I don't understand why republicans reject both a minimum wage hike and welfare for the poor

[Oldstyle]

Believe it or not, both the left and the right want to end welfare for the poor. The left just has a realistic and humane way of doing it.

$153 billion of public assistance is spent on people because of their low wage jobs. 18 million people make less than $10.10 per hour. How many more do you think make less than $15? If the minimum was raised to $10.10, republicans are to stupid/immature to realize that far less people would be eligible for programs like food stamps. It would dramatically fix the fucking problem of the poor on welfare!

Like it or not, $15 as a minimum wage would be a base wage kept up with the rate of inflation. The last time someone could live comfortably off 10.10 per hour was the fucking 60s. Since the recession, low wage jobs out number higher wage jobs. That means MILLIONS OF PEOPLE have no choice but to accept low wage jobs.

As long as it was gradually raised over a couple of years, the initial cost to the market would be minimized. Prices would go up, but not nearly enough to offset the consumer spending power created by it. Consumer spending would boom. The market would begin to create jobs. Way more than the jobs that would have been scrapped initially. Prices would also go down.

Look the only reason most (not all) CEOs are against raising wages is because it just easier to for them to keep the ridiculous money they make rather than invest in a strong labor force. The average CEO makes over 300x what the average worker makes. Sure we can all agree CEOs deserve a wealthy life for all their hard work, but do you really think they deserve 300x more?

Hell no.

Hell yes.

They stayed in school, got educated, got a marketable skill, didn't have a bunch of kids they couldn't afford and you want to reward those who did none of these things just because they breath. Bullshit.

You repubs have such one track minds. Yes obviously many single women have children that they shouldn't have had, but why don't you ever think of the kids? Should those kids grow up in poverty because of their irresponsible mother? They need public support if there aren't higher wages available.

Should we have had a welfare system that encouraged single women to have multiple children? That's what we've been doing for much of the last thirty years. How's that been working out? Are the kid's of the poor better off now than they were before our entitlement society?

What the fuck? Nothing about this system encourages women to have multiple children. Are you that dense? You're talking about $152 billion a year. A sum of money that mostly feeds kids who would starve otherwise you dip. The mother is not fucking profiting off of it Christ's sakes. What they actually get is fucking peanuts. They are dirt poor government help or none, It's madness the way you people bitch about this, Why dont you people freak out about the ridiculous amount we spend on defense?

For decades, Billy our welfare system was indeed set up in a way that encouraged single mother households.

I already explained this to you as well as in my OP. The price increase would be small in comparison to the boost in consumer spending, Something at McDoanld's would go up 15 cents while the customer would much more to spend on the menu because he makes a couple hundred more a month.. And like I said, the raise would be gradual over a few years. That gives the market time to respond to it.

Oldstyle

You haven't explained anything, Billy.

This is a pretty common sense concept. If I've worked at Company A for ten years...working my way up from a no skills new hire to someone who's skills have gotten me raises from say $8 an hour to $15 an hour...what is my response going to be when your legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour takes effect? Obviously I'm going to expect a corresponding raise to my wage! How could I not? My added skills make me deserving of making more than someone who is just starting out or that doesn't have skills. So when you raise that minimum wage "gradually" over a few years...I'm going to expect that my wage will be gradually raised as well. If it isn't then I'm actually going to be taking a pay CUT because market forces will naturally be raising the cost of goods and services to me!

 

[The Rabbi]

Look, MW has been around for 78 years.
You all surround it with doom and gloom like it's an unknown. Can any of you show me how your scenarios have proven to be true for each increase in those 78years?

yer an idiot

The Minimum Wage Delusion And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes

Case Against Raising The Minimum Wage - Business Insider

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Not a career but a stepping stone to something better. Kind of hard to move foreward if you work full time and still need food assistance to get by.

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job

Not a career but a stepping stone to something better. Kind of hard to move foreward if you work full time and still need food assistance to get by.

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job 32 years ago while in HS. At that time every cashier or stocker anywhere you went was a HS kid. Not so much today. Who do you see working the register at the grocery store or any retail store? Not kids. You all need to stop recalling your success with MW and look realistically at how and who MW affects. Times have changed.

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

 

[The Rabbi]

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job 32 years ago while in HS. At that time every cashier or stocker anywhere you went was a HS kid. Not so much today. Who do you see working the register at the grocery store or any retail store? Not kids. You all need to stop recalling your success with MW and look realistically at how and who MW affects. Times have changed.

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

 

[Oldstyle]

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job

get a second job, thats what I did when I was young. Stop the whining and begging and self pity, and get off your ass and take responsibility for yourself.

