I Don't Think the Stimulus is Working

[MaggieMae]

The government created projects, not jobs. The Census is a project. Road construction is a project. Certainly not a long term job. Small businesses don't create jobs unless uncertainty in the market is minimized. Consumers are not confident, banks don't loan much and government policy on health care and taxes looks troublesome.

Now the dimwit Obama comes along and preaches wine and roses, when we all know better. The minions run about blaming every one but the one who should have been leading us the last year and a half.

Jobs are jobs. Some are short term, some last a lifetime....they are still jobs

Census jobs are available every 10 years, always have been
Construction jobs are, by their nature, short term. When the project is over, you have to find new work. It has always been that way in Construction

It's that way for just about every business. My son called yesterday to say he'd been laid off. I freaked, but he just laughed and said he'd decided to take the rest of the summer off; no big deal. He was a Project Manager for one of the big oil companies, determining what, where, and how much repairs and upgrades to refineries will cost. His latest "project" (Bakersfield) was over, and [surprise surprise], he said that the company is not doing any more upgrades because "clean energy" is where the investments will be. So the son will be looking at some new training and he's happy about that, before he starts job hunting again in a couple of months.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama and the Dem Congress are doing all they can to transform America into the biggest Socialist/Marxist/Fascist failure the planet has ever seen.

They're proud of it too and they are outside of the American mainstream so they will be voted out in November.

We have to hold the Republican feet to the fire for all time, no more Bushes no more Delays running things

If you think any freshmen/women will be any different once they become indoctrinated by the army of D.C. lobbyists, I hear that bridge in Brooklyn is still for sale.

 

[saveliberty]

The government created projects, not jobs. The Census is a project. Road construction is a project. Certainly not a long term job. Small businesses don't create jobs unless uncertainty in the market is minimized. Consumers are not confident, banks don't loan much and government policy on health care and taxes looks troublesome.

Now the dimwit Obama comes along and preaches wine and roses, when we all know better. The minions run about blaming every one but the one who should have been leading us the last year and a half.

Once again, after all this time, I still hear no suggestions as to what you (collectively) think he should have done. "Let the market take care of itself"??? Sure, that's what took us into this disastrous economy in the first place.

Maggie, I suggested at the time we do home foreclosures differently. My plan was to reduce principle for those who could afford a smaller payment. The loan would be rewritten and part or all of the reduced principle would go to the bank. Now we helped someone stay in their home, the bank and most likely help keep other folks home values a little higher.

Instead we have a large number of bank failures, foreclosures and a depressed housing market.

Should have let GM and Chrysler go bankrupt before considering bailouts. Smaller payouts, if any after that. Also my suggestion.

Should have left Iraq and Afghanistan a year ago. I supported that too.

None this is new, liberals just sat there and cried foul the whole time.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's even higher then that. Count all of the folks working part-time instead of full-time then it goes even higher.

Hate to break it to you, but hiring part-timers won't change, even as the economy picks up and jobs become available. The private sector has discovered that they can pay people less and demand more productivity because of the general fear of losing a job (any job). A full-time job with benefits will be nonexistent in a couple of years.And apparently there's a lot of people who have held onto their downsized jobs that intend to quit and look for new jobs once the economy gets better. According to a Harris Interactive poll, 48% of those who plan to job hunt are mainly motivated by a lack of trust in their current employers. Gee, I wonder why.

The job market is subject to the law of supply and demand. Too many people chasing too few jobs and the wages decrease. Too many jobs chasing too few applicanmts and the wage rates increase.

As long as we have a government creating and maintaining policies that make the future unstable and unpredictable for business, we will be in the situation you describe.

If we had a government that knew how to stimulate the economy, our employment rate would be the envy of the world instead of the butt of its jokes.

Exactly. At what point after the boom years of the 90's did it become an employER'S market and not an employEE's market? When did salaries begin to stagnate and benefits decreased or eliminated altogether? When did it become more "profitable" for businesses to import H-1B technical and scientific talent from places like India who required far less salaries than Americans? Why it happened AFTER the Bush tax cuts, intended to generate and/or maintain American employment at a decent living wage. What did the top 1% do with their windfall tax cuts?

