I was wrong... the health of the mother is not valid for an abortion.

[OnePercenter]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

Abortion is between a woman, her Doctor, and her God. It's none of my business and certainly not yours. Period!

Great, then the woman, her doctor or her God ought to pay for it...dumbass.

Why?

 

[Grumblenuts]

This is from another thread discussing abortion that I posted earlier which relates to this thread.... I'd love to hear what Christians or Jews think of the Bible passage at the end??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago, one of our members posted scripture, from the book of Numbers, regarding abortion.... that I was actually shocked to read.... I did not know this topic even existed in the Bible...

In this passage, if you believe the Bible is God written, or the Word of God, written down by Man....

God's Law, is advocating abortion in the case of marital infidelity, or perceived marital infidelity by the wife with another man....

If the husband suspects the wife had sexual intercourse with another man and is overcome with jealousy, then he was suppose to bring his wife, before the Priest, and the Priest gave her a concoction to drink called Bitter Water, that forced a Miscarriage on her.

THAT IS ABORTION

This blew my mind! I found myself contemplating why would God, give permission for this alleged pregnant woman.... being forced in to killing her baby to be, just because it could have been, another father, not even known for certain that the wife was cheating, or the baby was not the husband's child?

And why would God have the Priest, use an abortion concoction of Bitter Water, on this woman, and this baby to be.... if it were MURDER? Or killing a baby? Was it not considered a human life yet? was it not considered a baby yet?

What was the purpose of this forced miscarriage, abortion?

Was it because the husband should not be forced to financially take care of this child that is possibly not his, until adulthood? Was it because the child would be hated by the husband and not be given a healthy and stable childhood?

I am baffled!


Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorialc]">[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

If God himself came down and stated "I have no problem with abortion", I would still be pro-life.

I do not believe anyone in any circumstance should have the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense.

As for the passage, quess what happened in every instance? She was declared clean as no amount of water will cause an abortion. Not even "bitter water".

Oh, would no amount of water "take" your life, Dr. Buddinsky? Would you like for Dr. HolierThanThou to come in and test that theory by waterboarding you for the next hour or so? Oh, what's wrong? Suddenly having a Hippocratic oath meltdown?

 

[OnePercenter]

Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions

Abortion is between a woman, her Doctor, and her God. It's none of my business and certainly not yours. Period!

And it’s certainly not the business of government.

In restricting it, yes.

 

[wamose]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

 

[OnePercenter]

This is from another thread discussing abortion that I posted earlier which relates to this thread.... I'd love to hear what Christians or Jews think of the Bible passage at the end??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago, one of our members posted scripture, from the book of Numbers, regarding abortion.... that I was actually shocked to read.... I did not know this topic even existed in the Bible...

In this passage, if you believe the Bible is God written, or the Word of God, written down by Man....

God's Law, is advocating abortion in the case of marital infidelity, or perceived marital infidelity by the wife with another man....

If the husband suspects the wife had sexual intercourse with another man and is overcome with jealousy, then he was suppose to bring his wife, before the Priest, and the Priest gave her a concoction to drink called Bitter Water, that forced a Miscarriage on her.

THAT IS ABORTION

This blew my mind! I found myself contemplating why would God, give permission for this alleged pregnant woman.... being forced in to killing her baby to be, just because it could have been, another father, not even known for certain that the wife was cheating, or the baby was not the husband's child?

And why would God have the Priest, use an abortion concoction of Bitter Water, on this woman, and this baby to be.... if it were MURDER? Or killing a baby? Was it not considered a human life yet? was it not considered a baby yet?

What was the purpose of this forced miscarriage, abortion?

Was it because the husband should not be forced to financially take care of this child that is possibly not his, until adulthood? Was it because the child would be hated by the husband and not be given a healthy and stable childhood?

I am baffled!


Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorialc]">[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

If God himself came down and stated "I have no problem with abortion", I would still be pro-life.

I do not believe anyone in any circumstance should have the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense.

As for the passage, quess what happened in every instance? She was declared clean as no amount of water will cause an abortion. Not even "bitter water".