I last worked a MW job 32 years ago while in HS. At that time every cashier or stocker anywhere you went was a HS kid. Not so much today. Who do you see working the register at the grocery store or any retail store? Not kids. You all need to stop recalling your success with MW and look realistically at how and who MW affects. Times have changed.

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

I can answer that question quite easily, Hutch. Someone with no job skills that you have to train is "worth less" than minimum wage to their employer. They are in fact a negative drain on that business.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Look, MW has been around for 78 years.
You all surround it with doom and gloom like it's an unknown. Can any of you show me how your scenarios have proven to be true for each increase in those 78years?

yer an idiot

The Minimum Wage Delusion And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes

Case Against Raising The Minimum Wage - Business Insider

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

There was nothing to read.
So you can't produce any study outlining the negative affects that MW increases have had over the last 77 years, yet you all predict they will happen? Why do you suppose there is no data supporting your view?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I last worked a MW job
I last worked a MW job 32 years ago while in HS. At that time every cashier or stocker anywhere you went was a HS kid. Not so much today. Who do you see working the register at the grocery store or any retail store? Not kids. You all need to stop recalling your success with MW and look realistically at how and who MW affects. Times have changed.

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

It's not clear because it's not reality. There's a MW to protect workers from D-bag employers like the one you presented.

 

[The Rabbi]

Look, MW has been around for 78 years.
You all surround it with doom and gloom like it's an unknown. Can any of you show me how your scenarios have proven to be true for each increase in those 78years?

yer an idiot

The Minimum Wage Delusion And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes

Case Against Raising The Minimum Wage - Business Insider

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

There was nothing to read.
So you can't produce any study outlining the negative affects that MW increases have had over the last 77 years, yet you all predict they will happen? Why do you suppose there is no data supporting your view?

There were two links in his post. Do you need me to repost them?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I last worked a MW job
I last worked a MW job 32 years ago while in HS. At that time every cashier or stocker anywhere you went was a HS kid. Not so much today. Who do you see working the register at the grocery store or any retail store? Not kids. You all need to stop recalling your success with MW and look realistically at how and who MW affects. Times have changed.

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

I can answer that question quite easily, Hutch. Someone with no job skills that you have to train is "worth less" than minimum wage to their employer. They are in fact a negative drain on that business.

If they're worthless than don't hire them: )

 

[The Rabbi]

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

It's not clear because it's not reality. There's a MW to protect workers from D-bag employers like the one you presented.

How is preventiong workers from getting jobs protecting them? If the min wage is 10/hr I will never hire someone who isnt worth that to me. Those people will remain unemployed, which is precisely why teen unemployment is so high.
How is someone offering a job a "D-bag"? Do you think employment is a form of charity?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why do you suppose that is? It isnt that there are no jobs for those people. It's that you have people who are worth 10/hr, people worth 8/hr, people worth 5/hr and people worth 2/hr. But if you set the minimum at 10/hr you'll only hire people who are worth 10/hr. The people worth less than that wont get hired at all. Which is whyyou dont see them working at those jobs anymore.

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

I can answer that question quite easily, Hutch. Someone with no job skills that you have to train is "worth less" than minimum wage to their employer. They are in fact a negative drain on that business.

If they're worthless than don't hire them: )

Thats exactly what happens. Now you have a large class of unemployed and unemployable people who are doomed to gov't dependence for life. I think we see who the real "D-Bag" is here.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Look, MW has been around for 78 years.
You all surround it with doom and gloom like it's an unknown. Can any of you show me how your scenarios have proven to be true for each increase in those 78years?

yer an idiot

The Minimum Wage Delusion And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes

Case Against Raising The Minimum Wage - Business Insider

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

There was nothing to read.
So you can't produce any study outlining the negative affects that MW increases have had over the last 77 years, yet you all predict they will happen? Why do you suppose there is no data supporting your view?

There were two links in his post. Do you need me to repost them?

I read them both. Neither spoke to my question of how 77 years of MW increases have adversely affected our economy in the ways you all say it does.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Employment is a right despite your worth to the business ! Lol

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

It's not clear because it's not reality. There's a MW to protect workers from D-bag employers like the one you presented.

How is preventiong workers from getting jobs protecting them? If the min wage is 10/hr I will never hire someone who isnt worth that to me. Those people will remain unemployed, which is precisely why teen unemployment is so high.
How is someone offering a job a "D-bag"? Do you think employment is a form of charity?

