I Really Don't Understand The Left

[westwall]

Putting people to work in the public sector to build the nation's infrastructure and price controls is proven to always work, when done correctly. It worked in Germany in the 1930s after its economy collapsed in the 1920s, it worked here during WW2, and there was plenty of government involvement in the economy after the American Revolutionary War in the late 1700s and early 19th century. Our country would've been stillborn economically and unable to compete with Europe, if not for Uncle Sam.

After WW2 It wasn't the "invisible hand" of the "free market" that got Western Europe and Japan back on its feet economically, but heavy government intervention. South Korea also had plenty of government involvement in the economy to become what it is today.

China now has the second-largest economy in the world, and it's America's top competitor. It didn't get to where it is today economically through laissez-faire capitalism. There's PLENTY of government involvement in the Chinese economy.

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A nation that tried to develop its economy strictly with the "invisible hand" of the "free market", was Russia after the demise of the USSR. They went through what is called "shock therapy" (The immediate implementation of laissez-faire capitalism). Until Putin arrived in 2000, post-Soviet Russia was getting raped economically by a cabal of local and foreign billionaires and politicians. They were being looted by the "free market" until Putin arrived and said "NO MORE".

View attachment 876525​

The major centers of economic power, namely the industries that are vital to Russia's economy (finance, energy, mining..etc.), were nationalized. Now practically all of those heavy industries are at least 40% in the hands of the government (state-owned).

• 
  Aeroflot (Airline) - 51.173% ownership
• All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (Broadcasting) - State ownership
• Almaz-Antey (Aerospace & Defense) - 100% ownership
• ALROSA (Mining) - 43.9256% ownership
• Atomflot (Shipping) - State ownership
• AvtoVAZ (Automotive) - 100% ownership
• FGC UES (Energy) - 75% ownership
• Gazprom (Oil and Gas) - 50.23% ownership
• Inter RAO (Electricity) - State ownership
• Kamaz (Automotive) - State ownership
• Mining and Chemical Combine (Mining) - State ownership
• Mosenergo (Electricity) - State ownership
• Novorossiysk Commercial Sea Port (Shipping) - 20.0001% ownership
• Rosatom (Nuclear Energy) - 100% ownership
• Roscosmos (Space) - 100% ownership
• Rosneft (Oil and Gas) - 50% ownership
• Rosselkhozbank (Banking) - 71.9873% ownership
• Rosseti (Electric Power) - 88% ownership
• Rostec (Mixed) - 100% ownership
• Rostelecom (Telecommunications) - 56.8% ownership
• RusHydro (Electric Utility) - 60.4% ownership
• Rusnano (Nanotechnology) - 100% ownership
• Russian Agricultural Bank (Infrastructure) - 72.4% ownership
• Russian Highways (Infrastructure) - 100% ownership
• Russian Post (Letter Post) - 100% ownership
• Russian Railways (Infrastructure) - 100% ownership
• Sberbank of Russia (Banking) - 51% ownership
• Sevmash (Shipbuilding) - 48.4966% ownership
• Sovcomflot (Shipping) - 100% ownership
• Tactical Missiles Corporation (Defense) - 100% ownership
• Transneft (Oil and Gas) - 100% ownership
• United Aircraft Corporation (Aerospace) - 91.11514696% ownership
• United Grain Company (Trading) - 50% ownership
• United Shipbuilding Corporation (Shipbuilding) - 100% ownership
• Uralvagonzavod (Defense) - 100% ownership
• Vnesheconombank (Financial Services) - 100% ownership
• VTB Bank (Banking) - 60.9% ownership.

What's the result of the above government involvement in the Russian economy? This:

View attachment 876526​

In 1998, Russia was experiencing the aftermath of the financial crisis that occurred in August of that year. This crisis led to a significant devaluation of the ruble and a default on domestic debt. The economic turmoil of this period did prompt a reevaluation of the post-Soviet privatization policies that had, to some extent, facilitated the rise of oligarchs and often lacked transparency and fairness. While there wasn't an immediate and explicit move toward nationalizing industries in 1998, the crisis and its aftermath did lead to increased state involvement, which led to increased confidence in the market, hence GDP improved.

When Putin took office, he nationalized most of the major industries in the country, and the graph speaks for itself. Russia's GDP skyrocketed and it's now, despite the American/EU sanctions, continuing to improve. So your assertion that government involvement in the economy undermines it, is laughable, if not pathetic. You're delusional. It's you who doesn't have a clue about real-world economics, thinking that the "invisible hand", the irrational, chaos of the market is enough to grow and run a nation's economy.

Putin is a staunch Russian nationalist and patriot, hence the economy must serve the Russian people. The market is centered, not on the private pursuit of profits, but on serving the nation. What's best in the long-term for Russia (The Russian people). If we truly love America, that's how we should think concerning our market economy. What's best for the American public, not what is best for a few greedy billionaires, who don't give a shit about America. The wealthy elites are internationalists, their allegiance is to their pocketbooks. They will hop on their private jets and mega-yachts and leave to their private Islands or Singapore.

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Oh look, the fake Christian is actually a Marxist!

 

[westwall]

Fascists or national socialists, are also statists, so you're obviously confused. Statism can be leftist/Marxist or right-wing fascist.

No, it can't. The opposite of statism is no government, you blithering idiot.

Now I remember who you really are.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Thats grade school BS.
View attachment 876604

Your chart is wrong, because Marx defined communism as a stateless society, without economic classes or the need for money. Here let me help you out:

" Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6...."

