I Don't Think Many Of You Know What "Confronted" Means

[Si modo]

First I'll quote the authors of the law itself Stand Your Ground authors: Trayvon Martin’s shooter should likely be charged, avoid immunity - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com




The place I read the statute two days ago is now no longer online http://election.dos.state.fl.us/laws/05laws/ch_2005-027.pdf i will find it elsewhere for you asap

Here is the statute: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

That is what is currently on the books.

So, if you could, I would also like to find something in that law that disallows what happened, but I can't.

http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2005-027.pdf there it is.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of
death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril
of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using
defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm
to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the
process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly
entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had
removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will
from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe
that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring
or had occurred.

Under part 1, zimmerman has no protection

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to
be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as
an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection
from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact
against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild,
or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of,
the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity
or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an
unlawful activity; or

(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement
officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a
dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties
and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable
law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that
the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

Section 2 does not allow for defensive force to have been used in this situation

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is
attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty
to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with
force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary
to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another
or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Section 3 does not apply to zimmerman either.

The law does not protect what he did at all.

here is section 3:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.​

Please explain how that does not apply to Zimmerman.

Here is my analysis:

- Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity.

- The evidence at the scene indicates that Zimmerman was physically attacked, and witness statements corroborate that.

- Zimmerman had a right to be there.

- And, Zimmerman told the cops that he called for help and no one came (witness statement corroborates that someone called for help).

- And, only Zimmerman knows what he feared or not. I can guess what he says, too.

So, if I'm missing something, please explain to me what it is.

 

[DiamondDave]

Both sides have people using this incident as a soapbox for something.

Politically this was a non story prior to sharpton and the usual cast of characters injected politics into it. And now Obama has stirred up a political firestorm with his comments. Naturally the right isn't going to sit by while their integrity is being besmerched on national tv hourly.

This is 100% instigated by the left.

Yep. The FEDS need to stay the Hell out of it and let the State handle it.

More grandstanding by the usual suspects.

Yes... since when are their federal murder laws?? This is the fed's jurisdiction how?? Now... the persons rightfully in charge of the investigation can call for assistance... but the fed cannot just step in all over this...

Again... for ones like wrongwinger.. the sensationalizing and posing opinion as fact are more important than the actual incident and result... for it is a vehicle to their political agenda... and it has nothing to do with a real investigation or what may or may not stem from the results of that investigation

 

[Peach]

And you know this HOW?? You know whether the investigators are sweeping it under the rug or doing their due diligence to make sure that if charges are brought against anyone, that they stick because there are not holes in the case because they rushed things??

And it is not the family politicizing and using this as a stage... it is everyone from politicians, extremist groups, vigilante groups, talk show hosts, media networks, etc that are politicizing this....

It is a shame that this grandstanding is taking away from a tragic death of someone young.... condolences should be going to the family so that they can get beyond this and heal in whatever way they can.... and that will not happen when you have grandstanding by talking heads and agenda driven assholes

I know this how the police took his story at face value
I know this how and armed civilian who just killed a kid was never brought in for questioning
I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon
I know this how the guy was never clearly established as part of a neighborhood watch or involved in a formal patrol at the time

If not for the family raising a stink......nothing would have been done. Given the delay, nothing will probably get done

Again, I agree with Murked. Stale evidence, too many talking heads.

CORRECTION: I agree with RW.

 

[PredFan]

I know this how the police took his story at face value

Wrong.

I know this how and armed civilian who just killed a kid was never brought in for questioning

He was questioned at the scene, and at the hospital, and i believe he was brought to the station but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

It isn't a murder weapon if it's self-defense.

I know this how the guy was never clearly established as part of a neighborhood watch or involved in a formal patrol at the time

Irrelevant. Anyone can watch their neighborhood.

If not for the family raising a stink......nothing would have been done. Given the delay, nothing will probably get done

What needed to be done?

So yeah, you don't really know all that much about it.

