I have a question

[Book of Jeremiah]

These are all things people accept by faith.

Yep. And even with the tiniest bit of faith in Christ, so much can be accomplished.
I learned something here. I couldn't believe how many Christian people think that their sins are going to be judged in Heaven. Wouldn't that suggest that Jesus was useless and His work on the cross worthless?
And yet how faithful and strong of them to still want to follow the Lord, in spite of what they think the consequences are! It's like the little 14 yr old girl that agreed to have a son out of wedlock when the consequence was being stoned to death.

So my question to them is, how is God going to judge your sins when He has amnesia concerning every single sin you committed while you were here??

Isaiah 43:25 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.

HEBREWS 8:12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more.

Total, and complete. Forgive and forget is what you get from your Father that loves you. Mercy for your short comings, and no knowledge of any sinning while you were here.

Heaven is a sanctuary city for sinners. A safe place. Where sinners are accepted because of what Christ did, not what the sinners did.

Not so, Irish Ram. God does not have amnesia. You are mistaken. The Word of God says, Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy for without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12: 14. Paul addresses us as saints. Not sinners. Saints do not practice sin. They practice holiness.

Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commandments. He never said he'd keep them for you. He said, You keep them. If you love him, you'll keep them.

If you don't? You won't.

Many are going to say in that day, Lord, Lord, didn't we cast out demons in your name? To which he will reply, depart from me ye workers of iniquity I never knew you.

Paul is quite clear in reminding the Corinthians that they had a fornicator in their church and one not even mentioned among pagans. A man who has his fathers wife! What did Paul say? Expel the immoral brother! Why? Aren't sinners going to heaven? Not according to Paul they aren't! He states why he is turning this man over to Satan, Irish. What is the reason? So that his sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord! What would have happened otherwise? The man would have went to hell. Yet this man was a Christian. So much for the once saved always saved theology. It's a lie.

Listen, if you looked at what is going on inside some of these churches you'd realize it is the misinterpretation of scripture coupled with false teachings that has led to a very much anything goes type of christianity. It's worthless! Not only is it worthless but it has done great harm to the body of Christ not to mention the harm done to those watching from the outside.

You know, Paul told the Corinthians this: Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. 2 Corinthians 7: 1

Again, when Paul had dealt with the matter of the immoral brother in 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 12 ---> He had to warn them about the matter of holiness and did so when he told the brethren at the Corinthian church this:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 6: 9, 10.

Now this is the Apostle Paul warning the church brethren that if they do the acts of wicked men they will be in no better shape than the ones warned about in Ezekiel 3: 18 - 20 ----------> When I say to a wicked man, You will surely die, and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself. Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took the warning, and you will have saved yourself. - Ezekiel 3: 18 - 20

God changes not. He is the same today, yesterday, forever.. God does not change. He is consistent. He is Holy.

Jesus warns that those who do not overcome will have their name blotted out of the lambs book of Life. Watch this:

He who overcomes will, like them be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
- Rev. 3: 5

Why is Jesus saying this? Because our names will be blotted out of the book of life ( if we do not overcome ) and Jesus will most certainly not acknowledge our names before the Father and his angels. If we deny him before men and do not endure until the end..

Who did Jesus say would be saved? Those who endure until the end. Listen to this:

Then you will handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase in wickedness, the love of MOST will grow cold, BUT HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. - Matthew 24:9 - 13

Who will be saved? He who stands firm to the end. That is who will be saved. What will happen to the love of "most Christians"? Their love will grow cold. We are talking about a remnant here. Like the days of Noah? Yes. The earth was full of people when Noah and his family got on that ark. Realize God isn't into numbers and he isn't grading on a curve either.

There is a warfare going on that does require 100% of everything in us to be fully surrendered to Christ 24/7 to live this life and live it consistently. The Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force.

The truth is the choice was never between heaven and hell. The choice was always between heaven and this world. The love of this world is enmity with God in other words if we are in love with this world? God is our enemy. That is what the Word says.

Look at the parable of the ten virgins...

At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones too their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. At midnight the cry rang out, Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him! Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, Give us some of your oil, our lamps are gone out.

No, they replied, there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves. But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet . And the door was shut.

Later the others also came. Sir! Sir! They said, Open the door to us!

But he replied, I tell you the truth, I do not know you.