 

[MaggieMae]

You do realize that Recovery.Org is Ran BY the ADMIN right. would you have believed everything it said, had it been Bush running it? We are suppose to take their word for it because they made a web site?

LOL

Typical Liberal

Of course I know that. And yes, I would have believed it if Bush Co. had been running it because, just like the current one, the information is easily verifiable elsewhere. Duh...

Typical con.

 

[MaggieMae]

Some of us aren't as stupid as you'd prefer.

Ahh the Typical Liberal Response. When confronted with a Massive Majority that does not agree with them. We are all just to stupid to see that Liberals know best.

I see no "massive" disagreement, pal. And thanks for taking ONE COMMENT from a plethora of many fact-based comments.

Typical con, who only makes himself look like a fool having a tantrum.

 

[saveliberty]

You do realize that Recovery.Org is Ran BY the ADMIN right. would you have believed everything it said, had it been Bush running it? We are suppose to take their word for it because they made a web site?

LOL

Typical Liberal

Of course I know that. And yes, I would have believed it if Bush Co. had been running it because, just like the current one, the information is easily verifiable elsewhere. Duh...

Typical con.

I don't know about easily, but when verified it often turns out to be erronious or "created".

 

[MaggieMae]

Were you employed and selling stuff in the mid 90's? That's what a recovery feels like.

This is no recovery. This is a recession. It's not getting better. It's getting worse. The guy in charge has gotten everything he has sought to lead us to recovery and he is failing.

If there is a recovery, you don't need statistics to tell you it's happening. You will see it in privately funded construction projects, cities and states flush with tax revenues, growing and reinvigorated neighborhoods and politicians crowing about their success in creating jobs that they had nothing to do with.

If there is a failed recovery you will see it in the loss of jobs, houses and storefronts empty, cities and states laying off employees and shutting down programs and politicians feeling our pain and extending unemployment benefits.

By your own observations, is this a recovery or a failed recovery?

Of course your little scenarios completely ignore the cause of this particular recession, which is far, far different and more severe than any other.

It may be more severe but it is not differnt than any other Recession. The Factors contributing to it are all the same as always. The Cause of it was the Result of Decades of Bad Government Policy not a Few Years of Bush Tax cuts.

But then I would not expect a Liberal such as yourself to recognize that. You want the country to Buy Obama's line that it was the Bush tax cuts that lead directly to this Recession
I never said that. Ever. I do blame the Bush adminisration's blatant lack of oversight of the SEC, which allowed the investment banks and Wall Street players to run amok and ignore existing regulations. Any comments by me regarding the tax cuts were separate from the causes of the economic meltdown.
when in fact the Main cause was 2 Fold. Deficit spending by the Government. (a problem that had been growing for DECADES) and Very Bad Policy and Practices in the Housing Market. Polices Pushed for and Defended by Liberal Democrats.
So you too simply ignore the fact that in 2004, Bush announced his minority homeowners policy which allowed zero down payments and relaxed lending terms theretofore required by conventional mortgages? The result of that was that every loan shark in the country put a new sign outside their offices "LOW DOWN/LOW INTEREST MORTGAGES" and then set about like carnival barkers reeling suckers in to buy expensive homes they couldn't afford.

Must be nice living in your little dream world where Everything Bad was caused by Conservatives and Liberals are the truth and the light. Nice but not realistic at all.

I also never said that^. There is plenty of blame to spread around, which I've alluded to right in this thread. You're just pissed off because YOU can't blame only "liberals" for the mess that your party had a huge hand in perpetuating. You can try to insult me 'till pigs fly, but I will never let you people get away with that charge.

 

[MaggieMae]

Of course your little scenarios completely ignore the cause of this particular recession, which is far, far different and more severe than any other.

Maggie would have us stand, water up to our necks on the sinking Titanic while arguing about why there's a hole in the in the ship.

No, I wouldn't. I also wouldn't stand around pointing fingers at who's to blame for making the hole, while it got bigger and bigger. That's all you guys do. As long as you can place blame anywhere except the Republicans or Big Business, you're happy hoping your empty statements stick to some unsuspecting fool who doesn't bother digging at the truth.