 

[The T]

Politically this was a non story prior to sharpton and the usual cast of characters injected politics into it. And now Obama has stirred up a political firestorm with his comments. Naturally the right isn't going to sit by while their integrity is being besmerched on national tv hourly.

This is 100% instigated by the left.

Yep. The FEDS need to stay the Hell out of it and let the State handle it.

More grandstanding by the usual suspects.

Yes... since when are their federal murder laws?? This is the fed's jurisdiction how?? Now... the persons rightfully in charge of the investigation can call for assistance... but the fed cannot just step in all over this...

Again... for ones like wrongwinger.. the sensationalizing and posing opinion as fact are more important than the actual incident and result... for it is a vehicle to their political agenda... and it has nothing to do with a real investigation or what may or may not stem from the results of that investigation

The Florida Governor and his Attorney General are looking into the matter as they should. Had the perp fled over State lines THEN it might become a matter for the FBI...whatever...

Looks like the left is gonna beat another issue to death like anything they touch. It's sickening as Hell.

Angela Corey to take over investigation into Sanford shooting death of Trayvon Martin

 

[GuyPinestra]

This happened over three weeks ago. If not for the family "politicizing" it, the case would have been swept under the rug

And you know this HOW?? You know whether the investigators are sweeping it under the rug or doing their due diligence to make sure that if charges are brought against anyone, that they stick because there are not holes in the case because they rushed things??

And it is not the family politicizing and using this as a stage... it is everyone from politicians, extremist groups, vigilante groups, talk show hosts, media networks, etc that are politicizing this....

It is a shame that this grandstanding is taking away from a tragic death of someone young.... condolences should be going to the family so that they can get beyond this and heal in whatever way they can.... and that will not happen when you have grandstanding by talking heads and agenda driven assholes

I know this how the police took his story at face value

Because his story matched the physical evidence.

I know this how and armed civilian who just killed a kid was never brought in for questioning

Because his story matched the physical evidence.

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

Wrong, read the police report.

I know this how the guy was never clearly established as part of a neighborhood watch or involved in a formal patrol at the time

The guy has been doing Neighborhood Watch for years. No, the homeowner's association didn't have an 'official' program, but then again they aren't REQUIRED to.

If not for the family raising a stink......nothing would have been done. Given the delay, nothing will probably get done

Unless there is something they're not telling us, there is probably nothing to BE done.

 

[emilynghiem]

i dont understand why this "story" is so goddamn important. people die all the time...shit happens. this is not special.

I agree people are killing and dying daily. But instead of growing insensitive to it, we should be more aware it is not acceptable and needs to change. Look how Rosa Parks did not consider herself special, just a tired woman who wanted to sit down on the bus. And that sparked a national movement that was waiting to happen anyway.

Same here. It's because these things happen all the time, whether it's race related or not. It finally happened to two people that the media and public took notice of.

We've been needing to address this whole issue anyway.

How are the local neighbors and residents supposed to promote self-policing our own districts? What are the policies and procedures we need to follow, and what is to prevent criminal or sick people from getting a hold of guns and using them out of the context of regulated policing or defense of the law?

How do we make sure everyone in a district knows who is supposed to be there and who is a suspicious person out of place? And what is the correct procedure for confrontation and arrest so there is no violence between citizens, police or even people with criminal intent? How do we train everyone, and get all residents to agree to a common policy?

How do we prevent conflict from escalating into crime or violence in any form?

 

[Crackerjack]

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

According to the police report, the firearm used in the incident was confiscated by the police at the scene and entered into evidence. Please see the last page.

 

[BlindBoo]

outrage? do you know how many black teenagers are purposefully gunned down in the streets in American cities? Where the fuck is the outrage there?

People are making this out like it is an injustice perpetrated by the system. It isn't. It was a dispute between two citizens that ended in tragedy.

---

Why does MarcATL want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Is his mind affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.

What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?

A dispute?

Chasing down a teenager because you have issues with black men is a dispute?

One person tracking and one person fleeing is not a dispute.

