You could, of course, quietly pay back the tariffs to the supermarket chains / auto makers / etc., who would then leave the prices where they were before, and then consumers really are protected. How about that? Except for some financial wizards who would figure out a way to get the tariff rebate, twice or thrice, without ever having paid any tariff.

I thought you were all about screwing the corporates. LOL... The stuff coming in is too diverse to figure out who exactly in the corporate world is absorbing any of the increase. Some will CHOOSE to, others wont.

That's why rebating it as FICA TAX break makes more sense than a simple tax credit. because except for the self-employed, 50% of the break goes to the worker and 50% goes to the employer...

There's too deep a supply chain to measure ALL the suffering.. But contrary to your assertions, the calculations for rebating that Treasury tariff money are very simple if you just release it back to every working American to offset the pain..

 

[flacaltenn]

Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

So next week, when American importers are paying an extra 5% for their goods from Mexico, and that extra 5% goes to the treasury as a tax payment; you’re telling me you can show that actually it’s Mexico’s government paying that 5%?

It's the Mexican ECONOMY that's paying it.. Not the government.. If that's not enough to get asses off the siesta couch, then they need NEW govt...

 

[flacaltenn]

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods.

But that's the only way to inflict a price on Mexico (Mexican farmers and manufacturers, to be precise) by way of tariffs. Which is the attention-getter you hoped for.

Hell no.. Mexican farmers and manufacturers will be the ones SHIPPING and PAYING the tariffs.. You would hope that NO decrease in trade would result, but that the tariffs come out of the Mexican economy, not out of ours..

All businesses operating in Mexico are part of the Mexican economy...

 

[joaquinmiller]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods. We just want the damn tariff money until they take our diplomatic requests under IMMEDIATE consideration.. That's why...

The TARIFF is the punishment for not acting... Not looking to ruin a major trading partner.. Just want their inaction to COST them something...

The tariffs don't hurt Mexico unless they drive down purchases. You completely misapprehend the situation.

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Mexico pays no tariffs. The importing U.S. corporation does, and it passes the cost on to the consumer.

Let the total tariff be 100%. 40% goes into the general budget, 20% for the wall, and 40% flows into some rebate to consumers that will require some decent-sized bureaucracy to calculate and implement. That still saddles U.S. consumers with 60% of the tariffs. If that's "protecting" U.S. consumers, I don't want to know what will happen to them under Trump.

Yeah, none of the politicians and pundits points out how to protect consumers according to Flac - because it's not working.

You could, of course, quietly pay back the tariffs to the supermarket chains / auto makers / etc., who would then leave the prices where they were before, and then consumers really are protected. How about that? Except for some financial wizards who would figure out a way to get the tariff rebate, twice or thrice, without ever having paid any tariff.

Exactly. The corporations will pay more to have the goods from Mexico come into this country, but then will pass the added expense on to the consumer.

Sorry, but corporations and their CEO's aren't interested in making less money.

The money was PAID to relieve that consumer pain.. That's the whole point.. You want it to DISAPPEAR into the toilet bowl of the General FUnd or end up REIMBURSING American consumers..

If you don't get that -- you probably deserve to be scammed...

 

[Olde Europe]

Of course Mexico pays them..

Heavens, Flac, the U.S.-based buyer (importer) of Mexican goods pays the tariff. And, it really doesn't matter, as they will do their best to get their consumers on the hook to reimburse them.

The damage is, of course, far worse and far more extensive, in that complex supply chains are being disrupted, and longer-term production planning is being thrown in disarray, investments postponed or scrapped, and all that because the Trumpy elected to throw yet another temper tantrum in an effort to saddle Mexico with the partly U.S.-inflicted Central American refugee crisis. That's not even to begin to talk about how tariffs inflicted over not trade-related issues is a clear violation of trade rules, and undermines the standing of yet another international organization safeguarding some semblance of international stability.

Is watching foreign policy by immature tantrum really so much fun?

 

[Ravi]

Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

So next week, when American importers are paying an extra 5% for their goods from Mexico, and that extra 5% goes to the treasury as a tax payment; you’re telling me you can show that actually it’s Mexico’s government paying that 5%?

It's the Mexican ECONOMY that's paying it.. Not the government.. If that's not enough to get asses off the siesta couch, then they need NEW govt...

Aside from your ethnic jokes, your boy trump is punishing Mexico and Americans for his, trump's, failure to control a basically nonexistent problem. But hey, they could rape the wimmen. As could trump while you look the other way.

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods. We just want the damn tariff money until they take our diplomatic requests under IMMEDIATE consideration.. That's why...

The TARIFF is the punishment for not acting... Not looking to ruin a major trading partner.. Just want their inaction to COST them something...

The tariffs don't hurt Mexico unless they drive down purchases. You completely misapprehend the situation.

Oh Hell no... If Congress promised the American people that a large fraction of the $4 for $40 toaster would be used to reduce their taxes -- they might buy more Mexican goods..

Don't know where you got the narrow view that tariffs HAVE to drive down consumer purchases in TEMPORARY situations like this.. It's only because Congress doesn't really have your best interest at heart in this. All they care about is the optics and talking points...

Wouldn't work with CHINESE goods. Because that's not a temporary situation and China has WARPED the choices that consumers have by so dominating the full spectrum of goods..

 

[flacaltenn]

Heavens, Flac, the U.S.-based buyer (importer) of Mexican goods pays the tariff.

NO.. That's not what happens in Customs when the goods cross. That actual money is COLLECTED from the shipper.. And is bound to disappear into the never empty vortex of the General Fund at the Treasury.. But it does not have to BE that way...

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

"Protecting consumers" eliminates the process that drives down purchases from the exporting country. Why would consumers buy fewer products from Mexico if we're going to rebate the tariff (or a portion) to them?

We don't want Americans to buy less Mexican goods. We just want the damn tariff money until they take our diplomatic requests under IMMEDIATE consideration.. That's why...

The TARIFF is the punishment for not acting... Not looking to ruin a major trading partner.. Just want their inaction to COST them something...

The tariffs don't hurt Mexico unless they drive down purchases. You completely misapprehend the situation.

See post #38... You not thinking outside the box on this.. There's REAL MONEY available from the tariffs that could be used to reimburse the American consumer...