You're simply wrong. Employers need the number of people they need to meet their obligations.
If my McDonald's needs 15 people to meet the demand for my lunch rush I'm not going to let 4 go because of a MW increase and cut my own throat. I'll keep all 15 and find a way to make it work. By your logic after a few decades of MW increases there should only be 2 people left on shift.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Employment is a right despite your worth to the business ! Lol

Employment is not the right, the wage is.
No one is forcing employers to hire anyone they don't want to.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

It's not clear because it's not reality. There's a MW to protect workers from D-bag employers like the one you presented.

How is preventiong workers from getting jobs protecting them? If the min wage is 10/hr I will never hire someone who isnt worth that to me. Those people will remain unemployed, which is precisely why teen unemployment is so high.
How is someone offering a job a "D-bag"? Do you think employment is a form of charity?

You're simply wrong. Employers need the number of people they need to meet their obligations.
If my McDonald's needs 15 people to meet the demand for my lunch rush I'm not going to let 4 go because of a MW increase and cut my own throat. I'll keep all 15 and find a way to make it work. By your logic after a few decades of MW increases there should only be 2 people left on shift.

You've never run a business, that much is clear.
"Find a way to make it work"? WTF? What does that even mean? You will raise prices to cut down on the lunch rush so you dont have to employ as many people. That is precisely what happens btw and why mn wage is racist.

 

[The Rabbi]

yer an idiot

The Minimum Wage Delusion And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes

Case Against Raising The Minimum Wage - Business Insider

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

There was nothing to read.
So you can't produce any study outlining the negative affects that MW increases have had over the last 77 years, yet you all predict they will happen? Why do you suppose there is no data supporting your view?

There were two links in his post. Do you need me to repost them?

I read them both. Neither spoke to my question of how 77 years of MW increases have adversely affected our economy in the ways you all say it does.

What would persuade you that was the case?

 

[Redfish]

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

It s not my estimation. It is the business owner's estimation. Lets say I own a car wash. I am washing cars at $5 or 10 a car. I can afford to pay up to 8/hr. But I cannot afford to pay 8/hr to a guy who maybe shows up for work on time, maybe shows up 20 minutes late, maybe doesnt show up at all. Or a guy who wants to sit on his ass and not wash cars. Or a guy just out of prison who may beat up my customers. For them, they're worth $5/hr until they can prove they show up on time sober and ready to work
Is that not clear to you?

It's not clear because it's not reality. There's a MW to protect workers from D-bag employers like the one you presented.

How is preventiong workers from getting jobs protecting them? If the min wage is 10/hr I will never hire someone who isnt worth that to me. Those people will remain unemployed, which is precisely why teen unemployment is so high.
How is someone offering a job a "D-bag"? Do you think employment is a form of charity?

You're simply wrong. Employers need the number of people they need to meet their obligations.
If my McDonald's needs 15 people to meet the demand for my lunch rush I'm not going to let 4 go because of a MW increase and cut my own throat. I'll keep all 15 and find a way to make it work. By your logic after a few decades of MW increases there should only be 2 people left on shift.

No, what they will be forced to do is to make the ordering counter computerized so no clerks are needed to take orders and payment, then several will lose their jobs in order to give the flippers and fry cookers a slightly higher wage.

 

[Redfish]

So your answer is ...." Idiot"?
77 years and not a single comprehensive report outlining the negative results of MW increases over time? Hmm..it seems like with the certainty you portray in your assessment it should be simple.

Another question.
With so many jobs being lost each time MW is increased, how is it that we have more MW jobs than ever now?

Are yu truly incapable of reading his post and understanding it?
Do you have any proof there are more min wage jobs today than ever before?

There was nothing to read.
So you can't produce any study outlining the negative affects that MW increases have had over the last 77 years, yet you all predict they will happen? Why do you suppose there is no data supporting your view?

There were two links in his post. Do you need me to repost them?

I read them both. Neither spoke to my question of how 77 years of MW increases have adversely affected our economy in the ways you all say it does.

What would persuade you that was the case?

the liberal mind is devoid of logic, you are wasting your time.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What kind of logic is this?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because you're stupid.
WHat is hard to understand about some people being worth only 5/hr or 10/hr?

Who's worth $5/hr In your estimation?
Unless you're in your 80's , MW has existed your entire lifetime. What criteria do you use to determine who is worth less than MW?

I can answer that question quite easily, Hutch. Someone with no job skills that you have to train is "worth less" than minimum wage to their employer. They are in fact a negative drain on that business.

If they're worthless than don't hire them: )

Thats exactly what happens. Now you have a large class of unemployed and unemployable people who are doomed to gov't dependence for life. I think we see who the real "D-Bag" is here.

NO! The standard for a burger flipper is the same whether the person is 16 or 60, skilled or unskilled, black or white, male or female. The person either does the job or gets fired. No one is forced out of burger flipping.