Try again.

He had issues with his community being hit by burglaries and robberies in epidemic proportions. As hard as you want to try this has not been proven to be a race issue.
The transcripts of the 911 call can not make out and confirm any racial names called.
To date that is a myth spread by the vast legal team for the girl friend.

That is as much a myth as "I think he said punks not coons".

One of the strongest indications comes from CNN, which asked an audio expert to closely examine a crucial 1.6 seconds of the recording.

On Zimmerman’s 911 Call, What Sounds Like a Racial Slur | Florida Center for Investigative Reporting

What stood out, on first listen, was Zimmerman describing “a real suspicious guy” who “looks like he’s up to no good,” and adding, “These assholes, they always get away.” Also commanding attention was the dispatcher’s telling Zimmerman not to follow the man.

But after The Young Turks played tapes on the Internet video show on Monday, listeners contacted them to say, “You missed something.” Host Cent Uygur credited his viewers for the catch: “You put up anything on YouTube, they will dissect it, second by second.”

On Tuesday, the show followed up with a segment strongly suggesting the mumbled sounds were the words “fucking coons.” The angle gained traction when blogger ZappoDave on the Daily Kos also began writing about it on Tuesday, and cable TV talk shows soon began broaching the subject.

Last night on MSNBC, Jasmine Rand, an attorney for the Martin family, said that the words were not audible on the version of the tapes that Sanford police provided to the family. “So at this time, until the family can verify that that was an official version from the Sanford Police Department, the family cannot stand by those terms,” Rand said.

But the words do appear to be present on the tapes released over the weekend and published Monday by the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting. They can be heard, however indistinctly, at the 2:21 mark of Zimmerman’s 911 call:

If Zimmerman indeed made the racist remark, the legal consequences could be severe. As legal writer Jeffrey Toobin pointed out, homicide is not a federal crime. But a homicide motivated by racial animus — that is a federal hate crime, and it could result in very serious charges

 

[LockeJaw]

I am a local resident. I live 5 miles from Sanford. I have been hearing about this story for almost all of the time since it happened. We do not know the whole story, we do not know what happened. The way the law works is that the shooter has claimed that it was self-defense and gave his story to prove it. It doesn't matter if the police believe his story or not, if they have no proof that it happened any other way than the way he said it did, then they cannot arrest him. It shouldn't matter if Al Sharpton comes down here and rants his racist rhetoric all day long. The law is the law, due process is due process, and this is still America and we still have a 5th Amendment.

I don't disagree. I have not formed an opinion of guilt or innocence - and I have, in the main, avoided any media coverage... the media are notorious for filling in missing facts by making up their own theories. Never a good way to form an opinion.

I've supported due process from the beginning of this... and I will continue to do so. I don't want the police to be railroaded to charge Zimmerman unless there is evidence of wrong doing. Justice is not served by sending an innocent person to jail to calm the race baiters.... nor is it served if a guilty man goes free because the police did not do their job right.

This is not a cut and dried case, it is not a done deal.... but a kid is dead and his family have the right to expect - and demand - that it is investigated thoroughly.

Understood and I agree with the exception of whether it's cut and dried or not. I could very well be a cut and dried case. We just don't know. As of this very minute, Zimmerman has not been arrested and charged. I would think that if they actually had any kind of case against him, he would be in custody. The Sanford Police are no longer in charge but the FBI, and a new prosecutor have still not had him arrested. The only thing we can rule out at this point is that it is a cut and dried case of murder.

I agree with you on most points, but the fact they haven't arrested him yet means nothing. They've got procedures to go through, evidence to analyze, etc. that this happened only 3 weeks ago and they just treated it like an open and shut case of self defense is appalling. It shows a lazy police department at best, a biased at worst. I'm not going to say just because he said what he said on the 9-11 tape he should be convicted, that doesn't prove he wasn't defending himself but it does provide a motive for his overreaction. The Martin family is right to pressure the cops to be thorough. But like you, all I want is to see justice be done. And justice in my opinion from what I know, is at least bringing the man up for trial. Ultimately it's up to the cops and courts.

