I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Samson]

Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.

samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.

And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.

No right? You're a moron. Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress. I know my son has a 98 in this class. If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed. It would then be too late to address and correct any issues. But you already knew that.

View attachment 12000

View attachment 12001

Edline?

We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.

We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."

As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?

Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?

So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.

 

[kwc57]

No right? You're a moron. Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress. I know my son has a 98 in this class. If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed. It would then be too late to address and correct any issues. But you already knew that.

View attachment 12000

View attachment 12001

Edline?

We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.

We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."

As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?

Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?

So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.

It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days. In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy. There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher. All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned. Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded. Nothing comes home. This all started in junior high. In elementary school, they brought work home. My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program. He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning. Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it. I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.

 

[saveliberty]

I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education. Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that. Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week. That person is called "Boss".

Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress? Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something? Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.

Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.

samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.

And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.

Speaking as someone who actually sits on a school board and helps set such policies for an actual school I can tell you that you are wrong. Samson , or ANY parent has EVERY right to know how their child is doing in school. And frankly if the teachers at his child's school aren't grading papers on a weekly basis then how do THEY know how each child is doing, and if they don't know how each child is doing, how do they know what to teach?

Now if they ARE grading papers on a weekly basis, what is the problem with sending those graded papers home for Samson to review at the end of each week? Is Samson asking for a detailed written weekly report from each teacher, or a simple synopsis of his child's progress?

I would vote to fire a teacher who wouldn't attempt to comply with a concerned parent's simple request.

I personally would want to know, if they're NOT doing graded papers on a weekly basis, what the fuck ARE they doing with their class time? What exactly is happening in that classroom that doesn't involve any written work at all?

 

[ConHog]

Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.

But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test. It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)

Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.

 

[Ravi]

I still find it hard to believe that parents need to micromanage a tenth grader.

These are the kids that will still be living at home when they are thirty because they can't take responsibility for their own lives.

 

[chanel]

I'm just baffled by where the papers go. I often grade and return papers before the students leave or the very next day.

My paperwork management style is OHIO - only handle it once.

Honestly. I doubt if the kids are doing nothing. That would be chaos. So where do all the papers go????

 

[Cecilie1200]

I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education. Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that. Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.

I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not. We're talking about MY KID. Mine. Not theirs. I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.

But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test. It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)

Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.

I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes. For some classes, there was even more written work involved.

I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized. I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.

 

[ConHog]

Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.

But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test. It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)

Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.

I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes. For some classes, there was even more written work involved.

I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized. I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.

I was speaking about the way high schools start getting a student transitioned around the 10th grade, getting them used to the idea that mommy and daddy aren't looking over their shoulders to make sure they do their work. That is the idea behind not sending home the same amount of paperwork in the 10th grade as in the 7th grade, for example.

 

[sangha]

There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week. That person is called "Boss".

Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress? Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something? Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.

Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.

samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.

And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.

Speaking as someone who actually sits on a school board and helps set such policies for an actual school I can tell you that you are wrong. Samson , or ANY parent has EVERY right to know how their child is doing in school. And frankly if the teachers at his child's school aren't grading papers on a weekly basis then how do THEY know how each child is doing, and if they don't know how each child is doing, how do they know what to teach?

Now if they ARE grading papers on a weekly basis, what is the problem with sending those graded papers home for Samson to review at the end of each week? Is Samson asking for a detailed written weekly report from each teacher, or a simple synopsis of his child's progress?

I would vote to fire a teacher who wouldn't attempt to comply with a concerned parent's simple request.

Yes, every parent has a right to know how their child is doing. No, parents do not have the right to demand that the status be in the form of graded papers/test/etc.

And from I've seen posted, there is good reason to believe that a HS student does NOT have a graded paper or test every week in every class. I know it wasn't like that for me in HS.

"I'd like to be informed about my childs performance on a weekly basis" is a reasonable request. "I demand that every teacher give graded assignements every week and send me my childs results" is not.

 

[squeeze berry]

i agree with this. ^

After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.