I would still be pro-life.

Fairy tales before intellect? Or, like tRump, you like to grab women by the pussy?

 

[OnePercenter]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

Written like a true misogynist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Why would having "no business associated with abortions" be a better candidate? Why would this person be more trusted by a woman? The doctors in Ireland let a woman die. The loss of her life led to the change of law in Ireland.

in the case of late term abortion a doctor who has nothing to do with abortion has already told the woman she needs an abortion.

Her obstetrician has told her. That doctor has nothing to do with abortion.

The demand that a doctor who has nothing to do with abortion has already been met.

No woman who is that far along goes to an abortion doctor without being referred to one by an obstetrician first.

No woman goes to an abortion doctor in her last trimester unless there is very detailed documentation of the life threatening condition or the extremely serious problem with the fetus. No abortion doctor does that. That has already been factually documented by an obstetrician.

What condition might this be?

My cousin's wife was in the last trimester of a very planned and wanted pregnancy. The cord got wrapped around the neck of the fetus and strangled it. She had to have a late term abortion to save her life.

If that fetus had stayed in her until it spontaneously aborted, a bacteria called paratinitus will grow and kill her. If it's caught soon enough she will be lucky and not die but will be left infertile. So to save her life and preserve her fertility she had a late term abortion. In fact she had what was called a partial birth abortion. This was in the 90s. If she had not had that abortion she would have either died or been left infertile and her 2 children wouldn't have been born.

On the other end of pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy has only 2 outcomes. Either she has an abortion or the woman dies. If she's lucky and can get to a hospital quick enough she might live but will be left infertile for life.

There are so many life threatening conditions that can force a pregnancy to be terminated in the last trimester. It doesn't happen often. It's only like 1% of all abortions performed in America. For the reason that Roe V. Wade makes abortion past viability illegal with the exception of the life or health of the woman being in jeopardy or there's a very serious problem with the fetus.

Such as what happened to my best friend's sister in law. The fetus didn't have a brain. That's not found until late in the pregnancy. An abortion is usually performed. Or what happened to another friend of mine. She had been trying to get pregnant for years. She finally did but found out late in the second trimester that the fetus had severe spina bifida. It wouldn't have lived long past birth. She had to travel to another state for the abortion because there is no provider in my state that performed abortions that late in pregnancy.

If you actually wanted to know about abortions that save lives all you have to do is a simple google search. There are many ways to learn about the subject if you wanted to know about it.

Removing a dead fetus is not an abortion nor anything anyone is trying to stop.

Ok I understand.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I come from a medical family. In fact primarily OB/GYN. Obviously you believe the word abortion only means to terminate a pregnancy when a person doesn't want to carry it to term.

There are medical/surgical abortions. There are spontaneous abortions, you lay people call them miscarriages. When this nation counts abortions they include spontaneous abortions in that number but don't separate it from medical abortions.

When you terminate a pregnancy before it's term whether it's consensual medical/surgical or whether it spontaneously happens by itself, that's an abortion. When a dead fetus is removed from the uterus by surgery or spontaneously, that's an abortion.

That's one of the reasons for late term abortion. Situations that put the life or health of the woman in jeopardy or there's a very serious problem with the fetus. It's never done that late in the pregnancy without a very good reason. It's illegal to do so without a very good reason and without documentation for that reason. In fact some states require more than one doctor to document and confirm the reason. No doctor in this nation is going to perform an illegal abortion that late in the pregnancy. Nor is a woman going to go to the end of a pregnancy only to walk into a clinic to demand an abortion. She did that in the first trimester.

Late term abortions involve people who have picked out names, they've bought cribs and had baby showers. Those who have to endure that are going through one of the worst things they will ever have to endure.

My mom spent a lot of her life before abortion became legal trying to save lives of women who either went to a butcher or tried to cause a miscarriage or took come concoction to miscarry or even too a knitting needle to her uterus. Every death took a piece of my mom from her. Every life she tried to save but couldn't took a part of my mom from her and from all of us. Late term abortion saves women's lives. In the case of ectopic pregnancy, those abortions save over 65 thousand lives each year.