 

[DiamondDave]

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

According to the police report, the firearm used in the incident was confiscated by the police at the scene and entered into evidence. Please see the last page.

Wrongwinger posing fantasy and opinion as fact?? Say it isn't so!!!!

 

[PredFan]

The way people are politicizing this tragedy that never shouldve happened is sickening. With the evidence we as those on the outside looking in should, to any reasonable person, show you Zimmerman should at the very least be charged and put on trial.

I'm a reasonable person, as opposed to those who are reacting out of emotion only. What evidence do you see out there that contradicts his story that it was self-defense?



You mean Al "Race Pimp and Media Whore" Sharpton? I agree.



Yes he did go after the guy, but that isn't a crime.



I don't know about you butI don't live in a country where one can be put in jail before and until the authorities can determine if a crime has been committed.



Agreed.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Murder is murder, the reasoning for the murder should only count if it proves intent. As far as sentencing it should have no bearing. No life is worth more than another. So let's knock off the bullshit and just let what happens happen. If Zimmerman faces trial, as I believe he should, it shouldnt be because of marches, tv comments, and peoples feelings.

It should be because of the evidence.

Agreed, and he should not ecven be arrested until there is evidence.

People are arrested all the time without concrete evidence, even denied bail while awaiting trial. What evidence do I see Zimmerman may not(note the may not) have a case for claiming self defense? The fact he started the confrontation and pulled a gun, if Trayvon did fight with him it was most likely because he was trying to defend himself from a big guy with a gun. Zimmerman had over 100 lbs on the kid. Now unless the kids a damn ninja, I see no way he could be seen as a physical threat to him. The 9-11 tape where it's clear it's a young kids voice screaming for help. That wasn't Zimmerman. We've heard his chat with the 9-11 operator, and it's also clear as day, regardless what the news is saying, that Zimmerman called him a "fucking coon". Thats enough evidence for most prosecutors.

There is no concrete evidence in this case. Starting the confrontation? You mean by following him. That is not evidence that he was attacked by the victim. You do realize that this "kid" was substantially bigger and stronger than what you see in the photos. He was a football player. Weight, however means little. If Zimmerman who looks like he eats at McDonalds way too often, was following the guy, he might have been totally breathless when the attack happened.

Again, you were not there, you are totally speculating.

You do not know that that wasn't Zimmerman. You do not know that at all.

If he called him a coon, it is not evidence for a charge of murder, nor is it proof in any way that Martin did not attack him.

You have absolutely zero proof that it didn't happen the way Zimmerman said it did. None at all.

 

[Si modo]

A dispute?

Chasing down a teenager because you have issues with black men is a dispute?

One person tracking and one person fleeing is not a dispute.

Try again.

He had issues with his community being hit by burglaries and robberies in epidemic proportions. As hard as you want to try this has not been proven to be a race issue.
The transcripts of the 911 call can not make out and confirm any racial names called.
To date that is a myth spread by the vast legal team for the girl friend.

That is as much a myth as "I think he said punks not coons".

One of the strongest indications comes from CNN, which asked an audio expert to closely examine a crucial 1.6 seconds of the recording.

On Zimmerman’s 911 Call, What Sounds Like a Racial Slur*|*Florida Center for Investigative Reporting

What stood out, on first listen, was Zimmerman describing “a real suspicious guy” who “looks like he’s up to no good,” and adding, “These assholes, they always get away.” Also commanding attention was the dispatcher’s telling Zimmerman not to follow the man.

But after The Young Turks played tapes on the Internet video show on Monday, listeners contacted them to say, “You missed something.” Host Cent Uygur credited his viewers for the catch: “You put up anything on YouTube, they will dissect it, second by second.”

On Tuesday, the show followed up with a segment strongly suggesting the mumbled sounds were the words “fucking coons.” The angle gained traction when blogger ZappoDave on the Daily Kos also began writing about it on Tuesday, and cable TV talk shows soon began broaching the subject.