Therefore, keep watch for you do not know the hour or the day. - Matt 25: 1 - 13

One more,

It is written:

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." The words "once more" indicate that removing what can be shaken - that is created things - so that what cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire." -Hebrews 12: 25 - 29

 

[hobelim]

They were bound by pharisaic Law. They were convinced about who Christ was. Their heads belonged to Moses. Their hearts belonged to Jesus.
The stones in front of the graves of the souls in Abraham's bosom rolled back during the earthquake that occurred when Christ died on the cross, because those souls were going to need their bodies back. If only 2 came back with Him, that would be enough to convince me, but multitudes means many.

I will tell you something. Try to hear.

You are out of your mind.

If you are right then Addas, Finees, and Egias were wrong.

Somehow I will try to live with that but If I am right the news is far worse than that......

Another way a body will be coming out of it's grave is by being raptured at the sound of a horn with Christ saying, "Come hither." from the clouds.

Hate wine, but can commune with the Lord over morning tea and drink it in remembrance of what Christ did for me every day.

If you think corpses that needed new bodies were popping out of the ground when Jesus died you do not know Christ and have no understanding about scripture or the power of God.

You have deluded yourself to the point of lunacy.

As I said, you died in the very day you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a false roman triune mangod.

ever since then you have been condemned to hades where you remain to this day tormented day and night by the confusion of beliefs in things that never happened, perverse interpretations of what is actually taking place and irrational expectations for things that will never occur.

The trumpet of God sounded a long time ago. hear his voice, come out of your own serpent infested grave and evolve into a more rational being while you still have a body to ascend in.

smarten up already. face reality.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If you love the Lord you will do your best to please the Lord. The gift of salvation isn't a license to run amok. Having said that, doing our very best won't insure that we'll never sin. According to the Bible, we sin and don't even recognize it.
None of us have kept His commandments at all times. And Christ's consist of 2.
1. Love one another
2 Love God

Salvation isn't accomplished by having your sins forgiven (or not), after you die. Your sins were forgiven< (past tense) when Christ paid the debt attached to those sins, for every sin of every sinner that has ever walked this earth.
You have nothing to do with it other than contributing to the length of time Jesus hung.
You are cleansed for His sake. Not yours.

Even Abraham and King David, the apple of God's eye, had to wait to ascend to the Father until Christ paid the consequences of their sins. And they hold very lofty positions in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 5:6-8 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by whose grace we are saved. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace< (unmerited favor) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:1 &#8220;There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus&#8221;.

What would be the point of Christ dying in our place if we were going to be held responsible for our own actions anyway? For God to revisit our sin would be a slap in the face to His Son.
God promises just the opposite:

Psalm 103:10-12 He does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.

God &#8220;blots out&#8221;our sins. Blot means erased, wiped off, rubbed out:

Acts 3:19- &#8220;Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,

Isaiah 43:25 - &#8220;I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will not remember.&#8221;

Micah 7:19, &#8220;Once again you will have compassion on us. You will trample our sins under your feet and throw them into the depths of the ocean!&#8221;

"....their sins I will remember no more" is about as clear as He can be on the subject. Remember means to recall, to retain in the memory. God promises not to do that.
To say otherwise is to call God a liar. If He is telling the truth and you accept the gift of salvation brought to you by none other than Christ the Lord, then there is no sin for Him to judge you on. You are white as snow. Your sins are permanently removed by the blood of the Lamb.
If you belong to Christ, no judgement of sin awaits you. None.

If one did await you, it would be described in the Bible like the three actual Judgements ahead:
The Bema Judgement < rewards, treasures, crowns, for good things you've done in the Lord's service. < THIS is the only judgement that awaits those in Christ after they die.
The Nations Judgement< held by Christ upon His return at the battle of Armageddon.
The White Throne Judgement < Held by Christ 1,000 years after His return for those who decided to plead their case concerning their sins, without the benefit of Christ's gift of remittance of their sins.

There are no others.

There is only one child of God in Heaven that never sinned. All the rest are forgiven sinners qualifying for sainthood, through the righteous living of our brother and co-heir Jesus the Christ.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am not speaking of sinless perfection, Irish Ram. I am speaking of living holy and you and I both know that the false gospel is not teaching holy living and obedience to Christ.

Those who endure until the end the same shall be saved.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we endure, we will also reign with him, if we disown him, he will also disown us.

And again in 2 Timothy 2: 19.......everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness...

Look at the words of Jesus one more time and notice something here........