I gave you several reasons for abortion. It's your choice to accept it or not.

Don't bother to reply to this, I won't read it. It's a waste of time to try to communicate with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

My daughter says "Punch him in the dick!"

 

[wamose]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

Written like a true misogynist.

What if the fetus was a beautiful, healthy little girl? There's a big difference between misogyny and murder. It seems you prefer murder.

 

[OnePercenter]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

Written like a true misogynist.

What if the fetus was a beautiful, healthy little girl? There's a big difference between misogyny and murder. It seems you prefer murder.

The issue is a woman having an abortion. If you want to instill your beliefs on how a woman runs her life, that is misogyny.

Murder is unlawful. Show me in law where abortion is murder.

 

[Coyote]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/18/late-term-abortion-experience-donald-trump
The bottom line is you have no respect for the life or health of the mother.

Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives
Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

"There are certain cases where ending the pregnancy is the only option, cases where it would be putting the mother's life at risk to continue the pregnancy," she says.

 

[Coyote]

If this was just about the woman's body, then she'd be the one who dies from the procedure.

No, when it is about the worman's [sic] body, then in defense of her body, someone else can be killed.
Just like you can kill someone who tries to commit rape or a kidnapping.
Freedom is something one can legally kill over.

So, how does killing an innocent child in cold blood protect freedom?

Usually, when we speak of justifiable homicide, we're talking about killing a violent criminal, or an enemy combatant.

How does forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy protecting freedom?

 

[Grumblenuts]

What if the fetus was a beautiful, healthy little girl?

What if that Kentucky Fried Chicken were a Kentucky Fried Egg.. Would you eat it? Isn't fallaciousness fun? It's just sooo deliciously stupid!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Abortion is between a woman, her Doctor, and her God. It's none of my business and certainly not yours. Period!

There's another person involved, who is profoundly affected by this “choice”, and that is an innocent child, who is given no say in what happens to him. It most certainly is that child's business, and the business of anyone who values the life of an innocent child.

 

[wamose]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

The bottom line is you have no respect for the life or health of the mother.

Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives
Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

"There are certain cases where ending the pregnancy is the only option, cases where it would be putting the mother's life at risk to continue the pregnancy," she says.

If the mother's life is at risk, then it's fair to discuss abortion, but that's rare. The overwhelming majority of abortions are a thing of convenience, And lets face it, when a fetus has a heartbeat, can feel pain, has fingers, toes and a sex, how the hell does killing that constitute anything less than murder?

 

[pknopp]

This is from another thread discussing abortion that I posted earlier which relates to this thread.... I'd love to hear what Christians or Jews think of the Bible passage at the end??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago, one of our members posted scripture, from the book of Numbers, regarding abortion.... that I was actually shocked to read.... I did not know this topic even existed in the Bible...

In this passage, if you believe the Bible is God written, or the Word of God, written down by Man....

God's Law, is advocating abortion in the case of marital infidelity, or perceived marital infidelity by the wife with another man....

If the husband suspects the wife had sexual intercourse with another man and is overcome with jealousy, then he was suppose to bring his wife, before the Priest, and the Priest gave her a concoction to drink called Bitter Water, that forced a Miscarriage on her.

THAT IS ABORTION

This blew my mind! I found myself contemplating why would God, give permission for this alleged pregnant woman.... being forced in to killing her baby to be, just because it could have been, another father, not even known for certain that the wife was cheating, or the baby was not the husband's child?

And why would God have the Priest, use an abortion concoction of Bitter Water, on this woman, and this baby to be.... if it were MURDER? Or killing a baby? Was it not considered a human life yet? was it not considered a baby yet?

What was the purpose of this forced miscarriage, abortion?

Was it because the husband should not be forced to financially take care of this child that is possibly not his, until adulthood? Was it because the child would be hated by the husband and not be given a healthy and stable childhood?

I am baffled!


Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorialc]">[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

If God himself came down and stated "I have no problem with abortion", I would still be pro-life.

I do not believe anyone in any circumstance should have the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense.

As for the passage, quess what happened in every instance? She was declared clean as no amount of water will cause an abortion. Not even "bitter water".

Oh, would no amount of water "take" your life, Dr. Buddinsky? Would you like for Dr. HolierThanThou to come in and test that theory by waterboarding you for the next hour or so? Oh, what's wrong? Suddenly having a Hippocratic oath meltdown?

Waterboarding doesn't kill you. Totally irrelevant to anything being discussed but that seems the way it goes now.

 

[pknopp]

This is from another thread discussing abortion that I posted earlier which relates to this thread.... I'd love to hear what Christians or Jews think of the Bible passage at the end??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago, one of our members posted scripture, from the book of Numbers, regarding abortion.... that I was actually shocked to read.... I did not know this topic even existed in the Bible...

In this passage, if you believe the Bible is God written, or the Word of God, written down by Man....

God's Law, is advocating abortion in the case of marital infidelity, or perceived marital infidelity by the wife with another man....

If the husband suspects the wife had sexual intercourse with another man and is overcome with jealousy, then he was suppose to bring his wife, before the Priest, and the Priest gave her a concoction to drink called Bitter Water, that forced a Miscarriage on her.

THAT IS ABORTION

This blew my mind! I found myself contemplating why would God, give permission for this alleged pregnant woman.... being forced in to killing her baby to be, just because it could have been, another father, not even known for certain that the wife was cheating, or the baby was not the husband's child?

And why would God have the Priest, use an abortion concoction of Bitter Water, on this woman, and this baby to be.... if it were MURDER? Or killing a baby? Was it not considered a human life yet? was it not considered a baby yet?

What was the purpose of this forced miscarriage, abortion?

Was it because the husband should not be forced to financially take care of this child that is possibly not his, until adulthood? Was it because the child would be hated by the husband and not be given a healthy and stable childhood?

I am baffled!


Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorialc]">[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

If God himself came down and stated "I have no problem with abortion", I would still be pro-life.

I do not believe anyone in any circumstance should have the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense.

As for the passage, quess what happened in every instance? She was declared clean as no amount of water will cause an abortion. Not even "bitter water".

I would still be pro-life.

Fairy tales before intellect? Or, like tRump, you like to grab women by the pussy?

What in the world does that have to do with anything I said?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How does forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy protecting freedom?

I don't claim that it does. But in this case, it protects the life of an innocent child, from those who would murder him in cold blood. Certainly, to anyone who is not a soulless, murderous sociopath, this is far more important than any notion of “freedom” that would be upheld by allowing that child to be murdered.

 

[Asclepias]

All this shit about the mothers health is BS. The bottom line about abortion is the mother has no respect for her child. She would rather kill the child than own the responsibility of creating a human life. Abortion is murder committed by lowlifes to cover for their irresponsibility and inability to run their own lives.

Written like a true misogynist.

What if the fetus was a beautiful, healthy little girl? There's a big difference between misogyny and murder. It seems you prefer murder.

Murder is a legal term dummy. Since you cant be convicted of abortion you fail.

 

[Ringtone]

An embryo/fetus is not a ‘baby.’

Abortion is not ‘murder.’

No babies are ‘killed.’

And increasing the size and authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty is not a ‘solution’ to the issue of abortion.

Everything the left spouts are lies.

An embryo/fetus is a baby.

Abortions on demand of perfectly stable pregnancies are murder.

Babies are killed.

And prohibiting murder advances individual liberty.

 

[Asclepias]

An embryo/fetus is not a ‘baby.’

Abortion is not ‘murder.’

No babies are ‘killed.’

And increasing the size and authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty is not a ‘solution’ to the issue of abortion.

Everything the left spouts are lies.

An embryo/fetus is a baby.

Abortions on demand of perfectly stable pregnancies are murder.

Babies are killed.

And prohibiting murder advances individual liberty.

Murder has nothing to do with abortion dummy.