Last night on MSNBC, Jasmine Rand, an attorney for the Martin family, said that the words were not audible on the version of the tapes that Sanford police provided to the family. “So at this time, until the family can verify that that was an official version from the Sanford Police Department, the family cannot stand by those terms,” Rand said.

But the words do appear to be present on the tapes released over the weekend and published Monday by the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting. They can be heard, however indistinctly, at the 2:21 mark of Zimmerman’s 911 call:

If Zimmerman indeed made the racist remark, the legal consequences could be severe. As legal writer Jeffrey Toobin pointed out, homicide is not a federal crime. But a homicide motivated by racial animus — that is a federal hate crime, and it could result in very serious charges

But, there has to be a crime first, before there is a hate crime.

We don't convict on thoughts or feelings, alone.

 

[PredFan]

It deserves to be re-looked, this is NOT an open and shut case.

And you know this how?

Because I am God.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[The T]

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

According to the police report, the firearm used in the incident was confiscated by the police at the scene and entered into evidence. Please see the last page.

Wrongwinger posing fantasy and opinion as fact?? Say it isn't so!!!!

Wrongwinger is just a jackass looking for attention he can't get otherwise.

 

[California Girl]

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

According to the police report, the firearm used in the incident was confiscated by the police at the scene and entered into evidence. Please see the last page.

Wrongwinger posing fantasy and opinion as fact?? Say it isn't so!!!!

Yea, I was shocked at that!

Shocked!

S H O C K E D!

So shocked, in truth, that I may shortly have to use several exclamation marks to make my point more valid!!!!!!!

 

[Crackerjack]

I don't disagree. I have not formed an opinion of guilt or innocence - and I have, in the main, avoided any media coverage... the media are notorious for filling in missing facts by making up their own theories. Never a good way to form an opinion.

I've supported due process from the beginning of this... and I will continue to do so. I don't want the police to be railroaded to charge Zimmerman unless there is evidence of wrong doing. Justice is not served by sending an innocent person to jail to calm the race baiters.... nor is it served if a guilty man goes free because the police did not do their job right.

This is not a cut and dried case, it is not a done deal.... but a kid is dead and his family have the right to expect - and demand - that it is investigated thoroughly.

Understood and I agree with the exception of whether it's cut and dried or not. I could very well be a cut and dried case. We just don't know. As of this very minute, Zimmerman has not been arrested and charged. I would think that if they actually had any kind of case against him, he would be in custody. The Sanford Police are no longer in charge but the FBI, and a new prosecutor have still not had him arrested. The only thing we can rule out at this point is that it is a cut and dried case of murder.

I agree with you on most points, but the fact they haven't arrested him yet means nothing. They've got procedures to go through, evidence to analyze, etc. that this happened only 3 weeks ago and they just treated it like an open and shut case of self defense is appalling. It shows a lazy police department at best, a biased at worst. I'm not going to say just because he said what he said on the 9-11 tape he should be convicted, that doesn't prove he wasn't defending himself but it does provide a motive for his overreaction. The Martin family is right to pressure the cops to be thorough. But like you, all I want is to see justice be done. And justice in my opinion from what I know, is at least bringing the man up for trial. Ultimately it's up to the cops and courts.

I agree with you up until that last part I bolded. The purpose of a trial is not to discover facts, it is to determine guilt. The investigation is over once the trial begins.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you would more correctly articulate your opinion by desiring to see his case brought before a grand jury, as that is the instrument for determining whether all the available evidence against the proposed defendant is enough to justify a trial.

 

[PredFan]

I know this how Zimmerman was allowed to leave the scene with the murder weapon

According to the police report, the firearm used in the incident was confiscated by the police at the scene and entered into evidence. Please see the last page.

Yup, most of these people know very very little about the case, they only know what the media tells them.