 

[Samson]

Some of us aren't as stupid as you'd prefer.

Ahh the Typical Liberal Response. When confronted with a Massive Majority that does not agree with them. We are all just to stupid to see that Liberals know best.

I see no "massive" disagreement, pal. And thanks for taking ONE COMMENT from a plethora of many fact-based comments.

Typical con, who only makes himself look like a fool having a tantrum.

"many fact-based comments?"

You must mean you're reference (the only one you cited) to Recovery.org?

Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients
755,454 Recipients

Recovery Funds Spent
500 Billion

How much does it cost taxpayers to fund One Job for a recovery fund recipient?

 

[xotoxi]

I Don't Think the Stimulus is Working

That's what she said...much to my dismay.

 

[Samson]

I Don't Think the Stimulus is Working

That's what she said...much to my dismay.

You need a perscription for octopii?

 

[boedicca]

Ahh the Typical Liberal Response. When confronted with a Massive Majority that does not agree with them. We are all just to stupid to see that Liberals know best.

I see no "massive" disagreement, pal. And thanks for taking ONE COMMENT from a plethora of many fact-based comments.

Typical con, who only makes himself look like a fool having a tantrum.

"many fact-based comments?"

You must mean you're reference (the only one you cited) to Recovery.org?

Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients
755,454 Recipients

Recovery Funds Spent
500 Billion

How much does it cost taxpayers to fund One Job for a recovery fund recipient?

Recovery.org and its counterpart Recovery.gov are full of misinformation and spin.

With real under and unemployment at 22%, it's quite apparent to anyone with functioning cognitive abilities that Obamanomics is an Epic Fail.

 

[Samson]

I see no "massive" disagreement, pal. And thanks for taking ONE COMMENT from a plethora of many fact-based comments.

Typical con, who only makes himself look like a fool having a tantrum.

"many fact-based comments?"

You must mean you're reference (the only one you cited) to Recovery.gov?

Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients
755,454 Recipients

Recovery Funds Spent
500 Billion

How much does it cost taxpayers to fund One Job for a recovery fund recipient?

Recovery.org and its counterpart Recovery.gov are full of misinformation and spin.

With real under and unemployment at 22%, it's quite apparent to anyone with functioning cognitive abilities that Obamanomics is an Epic Fail.

Actually, I got the number of recipients April 1-June 30 from Recovery.gov.

I tried to find recipients to date (which you'd expect to be on the FRONT PAGE, since it would be largest), but couldn't find it.

Can anyone else?

 

[MaggieMae]

What is funny is Maggie is now admitting our Famed Stimulus was really a bunch of Spending on TEMPORARY construction jobs, and Massive Bail outs to failing state Budgets.
Now admitting? When did I every say they were permanent? I might have said that those temporary PROJECTS would lead to permanent jobs, which many will. Duh...

Now as I have said in the past. This spending might have been needed. You might be able to justify it, but what you can not do, what you would be lying if you said is, that this was the most efficient way to stimulate the economy.

It was not.

Which is why now we have stagnate growth and almost NO jobs being added. Because you do not create growth and create jobs with Construction spending, and Bail outs for medicare budgets. Plain and simple.

Medicare budgets? If you mean MedicAID, States use designated annual block grants to cover their individual state's needs matched by their own funds depending on how each state structures its Medicaid program. Like every other "business" they didn't anticipate the speed and severity of the economic tsunami, and Medicaid funding was not nearly sustainable. The first big chunks of the stimulus also went to save state and local jobs, like teachers and first responders, which otherwise would have been eliminated, all due to lack of revenue coming into state coffers.

This is wildfire season out west. Imagine how much worse a bad situation would be if, say, the California wildfire complement had been cut in half. Do you ever THINK, or is it all political BS all the time?

 

[boedicca]

"many fact-based comments?"

You must mean you're reference (the only one you cited) to Recovery.gov?

Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients
755,454 Recipients

Recovery Funds Spent
500 Billion

How much does it cost taxpayers to fund One Job for a recovery fund recipient?

Recovery.org and its counterpart Recovery.gov are full of misinformation and spin.

With real under and unemployment at 22%, it's quite apparent to anyone with functioning cognitive abilities that Obamanomics is an Epic Fail.