Then you will handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase in wickedness, the love of MOST will grow cold, BUT HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. - Matthew 24:9 - 13



At that time many will "turn away from the faith" and will betray and hate each other.. these are believers who are not entering in to their eternal reward even though they had accepted Christ and were in the faith prior. Why? They turned back to their sin and followed him no more.. They are the ones spoken of in Matthew 22 who the King said, Did not deserve to come. Then he invited those out on the highways and byways to come in so that his banquet hall could be filled.

These ones did not "endure until the end" as Jesus said we must. So we will endure until the end and we will enter in. Because without holiness no one is going to see the Lord. It's in the book. Let us believe God and take him at his Word. He said Be ye holy because He is holy. He didn't say heaven is a refuge for sinners. That is not a scripture, Irish Ram.

We have to stay with the Word of God here. The Word of God says in 1 John 3: 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devils works. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3: 7 - 10

Heaven is not a refuge for sinners. Heaven is the reward of the righteous who live holy unto the Lord here on earth and endure until the end.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is why we work out our own salvations with fear and trembling.. There is a Narrow Gate and a Wide Gate. One leads to heaven the other to hell:

It is written:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Matt. 7:13,14

If heaven were a refuge for sinners Jesus would not have told those who called him "Lord" - Depart from me ye workers of iniquity I never knew you.

We have to live like we are dying. ( tonight )

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

They were bound by pharisaic Law. They were convinced about who Christ was. Their heads belonged to Moses. Their hearts belonged to Jesus.
The stones in front of the graves of the souls in Abraham's bosom rolled back during the earthquake that occurred when Christ died on the cross, because those souls were going to need their bodies back. If only 2 came back with Him, that would be enough to convince me, but multitudes means many.

I will tell you something. Try to hear.

You are out of your mind.

If you are right then Addas, Finees, and Egias were wrong.

Somehow I will try to live with that but If I am right the news is far worse than that......

Another way a body will be coming out of it's grave is by being raptured at the sound of a horn with Christ saying, "Come hither." from the clouds.

Hate wine, but can commune with the Lord over morning tea and drink it in remembrance of what Christ did for me every day.

If you think corpses that needed new bodies were popping out of the ground when Jesus died you do not know Christ and have no understanding about scripture or the power of God.

You have deluded yourself to the point of lunacy.

As I said, you died in the very day you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a false roman triune mangod.

ever since then you have been condemned to hades where you remain to this day tormented day and night by the confusion of beliefs in things that never happened, perverse interpretations of what is actually taking place and irrational expectations for things that will never occur.

The trumpet of God sounded a long time ago. hear his voice, come out of your own serpent infested grave and evolve into a more rational being while you still have a body to ascend in.

smarten up already. face reality.

No, she is in her right mind and already smartened up. It is you who need to face reality, Hobelim. You are racing towards hell as if it were heaven in your sights and you are truly morally insane to believe it will not lead you to utter ruin. You need to wake up! Your dangling over hell on a thread and you don't even know it!

 

[The Irish Ram]

You little sweetie.

 

[MonaGonna]

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. ...

The bible is all hearsay, written a really long time after the events. It's just like someone today writing down Martin Luther King's speeches from memory, or word of mouth. Would be total crap wouldn't you say?

 

[Chuckt]

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. ...

The bible is all hearsay, written a really long time after the events. It's just like someone today writing down Martin Luther King's speeches from memory, or word of mouth. Would be total crap wouldn't you say?

It wasn't hearsay because Jesus had followers. Just because you say it was written down 30 years after doesn't explain a few important things. There were four manuscript families distributed to four different geographic parts of the world that no one person or group had control over. The originals were on parchment and wore out. You still have to explain how the copies that no one group controlled got to four different geographic areas of the world especially if you think that there was this mass delusion thirty years after His death and everyone got together to try to prove something. Look at your unbelief for example. You don't want to believe something if it is true. How do you get a mass delusion to cover the world unless it is true? We're talking 20,000+ manuscripts in the world probably of which 5,686 are the new testament. Then you have the writings of the Church fathers which even if you lost the Bible, you could reconstruct the Bible from the Church father's words.

Back then money was an issue. Leather was good for clothing. How many animals had to die for a 100 foot scroll? How much did that cost? You want to pay for that on a world wide basis?

Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian.

Biblical manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They had unbelief at first because they killed Jesus. Then He rose and they believed because only God has power over death and the Romans knew death because they practiced death on crosses.