I live in Orlando, 5 miles from Sanford. I've known about this for more than two weeks. I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I do know that demands for an arrest are being done by a lynch mob. They are wrong and they need to let the police handle it.

 

[PredFan]

I don't disagree. I have not formed an opinion of guilt or innocence - and I have, in the main, avoided any media coverage... the media are notorious for filling in missing facts by making up their own theories. Never a good way to form an opinion.

I've supported due process from the beginning of this... and I will continue to do so. I don't want the police to be railroaded to charge Zimmerman unless there is evidence of wrong doing. Justice is not served by sending an innocent person to jail to calm the race baiters.... nor is it served if a guilty man goes free because the police did not do their job right.

This is not a cut and dried case, it is not a done deal.... but a kid is dead and his family have the right to expect - and demand - that it is investigated thoroughly.

Understood and I agree with the exception of whether it's cut and dried or not. I could very well be a cut and dried case. We just don't know. As of this very minute, Zimmerman has not been arrested and charged. I would think that if they actually had any kind of case against him, he would be in custody. The Sanford Police are no longer in charge but the FBI, and a new prosecutor have still not had him arrested. The only thing we can rule out at this point is that it is a cut and dried case of murder.

I agree with you on most points, but the fact they haven't arrested him yet means nothing. They've got procedures to go through, evidence to analyze, etc. that this happened only 3 weeks ago and they just treated it like an open and shut case of self defense is appalling. It shows a lazy police department at best, a biased at worst. I'm not going to say just because he said what he said on the 9-11 tape he should be convicted, that doesn't prove he wasn't defending himself but it does provide a motive for his overreaction. The Martin family is right to pressure the cops to be thorough. But like you, all I want is to see justice be done. And justice in my opinion from what I know, is at least bringing the man up for trial. Ultimately it's up to the cops and courts.

Fair enough.

 

[LockeJaw]

I'm a reasonable person, as opposed to those who are reacting out of emotion only. What evidence do you see out there that contradicts his story that it was self-defense?



You mean Al "Race Pimp and Media Whore" Sharpton? I agree.



Yes he did go after the guy, but that isn't a crime.



I don't know about you butI don't live in a country where one can be put in jail before and until the authorities can determine if a crime has been committed.



Agreed.



Agreed, and he should not ecven be arrested until there is evidence.

People are arrested all the time without concrete evidence, even denied bail while awaiting trial. What evidence do I see Zimmerman may not(note the may not) have a case for claiming self defense? The fact he started the confrontation and pulled a gun, if Trayvon did fight with him it was most likely because he was trying to defend himself from a big guy with a gun. Zimmerman had over 100 lbs on the kid. Now unless the kids a damn ninja, I see no way he could be seen as a physical threat to him. The 9-11 tape where it's clear it's a young kids voice screaming for help. That wasn't Zimmerman. We've heard his chat with the 9-11 operator, and it's also clear as day, regardless what the news is saying, that Zimmerman called him a "fucking coon". Thats enough evidence for most prosecutors.

There is no concrete evidence in this case. Starting the confrontation? You mean by following him. That is not evidence that he was attacked by the victim. You do realize that this "kid" was substantially bigger and stronger than what you see in the photos. He was a football player. Weight, however means little. If Zimmerman who looks like he eats at McDonalds way too often, was following the guy, he might have been totally breathless when the attack happened.

Again, you were not there, you are totally speculating.

You do not know that that wasn't Zimmerman. You do not know that at all.

If he called him a coon, it is not evidence for a charge of murder, nor is it proof in any way that Martin did not attack him.

You have absolutely zero proof that it didn't happen the way Zimmerman said it did. None at all.

The 9-11 call from the neighbor clearly contains the voice of a younger boy screaming for help. The fact you claim that something I've heard with my own 2 ears is "speculation" is hilarious, I've listened to the uncut call from Zimmerman saying"they always get away" and "fucking coons". That was said prior to the shooting, sir. There doesn't have to be concrete evidence, circumstantial evidence is admissable in court, you know that right?

You don't seem to understand the justice system very well.