Actually, I got the number of recipients April 1-June 30 from Recovery.gov.

I tried to find recipients to date (which you'd expect to be on the FRONT PAGE, since it would be largest), but couldn't find it.

Can anyone else?

Considering that some of the jobs reported were from counties that don't exist, the entire
"Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients" pins the bogometer.

Most Recovery money went to local, county, and state governments to prevent the lay-offs and delay taking action on bloated pay, benefits, and pensions. Its was a horrific waste of money as we still face the budget busting issue of Too Much Government Spending.

 

[Samson]

Recovery.org and its counterpart Recovery.gov are full of misinformation and spin.

With real under and unemployment at 22%, it's quite apparent to anyone with functioning cognitive abilities that Obamanomics is an Epic Fail.

Actually, I got the number of recipients April 1-June 30 from Recovery.gov.

I tried to find recipients to date (which you'd expect to be on the FRONT PAGE, since it would be largest), but couldn't find it.

Can anyone else?

Considering that some of the jobs reported were from counties that don't exist, the entire
"Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients" pins the bogometer.

Most Recovery money went to local, county, and state governments to prevent the lay-offs and delay taking action on bloated pay, benefits, and pensions. Its was a horrific waste of money as we still face the budget busting issue of Too Much Government Spending.

Where are some of the jobs reported from countries that don't exist?

I see many recovery jobs are offered at Microsoft, but not at Oracle.

 

[MaggieMae]

What is funny is Maggie is now admitting our Famed Stimulus was really a bunch of Spending on TEMPORARY construction jobs, and Massive Bail outs to failing state Budgets.

Now as I have said in the past. This spending might have been needed. You might be able to justify it, but what you can not do, what you would be lying if you said is, that this was the most efficient way to stimulate the economy.

It was not.

Which is why now we have stagnate growth and almost NO jobs being added. Because you do not create growth and create jobs with Construction spending, and Bail outs for medicare budgets. Plain and simple.

And the sad fact is that 'stopping the bleeding' is only a temporary fix when major surgery is indicated. For example, we were sold a bill of goods that General Motors was 'too big to fail' and that it would be disaster if we did not funnel mega billions of dollars into it to prevent bankruptcy. So we funneled the billions into it, bankruptcy was declared anyway, and the primary stockholders are now the U.S. government and the UAW meaning that any problems with this company will now be the responsibility of the tax payers.

And NONE of the problems that previously existed and put the company into jeopardy in the first place have been fixed.

We deserve better.

What are you talking about? GM has restructured its operating plan, and I have seen no indication that they haven't already done much of what is in it, and that other parts are still ongoing.

FACTBOX: Highlights of GM's restructuring plan | Reuters

As for the GM bailout, the money came out of TARP. It wasn't a "new" bailout. So that means that the loan will be repaid and the taxpayers, as primary shareholder, will not suffer any loss (hopefully). If they had gone into bankruptcy, the court would have seized all their assets, the lines would have shut down, and every small business that supports the auto industry even in small ways would have suffered too. GM appears to be on the right track, and only time will tell.

 

[boedicca]

Actually, I got the number of recipients April 1-June 30 from Recovery.gov.

I tried to find recipients to date (which you'd expect to be on the FRONT PAGE, since it would be largest), but couldn't find it.

Can anyone else?

Considering that some of the jobs reported were from counties that don't exist, the entire
"Recovery Funded Jobs Reported by Recipients" pins the bogometer.

Most Recovery money went to local, county, and state governments to prevent the lay-offs and delay taking action on bloated pay, benefits, and pensions. Its was a horrific waste of money as we still face the budget busting issue of Too Much Government Spending.

Where are some of the jobs reported from countries that don't exist?

I see many recovery jobs are offered at Microsoft, but not at Oracle.

Oracle and the Feds aren't getting along that well now that the Whistle Blower has NARCed on the Big O for cheating the GSA.

 

[hjmick]

Remember, as President Obama said today, "if you get into a car and want to go forward, put the car in D; if you wish to go backwards, select R."

Talk about glib and hyperbolic, I'd say that quote fills both descriptions...







What if the "car" looks as though it is about to go over a cliff?