No it wasn't hearsay. They practiced memorization. I knew an engineer who memorized half the book of John and he said it to me word for word really fast as if he was reading but he wasn't. If that was his job, he could have done more. There are pastors who have taught for a long time. One of them had his eyesight go and even though he couldn't see, he gave the Bible study word for word.

 

[MonaGonna]

The bible is all hearsay, written a really long time after the events. It's just like someone today writing down Martin Luther King's speeches from memory, or word of mouth. Would be total crap wouldn't you say?

It wasn't hearsay because Jesus had followers. Just because you say it was written down 30 years after doesn't explain a few important things. There were four manuscript families distributed to four different geographic parts of the world that no one person or group had control over. The originals were on parchment and wore out. You still have to explain how the copies that no one group controlled got to four different geographic areas of the world especially if you think that there was this mass delusion thirty years after His death and everyone got together to try to prove something. Look at your unbelief for example. You don't want to believe something if it is true. How do you get a mass delusion to cover the world unless it is true? We're talking 20,000+ manuscripts in the world probably of which 5,686 are the new testament. Then you have the writings of the Church fathers which even if you lost the Bible, you could reconstruct the Bible from the Church father's words.

Back then money was an issue. Leather was good for clothing. How many animals had to die for a 100 foot scroll? How much did that cost? You want to pay for that on a world wide basis?

Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian.

Biblical manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They had unbelief at first because they killed Jesus. Then He rose and they believed because only God has power over death and the Romans knew death because they practiced death on crosses.

No it wasn't hearsay. They practiced memorization. I knew an engineer who memorized half the book of John and he said it to me word for word really fast as if he was reading but he wasn't. If that was his job, he could have done more. There are pastors who have taught for a long time. One of them had his eyesight go and even though he couldn't see, he gave the Bible study word for word.

From your link the earliest of the 5,800 manuscripts dates to 125AD.

"most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes - altogether many thousands of mistakes."

"There has been an estimate of 400,000 variations among all these manuscripts"

"The New Testament books appear to have been completed within the 1st century. However, the original manuscripts of the New Testament books do not survive today."

"The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business card sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which dates to the first half of the 2nd century. The first complete copies of single New Testament books appear around 200, and the earliest complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to the 4th century"



.

 

[hobelim]

They were bound by pharisaic Law. They were convinced about who Christ was. Their heads belonged to Moses. Their hearts belonged to Jesus.
The stones in front of the graves of the souls in Abraham's bosom rolled back during the earthquake that occurred when Christ died on the cross, because those souls were going to need their bodies back. If only 2 came back with Him, that would be enough to convince me, but multitudes means many.

I will tell you something. Try to hear.

You are out of your mind.






Somehow I will try to live with that but If I am right the news is far worse than that......

Another way a body will be coming out of it's grave is by being raptured at the sound of a horn with Christ saying, "Come hither." from the clouds.

Hate wine, but can commune with the Lord over morning tea and drink it in remembrance of what Christ did for me every day.

If you think corpses that needed new bodies were popping out of the ground when Jesus died you do not know Christ and have no understanding about scripture or the power of God.

You have deluded yourself to the point of lunacy.

As I said, you died in the very day you first got down on your knees in deranged adoration before a false roman triune mangod.

ever since then you have been condemned to hades where you remain to this day tormented day and night by the confusion of beliefs in things that never happened, perverse interpretations of what is actually taking place and irrational expectations for things that will never occur.

The trumpet of God sounded a long time ago. hear his voice, come out of your own serpent infested grave and evolve into a more rational being while you still have a body to ascend in.

smarten up already. face reality.

No, she is in her right mind and already smartened up. It is you who need to face reality, Hobelim. You are racing towards hell as if it were heaven in your sights and you are truly morally insane to believe it will not lead you to utter ruin. You need to wake up! Your dangling over hell on a thread and you don't even know it!

wow, sounds really scary. What should I do to be saved?

If I 'just believe' that God diddled a virgin to father himself so he could become fully human without a human father just to grow up to teach people to do the exact opposite of what he already taught people for thousands of years through Moses and all the prophets, brought corpses out of the ground, performed some magic tricks, hosted a magical fish sandwich party out of thin air, and then floated up into the sky after he turned himself into an edible snack food and then I could lose my rational mind too and become an irrational gibbering idiot with no worries waiting to float up into the sky to meet Jesus at 30,000 feet any minute otherwise I'm going to burn forever in hell?