The leftist-Marxist "withering away of the state" concept:

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your claim that statism is always leftist or that leftism is always statist is wrong.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Oh look, the fake Christian is actually a Marxist!

I'm not a Marxist or a Christian. Who the hell calls himself "Christian Man", that's the cheesiest nickname ever, no one seriously calls themselves that.

 

[westwall]

Your chart is wrong, because Marx defined communism as a stateless society, without economic classes or the need for money. Here let me help you out:
" Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6...."
The leftist-Marxist "withering away of the state" concept:

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your claim that statism is always leftist or that leftism is always statist is wrong.

As you spew Fabian socialist propaganda.

What's the opposite of total government?

NO government.

So simple a moron can understand.

So why can't you?

 

[TNHarley]

Your claim that statism is always leftist or that leftism is always statist is wrong.

No it isnt.

 

[westwall]

I'm not a Marxist or a Christian. Who the hell calls himself "Christian Man", that's the cheesiest nickname ever, no one seriously calls themselves that.

Yeah, you are. Every post you make proves it. Marxism is your God.

You're that douchebag that used to have Hitler as your avi.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Only douchebags include the effects of Covid in their claims about Trump's record.

Was Trump not the president in 2020?

 

[TruthNotBS]

As you spew Fabian socialist propaganda.

What's the opposite of total government?

NO government.

So simple a moron can understand.

So why can't you?

Your punk ass refuses to accept the fact that the Marxist definition of communism is stateless and includes the "withering away of the state", so saying that Marxism is statism, exposes you as a fucking retard.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yeah, you are. Every post you make proves it. Marxism is your God.

You're that douchebag that used to have Hitler as your avi.

You're projecting your own worship of Marx on me. Just because you worship Marx doesn't imply I do. Just because you're a piece of shit "douchebag" doesn't imply I'm like you. You're a worthless ignorant retard.

 

[westwall]

Your punk ass refuses to accept the fact that the Marxist definition of communism is stateless and includes the "withering away of the state", so saying that Marxism is statism, exposes you as a fucking retardavid.

Your dumbass just refuses to acknowledge reality.

Total government is one side of the balance.

No government is the opposite side.

You advocate for government power to force people to bow to your demands.

That makes you a fascist. But fascism, communism (as practiced), socialism, are all the same house. They are just painted different colors.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No, it can't. The opposite of statism is no government, you blithering idiot.

Now I remember who you really are.

Duh, and that's how Marx defined communism. No state/stateless. Hence you're the imbecile spewing drivel.

 

[westwall]

You're projecting your own worship of Marx on me. Just because you worship Marx doesn't imply I do. Just because you're a piece of shit "douchebag" doesn't imply I'm like you. You're a worthless ignorant retard.

I worship nothing but true capitalism. And as little government power as possible.

You project more than a movie camera, skippy.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Your dumbass just refuses to acknowledge reality.

Total government is one side of the balance.

No government is the opposite side.

You advocate for government power to force people to bow to your demands.

That makes you a fascist. But fascism, communism (as practiced), socialism, are all the same house. They are just painted different colors.

Marx defines communism as a society without a state, so again you're a fucking retard. You want private companies, and billionaires to rule the roost. I prefer a government that holds elections to be the authority of the land, rather than a few un-accountable fieflords. You're clearly the one for blind, unaccountable authoritarianism. I believe in nationalism, a government that serves the interests of the nation, and its people, rather than a government that serves the wealthy at the expense of the public good.

All you can do is insult people hiding behind your computer like a coward and punk.

 

[Blues Man]

The "Left" doesn't really understand the "Left"

 

[TruthNotBS]

I worship nothing but true capitalism. And as little government power as possible.

You project more than a movie camera, skippy.

You worship capitalism? No wonder you're so dumb. I'd rather worship the state or a government, the nation itself, than a few unaccountable self-serving billionaires. At least the state government that I approve of is accountable to me through an electoral process.

 

[TNHarley]

Your dumbass just refuses to acknowledge reality.

Total government is one side of the balance.

No government is the opposite side.

You advocate for government power to force people to bow to your demands.

That makes you a fascist. But fascism, communism (as practiced), socialism, are all the same house. They are just painted different colors.

He isnt considering how communism abolishes everything by taking everything away from people. They do it using the government. They do it using the military and they will kill everyone who gets in there way.
That certainly isnt right wing.

 

[westwall]

Marx defines communism as a society without a state, so again you're a fucking retard. You want private companies, and billionaires to rule the roost. I prefer a government that holds elections to be the authority of the land, rather than a few un-accountable fieflords. You're clearly the one for blind, unaccountable authoritarianism. I believe in nationalism, a government that serves the interests of the nation, and its people, rather than a government that serves the wealthy at the expense of the public good.

All you can do is insult people hiding behind your computer like a coward and punk.

Who cares what that lazy fuck said. He was a stupid buffoon.

Just. Like. You.

 

[TruthNotBS]

He isnt considering how communism abolishes everything by taking everything away from people. They do it using the government. They do it using the military and they will kill everyone who gets in there way.
That certainly isnt right wing.

I'm not a communist, but nonetheless, you're wrong for saying leftists are only statists when Marxist communism is non-statist. In communism, only private property is prohibited, not personal property. So again, you continually expose your ignorance of the subject.

 

[westwall]

He isnt considering how communism abolishes everything by taking everything away from people. They do it using the government. They do it using the military and they will kill everyone who gets in there way.
That certainly isnt right wing.

Of course it isn't. He is your typical leftist. Long on religious fervor, short on real knowledge.

This IS the guy that has been banned repeatedly who loves to use the picture of Hitler as his avatar.