Sampson started making demands first week of class.

Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....

There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week. That person is called "Boss".

Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress? Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something? Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.

Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.

However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to restart the process.

As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.

Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.

my guess is that if you had not acted like an ass from the beginning you would have received your request sooner.

 

[squeeze berry]

I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education. Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that. Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.

I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not. We're talking about MY KID. Mine. Not theirs. I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.

it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.

Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.

You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....

Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.

BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.

 

[Annie]

I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education. Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that. Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.

I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not. We're talking about MY KID. Mine. Not theirs. I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.

it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.

Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.

You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....

Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.

BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.

Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.

Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.

 

[Samson]

I'm just baffled by where the papers go. I often grade and return papers before the students leave or the very next day.

My paperwork management style is OHIO - only handle it once.

Honestly. I doubt if the kids are doing nothing. That would be chaos. So where do all the papers go????

Agreed: I cannot imagine teachers NOT grading work, at LEAST once per week. On the other hand if they are, then WHERE are the papers? Not just one, or two, or three, but I've not seen papers for FOUR weeks in some classes!!

 

[Samson]

There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week. That person is called "Boss".

Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress? Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something? Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.

Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.

However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to restart the process.

As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.

Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.

my guess is that if you had not acted like an ass from the beginning you would have received your request sooner.

My guess is you haven't dealt much with bureaucracy.

 

[Samson]

Edline?

We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.

We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."

As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?

Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?

So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.

It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days. In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy. There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher. All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned. Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded. Nothing comes home. This all started in junior high. In elementary school, they brought work home. My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program. He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning. Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it. I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.

I don't think you'll have what is often a common problem with kids you've described: The AP/Gifted/College Prep classes become havens for the "good kids," who are protected by their teachers with good grades.

If a teacher is given an AP class, the first thing they'll notice is the absence of serious behaviour problems. In fact, the relative maturity of these students make them a joy to see, much less teach, and even much much less give a grade of "C." Teachers that make sure these students get a "B" or above, will enjoy their company for the entire year. Teachers who give them a "C" risk having their AP classes decimated to the extent they may find themselves teaching REGULAR STUDENTS.

The coddled AP classes graduate, go to the university, and struggle (and even fail) through their freshman year.

 

[Samson]

Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.

But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test. It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)

Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.

I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes. For some classes, there was even more written work involved.

I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized. I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.

I was speaking about the way high schools start getting a student transitioned around the 10th grade, getting them used to the idea that mommy and daddy aren't looking over their shoulders to make sure they do their work. That is the idea behind not sending home the same amount of paperwork in the 10th grade as in the 7th grade, for example.

At one time I would agree here.....but, I wonder how that's been working for us?

Have students become better prepared for college because parents are looking over their shoulders less?

Actually, I think it might be a better idea to have MORE parental involvement in high school, and LESS in Elementary.

 

[Ravi]

We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."

As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?

Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?

So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.

It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days. In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy. There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher. All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned. Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded. Nothing comes home. This all started in junior high. In elementary school, they brought work home. My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program. He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning. Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it. I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.

I don't think you'll have what is often a common problem with kids you've described: The AP/Gifted/College Prep classes become havens for the "good kids," who are protected by their teachers with good grades.

If a teacher is given an AP class, the first thing they'll notice is the absence of serious behaviour problems. In fact, the relative maturity of these students make them a joy to see, much less teach, and even much much less give a grade of "C." Teachers that make sure these students get a "B" or above, will enjoy their company for the entire year. Teachers who give them a "C" risk having their AP classes decimated to the extent they may find themselves teaching REGULAR STUDENTS.

The coddled AP classes graduate, go to the university, and struggle (and even fail) through their freshman year.

You're an idiot. Most teachers that teach AP classes also teach regular classes.

Your hatred of teachers is evident.

 

[Samson]

I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not. We're talking about MY KID. Mine. Not theirs. I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.

it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.

Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.

You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....

Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.

BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.

Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.

Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.

The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.

I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" to teach!

Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood, explicitely, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?