Not by the hairs of my chinny chin chin......

I'd rather be drawn and quartered.

 

[MonaGonna]

"I'd rather be drawn and quartered."

You will be... in Hell!

 

[hobelim]

"I'd rather be drawn and quartered."

You will be... in Hell!

Woe is me!

But at least you and every other truth and life loving unbeliever be there with me......

 

[Chuckt]

The bible is all hearsay, written a really long time after the events. It's just like someone today writing down Martin Luther King's speeches from memory, or word of mouth. Would be total crap wouldn't you say?

It wasn't hearsay because Jesus had followers. Just because you say it was written down 30 years after doesn't explain a few important things. There were four manuscript families distributed to four different geographic parts of the world that no one person or group had control over. The originals were on parchment and wore out. You still have to explain how the copies that no one group controlled got to four different geographic areas of the world especially if you think that there was this mass delusion thirty years after His death and everyone got together to try to prove something. Look at your unbelief for example. You don't want to believe something if it is true. How do you get a mass delusion to cover the world unless it is true? We're talking 20,000+ manuscripts in the world probably of which 5,686 are the new testament. Then you have the writings of the Church fathers which even if you lost the Bible, you could reconstruct the Bible from the Church father's words.

Back then money was an issue. Leather was good for clothing. How many animals had to die for a 100 foot scroll? How much did that cost? You want to pay for that on a world wide basis?

Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian.

Biblical manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They had unbelief at first because they killed Jesus. Then He rose and they believed because only God has power over death and the Romans knew death because they practiced death on crosses.

No it wasn't hearsay. They practiced memorization. I knew an engineer who memorized half the book of John and he said it to me word for word really fast as if he was reading but he wasn't. If that was his job, he could have done more. There are pastors who have taught for a long time. One of them had his eyesight go and even though he couldn't see, he gave the Bible study word for word.

From your link the earliest of the 5,800 manuscripts dates to 125AD.

"most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes - altogether many thousands of mistakes."

"There has been an estimate of 400,000 variations among all these manuscripts"

"The New Testament books appear to have been completed within the 1st century. However, the original manuscripts of the New Testament books do not survive today."

"The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business card sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which dates to the first half of the 2nd century. The first complete copies of single New Testament books appear around 200, and the earliest complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to the 4th century"



.

I just used Wikipedia to help remember the number of manuscripts. They aren't always known for their scholarship because they are average day Joes that write it.

There are 125,000 variants and they don't affect 99% of the Bible.

Let us suppose we have five manuscript copies of an original document that no longer exists. Each of the manuscript copies are different. Our goal is to compare the manuscript copies and ascertain what the original must have said. Here are the five copies:
Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole worl.

Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is th Savior of the whle world.

Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole wrld.

Could you, by comparing the manuscript copies, ascertain what the original document said with a high degree of certainty that you are correct? Of course you could.

Manuscript Evidence for the Bible (by Ron Rhodes)

This link you can trust. He has a doctorate and translated the Bible in college and got almost word for word.

 

[MonaGonna]

It wasn't hearsay because Jesus had followers. Just because you say it was written down 30 years after doesn't explain a few important things. There were four manuscript families distributed to four different geographic parts of the world that no one person or group had control over. The originals were on parchment and wore out. You still have to explain how the copies that no one group controlled got to four different geographic areas of the world especially if you think that there was this mass delusion thirty years after His death and everyone got together to try to prove something. Look at your unbelief for example. You don't want to believe something if it is true. How do you get a mass delusion to cover the world unless it is true? We're talking 20,000+ manuscripts in the world probably of which 5,686 are the new testament. Then you have the writings of the Church fathers which even if you lost the Bible, you could reconstruct the Bible from the Church father's words.

Back then money was an issue. Leather was good for clothing. How many animals had to die for a 100 foot scroll? How much did that cost? You want to pay for that on a world wide basis?



Biblical manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They had unbelief at first because they killed Jesus. Then He rose and they believed because only God has power over death and the Romans knew death because they practiced death on crosses.

No it wasn't hearsay. They practiced memorization. I knew an engineer who memorized half the book of John and he said it to me word for word really fast as if he was reading but he wasn't. If that was his job, he could have done more. There are pastors who have taught for a long time. One of them had his eyesight go and even though he couldn't see, he gave the Bible study word for word.

From your link the earliest of the 5,800 manuscripts dates to 125AD.

"most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes - altogether many thousands of mistakes."

"There has been an estimate of 400,000 variations among all these manuscripts"

"The New Testament books appear to have been completed within the 1st century. However, the original manuscripts of the New Testament books do not survive today."

"The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business card sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which dates to the first half of the 2nd century. The first complete copies of single New Testament books appear around 200, and the earliest complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to the 4th century"



.

I just used Wikipedia to help remember the number of manuscripts. They aren't always known for their scholarship because they are average day Joes that write it.

There are 125,000 variants and they don't affect 99% of the Bible.

Let us suppose we have five manuscript copies of an original document that no longer exists. Each of the manuscript copies are different. Our goal is to compare the manuscript copies and ascertain what the original must have said. Here are the five copies:
Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole worl.

Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is th Savior of the whle world.

Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole wrld.

Could you, by comparing the manuscript copies, ascertain what the original document said with a high degree of certainty that you are correct? Of course you could.

Manuscript Evidence for the Bible (by Ron Rhodes)

This link you can trust. He has a doctorate and translated the Bible in college and got almost word for word.

Sorry, but that link is all conjecture. Nothing scientific about that. Next.

 

[Chuckt]

From your link the earliest of the 5,800 manuscripts dates to 125AD.

"most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes - altogether many thousands of mistakes."

"There has been an estimate of 400,000 variations among all these manuscripts"

"The New Testament books appear to have been completed within the 1st century. However, the original manuscripts of the New Testament books do not survive today."

"The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business card sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which dates to the first half of the 2nd century. The first complete copies of single New Testament books appear around 200, and the earliest complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to the 4th century"



.

I just used Wikipedia to help remember the number of manuscripts. They aren't always known for their scholarship because they are average day Joes that write it.

There are 125,000 variants and they don't affect 99% of the Bible.

Let us suppose we have five manuscript copies of an original document that no longer exists. Each of the manuscript copies are different. Our goal is to compare the manuscript copies and ascertain what the original must have said. Here are the five copies:
Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole worl.

Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is th Savior of the whle world.

Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole wrld.

Could you, by comparing the manuscript copies, ascertain what the original document said with a high degree of certainty that you are correct? Of course you could.

Manuscript Evidence for the Bible (by Ron Rhodes)

This link you can trust. He has a doctorate and translated the Bible in college and got almost word for word.

Sorry, but that link is all conjecture. Nothing scientific about that. Next.

It is expert testimony by an expert by someone who reads the original language who is credentialed and has multiple degrees. He's the real deal.

 

[BreezeWood]

Back then money was an issue. Leather was good for clothing. How many animals had to die for a 100 foot scroll? How much did that cost? You want to pay for that on a world wide basis?

the above is a lame excuse at best.

Stone was not expensive, and was used to preserve posterity for truly perceived valued treasures ...

"etched in stone" - the 10 commandments, where are those - even as forgeries ? did they not comply with "holy" scripture in latter years, a good guess ... and most certainly were destroyed.

being lost or "worn" out has its advantages ...

 

[MonaGonna]

I just used Wikipedia to help remember the number of manuscripts. They aren't always known for their scholarship because they are average day Joes that write it.

There are 125,000 variants and they don't affect 99% of the Bible.



Manuscript Evidence for the Bible (by Ron Rhodes)

This link you can trust. He has a doctorate and translated the Bible in college and got almost word for word.

Sorry, but that link is all conjecture. Nothing scientific about that. Next.

It is expert testimony by an expert by someone who reads the original language who is credentialed and has multiple degrees. He's the real deal.

I didn't see his opinion backed up by anything substantial, like scientific proof.

 

[Chuckt]

Sorry, but that link is all conjecture. Nothing scientific about that. Next.

It is expert testimony by an expert by someone who reads the original language who is credentialed and has multiple degrees. He's the real deal.

I didn't see his opinion backed up by anything substantial, like scientific proof.

He started a seminary with Dr. Norman Geisler. Not many people can do that these days.
They're the closest thing to an authority on the Bible.

What is your authority?

 

[MonaGonna]

It is expert testimony by an expert by someone who reads the original language who is credentialed and has multiple degrees. He's the real deal.

I didn't see his opinion backed up by anything substantial, like scientific proof.

He started a seminary with Dr. Norman Geisler. Not many people can do that these days.
They're the closest thing to an authority on the Bible.

What is your authority?

I'm a proof kind of a person. So what if he started a seminary...? That's not proof. Next.